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View Full Version : New here ... I think I am intersex but I'm not sure


freshwater pearl
03-19-07, 05:18 PM
I’ve been lurking for a few weeks and I registered recently. I think that I have an intersex condition but I’m not sure – I’m seeing an endocrinologist, but he has a really long waiting list for appointments.
Before I start, I’ll mention that I’m a 20 year old woman who has never been diagnosed with an intersex condition. I feel very uneasy because I had a really bad experience confiding in someone I trust, so I may obscure a few identifying details.
I went to see my doctor for hirsutism, which has really accelerated in the past year, and blood tests indicated that I had abnormally high levels of DHEAS and testosterone. I went to seen an endocrinologist and he tested me for (nonclassical?) CAH and adrenal/ovarian tumors. All of them came up negative.
It’s worth noting that besides the hirsutism I don’t have a very feminine body shape – I have a waist to hip ratio atypical for women (0.82) and I have a hard time finding bras with small enough cups and a wide enough band. I haven’t lost the feminine body contour because of body weight – I’m not extremely thin or overweight. I do have more muscle than most women although I don’t work out.
I was never much of a tomboy – as a kid I liked to play with barbies and dressed up as princesses and fairies for Halloween, as a teen wanted to be a fashion designer, and as a young adult, sold women’s clothes and beauty products for a living. In spite of this, all my life kids have teased or rejected me for being unfeminine; I’ve been disparaged for having a flat butt, small breasts and body hair or exhibiting “masculine” behavior. When I was a toddler and when I was preadolescent, I developed an extreme fear of “turning into a boy”, something I’d forgotten about until now.
Also, for reasons that I still don’t know, I’ve never been able to wear tampons. I sought help for this a few years ago and was told to “stop clenching”; I did and it was still excruciatingly painful (like sticking a tampon in your eye), so I gave up and continued to wear pads. After reading a little bit I think that I have a variation of MRKH syndrome – I have regular periods but maybe my external anatomy might be intersex. I really have no idea what normal external female genitalia looks like, other than a few drawings in physiology and health books. In the meantime, I’m still waiting on that doctor’s appointment!
I’m still pretty confused. Although I have high levels of androgens, a lot of body hair and an unfeminine body shape, I don’t have amenorrhea, male pattern baldness, acne, a deep voice or other symptoms of virilization. I could be wrong but I think that most women with MRKH syndrome have typical hormone levels (unless they have AIS which I do not have), so having androgen excess and MRKH syndrome seems like an odd coincidence. But does anyone else with MRKH syndrome or another intersex condition have a hard or impossible time wearing a tampon?

*Thanks for listening and I hope I haven't stepped on any toes in the process :)

Glenn
03-22-07, 02:01 PM
Hi! Welcome, and thanks for unlurking. I appear and disappear for a while, so don't wonder if I fall off the boards for a while.

MRKH sounds like a possibility, but I don't recall hirsuitism and the other body shape issues being associated with it. Could be a mixture of things going on. Sorry I don't have any more profound insights, but I wanted to at least welcome you. :smile:

freshwater pearl
03-23-07, 02:16 AM
Thanks for replying! It's been very soothing and enlightening to read everyone's stories here :)

Wyn
03-23-07, 07:09 PM
While it's a remote possiblity, perhaps you have an ovo-testis??? In most instances, any estrogen would most likely cause the testis portion to be 'inactive'...but, anything is possible.

It may also be that your genetics react well to any testosterone, and the amount you produce is causing these issues. One question that perhaps you should ask your doctor is for them to have a karotype done...just to make sure...

Simply some thoughts based on your description of your symptoms. (BTW...what makes you so sure that you don't have AIS?)

And, No...Intersex is not an easy thing to come to grips with for most. One needs to be vigilant and cognizant of others misconceptions and predjudices.

Regardless, I wish you all the best.

Alien
03-23-07, 10:09 PM
I developed an extreme fear of “turning into a boy” I can really identify with what you're saying. I too was teased as a child for my masculine appearance (still am). Being an 8-year-old girl with a mustache and abundant underarm hair was very traumatic, to say the least. I was recently tested for hormone levels (actually just the other day), and it was "discovered" that I have high levels of testosterone for a female. About the tampons... I've never worn tampons myself. I was advised by my mom to not even bother trying to insert one, because narrow vaginas run in the family.

Sorry I can't help shed more light on what your condition may be, as I don't even know what mine is yet. Hopefully you'll find the answers you're looking for eventually!

freshwater pearl
03-23-07, 10:14 PM
First of all, thanks so much for replying and for your kind words :)

About an ovotestis, I did have a CT scan done of the adrenal gland and ovaries (looking for possible adrenal and ovarian tumors), but there was nothing unusual. I'm not sure if an ovotestis would register as abnormal, or if I do have them, they just look like ovaries.

My mom had an amniocentesis when she was pregnant with me and got a 46XX, although it's possible that it was *her* 46XX DNA. Although I'm certainly no expert on this topic (although I am trying to learn!), I would tend not to think I have a chromosomal abnormality. I don't have any of the health problems associated with Turner's Syndrome (X0) or multiple exes.

About AIS, I have periods and I think that women with AIS do not.

I have wondered if I have mosaicism and that is a good idea to ask for a karyotype. I also wondered about ovotestes but I couldn't find very much information on them ...

And I can't say it enough times, but it's been a ray of sunlight to find a community of people who are so supportive :)

freshwater pearl
03-23-07, 10:29 PM
Alien:

Eek, I don't know if I've figured out how to reply correctly, but here goes!

I remember when I was about 9 years old that another girl snickered, "Nice mustache!" to me. I was pretty traumatized and I had to beg my mom to let me start bleaching my upper lip. Wax strips have worked out the best for me, although sometimes it grows back a bit unevenly.

People can be so judgmental and cruel about appearances sometimes, being especially intolerant when it relates to gender :(

Best of luck seeking treatment and I hope that you can find out more; thank you for your empathy and kindness :)

Alien
03-23-07, 11:01 PM
People can be so judgmental and cruel about appearances sometimes, being especially intolerant when it relates to gender :(

Indeed. If I had a dollar for each of the many hours I spent removing my body hair during the ages of nine to fourteen, I would be a millionaire. I don't remember being embarrassed or ashamed by the situation until my "friends" started teasing me, calling me a boy, a man, etc. The problem is that people refuse to get off their high thrones to acknowledge that not everyone is exactly like them. I just wish others could discover what the people on this forum all ready know: that the world is a diverse place, and there is NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT! Sorry, I'm ranting now...

Wyn
03-23-07, 11:19 PM
Hi 'pearl'... I had a CT scan done myself, several years ago, specifically to see what I had 'inside' - as my body had begun to go through female puberty about 2002. As the doctor said himself, there’s no way to discern from any external scan whether a gonad is an ovary or testis at the cellular level - a biopsy is necessary for this determination, although there are chemical tests to check the hormonal responsivness of the gonads.

However, it can be seen if there is an epydidimis (sp), if indeed there was sufficient testis-like cells present to cause this part to develop...however, if your testis and ovarian cells are interposed, (mixed together),or if you have limited testis-like cells, it would be impossible to detect the presence of this condition (ovo-testis), other than through biopsy.

At this point, I tend to think that it may simply be that your body is more 'attuned' to responding to 'T', thus resulting in the problems you mentioned. One other issue I've been made aware of is that excess estrogen will sometimes be converted to testosterone (and vise-versa). All this, along with a possible mild adrenal issue. Yes...it can get complicated. But, I'll also put this disclaimer in....I'm NO doctor...just a person who's had to educate myself due to my own issues.

As far as AIS.... yes, it is possible for XY karotype to develop Mullerian Structures (uterus, cervix, and superior vagina), and to have the ability, in very few cases, of becoming pregnant, as long as there is an ovary/ovo-testis present, and the lower vagina has developed.

This is a known condition - PMDS...Persistant Mulllerian Duct Syndrome. My own condition is a combination of this (PMDS), and mild AIS... basically, I was born with one of everything, although I was more female than male, but was subjected to a hysterectomy (and other mutilations) at 6 months old (in 1955, when I was born, and when the chromosomes were first discovered, it was the opinion that XX was Only female, and XY was Only male - I'm 46 XY - thus the assignment as 'male')

Moreover, it appears through recent testing (just last month) that my hormone levels have reversed to those of a youngish woman, (~37 'T'/~500 'E') due to my ovary (ovo-testis) FINALLY being able to produce sufficient estradiol to induce ovulation....this at the age of 51+!!!

I have to tell you....I don't look much like a 51 yo 'man' - at all ....and couldn't grow a 'true' mustach until I was about 47!!!

As I've stated before...anything is possible.

Dr_Owl
03-24-07, 03:50 AM
I have to tell you....I don't look much like a 51 yo 'man' - at all ....and couldn't grow a 'true' mustach until I was about 47!!!

Hello,
Isn't it great to not have to shave everyday like other men?
Isn't it nice to not look hairy like a gorrilla like some other men?

I dont mind at all. What a bonus!! Aren't We Lucky??

:sign16:

Happy New Year.....

Andrew

freshwater pearl
03-24-07, 05:30 PM
Hello Wyn-
Intersex didn't come up when I saw my endocrinologist, he asked whether I'd had issues with "ambiguous genitalia" but I said no, and only remembered the thing about the tampons several weeks later. I've never seen an ob-gyn and aside from drawings in anatomy textbooks, I'm not sure what's "normal" and not normal for the female reproductive system.
When I see him again, I am going to bring it up and put the possibility of intersex back on the table, so to speak ...
FWIW, my estradiol was ~80 (on the low end of normal), DHEAS ~400 (elevated) and T ~70 (elevated). Although I'm no expert on metabolic pathways, it doesn't seem like I have excess female hormones. I did wonder if I might have one ovary and one ovotestis, which would explain the high testosterone and low estradiol.
Thanks for the thoughtful response ... you sound like a pretty amazing person :)