The great debate, IS vs DSD, with poll

[Priestess]

Well if no one wants to talk about anything else, how about a rousing debate over labels? Argue away! :interesti Pros? Cons?

I personally think DSD could be a very big tactical mistake, because every disorder implies an opposing situation of "healthy", and you're leaving it up to the medical establishment to decide what kind of healthy you are supposed to want to be. But then again, weren't they already doing that using the IS label?

[miriam]

DSD stands for Disorder of Sex Development. The way you write it is one of the reasons why I don't like to have a DSD.

Groeten, Miriam

[Priestess]

I agree Miriam, the term for DSD looks terrible if you write it out. The reason I wrote it with "sexual" is because I've seen many medical papers using it that way. But does it really sound better to say "disorder of sex development" ? I think that way still makes us all sound perverted.

How about the people who are pro-DSD ? What do you say in it's defense?

[short311fan]

i thought labels are what we found on the outside of soup cans and what they put on the ground beef i buy at the deli? :biggrin: if everyone wants labels, i have a really neat computer program.... :teeth_smi seriously, though..... as far as DSD goes, not a big fan of it, i have to agree with what Miriam and Priestess say, it just seems to have such a negative connotation, not that all labels don't, but that one especially makes my skin crawl.....

[Kailana]

its here again, Labels, that is pretty much all we are, at least to the medical community. Sometimes i think thats why there is so much trauma when people finally find out there different. Growing up as kids everyone wants to fit, be part of the popular crowd, you know, well liked and all. Labels, this is what makes life difficult. I honestly believe all the Labels should be thrown out, that goes for the male and female labels too. we are all just people, so im a little different, who cares. Well okay so maybe i Care that im different, why is it that people seem so desparate to make me fit a particular mold, i think im fairly Unique, and am doing my best to cheerish that uniqueness.

Just a thought.

[Andre]

And a good thought at that.

I am going to play devil's advocate for an instance.

Labels: A description for reference. In most cases, labels are mis-labeled for a lack of better reference. Say you walk in the park, you see that a child is obviously not the same as another, he/she has slit eyes and speaks like his/her mouth is full, slow in movement and definately not co-ordinated. What would your first thought be ? Downs Syndrome perhaps. A Label.

Would that be accurate ? Well, no because you have no idea what that child has if anything, could be a case of the mumps and is feeling rather crappy. Until more is known about something, we all need a handle on what it could be.

That's the danger of labels.

[Onnineko]

Sorry I just can't do it. Labels imply problems, disadvantages, and unemployment.

Still unless considerable changes occur, even this latest label will merely imply nothing, since its not being grabbed universally. I hope.. :gulp:

In the end, a single label will do more harm than good, so ongoing debate is a good thing. :)

Debate on. :)

[Priestess]

I voted for intersex, as the lesser of two evils. But I wonder how "salmacian" would sound? :roll:

[Kailana]

Had to comment on Imnikos thoughts, about labels, they are allready outthere.
I dont like them either, but where society is at has shown that a new one with a lot of what i consider as unspecific medical jargon, example Disorder of Sex Development implies to me that there is something drastically wrong with me. While i consider Intersex as implying that well this person "me" is a little of both, I would much rather have people ask me abouthow life was like growing up as an intersexed individual, then as a person with a Disorder of sex development. This implies in my thoughts that i am or have a serious disorder that must be corrected or im gonna die kinda thing
I hope that makes sense

[Onnineko]

Who cares? both are marginally positive
They both suck
I prefer another term (please specify)
---


I voted for "Who cares..", but on reflection I'd like my voted equally split in to thirds, 1/3rd each for all three. :)

[jenny]

as far as labels go, it would be hard for any of us to be here talking about our experiences in the first place without them. i found this site with google...so if we didn't have some label for reference, would i have searched for "i might be a little different than some people but i am still a human".....? yeah, labeling things can suck because of the many things that are implied to any given individual by a word, based on their experience with that word...but, it's a lot easier to tell a doctor that I have CAIS than to give a lengthy definition of specifics (but who am i kidding. the doctor usually looks at me and says "what is CAIS?" so i'm going to have to give a definition anyway:roll: ) but after all that rambling i didn't really answer the question. i would just as soon stick with intersex.

[Dana Gold]

I can see the rationale for having DSD as a preferential term for what was previously known as intersex, especially with intersex having been conceptualized by some people to mean something other than a specific medical condition involving primary and secondary anatomic sex characteristics. However, both have the root word sex in them, which may come across as something sexual in nature by some (non-IS/DSD). And while the term intersex may imply a disorder, DSD specifically states so. . As for intent with the goal to provide medical care based upon necessity (health care), rather than as social emergency (surgical/hormonal re-construction) DSD may or may not be more efficacious. Until then, I would reserve judgment on the medical treatment efficacy of the DSD term.

However, as descriptive terminology 1) with the above factors playing into how any one individual may want to be known as, regardless as to how they really are perceived; and 2) by connotation that both are still regarded as “abnormal” by the “normals”, I would say that both terms suck in that regard.

:pizza:

[short311fan]

i still think labels are for soup cans :mrgreen:

[Priestess]

I think Dana asked already, what is the definition of "disorder of sexual development"? It seems to cover the same territory as intersexed. And somehow I doubt that Isna would be willingly to accept it as a replacement term for intersexed if it excluded the intersexed.

After recently seeing a forum where transsexuals were flaming each other to death, I think they had a parallel situation. Someone was trying to introduce some bogusy term "HBS" to prove how *they* weren't like all those other trans people. Well maybe they weren't or maybe they were, I have no idea.

But it seems like the whole idea behind reinventing old terms has to do with perception. No one seems willing to share a category with those other people who'd be the same as you except you don't like them. No one wants someone else's stigma, and who cares if they're putting up with yours. So much easier to create new terms than to say that members of a category are still individuals.

Or, no one wants to deal with all the karma they set in motion in the last label they used? Everything negative about "intersexed" has to do with how intersexed advocates imperfectly dealt with the needs of the movement. Are they asking for a new name in order to pretend it's a clean slate? Fresh starts are a rare and precious thing.

[Dana Gold]

I think Dana asked already, what is the definition of "disorder of sexual development"

Actually, I used the term sex development, if I did use sexual, then I made a mistake. Sex = bio-physiological whereas sexual/sexuality = psychological. However, in some medical sites, I've noticed both being used.....and that presents a problem; for me, at least. It's back to the same ole thing; some people equating one's sex (genitalia) with how one must f**k or feel as a person inre gender....the origin of the mess we see today; in particular when some "normals" start ranting about homosexuality and "gender disorders"....a concept I find to be hypocritical and "backwards logic" when a person with a DSD/intersex condition doesn't conform to "their" standards of normalcy inre gender or sexuality. That's why I dislike the root word sex altogether, whether in intersex or DSD.....I'd rather have hypergonadotropic hypogonadism as a medical term applied to me than an outright "disorder" that denotes an abnormality (abomination?:whatchuta ) in sex or sexual matters...something which seems to frighten, disgust, and/or make some normals "uncomfortable". Shit:sarcastic , I'm uncomfortable with "them", and yes, they frighten and/or disgust :sick: me at times, too. Things go two ways in this idiot world; I regard some of "them" as "abnormally developed"....does that seem strange to some? What is with humankind that permits/causes them ("normals") to "f**k like flies", commit sexual atrocities (pedophilia, molestation, incest, rape), and engage in sado-masochistic sex acts, and yet deem a person born with a DSD/intersex condition (especially so if one is gay or trans) as grossly sexually abnormal?

:pizza: