I'm sorry & I was wrong. Hate is not to strong of a word for how we feel about Drs.

[sparklingdreams]

Well my visit to my potential new Endo didn't go so well,

Actually it was pretty standard on my past experiences, which is to say she sucked. So I'm just gonna stick with seeing my GP, and from here on out stay with my GP. I'm just so tired of so many specialist and their over whelming ego's, and what seems like their need to redo and re-examine and re-do everything.

It took me more than three years to get my C.A.H. stuff all balanced out to where I finally felt well and everything was working. But the Endo I went to see yesterday literally wanted to start over from the begining. I explained what I'd went through test, Doctors, and etc. But since I lost all of my records when I ended uo homeless over one year ago none of that was worth anything. I litereally lost everything I owned except for two back packs of clothes and my cane. So she was incesant on starting over, even saying she would take me of two of my hormones, just because (and I quote) my "regimine is kinda a-typical". Yeah and... WTF.

I dunno how I feel about the DSD, Intersex stuff since yesterday. My father was so abusive and so psychotic I'd just convinced myself, or more like I needed to believe it was all him. Like the Doctors had no choice... it was what I needed to believe to survive I suppose, just to survive growing up. But the more I experience dealing with any who "specializes" in "helping" intersexed conditions the more I'm forced to accept the active role Doctors must have played.

So maybe DSD can lat some ground work that may help generations down the road.. but the more I face my past, my memories, the more I'm begining to relise how right the Intersex movement is, that complete changes, a complete over hall, a rebuild basically. Which is going to end uo affecting views on sex & gender perspectives medically and therefore socially.

So I can admit when I'm wrong. And I've been wrong... I'm still against being forced into some third 'it' sex. And I can't pretend I have any idea how to fix the system, but what's here now doesn't work, and small changes aren't going to fix it. I guess it's just flawed from the ground up.

Which is why I've prolly come off all very self rightous, and I've probably hurt more people than I ever would have wanted. But I'm still working through my past... I didn't survive it unscard, actually I have some very very deep emotionally issues and an well I don't want to say it all but I see my therapist for more than just personal motives... I'm just saying there's a reason I occasionally post we when referring to myself. And having one main attacker, the father, somehow made surviving easier. And I've held onto that in ignorance and fear.

So I'm just saying I'm scared, alone, and hurt. And because of that I've been wrong and prolly crule, without meaning anything.

So I was wrong... and mostly to anyone I hurt I'm sorry.

[Peter]

Hi Sparklingdreams,

I appreciate your message. When I first read what you posted in this thread, I thought to myself "Wow, this woman could work for Cheryl Chase and ISNA." Personally, I don't support the DSD terminology, but you made an interesting argument for it. I too, have often gone from the elation of one day of thinking that someone understands my situation, to being down in the dumps the next day, when I find out that I am wrong about that. I would not worry about your comments too much. I too do not like the idea of being called an "IT" just because I am intersex.

Peter

[fraulein_Maria]

[QUOTE=sparklingdreams]Well my visit to my potential new Endo didn't go so well,

Actually it was pretty standard on my past experiences, which is to say she sucked. So I'm just gonna stick with seeing my GP, and from here on out stay with my GP. I'm just so tired of so many specialist and their over whelming ego's, and what seems like their need to redo and re-examine and re-do everything.

>>> i been going through that for over 20 years. Never mind i show every symptom BUT a beard and manage to live (in a great deal of pain) they insist on checking EVERYTHING ELSE to pay for there new F@<hidden>#$% boat.
If it hadn't been for 3 little spiders, i'd still be untreated... and facing the prospect of menapause making everything that much worse. <<<

I dunno how I feel about the DSD, Intersex stuff since yesterday. My father was so abusive and so psychotic I'd just convinced myself, or more like I needed to believe it was all him. Like the Doctors had no choice... it was what I needed to believe to survive I suppose, just to survive growing up. But the more I experience dealing with any who "specializes" in "helping" intersexed conditions the more I'm forced to accept the active role Doctors must have played.

>>> you want proof? they don't do clitorectomies in Mexico where CAH is COMMON. For all the machismo my culture is famous for, they don't have the same problem with doctors behaving like shits like in the US. <<<

I'm still against being forced into some third 'it' sex.

>>> actually, even those of us comfortable with the idea of a third sex for ourselves realize that this may present more problems than it solves as a practical matter. And i have never thought of myself as an "it" which is neither gender. i have thought of myself as both which is far more empowering.<<<

So I'm just saying I'm scared, alone, and hurt. And because of that I've been wrong and prolly crule, without meaning anything.

>>> We know. And others have been far more cruel....others who ought to know better. Others who's buttons get pushed in all innocense by the pain of someone new. We are all wounded here... even the healers. Some of us have recovered greatly and forget we have scares too. <<<

[sparklingdreams]

... "Wow, this woman could work for Cheryl Chase and ISNA." ...

I still feel how I feel about DSD,

I feel it can do some real good. And personally I'm sticking with using that to describe my position, situation, condition, or whatever. I do feel how I first posted in this thread. Yesterday's meeting just made me realize how much work needs to be done. And I wish I could do more of it. I used to do quite a lot of activism from talking to Doctors, writing letters to the editor at any moment, to even meeting with parents.

I still hope to do more work toward fixing how the medical establishment treats those of us affected by DSDs', and find that title fits me better. But I also realized how some of my older, much older, comments may have hurt others here. Given my painful experience with that Endo. And while how she treated me hurt, it didn't change my beliefs on the subject of DSD/Intersex it did expand my perspective. And even more so, with the realization that I may have hurt others, as much as she hurt me.

There's no absolutes that can be applied to everyone so even though I can't take away what pain I may have triggered... I can appologize.

[sparklingdreams]

Personally, I don't support the DSD terminology, but you made an interesting argument for it. I too, have often gone from the elation of one day of thinking that someone understands my situation, to being down in the dumps the next day, when I find out that I am wrong about that.

Thank you for being open minded,

Enough to listen to my perspectives. And even more thank you. It's nice when we can get past politics, perspectives and opinions and see our how much we have in common. Some of the time it feels like we're all working so hard to fix the medical (and for some social) establishment and it's fundamental flaws that we loose sight of the fact that deep dow we're working toward the same goals. A world without the shame, fear, secercy, and mutilations we all suffer. It's nice when we can open our hearts to see how much we all have incommon instead of focussing on our differences. I feel like the worlds done enough of that to all of us all ready.

[Peter]

Hi Katie,

Thanks for your kind words. As Emi Koyama pointed out recently, although there are no intersex bars in large cities where intersex people can hang out, there are forums like Bodies Like Ours, which I hope can provide a safe and accepting place for intersex people to share experiences, and work for a better future.

Peter

[sparklingdreams]

... there are no intersex bars in large cities where intersex people can hang out ...

I hope there never are,

I personally wouldn't want to see DSD bars or clubs. We're already seen by most of society, the medical establishment, and even family as being separate from normal people. Clubs and bar focused on DSD based clientele would seem to not only validate that idea to most people, but it would encourage that idea and only stand to exclude us from normal society even further by sending out the message that we're embracing, and encouraging, their treatment of us as anything other than normal people.

I would love to see more local chapters of the ISNA, Intersex Initiative, or Disorders of Sex Development without Discriminatory Sadistic Disfiguration (D.S.D. - D.S.D.), or even local support and educational centers. These chapters would of course provide support, education, and their own gettogethers or even parties if they wanted.

Having DSD (formerly Intersex) bars and clubs would be like having a bar for people with Cancers or even Dystonias. Don't get me wrong I love going out, but I prefer to do that with people I have more things in common than a disease. If there were ever to be a bar for DSD suffers they might as well call it "Where the its are at!"

[Peter]

Hi Katie,

Sorry. After I posted my last message, I figured that people might interpret it the wrong way. I kind of liked Emi's point, but I guess that it is subtle, and might offend people. I guess that you have a real attachment to the disease model of intersex lives. I am not a "DSD suffers", as you said above, but rather an intersex person. Personally, I don't even drink that often.

Peter

[sparklingdreams]

After I posted my last message,
there are no intersex bars in large cities where intersex people can hang out
I figured that people might interpret it the wrong way. I kind of liked Emi's point, but I guess that it is subtle, and might offend people.

I understand what Emi was saying,

So I wasn't in the least bit offended by you mentioning it, I hope I didn't give you that impression. I just wanted to offer my opinion for others reading this post who may have taken it literal.


Disorders of Sex Development without Discriminatory Sadistic Disfiguration (D.S.D. - D.S.D.)

Before I respond to the rest of your (Peter's) reply I need to make a correction, and clarify, something I wrote above. When I wrote about a group called Disorders of Sex Development without Discriminatory Sadistic Disfiguration (D.S.D. - D.S.D.). I forgot to write that this is actually an organization I'm starting & its correct name is actually: Disorders of Sex Development without Discriminatory Surgical Disfiguration. And . I plan on using it to focus not only on increasing awareness & education among medical professions about the inhumanity of infant (`forced normalization`) but to also increase awareness & education to those in the medical establishment who provide treatment to adults who still need specialized treatment for which ever one of the D.S.D. they have.

I guess that you have a real attachment to the disease model of intersex lives.

Your sentence's last word is probably the main reason why I believe in the D.S.D. model. I don't feel my genital's appearance at birth should have resulted in my D.S.D. effecting my life so deeply, and traumatically. Than, I don't feel have an attachment[/B] to the disease model, I do feel it fit's the majority of us affected by these conditions better, and more affectively, than the [I]very broad social, political, gender, and [U](it seems least of all) medical goals that the current Intersex model has become.

I also just see don't feel my genital's appearance at birth as being anything more than a mutation that resulted from having C.A.H. (my D.S.D.), which is a very real genetic disease. Although for clarification I don't see D.S.D. as being a disease focused model, but more of a disorder, and disability, focused model. And in our current world any D.S.D. is a disability. For example, it has stopped me from living my life in the way I would desire, for no other reason than that I have a D.S.D., and that by definition means my C.A.H. has been a disability. And like me all, or at least most, everyone with any D.S.D. (once diagnosised) will have at least some limiting and negative affects on our lives, whether it's our genitals' being mutilated; fear & discrimination we face from Doctors, family, friends, and strangers; or serious health issues from D.S.D. effects, like with C.A.H. and / or ova-testes.

Of course, having a disability doesn't mean we're disabled, like being disabled isn't the same as being handicapped. So by saying having a D.S.D. means we're all less capable, or equal, than those without any of the D.S.D.. Just like I know I'm not less than anyone else just because I am handicapped, I have Generalized Dystonia and it's left me without muscle control in all of my body accept my left arm & hand and my waist. So while both disease don't effect me in the same way, I would have to be in a deep state of denial to say my C.A.H. hasn't been a disability in my life.

I am ......... an intersex person.

Intersex has become a type of personal identification as well as a social & political movement which has expanded beyond the need to stop forced `normalization` surgeries (genital mutilation). This goal can only be accomplished by educating medical professionals and the parents' of newborns who have any of the D.S.D.., which is what D.S.D. exclusive focuses on. I've never personally liked, or connected with, the term Intersex because it sounds like we're a `middle`, `third`, 'it', or `other` kind of sex, I've personally experienced this reaction (or interpretation) from medical professionals, parents' of newborns with a DSD, and most other people, just by hearing the word Intersex. When nothing could be further from the truth.

I am not a "DSD suffers'"

Your D.S.D. may not have brought much suffering to your life, though many of your previous topic postings actually seemed to impress on my that it has. I'm sorry if I've gotten the wrong impression about your life experiences' with which ever one of the many D.S.D. you have.

But as for me, and most other people with any of the D.S.D. we do suffer. And out of shame, fear, self-disgust, and / or just self preservation we are forced to suffer in silence. We spend most of our lives hiding from our pasts, and just wish to move past the trauma we've faced. Our trauma comes, not only, from the current medical establishments' `acceptable medical treatments` of people with any D.S.D.. But also from social stigma surrounding just having any of the D.S.D. and abuse because of it. I, for example, [B]suffered severe sexual, physically, and emotionally abuse at the hands of not only the Doctors'. To whom which I and many others' with one of the D.S.D.; didn't, and often never will, deserve equal treatment, respect, and treatment under the first line of the Hippocratic oath, And first do no harm. Beginning with my vagina's mutilation (`forced normalization`) from birth through my teens.

I was also abused by my father & brother violently sexually & physically. Emotionally I was tormented and reduced to an 'it' by my entire family, even my mother. Who told me she they called my 'it' to help me feel more comfortable being something else, something different than the siblings. Nothing sickens me more than the thought that she may have truly believed those words. I finally escaped the parents household when I was 16, and hoped to live without ever facing such suffering. And in life I have, but my past is not something I can seem to escape. And with the current medical establishments' complete lack of understand about D.S.D. I often find it extremely difficult to get the care I need. At time this care is denied out of ignorance about D.S.D. and proper medical treatment for anyone who suffers from any of the D.S.D.. My D.S.D. has resulted in these things because of ignorance and a lack of compassion for me, simply because I have a disease, that brought about a birth defect that they did not understand. So in all truth my C.A.H., the one of the D.S.D. that I have suffered because of. And this suffering has truly disabled me.

Personally, I don't even drink that often.
Ditto... see we have a lot in common after all :lol:.
Actually because of my Early-Onset Generalized Dystonia I physically can't drink anymore. Even a single sip of whine, or whatever, sends me into a Dystonic Storm (http://dystonia-dreams.org/D.R.E.A.M.S.%27%20documents/About%20My%20Dystonic%20Storms%27.html), which is like Generalized Dystonia's version of a seizure.

[turtledove]

"I've never personally liked, or connected with, the term Intersex because it sounds like we're a `middle`, `third`, 'it', or `other` kind of sex, I've personally experienced this reaction (or interpretation) from medical professionals, parents' of newborns with a DSD, and most other people, just by hearing the word Intersex. When nothing could be further from the truth."

Why do you say 'we' and 'intersex' while also saying that you don't connect with the term 'intersex'? It makes it sound like 'we' are what you decide we are? Personally I'd rather be a perfect "it" than a deformed girl or boy


"Emotionally I was tormented and reduced to an 'it' by my entire family, even my mother. Who told me she they called my 'it' to help me feel more comfortable being something else, something different than the siblings. Nothing sickens me more than the thought that she may have truly believed those words."

[Dianne]

That's very sad Turtle! :-( but I am afraid it probably happens too often. Thirty-some years ago I phoned my adopted Mom to tell her I was getting married and invite her to the wedding; her response was "Who's want to marry YOU?" If you couldn't have babies, she didn't understand why a person would want to have sex or why anyone would marry someone who couldn't make babies. She was (and is) a pathetic excuse for a human being.

[sparklingdreams]

(deleted for self protection)

Responding to your 'we' & 'it' statement is something I'm not emotionally able to handle right now. You are free to read into it whatever you want. And I'm sorry if it hurts or angers you in any way.

[Kailana]

Thank you for posting your opinions on the DSD stuff.Not that i agree with alot of it.it is nice to know what others are thinking. And apologies for the short response.im sort of studying my brains out. school seems abit harder then i remember. Time constraints tell me i need sleep ive been real busy trying to get a grasp on subjects i used to comprehend quite well. is it normal for an almost 36 year old to feel like im 90, when i t comes to memory?

[sparklingdreams]

Thank you for posting your opinions on the DSD stuff.Not that i agree with alot of it.it is nice to know what others are thinking.
...
is it normal for an almost 36 year old to feel like im 90, when i t comes to memory?

Thank you for being open to listening,

I don't expect to convert every one's, or even any one's, opinions or beliefs. Nor are my beliefs easily changed, but I too enjoy hearing others perspectives and stories on living with any of the D.S.D. (Intersex conditions).

As for memory, I have no idea, but I'm 25 and have joints of a 65 year old and my muscles feel like I'm like about 120, so I know what you mean. Great luck with your school work.