Parents should better not trust their doctor?

[mohnblume]

I was shocked, when I saw this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiZiJoQZrXU

[peaceandparty]

shocked on what level!


i think the biggest point of that video is that the parents said they are going to tell everyone that he is a boy

and i think thats a big mistake


plus there are some features that are remarkably definetly female looks and male looks and she actualy looks more female in many ways

but as an intersex myself...i would definetely say that patrick is intersex
and so we need to add the name patrick to the list of unisex names

fucking doctors that are like that...can be found in nearly every hospital in any country
my mother had similar stories to tell
and maybe when my video editing gets better ...then we will do one of our own stories

[mohnblume]

Shocked in two ways, that adults just say, that Patrick is a boy*. What makes them so sure? The other shock, that these doctors don't listen. They have their model ... and that's it!

I had to be a boy too ... and after so many years, I know that I am not a boy, not a girl, but just what God has made of me: an intersexual person.

And not a DSD!!!!!

[Dianne]

I finally dragged my laptop into the office so I could watch this clip - I am sorry I did. It makes me so incredibly sad :( How ANYONE could think they have any right, in any form, to any degree, to alter someone else's body without that person's permission absolutely defies any concept of "civilized". I think that doctor should be castrated - THAT would be justice! And I'll offer to do it!

[Peter]

I viewed the video and was very saddened by it. I wish the best for Patrick and Patrick's parents in their ongoing legal battle over infant genital feminizing surgery performed on their child without parental consent. The apparent level of medical dishonesty involved is shocking, but not really that surprising.

Peter

[Sunshine1]

Was wondering what is the % that actually turns cancerous?

No, this doesn't surprise or shock me but brings me back to a not to long ago conversation that I had with my ped Endo that when I the person that own the body that who be me :smile: mentioned that gee it would of do wonders for my mental health if you hadn't made me service medical residents and also would of be tops if you would of allow me input on my own body as to when or if any surgery was to be done The ped endo a realy nice guy in the end actually even though he tried to do the it's my experience that You would of had infection ...I went Oh you based a clitorectomy on someone that might of happen ? with that he burts into tears and stated you hate me and No I didn't but would of be better to be left alone. After he knew that he couldn't BullShit me :smile: He issued a formal apology of everything they did at the best medical center in the Midwest. I could die tommorow as what they did ruined me but things there are changing a little.

Maybe, what happen in the video will change things for the better just a little.

I also had a talk with the surgeon that did the genital surgery and he really thought it was in my best interest ...how I was born was really a societal emergency but I would disagree. My genitals worked for me and my mind was wired for those genitals ....yep they endo/surgeon were fixing what the fucked up adrenal gland AKA did but the rush in way it was done ruined me.


I hope this kid in this video has it better and I hope that surgeon finds some understanding.
I don't know what condition this kid has but before putting a gender on anyone that is born with any condition .....they should ask what that person feels about it.

Any given day lines are so drawn by gender ...nobody calls me intersex but they do use the word miss, lady, woman and everything else that goes with the female gender.

I think that this surgeon should be made to pay for this kids testosterone pills the rest of his life and hand deliver it to the kid besides whatever settlement
they get.

Doctors do whatever they want to us..... and now the kids Parents know this too. Sliced up to fit into this world.


A game : Count how many times during a day gender is used.

[mohnblume]

... and the story might not be finished. What could happen to Patrick, when he will be in the puberty and breasts would be growing? I do hope for Patrick that they (Parents and Docs) will talk with him into the depth and will consider his personal wish.

I remember in my case were they all talking about me, but nobody with me. I was just a confused young person, not knowing what happens to me. After several visits with doctors and in hospitals, the breasts were cut off. I have to say, this still happened to Money's time.

And by the way, listen what David Reimer's mother says:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDb-rNvyzkA

[Dianne]

I remember in my case were they all talking about me, but nobody with me. I was just a confused young person, not knowing what happens to me.

Yes, exactly! I was the last one to find out what everybody else had known since my birth and I had to find out for myself. But my adopted mom would rather I had committed suicide than defied the mandate of the doctors (but she was sick in the head anyway).

[Kailana]

I was just wondering about patrick these days. i do recall watching this on the tv, many years ago now, 20009-2001, its from the "Is it a boy, or a girl" documentary. I'd imagine patrick to be 10-11 or so by now. My only real comment or question is "what does Patrick say he is is"?

As for the comments by the adoptive parents, I don't really put too much thought into what they percieve as boy type behavior. Kids are kids, particularly when they are that young, and in my experience the only girly girls i had known as a child, were the ones from really restricted families/parents that coddled there kids. For all the rest of us we pretty much behaved alike. Now then it wasnt tell early teens that i really think we socialised as being different. You know, like making the little clicky group, of the people you hang around. Well i really havent got much else to say. just that the utube clip is several yeears old now, at least the airing date, and who knows when it was actually filmed.

[mohnblume]

... so Kailana, what do you want to tell here ... I might be to stupid, but didn't get it. :|

[Dianne]

It seemed to me that she was saying there isn't behavioral differences between young girls and young boys. That wouldn't be my experience either as a child or as an adult watching children. There may be many with "neutral" behavior but half or more of the children I have known are expressing behavior with a definite leaning by age 5.

I think the general point is that no one has a clear indication of a child's gender until the child his/her self can express it. Again this ties back to our despicable John Money.

[Kailana]

First of all i had to rewatch the documentary, i do have it recorded.

As for what i am trying to say, is that many parents often try to put gender expression into a childs behavior. Kinda like i did everything. Played house/dolls with my sisters, and i playes army with my brother. You know, i think children do really what is around them really. And as for the parents behavior and reaction with a child, its really what they try to provide the child with that can have a influence on there behavior. And yes i know many people will say that this child is behaving as a boy, well what if that is the encouragement that he is recieving from the family. What if he gets shunned or teased when he does anything girly like in behavior. im only bringing up possibilities. I am really just curious how Patrick behaves now? as a young teen.

And the documentary is titled " Gender Unknown", i kinda got that confused, and aired 2001. Sorry about the title mistake.

I just think the parents are making more out of the way patrick behaves at that age. I mean for all i Know Patrick could be one of the most macho, manly boys in the world. I just don't know, but I am very curious, thats all.

Now as for the behavior of the surgeon that took the one testes, from Patrick i am sure that is gonna cause many problems for him. I hope his parents follow through with there words on being open and honest with him. I would love to see a update on how he is doing. I am not much in favor of Dr's choosing for people there gender. And i do believe that Patrick is XY/XO. I think someone asked that in an earlier post. Now then I am far from perfect on anything i say or do. But I do wish Dr's understood all of us, all of our histories kinda say the same thing. Leave us alone, let us decide, its our bodies, what is right for the individual should be up too the individual. Guess thats all i am really saying.

[Dianne]

But I do wish Dr's understood all of us, all of our histories kinda say the same thing. Leave us alone, let us decide, its our bodies, what is right for the individual should be up too the individual. Guess thats all i am really saying.

I think we all feel that way. If anyone disagrees, I would sure like to hear why.

It is also too bad that there are no reliable statistics on what percentage of IS babies are happy with their assignment.

Assigning gender based on measuring the phalis seems as logical as assigning gender based on hair color.

[mohnblume]

Once I was reading that 30% of the operated intersexuals make suicide. To be honest, I was at that point too ...

[Dianne]

... I was at that point too ...

As was I. It was not until I took charge of my own care that I was able to feel good about my life.

[Kailana]

ive read as well that amongst all categories of people, its the IS individual with the highest percentage of attempts, and successfull suicides, next comes transsexuals, then black males and on down the list. I do believe that the data is kinda being reported that black teenage males though are the highest candidates? for suicides. We are once again being forgotten/ not talked about. And yah i read roughly at around 30% but i wonder where this number comes from, as we all know most of us are not being followed. It makes me wonder if its just a wild guess?

[Onnineko]

....

Well I would not blame the Intersexed person that committed suicide because they couldn't live with the trauma of trying to be something they are not.

And if the statute of limitations didn't restrict my ability to sue Doctors for the trauma caused, I would certainly encourage that by all so afflicted Intersex people.

[Kailana]

And its Great to see you Onnineko.

I wouldn't blame an intersexed person either for attempting suicide, and feeling totally ashamed when they found out. I was that way as well, two suicide attempts, 5 hospitalizations and those all because of the care i got, the cruel remarks i received, the total lack of understanding i was getting from the Doctors locally. And yes i wasn't any better when they chose surgery again in 2002, at 31 years, 9 months of age without my consent. So i kinda understand just how bad some people can get treated. And just how devastating it can be trying to get more information and help understanding what everything means. Or just the daily trauma of constantly judging yourself as a man or a woman, as a true hermaphrodite, and having a very very hard time comming to some form of terms, at the time, suicide seemed the only real alternative. The constant lack of caring, the pushing of antidepressants and antipsychotic meds, only broke my will. That and the depression of well just feeling so very much alone, that no one cares, is hard enough on a person when they are stable, add in a little doubt, alot of bitterness and bad things happen. Also I really want to say that there are many people who dont understand suicide at all. They have no understanding that when a person is suicidal, all normal thought patterns about self preservation go right out the window. And I deffineately understand what that means.

Anyone, i mean everyone reading this should know that there is help, and its not always in the form of a antidepressant. Should anyone be going through, or having thoughts of suicide, please talk to someone a friend, a relative, a teacher, a coworker, anyone that you have had some bond of friendship, and yes even a psychiatrist, counsellor, social worker, or doctor can help. For anyone think that its the only solution, well, just to let you know, its not, there is help, you just need to try, push yourself a little, i mean your gonna have to push yourself alittle, and please dont feel ashamed. There are people specifically trained to help, even some not so well trained, that can help. While being IS can be quite devastating, finding out your IS can be devastating, there are plenty of us, and plenty of people who love us, and we are deffinately not the only people to have suicidal thoughts. Some time may pass before you, I, come to terms with what we are, nothing in life is easy, but it is deffinately worth trying/finding your happiness.

[apple]

....

Well I would not blame the Intersexed person that committed suicide because they couldn't live with the trauma of trying to be something they are not.




If the trauma really is, as you say, caused by "trying to be something they are not", and I think you are right about that, then instead of committing suicide just cease trying to be something you are not.

The media driven, ideal of man and woman, is purely fictional. It is a lie, and "normal" sex and gender is an unattainable goal. As long as you actually believe however, the media sex and gender lie, then of course you will be miserable. So stop doing that. It really is that simple.

If you instead merely continue to bemoan your fate, cursing the darkness of sex and gender expectations, you will forever chase your tails and be unhappy, and no amount of commiseration and other forms of so called "support" will change that.