Prader scale

[MelissP]

It's quite obvious to me that I will have to gain backround knowledge
for myself, due to doctors who are much too phobic to even fully describe
what they've seen.

Q: The Prader scale- I can find some one or two sentence thumbnail
descriptions of the stages 1-5. But most of the web search hits end up
pointing back to BLO, and what I really need to get is diagrams or
sketches, or even better MRI shots of average specimens of these
stages. If anyone here can locate this information (hopefully online)
It would be very helpful to me. Please please.

Thanks

[Betsy]

It's one of the great mysteries of humankind, Mellie.

I've looked for a graphic describing it or at least an explanation of it before and without success.

I think it's just more mumbo jumbo to validate unnecessary surgeries.

Ohhh..she's a Prader something ...we better cut now. Read the CAH boards and the kids are all Prader 5 (and thus requiring surgery in their minds!) yet it is extremely rare in real life from the little research I've been able to locate. Based upon what many parents on the cah.org board post, there has either been a dramatic increase in instances of the mysterious high prader scale kids over the past two years or there is a whole lot of lying going on. I don't think it is the former.

Girl was recently at a party and someone at the table has a niece with CAH. When asked aboout any surgeries done, the reply was that it was a "special situation". They always are.

Betsy

[Peter]

Betsy and MillisP, I am sure you have already read this, but I am posting it for those who do not know what the Prader Scale is. As I understand it, the Prader Scale was developed for CAH, so it does not necessarily apply to other intersex conditions. I found this basically similar wording three places on the web, including Wikipedia:

"Thus, depending on the severity of hyperandrogenism, a female infant can be mildly affected, obviously ambiguous, or so severely virilized as to appear to be a male. Andrea Prader devised the following Prader scale as a way of describing the degree of virilization.

An infant at stage 1 has a mildly large clitoris and slightly reduced vaginal opening size. This degree may go unnoticed or may be simply assumed to be within normal variation.
Stages 2 and 3 represent progressively more severe degrees of virlization. The genitalia are obviously abnormal to the eye, with a phallus intermediate in size and a small vaginal opening.
Stage 4 looks more male than female, with an empty scrotum and a phallus the size of a normal penis, but not quite free enough of the perineum to be pulled onto the abdomen toward the umbilicus (i.e., what is termed a chordee in a male). The single small urethral/vaginal opening at the base or on the shaft of the phallus would be considered a hypospadias in a male. X-rays taken after dye injection into this opening reveal the internal connection with the upper vagina and uterus. This common opening can predispose to urinary obstruction and infection.
Stage 5 denotes complete male virilization, with a normally formed penis with the urethral opening at or near the tip. The scrotum is normally formed but empty. The internal pelvic organs include normal ovaries and uterus, and the vagina connects internally with the urethra as in Stage 4. These infants are not visibly ambiguous are usually assumed to be ordinary boys with undescended testes. In most cases, the diagnosis of CAH is not suspected until signs of salt-wasting develop a week later."

Peter

[MelissP]

It's one of the great mysteries of humankind, Mellie.

I've looked for a graphic describing it or at least an explanation of it before and without success.

I think it's just more mumbo jumbo to validate unnecessary surgeries.

Ohhh..she's a Prader something ...we better cut now. Read the CAH boards and the kids are all Prader 5 (and thus requiring surgery in their minds!) yet it is extremely rare in real life from the little research I've been able to locate. Based upon what many parents on the cah.org board post, there has either been a dramatic increase in instances of the mysterious high prader scale kids over the past two years or there is a whole lot of lying going on. I don't think it is the former.

Girl was recently at a party and someone at the table has a niece with CAH. When asked aboout any surgeries done, the reply was that it was a "special situation". They always are.

Betsy

Oh, thanks Betsy. That was kind of what I was afraid you were going to
say :confused6

When I was looking at my MRI's yesterday, I had an advanced pre-med
physiology text in hand (used, by someone else) And it was apparent that
my supposed micro-phallus had no structural similarity to the normal
male organs in the diagrams. Then again, only the internal beginnings
near where the segment of urethra from the bladder merged into the
vaginal canal had much similarity to a clitoris. The rest, god knows what
it resembles, which is why i was asking. I can understand why 2/4 docs
think I was previously operated on. It doesn't look like anything that
could arise naturally.

I was able to spot a point where the vaginal canal came to within
3mm of the outside. Feeling around, that 's the location of a lump
that's usually happened to be sore these many years.

Ah, well. Maybe I'll get a break somehow. I agree with you, that did
sound like a disturbing trend.