It is getting more interesting...

[chuzzlewit63]

My daughter is now 3 1/2. She had "normalizing" genital surgery when she was 16 months old and in the custody of the state...2 months before we even knew about her and 4 months before she was ours. She is all about being a boy. Her pediatrician sees how/where this seems to be going as well. She is happy as she can be...chooses her own toys and clothes (more and more). Any thoughts, anyone?

[Kailana]

Let your child, chose his/her path. Do what you can to ensure his/her health and safety. But as you see it allready, your child has allready chosen. Follow his/her lead and don't force anything. He or she will tell you how he or she feels, just be there when he/she asks questions. You might want to go ahead and start talking about boys and girls, and not push a gender onto her, but try to learn what she as your current daughter has opinions about what she or he is. You could even just ask her out of the blue what your child is? and just make no fuss about your childs choice. Make your child feel accepted as himself/herself. Might even think of a few simple ways to explain why its ok if she is a boy. Fact it may be a whole lot easier, getting things out early while he/she's young, and allowing him/her to be what he/she is. <--- you know that really is hard trying to get all those gender nonspecific references in.

Best wishes, and hugs, its great knowing your accepting, every child should be so lucky, we all deserve to be treated lovingly.

[VictoriaSparda]

THE STATE DID WHAT!?!?!

That was not the state's place! Foster care had no right to mess with her gender, not unless it was for pure health reasons, they had no right to do that! The foster care system thinks they can do whatever they want without being questioned, but that's going too far! Way too far!

Sorry, I was in foster care when I was younger, I hate them with a passion and, to know they messed with the child's gender just adds fuel to the fire of hate I have towards the state!

Best you can do is let her choose who she wants to be, since the stupid state forced it onto her, the best that can be done is help her adjust, don't push either gender on her because, though her body is now forced to be female, her mind may not be. Make sure for birthdays and such that anyone who buys her gifts knows what she prefers so you don't have that gender role pushing family member who things "well she's a girl she has to play with girl things". Make sure all involved know her preference.

She lucky, most wouldn't be as understanding as you are being.

[Kailana]

Most states, go with doctors advice when it comes to adopties. So its not really the State or the adoption agencies that caused this. Its Doctors's and good old John Money's out dated theory's that Doctor's are still using. They all believe it is best to assign any child with sexual/gender anomolies as boys or girls. What I don't understand is why, the so called medical profession keeps pushing genital reconstruction/mutilation, when there are so many intersexed people like us out there who hate what has been done to us. We know all about the trauma and duress of unwanted reconstruction.

i'll repeat, just let your child be himself? As it does appear he is male identified, who knows maybe when hes older he will opt to have surgical reconstruction. Do your best to support his choices. After all, his body is his, he knows what is best for him. It might even be beenifitial to stop calling him your daughter, he may prefer all references to himself as he rather then her. I suppose you'll have to talk to him about that, and discuss amongst your family how to best proceed with how he is raised. Just make sure you include your son, in that conversation. Might be, that he all-ready needs to know what has been done, the information he doesn't know right now could be confusing him. But with the openness and acceptance your showing him, hes doing well? Your family may need to talk with him, and offer advice about what to tell friends too, you know, that playing doctor thing, little kids often due"show and tell", to stop unwanted curiosity. talk to your child, about safe boundaries , what is and isn't appropriate behavior when it comes to his body. Might even discuss boundaries with your doctor too. But I would keep in mind that when I mean doctor-patient boundaries, I am talking about what the doctors due to your child, during exam's. Too many of us know how traumatizing being poked and prodded by doctor's curiousity can do to us.
just some advice, don't know if any of it will help.

[Dianne]

THE STATE DID WHAT!?!?!

Sounds like my story. I was born in 1949 to an unwed mother at a charity hospital. I don't know for sure what all was done but was put up for adoption as a boy, an identity I could never come to terms with. My adopted parents were NOT open to my expression of who I was and that led to 20-odd years of WAR. It was not until I came of legal age that I could put things right and move on with my life and that created a rift with my parents that has not healed in 34 years.

Chuzz, we know you will do right by your daughter! Thanks for joining us here :beer:

[Andre]

Hello Dianne, nice to see you here.

[queerunity]

im confused, what did the doctors do to the genitals? did they put female or male parts? i think it is ridiculous to mess with a childs gender so young, your daughter should decide what she wants to do and later in life follow that path

[Kailana]

I believe his daughter had a clitoral reduction or something along those lines. Just my comments might of caused some confusion. To make thing simple, Most states follow doctors advice on genital reconstruction, or reassignment, for intersexed adoptees. They believe that it improves the likelyhood that a child will be adoptable if there are no abnormalities present. That is all.

[chuzzlewit63]

I hadn't checked the site for a while, so I'm just now seeing the responses.

I talked to my child's first endocrinologist last week. I had never really talked to this man and had only seen him once at the hearing for termination of parental rights for her biological mom. He actually trained at Hopkins (go figure). He told me that he had vigorously argued that she be raised a boy because of her extremely high testosterone level and normal sized penis. As an infant, her testosterone was about 4 times higher than a normal boy infant and higher than that of a grown man.

I couldn't quite get from him why a surgical decision had to be made at all. It is upsetting, in particular, that this was done with such differing opinions on the "team."

The surgery involved removal of the penis, one testicle and the testicular portion of her ovotestis.

I also was curious about the angle in which her urine flows. She urinates in an outward direction making toilet training interesting. He confirmed she had an unusually shaped urethra as well.

She is truly an amazing, beautiful little person and is the light of our lives. She'll lead the way. We are trying to be very careful not to push her in either direction. It would be so easy to simply go the "boy" route because that is where her interests lie. I throw in a tea party or a doll once in a while to see if there is an interest. That usually lasts about 3 minutes and then on to the trains/trucks/guns :)

She is in a very supportive school environment and we will see that she remains in one throughout her development. I think it would not be particularly difficult to have her transition to being a boy if that seems the thing to do. What I would hate for her is to have grief over the loss of her genitalia. I hope and pray she is happy enough with her body. I think a comfortable identification as a lesbian would be perfect. Time will tell.

At some point in her life I do want her to meet others who have had challenges such as hers.

I still refer to Sara as my "daughter" and a "she" because we are not at the point of truly knowing there should be a transition. The kids in her class are learning about identifying boys and girls. I have asked her, "Sara, are you a girl?" She says "No, Mommy!" I ask "Sara, are you a boy?' She says "No, Mommy, I'm a Sara!" Got my answer!

Thank you all so much for your interest, encouragement and advice!

[fraulein_Maria]

I have asked her, "Sara, are you a girl?" She says "No, Mommy!" I ask "Sara, are you a boy?' She says "No, Mommy, I'm a Sara!" Got my answer!

>>> i remember giving the same answer, to the same questions, once upon a time. :) too bad my parents ignored the answer. But i'm glad your paying attention. in spite of my folks, i grew up and became happy. healthy had to wait till i learned the truth. I'm glad to see she'll be healthy and happy BECAUSE of you. you will both be blessed. :)

[Kailana]

I have asked her, "Sara, are you a girl?" She says "No, Mommy!" I ask "Sara, are you a boy?' She says "No, Mommy, I'm a Sara!" Got my answer!


Umm, does that mean i am a panda? As I really wanted to be a panda bear when I was 4 1/2 years old. Or does that mean I am actually Transspecies?joke. Got to love Hannah Barbara(Andy Panda). Because when I was asked what my name was, or what I wanted to be it was I am Andy, and I wanna be a Panda.

[queerunity]

Maybe she is embracing more of a genderqueer identity?

[miriam]

Occam's razor: may be she doesn't know there is a difference between boys and girls. It may sound a bit silly but it took me quite some time to find out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_Razor

Groeten, Miriam

[chuzzlewit63]

Miriam,
You may be right about her not knowing the difference. It is easy to read too much into everything. This weekend, for example, we let her pick any balloon she wanted at the grocery store. From about 20 choices she picked the blue one that said "It's a boy!" We thought it was pretty funny her walking around with that all day. And NO, I don't think that had any meaning whatsoever! S/he's our amazing little love bug however this all turns out.
Pam

[fraulein_Maria]

Occam's razor: may be she doesn't know there is a difference between boys and girls. It may sound a bit silly but it took me quite some time to find out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_Razor

Groeten, Miriam

>>> its not silly. especially if your an only child (who are you gonna see nekkid? your parents? ewwwwwwe!!!) or live in a remote area. <<<