Apple.....

[steve/lisa]

I asked you NOT to respond to anymore of my posts,If i wanted a normals response all i have to do is go to the town hall meeting i usauly get a full dose their.As for advising me on my problems what are your quafications trying to be a big shot or what.and as far as my transgender friends if they wish to come here and descuss there problems thats what this place is for anybody to do that here without being ATTACKED with your foul mouth and nasty words no swearing at other herm's.and NO i do not wish to be a friend with YOU,you are exactualy the type of person i have had to put up with most of my life,and as far as you view on nimble minded females you should wash your mind out with soap.and as your apoligy as i said in the last post your type always does that afterwards as a way and means to further your attacks on me and my type.As far as a national I.D. system on or by karotype thats fine with me cause I'M confermed as to what i am.and i'm also in at least one medical book,and other places too.So thanks but no thanks.I'll advise myself,and recieve advise from real herm's thank you very much...Lisa...

[apple]

I asked you NOT to respond to anymore of my posts,If i wanted a normals response all i have to do is go to the town hall meeting i usauly get a full dose their.As for advising me on my problems what are your quafications trying to be a big shot or what.and as far as my transgender friends if they wish to come here and descuss there problems thats what this place is for anybody to do that here without being ATTACKED with your foul mouth and nasty words no swearing at other herm's.and NO i do not wish to be a friend with YOU,you are exactualy the type of person i have had to put up with most of my life,and as far as you view on nimble minded females you should wash your mind out with soap.and as your apoligy as i said in the last post your type always does that afterwards as a way and means to further your attacks on me and my type.As far as a national I.D. system on or by karotype thats fine with me cause I'M confermed as to what i am.and i'm also in at least one medical book,and other places too.So thanks but no thanks.I'll advise myself,and recieve advise from real herm's thank you very much...Lisa...


I am very glad that your anger, is now turned outward, instead of gnawing away at you inside. I believe you are in better shape now than before.

Could you tell me though why you assume me to be a "normal" non intersexed person? Why also do you believe I am dirty minded and have a sexual motive?

I also really do not understand, how you could start a thread addressed to me, and yet you demand that I not respond to your posts anymore. If BLO is now a free speech board, open to any and all as you say, do you really think it fair or even reasonable to demand my silence? Would you please explain what speech is allowed here at BLO now days?

Why also do you keep saying you will not accept my apology? I have not apologized to you, and in fact I still make no apology. As for my friendly act before, of giving you what you need, instead of enabling your downward spiral. That is not the same as asking you to be my friend. Please understand. I am not saying I think you unworthy. I merely want to clarify that.

By all means stay angry as long as you need to. Hate me all you like. I have no problem with that. Just stay real and in the here and now. Tell us what is really bugging you. Be honest. I think you may be surprised, to discover that whoever you are, will be OK with most if not all here present. Honesty is the key.

[prince....ss?]

Steve/lisa

Real herm’s??? Please don’t think I’m lifting skirts here. You have just opened a few doors of questions for me. If you think I’m getting too personal just tell me so.

How were you confirmed? For what purpose were you listed in a medical book? And what other places make you legitimate.

As for myself I have medical records that go back to day one, I have all the surgical notes of every procedure and every follow-up appointment. I have actual pictures of before during and after my surgical reassignment. I also have the surgeons phone number and address and have spoken with him at length as to why they did what they did. My condition as a hermaphrodite back in 1962 was not new but the (corrective surgery) was still very new. With all this I did not make headlines or medical books.

So with this I think that by accusing Apple of not being legitimate you are lifting skirts and in turn treating apple with the very treatment that you would not like to have others treat you. Everyone has something important to say and to ask anyone not to respond to your posts is just rude. If you disagree with what’s being said that is fine but everyone has a right to their voice.

But that is just my opinion. I am real and confirmed if that makes my opinion any more valid.

[JOS]

It seems sad to me that we can't just respect each other.

it's not easy to be tolerant but if we can't even get along amongst ourselves what hope is there?

Short of providing a DNA sample and photographic evidence how can any of us PROVE what or who we are. But we are all human (I hope) and as such deserve a certain level of respect. At the end of the day what difference does it make anyway if the aim to 'support' one another is there.

This site proves that we are all different and as such use different coping mechanisms and need different types of support.... tough love is just not for everyone. But maybe giving people the benefit of the doubt would be wise... assume the aim is of support/insight rater than assume the worst first!

And we all have off days, especially with dodgy hormone levels and such like.

Anyway, I've said my bit for what it's worth.
Dismiss me as a boring sap if you will but I happen to think we'll achieve more if we stick together. In-fighting will only distract us and put off new people from adding to our collective knowledge and thoughts
Jos

[Kailana]

For prin...cess, please read my post on Purged medical records. While i know i am intersexed/ truehermaphrodite, all of my childhood records have been repeatedly withheld from me. Every attempt i have tried has only made me feel even less human. Finding out now, that in 1993, When i came home from the military, after talking with my mother, that My records were purged, permanently destroyed, at St. Marys hospital, just aggravates me even more.
All i keep being told is that hospitals arent required to keep records more then 7 years old, over and over again. I did get some from the Walla Walla Clinic even a few fromthe Sunnyside general hospital, but they arent really helpfull, as they have been extremely edited. Still theres odd gaps and a few typos, were she and her are used rather then he and him, but those are crossed out with a pen, and he and him written in above them. Words like P.E. is that of a boy, or Phenotype is that of a young man, which is also very confusing? Shouldnt it just say a young man, or male child. You see while everything is edited, or completely missing , what little records i do have, still shows some unusual comments. As for records, and being diagnosed again, What Im I suppose to say, when the only doctors to ever openly acknowledge i am intersexed, anatomically male and female are my military and german doctors from Berlin Germany?

I should add that, right now, as of Sep this year, i am getting acknowledged finally, by doctors for having many turner traits, i havent gotten any of them to put that in writing though. To actually put that in my medical records. That is what I need. My primary care nurse practioner, says she cant currect any of my records without a documented diagnosis of 45X/46XY turners mosaic, even though she knows my body exhibits many traits for turners. I did get my bone biopsy moved up too Nov 6th. I still want a lot more repeat testing done. And another Ultrasound, performed in Seattle. I do not trust any of the hospitals here in Walla Walla.

[prince....ss?]

Kailana,

Yes I did read your other posts. I am very aware that many of us are unable to get our medical records. I am lucky that I was able to track down mine. I’m sorry that you are having a difficult time with yours. What I was trying to say is that we don’t need proof of our condition to post here at BLO. I do know this place attracts some real nut jobs. Some need a medical reason such as intersex to explain shifts in gender. Many intersex person don’t have gender issues just body or unwanted surgery correction problems. But none the less we all have the right to voice our opinions, even the nut jobs as long as they follow the rules set by this forum for proper posting.

There is no way any of us could tell fore sure what actual conditions the others have if any so just have a little respect will go a long way.

Perhaps if you had your birth certificate you could back track and find your mother’s doctor, the one that delivered you. Doctors tend to remember babies like us. Just a thought to find some of the answers you are looking for.

Good luck

[steve/lisa]

Well I guess if i need to write things down i'll just do it on notepad as i did befor,kailana,glen,dianne,and prince....ss,thank you for your concern but i feel i'll just go back to the way it was befor for me,That way i can just be miserable by myself.prince you sound some what like me if you like since i can't deleate them read some of my very first posts that'll tell you what i ment by tested to death and how i got karotyped in the first place.thank you all for your kindness over the last few months,Dianne you i think said once to me i got to learn to trust,well i did try to but i guess i just can't do that it hurts to bad,I felt i was getting to a point of relaxing and letting go of the early yrs,Jos thank you for your reply a few days ago,what can anyone say on my mother and yes she did screw with my head,thats why i said that post to try in my way to let it go.
I never delt with this befor all i did was shove it in a box and try to just live life as best as i could,i have to in a short while go threw kemo & radiation treatment befor they can remove the tumors they want to shrink them down or try to i guess, this will be hard for me as the last time i had to do this it changed my life forever.Part of me does'nt want to, it would be so easy to just let it consume me.
so without anymore ado i will be gone and just work things out for myself...Lisa...

[Kailana]

Thats one of the few things i did get from the Sunnyside General hospital. But i also allready new that, i do have my birthcertificate at least the one thats dated/signed Nov 5 1970. My issue with that is that i was born Oct 10, 1970. I have plenty of family members who have told me i looked like a girl when i was born. Even my parents have admitted that much to me. But when it comes to my parents, they are currently denying they ever said that. Still my uncles and aunts, even my grandparents know about me, they have all told me some of the information, like going to the Spokane Childrens hospital, I only remember a little about my followup appointments, and thats when i was 5. I dont know exactly why or when those surgeries were done, or how much testing was done from my early childhood. You know, like I really want to know what i looked like before and after, i want to read about each surgery. Thats the information i want, i want to know exactly what date each was performed. I really want to understand why i was chosen to be assigned male, rather then female. Most people like me are reassigned as girls, So you see, i have good reasons to want to know why me? Why i have i consistently had such a hard time getting medical records, Why are all the hospitals involved with me, continuing to deny me access to my own health records.

Oh and just to let you all know, My father says, i was never treated as a kid at St. Mary's Hospital. He got upset when i showed him the hospitals record that state my Records were purged in 1993. I then told him, any records they would of had of me have been destroyed, thats The hospitals Records saying this, not me. He continued to deny me ever going there. Thats my father, It kinda sucks as he is just as stubborn as i am. I have a love hate relationship with him. While that may not be perfect its better then my relationship with my mother, her i just hate. i suspect most of the problems with me getting records locally is her doing. She is the person i questioned first when i got stateside in 93. So here i am 37 years old, dying for acceptance from my family, and knowing I will never get it. They are the ones who are ashamed of what i am. They are the ones who are afraid of what other people will think. And i am the one who has been suffering do to there treatment. There failure to be open and honest, combined with the care of past doctors is what has made my life so hard to cope with since being diagnosed as intersexed.

[prince....ss?]

Steve/lisa

I never suggested that you leave, I enjoyed reading your posts. It’s nice to know that you were starting to feel relaxed. It’s just that when you post others will respond some the way you like and some you won’t. That is just life so relax some more try to take the good with the bad.

Kailana,

Keep after the records. I find it difficult that they are gone for good. In this day of lawsuits, computers and insurance companies that the hospitals would just destroy evidence and health history. If an insurance company thought that you had a pr-existing condition I’ll bet they could get past the 7 year limit to avoid making payments.

I just got my military medical records that gave the information about the breast implants. A really nice guy the records did some digging and found the information I needed. So don’t give up hope yet. I know you will find it if you are persistant.

[apple]

When steve/lisa finds the where with all, to be honest fair and balanced, I will be happy to see her return. Until then I will not miss her one bit.

They have plenty of forums to go to prince....ss? . They get themselves banned from the ts forums, for symptomatic self hatred bs and flaming, and then they come here and try to take over.

The people this forum was created for, need to STAND UP FOR THEMSELVES AND EACH OTHER, and they need to take back their space.
We do no one a favor by tolerating such BS, and most especially not those dishing out the bullshit.

Those who hate themselves, so much they cannot accept who they are, are not helped by our false kindness and indulgence. We have a right to a place of our own, and we have a duty to defend it. I suggest gentle firm pressure, and if that doesn't work then ignore or ban them.

[JOS]

Apple has had a pop at loads of people

Alien
Wilfred
Luckymom
Miriam
Dianne
Mohnblume
Rycharde
and now Kailana
oh and I'm not allowed to go off track when we're talking about ponies!!

And I already said that I have a lot to learn from You and everyone here, Kailana and Apple alike. I'd miss the alternative views you'd bring. I'm only just beginning to see what a self centred fool I've been at times. And I wouldn't have if Apple didn't keep bringing us all back down to Earth sometimes.

Can't we just change the subject and move on TOGETHER?
controversial:grin:

[Kailana]

shes amazing she really is. I know i have issues off and on with self pity. The few times i actually get angry is really quite rare. I happen to really like critisicm. I know i am far from perfect. I often think that its the mix of personalities from all of the people here at BLO that provides me with all the support that my family, doctors havent.

Apple is amazing, or she is really mad, and uses her anger to keep her going. Thats not so bad of a thing, I bounce back and forth sad,happy, angry, depressed, and finally to just semi ok. Perhaps i should listen to Apple more often.

[Wyn]

you read All the various posts written by the myriad people who have developed the Courage, And taken the Chance of writing about their lives on this forum, I feel you will find that almost Every One of them, at some point, have lashed out, and have had extremely negative thoughts or words, both about themselves, and the others that have responded to them.

I do feel that this is inevitable, given the absolutely Horrendous treatment some of us have gotten - from both the medical establishment AND our own friends and families. To think that Anyone could maintain even a semblance of restraint and decorum against such odds would be, in my opinon, a true stretch.

I know for a FACT that, I too, have done exactly this many times over the last 3 years. By writing about our feelings and experiances, we have not only informed others of our own fears and failings, but, perhaps, have 'opened the door' to others who may not yet have gotten the courage to 'open up' and face their own situations and the realities of their individual experiances.

This alone is a strong incentive for maintaining the 'acceptance factor' among ourselves, although, to be certain, some will rub us the 'wrong way'. There is also the problem of re-opening old wounds whenever we read about others experiances and conditions - particularly that of other children being 'used and abused' by the medical establishment. There have been many times where I've simply 'shut down' when reading about the continued exploitation of both adults and children/infants, and I suspect that many others have had this same reaction. Thus, I have found myself frequenting this site less and less.

However, I cannot remain silent for too long, and it is for the benefit of others that I continue to post, and tell my story - as best I may - about what I have learned and experianced. When appropriate, I've tried to pass along the little knowledge I have so that others may Not have to experiance the frustration and lonliness of this existance that - at times - is so glaringly prevalent in this forum.

I suspect you arrived at this place with much trepidation and fear, along with the associated relief to find that you are Not Alone. I do wish you, and others, the continued strength to remain as active as best you may. There is Still Much Work to be done to change the thoughts and actions of the general populace about IS issues, and each of us has a part in bringing OUR reality into the minds and hearts of all those who deny we exist.

Truly, "United we stand - Divided, we fall"