Howard Stern penis contest Wednesday 8/20/2008

[TLCTugger]

Hi,
I'm going to NY to be in Howard's prettiest penis contest, which is being staged to celebrate the marriage of George Takei to his partner Brad of 17 years, recently made legal in California.

I suspect when they see my restored foreskin there could be conversation about circumcision and infants' rights to intact bodies. I'll try to help them see IS in the same light if I get a chance.

What's the percentage of babies at risk of unwarranted surgical intervention and what percent are found to be mis-identified as to their preferred gender inclination?

Thanks,

[Peter]

Hi TLCTugger,

Thanks for going the extra mile for promoting intersex human rights. LOL.

Peter

[TLCTugger]

promoting intersex human rights.
I didn't quote get the IS thing in because Howard was eager to wrap the contest up by the time he got to me.

Here's the segment on three audio-only YouTube bootlegs. It starts about half-way through the first one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drECYuFVVGI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCiYSdCAlcI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RqcNjTSsho

By the time these get pulled from YouTube, I should have my own version edited and hosted at my site.

Here's a picture of me in the studio with my pants down. The blurring was down by Howard Stern's people for his all-ages website. I hope it is acceptable for this forum.

http://howardstern.com/rundown.hs?month=August&day=20&year=2008&x=63&y=10#
{edit: OK that website has it tricked so it goes to the show-dates rundown page. There's a block of 4 photo thumbnails together under Penis Contest in the 2nd column. I'm in the lower right picture, which you can click to enlarge}

[Kailana]

sorry TLC, another big issue about gender assignment and how doctor's treat the I.S. is that so far none of them have done follow up studies. I actually think there are many who are afraid of actually finding out just how many intersexed surgically reconstructed/assinged patients are unhappy with the outcomes, and with how many are chosing reassignment.

If it helps any you could probably go to most library's and find information in older medical textbooks that will make comments on some intersexed patients choosing to change there gender. I've found mention in several going back to the early 80's. And those were in normal medical texts descibing what hermaphroditism, and intersex is. Most also state recommendation's for genetic counseling and psychological support for intersexed patients, but what I have noticed, is that most of us don't get any of that medical support, our parents do if they are even that lucky.

I believe most medical professional's got stuck in the "Don't tell" syndrome and chose to forget all the other medical advise on treating intersexed patients.

[prince....ss?]

TLC

Don't take this as criticism it is not meant to be. I see that your primary purpose it to promote your cone. I don't have issue with that to each their own.

My concern is when non-intersex people speak for us. A bigger concern is when non intersex people speak or intend to speak for us on a show like Howard's. I can't imagine most intersex people standing on stage and exposing themselves. Many of us have issue showing our bodies to our partners and have deep issue with how our bodies look.

I don't expect you to understand what it's like to be one of us. To me your display on Howard's show is just another reminder of how un-normal I am and it rubs my condition in my face. I don't expect the world to change for the ones with bodies like ours. I would just prefer that when someone thinks about my condition they don't associate it with you standing on a stage with your pants down and a tassel on your penis.

I know we share a similar issue of unwanted infant surgery. But that is where the connection stops.

Good luck with the marketing of your product.

[miriam]

TLC

I know we share a similar issue of unwanted infant surgery. But that is where the connection stops.

Good luck with the marketing of your product.

I agree with you, completely!

Groeten, Miriam

[Trixie]

First off the photos on the Stern site remind me of those horrible medical book photos of intersexed individuals with their eyes blacked out to hide their identity. Secondly, I fail to see how any of this truly relates to an IS specific forum. Realistically this is all nothing but SPAM and as such should not be allowed on this site.

Emily

[JOS]

TLC seems like one of the good-guys to me.

But I have to agree with everything prince....ss said
let's just put it down to a bit of mis-placed enthusiasm shall we? ;-)

[miriam]

TLC seems like one of the good-guys to me.

But I have to agree with everything prince....ss said
let's just put it down to a bit of mis-placed enthusiasm shall we? ;-)

You're right - there is no reason to call out the posse comitatus.

BTW, Jos, I'll be in London Friday 5th and Saturday 6th September. I hope to meet up with you at the AISSG-UK meeting!

Groeten, Miriam

[TLCTugger]

I'll be in London Friday 5th and Saturday 6th September. I hope to meet up with you at the AISSG-UK meeting!
Wow, I'll be in England that week for the 10th International Symposium on Genital Integrity and Human Rights, WAY north of London. You'd think planners wouldn't make it impossible for someone to participate in both.

To those who think my appearance on Howard Stern was crass, I can just say it could have gone very differently. If they hadn't already exhausted their patience for genital displays earlier in the show, and if there hadn't been such an insufferable line of goofballs ahead of me in the contest, they might have asked some better more sympathetic questions, and I may have won the contest, and then who knows, appeared on the extended wrap-up show, during which I would have had a chance to address broader body-integrity rights issues. Still crass, but much more worth it.

I'm thankful to the community here for helping me understand a little more about IS issues. I'm sorry, but you don't get to choose whether or how I advocate for you. If you think I'm here to sell you a penis cone, I can only apologize for giving that impression.

Warm Regards,

[The Female Eunuch]

Prince....ss said:My concern is when non-intersex people speak for us. A bigger concern is when non intersex people speak or intend to speak for us on a show like Howard's. I can't imagine most intersex people standing on stage and exposing themselves. Many of us have issue showing our bodies to our partners and have deep issue with how our bodies look.

I feel the same way Prince....ss does. But it reminds me of something a surgeon who treated me when I was aged about 8-12 said. He told me about 9 year-old boy who he did some surgery on (implanting fake testicles, I think), who was so proud that he pulled his pants down when he got to school to show everyone what he had got.

I think the doctor secretly liked the idea of his work being shown off, and that he would have liked to be able to enter his patients in competitions like this (though I think I would have been one of the ones he would have elected not to enter in a contest).

I've actually had plenty of experience of doctors getting me to show my body to medical students, and it's only in the last few years that it occurred to me that I probably had the right to say 'no'. Of course they always asked me, but it never occurred to me that I had any more right to say no in that context than I had to say no when my mum asked me to do the dishes.

[miriam]

I'm sorry, but you don't get to choose whether or how I advocate for you.

THAT's a reason to call out the posse. You can't advocate for anyone of us here if your way of advocacy is harmful for us. There is a difference between advocacy and the use (or misuse) of the word intersex for achieving your own goals.

Actually, I think it's rather abusive you say we don't get to choose whether or how you advocate for us. It shows you really don't know what it means to be born intersexed. :(

Groeten, Miriam

[The Female Eunuch]

I'm sorry, but you don't get to choose whether or how I advocate for you.

You have no right to claim that you are advocating for us. If you claim to be advocating for us, then I have to conclude that you are merely hijacking our issues to back up your own campaign against male circumcision. And I do have a problem with that, because it is seriously belittling the seriousness of how many of us have been affected by our treatment, and with societal understanding of intersex issues as poor as it is, that makes you an enemy of intersex people.

[prince....ss?]

I don't understand why you feel the need to be so defensive. I don't try to represent any other condition than the one I have. If you wish to bring the attention to unwanted infant surgery please have at it. But you may want to reconsider blending in our issues with yours. Just stick to your message about circumcision and then you will have a clear message. If you add intersex issues you are only confusing and diluting your message.

But I will tell you that you should feel fortunate that you were born with a normal body. It is unfortunate that they clipped a little skin that later in life made you feel you weren't getting enough sexual sensation during intercourse. I would have traded bodies with you in a moment even with a clipped penis. When I was born they cut my entire penis off and made me a girl with no sexual sensation. Sorry not totally true... the sexual sensation I receive is just pure pain. My body is covered with scars related to my condition so taking my cloths off in public would be like the movie Mr Stitch. If I were to go on Howard's show for the Prettiest penis I would need to bring it in a jar. So how do you relate to my condition? How can you speak for me? You are correct I can't stop you, I just hope you can stop yourself.

[Trixie]

Prince...ss -- I'm sorry I know that this is totally off topic, but I just wanted to say that I literally laughed out loud when I read, "If I were to go on Howard's show for the Prettiest penis I would need to bring it in a jar." -- That really does sum it all up doesn't it.

Emily

[Peter]

Hi TLCTugger,

You wrote:

"I'm sorry, but you don't get to choose whether or how I advocate for you."

A big problem is that for every intersex person, there seems to be five or ten non-intersex people who want to tell us who we are, and define intersex advocacy themselves. I recommend that you visit Emi Koyama's Intersex Initiative website, and read her on-line article "Being Accountable To The Invisible Community".

Peter

[TLCTugger]

Hi,
You wrote:

"I'm sorry, but you don't get to choose whether or how I advocate for you."

Re-reading that, I must say it comes off as abrasive. But I only mean that every one of us can control only those things we in fact control, and I think we would be wise to focus on those.

Because of the novelty of what I do, I get to talk to a lot of media people; Time magazine, Howard Stern, Chicago Tribune, Houston Press (cover story), major radio stations, BBC documentary; this week it's Details magazine, in September my speech at the UK human rights symposium will be filmed by PBS.

When the format is open enough, I'm going to bring up that there's more than infant foreskin at stake, and that IS people have an absolute right to self-determination and protection from surgery (absent a LEGIT medical emergency). The more I learn and understand about IS, the better I'll be able to do this. I don't think having typical genitals disqualifies me from speaking out effectively.

Yes it's selfish; I'm healing myself by advocating for future infants, and of course there's no arguing that it promotes the products I sell. I have to do that; my wife and I each gave up decent MBA jobs and decided we would just live on what the devices bring in. There's nothing like making your living by doing something you're passionate about. And the more people I reach, the more people will be aware of the losses from infant genital surgery so they can shout it down, and circumcised men will also get help undoing the damage.

I shared my Howard Stern thing because you all have been so helpful and I thought you be interested. If I just wanted to bomb forums with appeals to buy my devices, there are certainly places with 1000s of new parents or 1000s of porn aficionados where I could do that more profitably.

Warm Regards,

[EMW]

Ron,

Please don't get me wrong, you seem like a very nice guy with very honest and good intentions. With that said however, maybe it's best if someone who is actually intersexed be an advocate for us or at least someone else who doesn't have a separate crusade of their own to advocate for.

I think that both messages will become confused. The public's attention span is pretty low, keep the message short and to the point without blurring them.

Emily

[sspl01]

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[JOS]

maybe it's best if someone who is actually intersexed be an advocate for us

ultimately we are all individuals and whatever one person says they can only ever, at best, get a concensus... some still won't agree 100%

As long as someone makes clear that they are not IS or that it is THEIR opinion/impression... surely we need all the ...ehem ... exposure.... we can get... we are a minority afterall?

TLCTugger does seem to have kindly thought to include us (a minority even in his area), offered to shout our corner, asked us what he should shout.... seems more that cool to me.... have any of us offered to shout his corner while we're out organising demos/posters/EXPOSURE.

I agree with the point made that some things might create an undesired impression but I'm sure TLCTugger has taken that on board with bells on!!

my tuppence.... 2p... for what its worth :mouth_clo

[EMW]

surely we need all the ...ehem ... exposure....

ROTFL!

:D

[prince....ss?]

I'll bring my jar!

[TLCTugger]

have any of us offered to shout his corner while we're out organising demos/posters/EXPOSURE.

Everyone is welcome to post in the Intersex section of my forum:
http://www.foreskin-restoration.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=21

And feel free to help me expand the Intersex-related links on my Resources page: http://www.TLCTugger.com/resources.htm

[prince....ss?]

Thats a nice offer TLC, thank you

[fraulein_Maria]

And feel free to help me expand the Intersex-related links on my Resources page: http://www.TLCTugger.com/resources.htm[/QUOTE]


>>> Janet! :) is that you on daily Kos? Kudos! <<<

[IS Mommy]

I so appreciate the way you respectfully and succinctly make opposing comments. And I usually find myself nodding in agreement.:grouphug0

[TLCTugger]

I now have the audio and video of the Howard Stern appearance on my web site. The HowardTV video does not blur the nudity.

http://TLCTugger.com/HowardSternAppearance.htm

[EMW]

Ron, in your own opinion, after viewing your segment on video, how would you say it went, how do you think they treated you, how do you think they viewed you?

Just interested to hear your perspective.

Emily

[TLCTugger]

how would you say it went, how do you think they treated you, how do you think they viewed you?

I really thought I might win the contest and get a chance to elaborate about intactness, so while they were horsing around with the idea of foreskin restoring, I was glad to take it in good humor.

Howard was really as sympathetic to involuntary circumcision as he has always been.

I don't think their reaction can be properly gauged during that episode. Howard has often shouted about how wrong it is to cut an infant's genitals. He often asks celebrity guests about their status, fishing for and often getting comments about how people wish they hadn't been cut. I think now that they for the first time have been "exposed" to a successful restoration, it will come up in conversation in the future. Somebody on the phone may call in and say something about not getting much enjoyment out of sex, and they'll be much more likely than before to bring up lack of foreskin as a possible culprit.

When the producer was on the phone with me while booking contestants, I told him how I had applied tension to my penis to regrow slack skin, and he was shocked: "Oh, you're a real sicko, then" and I'm sure he expected somebody sleazy looking and all tattooed and pierced and stuff. I believe I came off as fairly sane.

The fact that Fred, who is intact, said I didn't look natural, and that somebody should shoot themselves rather than go to the trouble of restoring, really surprised me. But I think just like all straight American guys, he must see very few other foreskins, so he doesn't have a sense for the natural variation. I see a lot of penises, and I looked quite natural.

I was surprised that George who is intact and very fair-minded (having recently finally won his battle for equal treatment in California) didn't make more of a fuss about how this was good news for cut guys.

Bottom line, it's a comedy show, driven by locker-room humor, that had totally worn out it's enthusiasm for exposed genitalia before the contest even started. People need to be hit with a message over and over before it starts to sink in. I'm really glad I got to hit Howard, his staff, and his huge audience with "Foreskin feels REALLY good."

Think how shocked and dazed a circumcised man must be when facing evidence that he is missing something valuable. To squirm and joke in the face of such an uncomfortable revelation is natural.

I've heard from two guys who affirmed that they had never thought much about foreskin until hearing the show, and will now pursue restoration. Even if they buy a device from me, that's not going to cover my airfare. But I've heard from many existing clients about how good it made them feel to see restoration presented in mainstream media. They say it made them more likely to come out to their friends about restoring. That's not just good for device vendors, it's good for the guys coming out. I think being closeted about anything is a lonely and depressing life.

[EMW]

Thanks Ron, I really appreciate hearing your perspective on the appearance and insight.

Emily