Dr. John Money Is Dead

[Peter]

Dr John Money is dead.

Dr. John Money 1921-2006


Hopkins pioneer in gender identity


By Kelly Brewington


Sun reporter
Originally published July 9, 2006


...."He left Pittsburgh for Harvard University, where he earned a doctorate in
1952 before moving to Baltimore. Music and art competed with science for Dr.
Money's attention, said Ms. Hopkins, who lived next door to Dr. Money's
modest rowhouse in East Baltimore.


Dr. Money lived within walking distance of the Hopkins medical campus for
more than 40 years. The house boasted an eclectic collection of
anthropological art he had amassed from traveling around the world,
including a stint studying aboriginal communities.


"Anyone who visited his home would spend hours in there; it was like a
museum," said Ms. Hopkins. "He had old glass-fronted cabinets full of
artifacts, rocks and things."


Much of Dr. Money's collection now sits in a gallery in the town of Gore,
New Zealand, in a wing named after him.


A collection of Dr. Money's professional writings is housed at the library
of the Kinsey Institute for Research in Sex, Gender and Reproduction at
Indiana University. Liana Zhou, head of the library, said both Dr. Money and
Dr. Alfred Kinsey were trailblazers in sexual behavior research.


Although he lived alone most of his life - he was married but quickly
divorced in the 1950s and had no children - Dr. Money entertained friends
and kept in touch with a large extended family that includes eight nieces
and nephews and "hundreds of relatives in New Zealand," Ms. Hopkins said.


Until the end, it was clear his greatest love was research, she said. Dr.
Money chronicled his battle with Parkinson's, and the beginnings of
dementia, in his signature way.


"He used to write about the experience of dying from Parkinson's and
dementia and what it was like on the inside," Ms. Hopkins said. "He was
always collating, identifying and cataloging things his whole life. I was
amazed that there was still something inside him that wanted to teach
people."


Family and friends are planning a memorial service for September. Dr. Money
made arrangements to have his body donated to the Maryland Anatomy Board."

[Wyn]

shame it didn't happen 51 years ago.

[Priestess]

shame it didn't happen 51 years ago.

Perhaps if there was karma and divine wisdom, he might be somehow be reborn, to feel a life beset with an intersexed condition and experience the dark currents he began.

Thoughit seems to me that hubris has not been his alone, many researchers spin heartless theories. Is he more the monster than those who indulged in the biological determinism that gives rise to a "Dr house" reaction to AIS? That is Dr Money's opposite, yet equal in the tears it brings. The blame I can find with Dr Money is that he refused to learn from his mistakes, and held firmly to his theories despite evidence that the human soul is more complex than he'd imagined.

Now I may never know what he looked like in early months of 67 when I was in Baltimore, or in the spring of 70 when the psychologist came for me and visited my family. Though the chance of that one being him seems too small to think about, the idea was someone else's :thinking2

[Betsy]

It's hard to know whether to mourn the harm he did to thousands of people or to celebrate his death. Celebrating his death seems too much like celebrating his life.

[mohnblume]

No, I don't celebrate ... I wish him peace. It could have been, that he was genious and his idea could have worked out. His mistake was, not to realize, that he was wrong and he didn't have the courage to attest his failure. Errors are here to learn and bring problems into a solution.

What can we learn out of it?
- Each problem is also a chance, to do something better.
- It needs a lot of courage to accept that you might have been mistaken
- It needs even more courage to change things!

[Kailana]

My own thoughts on Dr. Money are as follows.

He was a scientist.
He made a Hypotheses on how to treat intersexed children. Based off of the few patients who felt themselves to be girls or who felt themselves to be boys, even though there genetics said otherwise.
Society chose to accept his theories as sound.
when other Dr.s challenged his theories, like Dr. Diamond, the rest of the medical community chose to ignore the Challenge.
Dr. money spent his life trying to prove that his standards of care for intersexed children were correct and that a boy could be a girl or a girl could be a boy, and be happy.
The medical community over all is still using his theories even though it has been proving in many cases that his Hypothesis was faulty. Fortunately there are some Dr.s now who arenot using his standards due the efforts of all the different I.S. support groups who have spent a great deal of effort in showing the world of how poorly we have been treated.

He , Dr. money that is, didnt understand what it takes for a person to be happy. "all everyone truly needs to be happy, is to be accepted for who they are", not for what someone else forces them to be".

Perception of self trumps all the stupid little tags and labels that society seems to enjoy placing on people.

Kailana S. Alaniz

[Priestess]

Even the common generalizations of genetics, like what x's and y's "mean" apparently fail to describe people. There used to be someone here named Sophia who wrote long posts on the complexities of DNA vs birth sex/gender.

I don't think that Dr Money's mistake was in his saying that people could be other than their genes, because what our genes are really saying may not be undestood properly. I think his mistake was in assuming a determinism of psychology & upbringing, by saying that "you are what we raised you to be".

The opposite, given to us by biological determinists, are that we /must/ be whatever they decide our body (usually genes) have fated us to be. This looks like an opposite, but the two have something in common- determinism. If their determinisms were really an accurate description of reality, then this would be self-evident and the world would just call it "truth".

But I think that what makes any theory determinism in the first place is the fact that determinist researchers will tell you what the evidence is, what the people are like, based on their theory, and disregard evidence that can't be explained. Whereas the scientific method, in it purest form, is to accept the evidence and find a theory that includes it.

Ps ... Years later now, while talking freely with my family, they said the doctors told them I would become what they raised me to be, if they did it properly. Which left them with guilt for thinking that they'd "failed".

[Meadow]

I have been thinking of Dr Money since this news of his passing. And while my tendency is to wish no one ill will, as that could adversely affect my karma, I do feel that it is sad that any person like himself gets so stuck in one direction that they simply do not see anything else.

This is called Tunnel Vision.

Another person who often falls into this category is a prosecuting attorney. Television often runs stories of these prosecutors who are probably "too close" to a criminal case and remain steadfast in their position, absolutely convinced of a persons guilt dispite NEW evidence that not only clears the alledged purpurtrator, but points to a different person entirely. Of course, the innocent person is held in prison anyway.

Many persons can be afflicted with tunnel vision, I see it all the time. And when this lack of vision causes others to have pain . . . well, it is indeed sad.

Let us all learn from Dr Money's mistakes and try to avoid this lack of vision in our own lives.

Meadow

[Kailana]

Hello all, an apology to everyone edxcept Dr. Money.

I just wanted to clarify that i think that a person can be raised successfully as a bory or girl even though there genetics/ hormones/ whatever differs. from the norm, but only if that individual believes themselves to be a boy or girl/respectively. Self perception of what each person is it what matters. Dr. Money made a gallant effort in trying to force genders on people without there consent. That is where his mistake lies. And hostory has shown this to be true, with many intersexed people like myself choosing to reassign and fix what doctors have done in the past. For those who are happy, as some are content with the choice that was made for them, i am happy for you that things worked out. Doctors have made the decision that reassignment and establishing a gender for many intersexed patients is socialably the right theing to do. As an infant hospitals take care of all the reassignment,/ corrective surgeries as it is percieved to be in the best interest of the child. For many the choices made, contradict our individual acceptance of who we are. As teens and adults, trying to challenge what was done in the past becomes almost impossible due to all the secrecy,shame, and guilt. Society says its o.k. to fix or alter us, as infants. most people accept that, but trying to live with a forced gender is not so easy to due. Constantly questioning what i am over and over again has led to so much depression, suicidal ideation, suicide attempts and hospitalizations. From my perspective, i feel as though Doctors are mocking me, i feel as though they are enjoying tormenting me over and over again. in the past i have felt as though most people just don't understand me, But, lately i have noticed that the more people who get to know me, and listen to me, seem to understand. or at least seem to feel enough compassion for what i have had to experience that they accept me, for me. Which apparently would be another way of saying that Dr. Money's theories about what is sociably neccessary for an intersexed child to be accepted were just a bit off. Or another way of saying not entirely true. From what i have come to comprehend; intersexed people who fix things as adults, tend to be a great deal happier with the outcome of surgeries, then intersexed people who had corrective surgeries as children. Many Doctors can't seem to grasp that. For the few that do i say god bless them.

P.S. Can ya'll please post your individual thoughts on this subject. I am only one person, While i know my views don't match up with every intersexed person, i would like to see just what everyone else is thinking.

Thanks all.

[Dianne]

I am with you Rudy! I have LONG been an avid believer in the "leave it alone" theory.

I was never fully diagnosed (doesn't matter anyway) and a bit of "snip 'n' stitch" was done as an infant - the doctors chose wrong - a 50/50 chance and they blew it but I was an out of wedlock baby and I guess boys were more in demand. The worst thing they did was tell my half-wit adopted mother "Raise it as a boy." - that damned near killed me because I always knew I wasn't. Would have been more successful barbequing snowballs!

I found medical help in 1974, shortly after reaching legal age, and had things put back together MY WAY and told my adopted Mom to stuff it. The 32 years since have been wonderful years but if the damned doctors (people like Money) had left well enough alone, I might have had much more enjoyable teen years,

[Wyn]

Not by a long shot. He was a self-appointed 'sexologist', in an emerging field of wannabes. His 'theories' were just as described earlier...fanciful wishes and ruminations described in glossy, 'scientific' terms that were never fully or objectively dissected. Surgical doctors, grasping for any way to 'fix' these children, eagerly latched upon these fantacies as a sound and practical means to justify their actions, and got to make some money to boot.

These so-called 'theories' also addressed these same doctor's homophobic fears, and where therefore the perfect 'solution' to this 'homosexual' challenge. How Dare these children have the ability (in some cases) to be able to enjoy sex either way!!! That's just NOT the way the Bible tells it, so Something Had to be done. (the animals were loaded and unloaded 2 by 2....NOT 3 by 3!)
I will add here; I remember one doc saying … in an Germanic accent..."You can be Von or De Odder...You CANNOT be Both!"

Due to the fact that many of these surgical actions were unique and one of a kind, they were, in fact, experiments. Experiments on Human Infants. If that isn't enough to make one shudder with horror and disbelief, one only need look at the photo's of these surgical attacks...and attacks are the perfect description of these doctor's actions...in every sense of the word.
I had one person to whom I had described my own assignment, portray it as - and I quote - "It's like what the Nazi's used to do!" Need I say any more?

I will add that I recently had to stop seeing my councelor...she had said, after about 4/5 months of counceling, that there was little more that she could do, and basicly, what had been transpiring in our discussions was of little help to me, so deeply engrained were my depression and fears. She had suggested that I should see a 'specialist' so as to obtain some anti-depressants. Not exactly my cup of 'tea'....I truly don't feel that suppressing these feelings to be in my best interest....or that of the IS community. I need a clear mind to think in as clear and succinct fashion as possible .... Contrary to the wild imaginings of John Money.

Anyway....I have made a point lately to write to both her, and a number of national and international publications - but, to my dismay - none have made it into print. Oh well....yah...I guess they can be a bit vitrolic, but, I have tried to maintain accuracy in all my statements, as best as possible.
One point....or perhaps many points... I made to my councelor were as follows;
"As noted in my recent letter to a (dear friend), is the fact that I had just received your letter to (my endocrinologist). As we have already discussed, the rather benign language you used to describe my mutilation and assignment is something the medical community MUST address, if these gross violations of an infant's bodily sovereignty are ever to properly addressed.

I do feel it is imperative that all medical personnel be taught that any medical invasion - of any infant’s body, in any fashion - is to be viewed as an attack on the child, and thus should be reviewed in light of all potential physical, psychological and emotional ramifications. It should be painfully obvious by now that ONLY when the life of the child is in danger that any attempt should be made to surgically intervene in any fashion. Only when medical personnel begin to use the descriptive and accurate terminology of these invasive actions, will these ‘social corrections’ being made in the case of intersexed children be seen as the intimately gross violations of basic human rights that they are.

Just as we in Western society abhor and decry girl’s and women’s genital mutilation in Sub-Saharan societies as cruel and barbaric – Female Genital Mutilation – so should we decry the genital mutilation of Infants in our own society…for, these too are mutilations in every sense of the word….and Infant Genital Mutilation should see the same level of disgust and horror that FGM creates, if not More. Indeed, the motivations behind these actions are cut from the same social cloth – the desire to dominate and control those who are the weakest and most vulnerable, and thus enforce conformity to primitive, arbitrary, and illogical concepts and beliefs which are not based on either science or biology."

As may be noted by some here, I have written extensively on this subject, perhaps too much. But these writings help me deal with the anger and distrust I feel when dealing with any medical personnel, along with bringing into clearer focus the arguments Against the 'solutions' proposed by John Money, now so long ago.

[Priestess]

Sung to the classic sound of the Blue Oyster Cult
http://www.joancrawfordbest.com/b.htm#blueoyster
I apologize for being disrespectful of the dead, but I couldn't resist :shock:

I think that some people favor nurture enough to be generally satisfied with their gender of upbringing ... as long as their personal qualities are close enough to what's considered acceptable that they can participate in life, and they aren't having physical problems.

(I might be in this catagory, except I've failed on both exceptions)

While other people do seem to have an instinctual sense of their sex/gender, and don't need physical problems or an unacceptable personality to know in their hearts that their gender of upbringing was wrong. This isn't saying that some simplistic pop science like "XX= happy woman, XY=happy man" is true, because the evidence says otherwise. But these people seem to follow the call of /some/ nature beyond anything society can touch.

And I think all is well is this regard, because it shows that there is still room for individuality and variety in the universe.

[fraulein_Maria]

[QUOTE=Wyn]Not by a long shot. He was a self-appointed 'sexologist', in an emerging field of wannabes. His 'theories' were just as described earlier...fanciful wishes and ruminations described in glossy, 'scientific' terms that were never fully or objectively dissected. Surgical doctors, grasping for any way to 'fix' these children, eagerly latched upon these fantacies as a sound and practical means to justify their actions, and got to make some money to boot.

>>>> they could learn alot from the attitude of brain surgeons.... in fact, i'll try talking a few into switching feilds......

"first, DO NO HARM"

that is there credo. there mantra.

the brain is so delicate, that surgery is ALWAYS the last resort. they "wait and see" until there is an immediate threat to a persons life.

i don't trust my hair to a person with a crew cut; someone who thinks that just one more snip (for the hundreth time) will make things "perfect".

i won't trust my body (or my child's) to a surgeon like that.

The IS community needs the equivolent of a Dr. Susan Love.....

who revolutionized breast surgery. Before her, radical mastectomies (removing the entire breast, the lymph nodes, and the muscle underneith)were the norm.

Post Susan, Lumpectomies are the norm, with a small sample of nodes removed to check for spread...... the nipple sewn back on, and breasts are now reconstructed (and paid for by ins.) because no doctor (NOW) would dare tell a woman that she must live disfigured.

[Sunshine1]

Good - One down

and as Dr. John Money .....just John Money walked through the pearly gates of heaven - A voice Boomed " John come here" and John Money walked over to his maker with the sinking realization that yes indeed God was a hermaphrodite.

I think God had more mercy on him than he did for people like us.

[Sunshine1]

needed to edit and put in Intersex or Pseudo- hermaphrodite for those that find the term better than hermaphrodite because hermaphrodite is just one of many conditions. But I can just see it in the after life with John going into the light and being greated by those not all that happy with what was done. " John" said God," Did that being ask you to do that" or "John, as part of the medical community the people I grated gifts to. .....it was your job to help society understand that everyone is different and to rejoice"

[Priestess]

Hi Aimee :redface: I hope you're doing better.

I wonder if he would deserve to get so far as standing before god. Should the dead be forgiven if they never felt any remorse in life? Shouldn't he have to feel what his unwillingly patients felt in their lives? Shouldn't we all have to feel :osigh:

[Sunshine1]

I might be doing ok now and then again maybe not. Was in the hospital for virus - I can't get just a cold. Got this pain on my right side in the middle of my ribs that hasn't gone away. It's not the Gall Bladder because that is gone and it's higher and in the middle. It might be something or might be nothing.



Yes, John Money ......hummm Heaven, Limbo or Hell?

Was this human nothing more than a puppet of society?

I believe his first papers mentioned how we were fine with everything and did he change for nority? his own curiosity? Sliced up for his theory. You think John Hopkins had a flag at half mast for that Son of a bitch? "Gee" said the doctors visiting the Money grave ....that person hummm seems to be dancing on our collegue's grave.

With a death of someone like that comes hope for a better broader future. "With every season turn, turn, turn...."

He was a sick fuck that hide the facts and other fuckers that mattered used his ideas for their own human experiments. Ask the patient? ....."hell no .... we be the experts."

Limbo ..my vote Limbo.