A bit of help, please.

[Seras for Two]

I suspect that this sort of question may come up often, but please bear with me for a bit since I am very confused and don't know where else to go.

Okay, the basic question is: how can I find out whether or not I'm intersexed if my external genitalia seem to be in order?

Now for an explanation: From about the time I hit puberty, or maybe even earlier, my gender identity has become quite blurred.

While I am a male myself, quite frequently (and I suspect that this has to do something with the fluctuation of hormones, but honestly I have no clue) I begin to strongly, but temporarily, identify myself as female.
It's hard to explain, but it's sort of like I'm going through my day like normal and then something in my brain just clicks (probably the estrogen) and my emotions get all jumbled up and I start behaving and feeling like a woman, as if it was the most natural thing for me to do.

And then sometime later it fades and I look back at it and think "What the hell was that?"

This may sound close to being an MtF transsexual, but I honestly have no desire to have a sex change or become a woman permanently.

And with that, I have two questions:
1) Is it possible that this is a result of an intersex condition? Because from what I observe in myself I suspect that I either produce too little testosterone (hence the lapse of identification as a male) or too much estrogen (hence the occasional identification with the female gender).
2) What should I do about it? So far this condition has brought me nothing but mental turmoil, since I can't in any way control or restrain it, and it is quite distressing to have my gender constantly flip backwards and forwards in this judgmental world.

Any advice? Would really appreciate anything you throw at me, except for rocks and chandeliers.

[JOS]

Just wanted to extend a hand of friendship and to express my sorrow at your consternation

I'm afraid I have never experienced feelings similar to yours and I am no health professional! But perhaps that may be a good place to begin?

Have you ever had, perhaps as a child, any out of the ordinary exploratory examinations or surgeries which when you think about the explanation for them, it doesn't quite add up?

... I'm not asking you to post those details, I simply mention these as that is what helped me to discover my intersex condition!

Perhaps another good idea... as I say I'm not medically trained.... would be to see a doctor who could perform blood tests to check if your hormonal levels are actually fluctuating outside the normal ranges?

You don't have to disclose more than you wish to but it may help to see someone in a position able to carry out some fairly simple tests such as these, at least in the first instance?

sorry I can't offer more suggestion than this but I wish you luck in finding the source to your unusual problems :sign16:

Jos

[Anis789]

Hi

Welcome

JOS is right on the surgery; it seems most if not all intersex ppl have surgery as children but are never told what it was for etc

Blood test would be able to indicate levels of adrogens female n male sex hormanones - your rght to think that you have both because we all have both in our bodies.

Many would save MtF Transexual - you mention that you feel like a female at times (daily) without any control, I'm an intersex male but feel very in touch with my female side n its men who sense this as they seem to look down on me thinking am gay a wussy a p***y

Seeking your DR seems like a good place to start, I'd like to echo JOS' point that you choose to share what you like n when

Take care mate

Anis

[fraulein_Maria]

[QUOTE=Seras for Two;16511]

And with that, I have two questions:
1) Is it possible that this is a result of an intersex condition?

>>> possible, but not likely. <<<

Because from what I observe in myself I suspect that I either produce too little testosterone (hence the lapse of identification as a male)

>>> :umno: a male who does not produce enough testosterone, usually feels depressed... not "feminine". <<<

or too much estrogen (hence the occasional identification with the female gender)

>>> :umno: a male who produces too much estrogen will first notice it in his chest (gynecomastica... a man develops breasts) not in his brain. <<<


2) What should I do about it?

>>> if your talking about your body... see a doctor. sounds stupid i know, but no advice (including my own) will be as good as finding a good physician who listens to your concerns and takes them seriously.

If your talking about how you feel emotionally, a good pyschiatrist.

This is not dismissive of you.

a pyschiatrist (not a pyschologist) is also an MD... and if he/she specializes in gender dysphoria, will (if they are any good at what they do) order the tests necessary to rule out an IS condition as the cause.

it is possible for an IS person to be gender dysphoric and not wish to "transition". <<<

So far this condition has brought me nothing but mental turmoil, since I can't in any way control or restrain it, and it is quite distressing to have my gender constantly flip backwards and forwards in this judgmental world.

>>> i hope you do not see me as part of that judgemental world... i'm simply stating the facts as i know them.... and what i know is that you MAY BE intersexed... but it is separate from any gender dysphoria you feel, because it is not our hormones in adult life that make us (mentally) men or women....

i'm a CAH gal. for over 30 years i produced more test. than any woman ought to have a right to....

it masculinized my body......

it made me angry all the time...

it made me aroused... *blush* all the time....

but i only thought of myself as male for the short period of time that i thought of those feelings (and my appearance) as exclusively male....

which is to say... not long at all.

It also helped to notice that most men are NOT angry all the time, not aroused all the time (though admittedly, society would like you to believe the latter is so).

I had a hormone problem and i knew it.... the problem was getting a doctor to believe me and run the necessary tests. <<<

Any advice?

>>> only what i've already suggested. Perhaps the others can be more specific, but i do think that what i've said covers the preliminaries. <<<

Would really appreciate anything you throw at me, except for rocks and chandeliers.

>>> nope. :)

no rocks. :) and definately no chandeliers (might break the chandelier ;)

[Kailana]

ahh just saw Fraulein_Maria's comments and wanted to add, along with the possibly being TS phobic, fearing a TS pattern, that would actually make you not TS. Which just means that you like many young men can have at times issues with your feelings. I really wouldn't worry much over the feelings right now. If you were Trans, you would allready know it.

Now if you happen to have a intersexed condition, then yes their could be a hormonal issue, that is making life a little difficult for you right now. But honestly, If intersexed, you would more then likely have other issues, a medical past, that would add more issues then just having issues with your feelings. Meaning, the doctors visits, odd comments would be made to you, or you'd would be asked really weird question's. Would have a history of lab work being done, brief explanation's told to you, but never the complete truth. Now it is also possibe that thier could of been surgeries, as an infant, and if that were the case, you would not have normal appearing male genitals. There would be scars, urinary issues, something popping up over and over again, that would add more concerns then just your feelings.

Oh and the other thing, not everyone is Male, Female, Intersexed, or Transsexual. There are men and women who are quite happy with thier gender as men or women who just like to play around, cross dress, or well you know let go of one or both of the masculine or feminine traits associated with a gender, ie, crossdresser, maybe with transvestite fetish's. Those do not make you gay, nor do they make you transsexual, nor do they make you intersexed. But it could just be, that little break from masculinity, gives your more feminine feelings/thoughts a way to escape in it its own way, that is what you like without truely understanding what it is you like or how you act, when those moments hit.

Last thought, It is not exactly easy being a man or a woman, all the time, taking a break might just be a way for your mind to find a tempory comfortable safety zone; a break from your everyday humdrum boring life as a guy.

peace and best wishes.

[EMW]

Any advice? Would really appreciate anything you throw at me, except for rocks and chandeliers.

:brick:

OK, well how about a brick?

I'm sorry but this feels to me like yet another person ashamed to admit that they are transsexual and so they're looking to see if some intersex condition can justify their feelings.

I know I'll get blasted (but I kind of like that anyway), but it always boggles my mind how someone can have absolutely no medical problems their whole life and then just because they start questioning their gender identity they must suddenly be intersexed.

The thing is that a majority of intersexed folks do not have gender identity questions. (DISCLAIMER: yes there are many on this site that do have gender identity issues, or of whom were "assigned" the incorrect birth sex, my opinion does not invalidate their feelings in anyway; but, I do not think that the demographics of this site accurately reflect the population as a whole.) So why is it that so many people think that is what being intersexed is all about?

Emily

PS. Seras for Two -- search the internet for a good psychiatrist or psychologist who is greatly experienced with transgendered issues, and I do truly hope that they can help you to understand your feelings.

[fraulein_Maria]

[QUOTE=EMW;16545]:brick:

OK, well how about a brick?

I'm sorry but this feels to me like yet another person ashamed to admit that they are transsexual and so they're looking to see if some intersex condition can justify their feelings.

>>> no hon. it seems like a kid going through a normal phase of adolescence.

It is NORMAL for them to feel uncomfortable at times in there own skin..... he will out grow it. it is not necessary to chase him out. he will leave when he realizes that he has little in common with people who have been medically raped...

[EMW]

>>> no hon. it seems like a kid going through a normal phase of adolescence.

I was assuming that he's much older than that and referring back to when he "hit puberty" rather than that he is still in it.

I re-read his post a couple of times, and honestly, I'm not sure what to think.

What's your feeling?

Emily

[fraulein_Maria]

[QUOTE=EMW;16549]I was assuming that he's much older than that and referring back to when he "hit puberty" rather than that he is still in it.

>>> lol. he hit puberty @<hidden> 13 and didn't leave it till 21.... but most boys don't know that ;) they think its over when there voice finishes squeaking, lol.

sorry to giggle young man, but i am old enough to be your mom (43) and i know a young man's posts from an older man....

and i know how hard it is to grow up male... i am thankful that i don't HAVE to even try to meet societal standards for maleness... i raised my youngest brother....and watched him doubt himself because he LIKED baby-sitting his nephews!

he is now a marine in iraq.... a husband and father... a good former i'm told by his wife.... and i always knew he'd be the latter. :)

make no mistake though... he was a good man before he joined the corp. he just needed some reassurance. :) his older brothers got it other ways... but i did not raise them, so iwasn't paying as close attention. <<<

[Anis789]

aha - I'm 21 hit puberty at age 11 n my voice is still high/squeaky!

Hey Maria your posts r always top - big respect 2 u hun - thanx 4 all ur support!

ppl can b intersex n transexual 2?

Dunno i was rasied male but feel female @<hidden> times dunno

all the best 2 u all x

[fraulein_Maria]

[QUOTE=Anis789;16752]aha - I'm 21 hit puberty at age 11 n my voice is still high/squeaky!

>>> odd that you would begin it so soon and not finish early. <<<

Hey Maria your posts r always top

>>> that's just because i'm opinionated... and i type fast. ;) <<<

- big respect 2 u hun - thanx 4 all ur support!

>>> no problem. :) <<<

ppl can b intersex n transexual 2?

>>> yes and no.

intersexed people are occassionally mis-assigned, but they are not considered by the IS community (or even the medical community) to be trans... they are simply fixing something that was broken, not chopping off a perfectly functioning organ and having there bodies re-made artificially. As zoe says on another thread, some IS conditions (5 alpha reductase being the most famous) cause sex reversal, and they need surgery to complete what nature has started later in life... but as she also says, its much more common for that to happen FtM, not MtF.

[roguekiwixxy]

It is NORMAL for them to feel uncomfortable at times in there own skin..... he will out grow it. it is not necessary to chase him out. he will leave when he realizes that he has little in common with people who have been medically raped...

Medically raped eh! That's pretty strong. Would that be similar to laying ina room completely naked after you'd had genital surgery and a bunch of peoppe you'd never met were ogling your newly installed balls and re-created scrotum, coming over to have a touch and see how long it takes for their victim to scream in agony?

Been there, done that!:confused2

[roguekiwixxy]

ppl can b intersex n transexual 2?

>>> yes and no.

intersexed people are occassionally mis-assigned, but they are not considered by the IS community (or even the medical community) to be trans... they are simply fixing something that was broken, not chopping off a perfectly functioning organ and having there bodies re-made artificially. As zoe says on another thread, some IS conditions (5 alpha reductase being the most famous) cause sex reversal, and they need surgery to complete what nature has started later in life... but as she also says, its much more common for that to happen FtM, not MtF.


Can't say I entirely agree with that Maria, I've had plenty of 'healthy' body bits removed, two balls, two tits, and a heap of flesh added or stretched to be more precise to have man size balls that fitted. Counting back I've hads 5 surgeries, all to reinforce my masculine characterists that I wanted that help me fit into the world I was raised to fit into. AND if I had to stay the way I was developing 'naturally' I'd be dead by now, I was so tired of all the jokes, and I was the joke.

[Anis789]

Yeah Grareme - the jokes - to f'ing right some bloke called me a sheman still so pissed of ny him! I'd agree with Maria on the medically raped thing, in my med notes it sed someting along the lines my parenst were happy to take me home after surgery but next day brought me back and they gave me dyaspam to stop the hysteria - bastarrds why put a kid through that - you are a child you may not know what ypur micropeniss is but am sure when they removed the liba part i noticed it the next day through feel alone - i mean feeling that something between my legs was chnaged.

Interesting the hormone thing Maria, so if I feel depressed that could be that my T has droppd then, my endo says i make same t as other men but am insenistive to it, my balls Gramee are right size i think, they use this thing like a neckles of differnet sized testes to measure, i was born with pea sized balls found a year later thats why i was female for first year but , fa,ily called me a boy, i had injections to increase phallius groth so they could do surgurt

anyone out there know what a fused libai n phallus may have been like?

phallus + pennis like thing n libia+ are folds there are two sets right Majora, manora, no offence but a friends called the liab pussy lips, oh yeah as for the Gynacamastia i am going to get tested hated showing my knockers off but nah they are quite a nice pair i must say no lonely nights for me i got me some boobs - just my onw lol

I think this lad has long gone the due seemed so confused, i last year wanted to find out the day of my intersex surgery so on that day i could give being a female a go you no imbrace my fem side

laterz k

[fraulein_Maria]

[QUOTE=roguekiwixxy;17138]Medically raped eh! That's pretty strong. Would that be similar to laying ina room completely naked after you'd had genital surgery and a bunch of peoppe you'd never met were ogling your newly installed balls and re-created scrotum, coming over to have a touch and see how long it takes for their victim to scream in agony?

>>> yes, it would. i certainly did not ask to have my clitorus chopped off (scuze me, reduced by 2/3)rds) as an infant. <<<

[Anis789]

Maria thats awful, they been pushing you to be male right, its not on and not fair that they did that to your clit - operating on infants is wrong too early before people can make a choice on what gender to be, not even gender but what parts they'd like to keep get rid of.

[fraulein_Maria]

[QUOTE=roguekiwixxy;17139]Can't say I entirely agree with that Maria, I've had plenty of 'healthy' body bits removed, two balls, two tits, and a heap of flesh added or stretched to be more precise to have man size balls that fitted. Counting back I've hads 5 surgeries, all to reinforce my masculine characterists that I wanted that help me fit into the world I was raised to fit into. AND if I had to stay the way I was developing 'naturally' I'd be dead by now, I was so tired of all the jokes, and I was the joke.

>>> But were those surgeries voluntary? mine certainly wasn't.

I was born a XX with a virilized body, that virilized still more later.

i had a perfectly functioning (if not looking) body part removed against my will.

It would have been nice if my family had not been i denial. It would have been nice to have been treated with cortisol like other CAH's Dxed at birth. Instead, because my variety enables me to produce some cortisol, i was medically neglected.

they could have prevented an early puberty. they could have prevented it from being the nightmare that never seemed to end once it began.

they could have told me something after my first baby died.

because of there silence, i suffered for over 30 years. CAH specialist Dr. Andrew Herzog was nearly in tears when i told him everything.

[roguekiwixxy]

This is a reponse to Anis & Maria,

When I read you posts tears fell like rain, as that the type of peron I am. I can understand how well meaning parents can go to well meaning doctors and have their children re-arranged to suit their ideas of what is or should be normal, but the reality is ALL GENITAL SURGERY, that is not done for strictly medical reasons, on INFANTS is nothing but BUTCHERY.

In that I include circumcission of infant males, which is just horrific butchery and you can even see a full circumcissionn on You Tube and it is accepted as 'normal' and it is not normal, it is not good, it is no necessary, it is not helpful, it is not anything but butchery.

[Anis789]

Graeme! New idea popped in my head! Cheerz!

I am circumsized but when? I had a micro penis (correction a phallus it says in med records) fused with a libia, In Islam (Fallen out with Allah these days life is in the crapper - anxiety n depression taking its tole on my body n mind, soul? lost that it feels) a child is circumised early so I wonder when I was my poor lillte Nudge butchered so young n small!

Maybe i should be greatful for having a penis n making sperm and that

I wish they had left me alone, you know have been natural i feel made male, yeah am XY but learnt it does matter about the Xs n the Ys they may in biologial terms make you male or female but theres more to it than that.

[fraulein_Maria]

Maria thats awful, they been pushing you to be male right, its not on and not fair that they did that to your clit - operating on infants is wrong too early before people can make a choice on what gender to be, not even gender but what parts they'd like to keep get rid of.

>>> Anis, clitorectomy (or reduction) is "feminizing" surgery. i'm quite sure i would have been happy with an over-sized clitorus. XX 3-beta CAH virilization is "mild" at birth and judging by the size i later attained, i was no more than a praeder 2. I might have been upset to be a praeder 5, but i would still have prefered to make my own decision. <<<

[fraulein_Maria]

[QUOTE=roguekiwixxy;17161]This is a reponse to Anis & Maria,

When I read you posts tears fell like rain, as that the type of peron I am.

>>>> i'm glad you get it. i can't tell you how many 'posers have told me how "lucky" i am to have been operated on against my will.

Please tell them to go away. why can't they leave us alone? why must they come here and claim to be something they are not? I would give anything to have the perfectly healthy, perfectly formed body they throw away. <<<

I can understand how well meaning parents can go to well meaning doctors and have their children re-arranged to suit their ideas of what is or should be normal, but the reality is ALL GENITAL SURGERY, that is not done for strictly medical reasons, on INFANTS is nothing but BUTCHERY.

>>> i can't. no, i can't. my daughter was born virilized also and when the doctors came to me with cream to "burn off the extra tissue" i screamed for them to not lay a finger on her. <<<

In that I include circumcission of infant males, which is just horrific butchery and you can even see a full circumcissionn on You Tube and it is accepted as 'normal' and it is not normal, it is not good, it is no necessary, it is not helpful, it is not anything but butchery.

>>> its with great sorrow that i say i once bought the nonsense about it. But i have learned better, and i'm greatful for the enlightenment. <<<

[Anis789]

Maria and Graeme

get this in my med records it said something like anis says why can't i pee standing up like other boys, my words or thiers? but thats hyperspadius not intersex

Yeah Maria people have said to me too your lucky your parents made the right choice making you male you wouldn't have made a nice woman, my tits are better than some other women!

Yeah you have a daughter had her 14th not long ago thanks I must be infertile not sterile, if i make sperm doesn't mean garanted not to have kids depends on who your with and there ova n stuff like that, is there away to find out if my sperm is fertile without inpregnating somebody?

Say if my doggey gene is the X, so my girls are going to carriers - tears in my eyes so many bitches dissed me cos of my manlyhood some jerk is going to hurt my babies someday! But wait gentics say me n my brothers have X-linkeed condition yet isn't verilzation due to the Y cromosme so maybe the defect i on the Y in my case too? hmmmmmmmmm?

[The Female Eunuch]

Hi Anis,

But wait gentics say me n my brothers have X-linkeed condition yet isn't verilzation due to the Y cromosme so maybe the defect i on the Y in my case too?


If you have PAIS, then it is a gene on the X chromosome.

I think the Y chromosome makes testicles, the testicles produce testosterone, and the other cells react to the testosterone by developing in a masculine way.

The AIS gene is on the X chromosome, and if you have that gene, then it stops your cells from reacting as much to the testosterone, which means your body doesn't become as masculine.


get this in my med records it said something like anis says why can't i pee standing up like other boys, my words or thiers? but thats hyperspadius not intersex

I am circumsized but when?

Anis, you may not have been circumcised. The hypospadias repair can make a penis look like it has been circumcised when it hasn't.

cheers,
Caroline

[Anis789]

Cheers Caroline, is there an actual gene for AIS because PAIS is a ? for me, i think it is PAIS that i have

Maybe i didn't get cicumsied i will ask my parents.....

Hope you don't mind me asking - whats a female Eunuch? Saw a documenatry about Eunuchs its when testicals are removed, was wonder is all, please don't feel as though you have to explain

thanks hun
Anis x

[Anis789]

Caroline sorry for my last post what a stupid question i asked, I do aplogise i just read the thread on guidelines n feel awful puting on he spot like that, thanks for your reply. Anis x

[EMW]

Anis, if you are PAIS with the various symptoms you've described there is absolutely no chance in hell that you are not sterile.

Go see a doctor.

Emily

PS. This site has gone to hell in a hand basket!

[The Female Eunuch]

EMW wrote:This site has gone to hell in a hand basket!

why do you say that, Emily?

[EMW]

EMW wrote:

why do you say that, Emily?

Oh please...if I have to explain then you wouldn't understand.

[The Female Eunuch]

Oh please...if I have to explain then you wouldn't understand.

well then I guess I'll continue not to undewrstand. That is, assuming you were seeing Anis's post as an example of it. If you were referring to other posts and not particularly his one, then I understand just fine.

[JOS]

...we won't have a hope of understanding if you don't get specific?

for me it's the fact that I sense some people are posting under more than one handle... (as one of our newer members described it).... but then, as I said in the thread I started... I know that I'm quite paranoid. :shock:

But what are you referring to?

is it better to keep suspicions to oneself... or to bring them out into the open where people can then defend themselves? :secret:

I'm really not sure of the answer!

[fraulein_Maria]

[QUOTE=The Female Eunuch;17238]EMW wrote:

why do you say that, Emily?

Caroline....

if at first only one: perfectly healthy, perfectly formed, individual claiming to have your condition come in here.....

yoiu might tolerate them no matter how deluded they were in the hopes that they might actually learn something.

you might sigh with resignation when no matter how many times you show them with there own words that they are lying.

you might even put up with being called a bigot and a liar yourself.

but then you see the one, become a trickle, and then a flood....

and for myself, i also have to watch the friends i've made leave in disgust...

because unlike me, they are NOT test. poisoned and just don't have the stomach for it.

and to be quite frank, thanks to prednisone....

I don't have much stomach for it either.

But i've watched too many lovely AIS people.... just leave.

stunk out of our own WC.

I've seen it happen at site after site....

wanna-be's abusing the hospitality of IS'ers, until we leave....

and then after they get bored congratulating themselves for trashing yet another site...

googling until they find us again, and repeat the process.

[melonade]

Cheers Caroline, is there an actual gene for AIS because PAIS is a ? for me, i think it is PAIS that i have

Maybe i didn't get cicumsied i will ask my parents.....

Hope you don't mind me asking - whats a female Eunuch? Saw a documenatry about Eunuchs its when testicals are removed, was wonder is all, please don't feel as though you have to explain

thanks hun
Anis x

Isn't "The Female Eunuch" a famous (or infamous) book on feminist philosophy and gender? (Germain Greer, 1970) I always thought that Caroline's screen name was a reference to that.

[The Female Eunuch]

Maria wrote:Caroline....

if at first only one: perfectly healthy, perfectly formed, individual claiming to have your condition come in here.....

I fully understand that.

But if you're implying that Anis is one of those people, I don't understand that at all. He seems sincere to me, and his concerns don't sound at all made up.

cheers,
caroline

[Anis789]

Thanks Caroline I am sincere thank you

Emily i'm sorry if i am comtrabuting to the hell or what ever you said.

My posts are spontanous n not bull****, does nobody remember what life is like at 21? Man am depressed and anxious as it is, this place is my all at the moment and i'll leave politely for the sake of thers,

so i ramble a little its fine when you got a name to your condition but when you haven't got a name you feel alone, so i'm a troll? I've got nothing better to do than sit n type utter lies - I guess i best start that novel now than wait til i got more life expirence - oh i bg my pardons - what life its all make believe!

Sorry Emily once again, i think you've real nice sense of humour, please do explain what you mean don't leave me in the dark. thabks.

Anis x

[Anis789]

I get it!

I'm being acused as the guy who started this thread off?

Well seems like he has long gone, no suprise there!

I am Anis my Handle is Anis789 and thats that! if anyone thinks otherwise then fine think what you must,

Its like that Miss-egnigma thought she was a troll i chat to her and she is PAIS! your losing the young so you know f*** the next gen of intersex cos we will not bother with such butchering!

[fraulein_Maria]

[QUOTE=The Female Eunuch;17245]Maria wrote:

I fully understand that.

But if you're implying that Anis is one of those people, I don't understand that at all. He seems sincere to me, and his concerns don't sound at all made up.

>>> about anis in particular, i don't know.

But soooo many come in claiming to be PAIS that are not... that it must be incredibly galling to someone who actually has it.

In comparison, relatively few come in claiming to have CAH....

and that's due to the fact that most CAH is virilizing, not feminizing.

i have to laugh when those fools who say they have CAH start talking about the rare forms that will feminize a male feotus.....

Because they really don't do there homework.

if they had bothered to check, the mechanisms of CAH that feminize male feotuses is very well understood.

Its not an over abundance of cortisol. that claim has to be the biggest joke of all.

Because cortisol and androgens are chemically similar, an over-abundance of cortisol will.....

MASCULINIZE, not feminize a person's body.

3 beta and 17 alpha CAH feminizes a male feteous by starving the testis of the precursers they need to make androgens.

so if you see someone tall, broad shouldered, and narrow hipped, claiming to have a feminizing form of CAH.....

laugh your ass off. because it just isn't so.

[melonade]

Thanks Caroline I am sincere thank you

Emily i'm sorry if i am comtrabuting to the hell or what ever you said.

My posts are spontanous n not bull****, does nobody remember what life is like at 21? Man am depressed and anxious as it is, this place is my all at the moment and i'll leave politely for the sake of thers,

so i ramble a little its fine when you got a name to your condition but when you haven't got a name you feel alone, so i'm a troll? I've got nothing better to do than sit n type utter lies - I guess i best start that novel now than wait til i got more life expirence - oh i bg my pardons - what life its all make believe!

Sorry Emily once again, i think you've real nice sense of humour, please do explain what you mean don't leave me in the dark. thabks.

Anis x

Anis, I'm sure that Emily may tell you her objection.

I hope it would not be unwelcome if I add a thought of my own. As soon as you came here, you've posted several "in search of intersexed dates" messages. You could have been in search of comrades, or looking for social contacts who might become new friends. If you had, I think you would have been better received than someone looking for dates.

Online, people who enter as you did are often seen as men lacking style. If you want to be regarded as the friend and peer of women who aren't here looking for dates, you might want to rethink your dialog. And if you aren't here mostly looking for dates, you might do better acceptance-wise by expressing your non- love-smitten thoughts instead.

[Anis789]

Anis, I'm sure that Emily may tell you her objection.

I hope it would not be unwelcome if I add a thought of my own. As soon as you came here, you've posted several "in search of intersexed dates" messages. You could have been in search of comrades, or looking for social contacts who might become new friends. If you had, I think you would have been better received than someone looking for dates.

Online, people who enter as you did are often seen as men lacking style. If you want to be regarded as the friend and peer of women who aren't here looking for dates, you might want to rethink your dialog. And if you aren't here mostly looking for dates, you might do better acceptance-wise by expressing your non- love-smitten thoughts instead.

Hi Melondae

1. What the **** my opeing thread was about my first real rejection I had the pissed taken out of for being a freak

2. you've posted several "in search of intersexed dates" messages, well am young dating n relationship comes into that - I don't care for dating, I am virgin and nevr been in a relqtioship - happy - am very proud to share that on a public forum, i was desperate to date i'd join some sex chat site which I DO NOT belong too!!!!!

3. NOT ALL my dialog is Love-smitten, what that post I worte that Miss Egnimga she is now my friend

4. I sturggle with women okay i push them away - i though i could get along with intersex women as mates but am finding that i must just be some pervet because thats whats come across to me.

5. I came in emtional, passionate, hurt, rejectd and lost, if I was some pervert I would have paid for sex of something like that why bother with onine forums if i was like that

Sorry am not havng ago at you Melonade i'm just trying to stand up for myself because whom evr shares in our opion or has a negative opion about me should speak out - c'mon we are all adults why not be direct - yeah am depressed and suffer with anixieties but will not be walked over by anyone i have much right to be here as anyone -

I'll crwal to my endo and beg him to run all the tests in the world to find out if i am PAIS or not, I understand that those who are in FACT PAIS are offended by me so I am intersex without any particular condtion i will leave with that,


:sad_smile

[prince....ss?]

You know what Anis789 ?

I have read everyone of your posts. With all honesty I will tell you that I like you. You are open honest and polite. So I cant tell for sure but they may not be talking about you poorly.

You are welcome here so don't let a few misunderstandings run you off.

I suggest that everyone re-read the community guidelines again.

I'm getting sick of all the accusations and skirt lifting going on.


This message is to a few of you...and you know who you are.

BLO is NOT your private club!!!

[Anis789]

Thanks Prince....ss? Thanks

Its 1.45am in thUk i got clleg tomorrow - yeah I run away from people alot - haven't manged to attend a single class at colleg the anixety is too great feel like i've been hit by a bus feels so weak thats the depression and then theres the anixety that increase andrnaline wich makes me feel angry, which makes me upset - have to go sleep soon, can't take it my body is nakcered, going back to colleg so as not run away i should just run, maybe having sex change will mean i can respect women better even though I don't dislike my penis yeah some lass said i am a freak and the one i liked wnet and told so guy who called me a sheman ugly bastered and told me stop crying wanker - its okay when your adult had your share of dates n sex but with all this negative socail interaction i'll nevr move on, went to small sepcail school, missed exams in hosiptal fro 4mths with swalen teste i was girfted entered for exams early, the following year still young the di not enter me the following year then a year behind wnet to big mainstream school rea female on birth certifacet and then began the socail crap, ran from young ppl 20004 til last septemebr when i joined this degree fucked up there when will it end only people who get me are my visually impaired friends, i got to go bed soon but hate being awake in the day and if thers no blo in the night i guess i have nothing in life now

sorrry if spelling is bad can;t be bother to spell check - who cares - it is me - i don't know where my spuls gone, its Eid on wednsady n family is all broken up and some celibaration!


Nite all xxxx

[Anis789]

I wanna delte my threads all apart from my first one,

one i'd like to delte

1. one on dating
2. One on friendship relationship sex etc
3. Young interex butchered souls or summat like that

i dunno how to delet

sorry i am just emtional right now

take care i got nothing against nobody its fine if anybody has owt against me - i chat shit thats what others say say i am fucked, very evil and unwell, well maybe i am!

My soul as gone a stray i feel so lost, i dunno who or what i am no more soy sory sory this is al just so weak of me

[melonade]

Hi Melondae

1. What the **** my opeing thread was about my first real rejection I had the pissed taken out of for being a freak

2. you've posted several "in search of intersexed dates" messages, well am young dating n relationship comes into that - I don't care for dating, I am virgin and nevr been in a relqtioship - happy - am very proud to share that on a public forum, i was desperate to date i'd join some sex chat site which I DO NOT belong too!!!!!

3. NOT ALL my dialog is Love-smitten, what that post I worte that Miss Egnimga she is now my friend

4. I sturggle with women okay i push them away - i though i could get along with intersex women as mates but am finding that i must just be some pervet because thats whats come across to me.

5. I came in emtional, passionate, hurt, rejectd and lost, if I was some pervert I would have paid for sex of something like that why bother with onine forums if i was like that

Sorry am not havng ago at you Melonade i'm just trying to stand up for myself because whom evr shares in our opion or has a negative opion about me should speak out - c'mon we are all adults why not be direct - yeah am depressed and suffer with anixieties but will not be walked over by anyone i have much right to be here as anyone -

I'll crwal to my endo and beg him to run all the tests in the world to find out if i am PAIS or not, I understand that those who are in FACT PAIS are offended by me so I am intersex without any particular condtion i will leave with that,


:sad_smile

It's after midnight, I guess I'll have to say something to calm down the conversation.

1) I didn't say your dating posts were the very first post you made. But they were soon after, not enough time between for anyone to have a feeling for your general personhood. No, it's not nice being called a freak, but not much less bad for those who quietly suffer through a negative self-image feeling like freaks.

2) There's more to life than dating. Friends are usually as good at solving general loneliness as love is. And no, I've never posted any iso messages anywhere.

3) Maybe not all your messages are, but the ones that are make a lasting impression.

4) If you want friends, be a friend.

5) Being emo isn't pretty. But what could anyone say or do over the internet anyway? It's words from afar. The best possible outcome is to say something that unlocks feelings of self-worth inside you. If you made some friends here, you might find someone who'd visit you at university, but that's no promise. If you come up with a diagnosis, perhaps the aissg-uk might come to interview you.

I wasn't attacking you, I was trying to offer some advice. It's not too late for you to stop defending the things which haven't worked and take up with an approach that might.

[Anis789]

[QUOTE=melonade;17260]It's after midnight, I guess I'll have to say something to calm down the conversation.

1) I didn't say your dating posts were the very first post you made. But they were soon after, not enough time between for anyone to have a feeling for your general personhood. No, it's not nice being called a freak, but not much less bad for those who quietly suffer through a negative self-image feeling like freaks.

2) There's more to life than dating. Friends are usually as good at solving general loneliness as love is. And no, I've never posted any iso messages anywhere.

3) Maybe not all your messages are, but the ones that are make a lasting impression.

4) If you want friends, be a friend.

5) Being emo isn't pretty. But what could anyone say or do over the internet anyway? It's words from afar. The best possible outcome is to say something that unlocks feelings of self-worth inside you. If you made some friends here, you might find someone who'd visit you at university, but that's no promise. If you come up with a diagnosis, perhaps the aissg-uk might come to interview you.

I wasn't attacking you, I was trying to offer some advice. It's not too late for you to stop defending the things which haven't worked and take up with an approach that might.

'And no, I've never posted any iso messages anywhere.' i duno what a iso is but menat my messahe not yours your megs r good ones

'but the ones that are make a lasting impression.'
which ones? how many? can they be delted? how can the be delted?

Aissg-uk tats AIS support group right? Yeah family n friends before anyoneelse, lovers parter they ocme and go I know that one, love n happiness come from within, yeah emo isn't pritty looking to support for my emtovive behaviour i will have to learn how to be a friend i guess,

thanks

[fraulein_Maria]

[QUOTE=Anis789;17259]

i chat shit thats what others say say i am fucked, very evil and unwell, well maybe i am!

>>> no one said your evil.

chill.

your not fucked either, though i do wish you had paid attention when i warned you that most of the women here were raised female.

now, because you were not TOTALLY obnoxious, you have not been banned.

i have personally gone to bat for you, so i'd appreciate it if you remember that.

stay. look around. READ.

there is a whole forum for AIS'ers that you don't seem to have bothered checking out much. It is most appropriate to post AIS questions there, and you'll get the most useful answers.

Miriam is one of the grand dams over there, and you can trust most anything she has to say on the subject.

I've been known to chime in on the subject, because since coming here, i've taken the time to educate myself..... with current medical texts, journals, and the best experts..... the several AIS'ers i have met.....

who'd kick my ass if i got it wrong ;)

and i'd deserve it. :)

[Anis789]

[QUOTE=Anis789;17259]

i chat shit thats what others say say i am fucked, very evil and unwell, well maybe i am!

>>> no one said your evil.

chill.

your not fucked either, though i do wish you had paid attention when i warned you that most of the women here were raised female.

now, because you were not TOTALLY obnoxious, you have not been banned.

i have personally gone to bat for you, so i'd appreciate it if you remember that.

stay. look around. READ.

there is a whole forum for AIS'ers that you don't seem to have bothered checking out much. It is most appropriate to post AIS questions there, and you'll get the most useful answers.

Miriam is one of the grand dams over there, and you can trust most anything she has to say on the subject.

I've been known to chime in on the subject, because since coming here, i've taken the time to educate myself..... with current medical texts, journals, and the best experts..... the several AIS'ers i have met.....

who'd kick my ass if i got it wrong ;)

and i'd deserve it. :)

other people say them things not anyone here

yeah i got to chill

obnoxious - i have been that I will cjeck up the meaning in dictionary, i was going to band, oh dea your right i'll check the AiISer's frum out I started a threda thier and Miriam did reply

'i have personally gone to bat for you, so i'd appreciate it if you remember that.' I got your back and I nver forget, who was the icther did somebody gor report me then, thanks for hit a home run, we don't have baseball in uk we have somthing call rounders n cricket

thanks, i shouldn't let my emotions get the best of me, well at least i know what some think of me as some pervert or thats what it feels like, what can i say i must be a sexest been called that to

I thanks a great deal Maira, w i was going to baned got to be careful from now on and just read and find answers

[prince....ss?]

That is more than sick what you have done to Anis789. Mean, nasty. I'll tell you I have had enough. I am sick of people coming here and getting chopped to bits by a group of people that I don't have a polite name for. Nasty things you are to make someone feel that way. You should be ashamed of yourself but I don't know if that's possible.

[Peter]

Hi Anis,

I recommend taking a deep breath and trying to relax. You have been brave in posting about your personal concerns and physical development online. It is not an easy thing to do. As some other members have mentioned, it might be best to see a doctor about your concerns. I don't think that you need a psychiatrist. You are definitly not alone, but just more honest than most men. I have no reason to believe that you are transsexual from your posts. I also tend to believe what you say, because it seems brave for you to post given your background as a Muslim in the UK.

Peter

[prince....ss?]

Please use you powers to stop this kind of attack on people. This is not the first time that this group of Queen B's decide if someone is a poser then they get shredded if they don't pass the medical experts. This nasty click has even accused me of being a poser and after seeing what happened today I am not happy about that. Does this small group of back room Queen B's run BLO...I hope not.

I don't know what you are doing behind the scans. I trust you are doing more than telling Anis789 to take a deep breath.

This place no longer resembles a support group. I am more than sad that a small group of people feel they have the right to chop people up. This really needs to stop!

Also could you please ask Betsy to contact me if she would be so kind.

Thanks

[Anis789]

why is everyone making a fuss over me, its me n my emotions, i rub people up the wrong way espically women intersex or not

Dunno who said it but it is like high school. i getting me a diagnosis or they can name the condition after me and I can be an expert in my field, any decent names for my conditon let me know its Anis Akhtar by the way - givin mi endo a call in the mornin seein him and the genetics in a joint clinc, New York medical Journal hear I come, I always said fame and fortune will not chnage me - will have a BLO Head quatres with fancy seats and lushes food - I'll put intersex on the map sex actual means male or female huh sooon chnage that OXFORD and Kainbrigde think they own the English Language huh

Intersexualim is topps, we should not fight but stand tal togther!l what is it 1 in 1 in 100o, 1 in 2, 000, 1 in 2, 500 i raed somewhere 1 in 20, 400 so lets not take diggs at each other - live n propers! mwah! xxx

[The Female Eunuch]

Anis,

I hope you don't mind me coming up with theories about you - I hope it will help.

(1) that you have difficulty knowing how to relate to women.

I was wondering, did you go to an all-boys school? Did you have a conservative muslim upbringing? It seems to me that men I've met from a number of muslim cultures don't have a good sense of how to relate to females. Maybe you should see a counsellor. I'm not suggesting you're crazy, just that there's probably a lot of useful stuff that you have missed out on learning, and could learn from a counsellor.


(2) do you have difficulty reading?

I know you have difficulty spelling, so I wonder if you have dyslexia. A friend of mine had trouble reading cos of dyslexia, so she got a computer that could read words from the screen to her. Maybe there's a learning support person where you're studying who you could ask about this? If you do have trouble reading, that might be stopping you from learning as much from BLO.

Hugs 2 U Anis,

Caroline

[prince....ss?]

Anis 789...don't take this personally. The fuss is not all about you. You just happen to be the latest victim of the Queen B's. Peter did have good advice. Breath deep,,, also get a good night's rest. It will be better tomorow.

I will try to think of some good names for your condition...It could be that you are one of a kind... Once you find the right partner...that will be a good thing

[roguekiwixxy]

Anis 789...don't take this personally. The fuss is not all about you. You just happen to be the latest victim of the Queen B's. Peter did have good advice. Breath deep,,, also get a good night's rest. It will be better tomorow.

I will try to think of some good names for your condition...It could be that you are one of a kind... Once you find the right partner...that will be a good thing


Hi Prince....ss?

I'vwe not taken a lot of notice of this thread, but now that I have a better understand of what people are referring to, can you lead me to Anis's post that describes him? I might have a clue or two, but I need more information and it's really hard to follow threads here...for me.

[prince....ss?]

The easiest way to find all his posts is to put your curser over his name at the top of his post and give it a left click with the mouse. Then a drop down menu will come down then hit the "find all posts by Anis789" then you will have a list of all of his posts. Then you can read for your self what he has said. You will need to surf through a number of them to find everything that was said.

This is the same way Melonade found all my posts from day one.

[Anis789]

Thanks for the hug Craoline

thanks for the therioes appricate it

1, yeah i struggle with women i have tones of evidence as to why that is but am really tried to share right now, i went to a school for the blind and partially sighted because i am visually impaired, i am a bad Muslim not relgious at all

2. No i been tested for that, it a combination of me thinking faster than i can write and my vision, i do try to proof read what i write even in word i got my assignments back tones of spelling mistakes i get support at colege somebody reads through my work for me usually to check for mistakes n things.

I will start typing post in word spell check them also that may tame my emtions because i will be reading over what i write and think about it

if you'd like me to dislouse my ideas about my struggle with women it may support others to understand i am not sexist pig but a guy who learnt of sex to young and faced much negative expirences with women due to from earlier on thinking that size of penis is evrything and creating self rejction and renforicing the idea that i am fucked and chat crap to evryone - guys put upon me this idea that i am a girl my mum treats me diiferent to the other lads, i am more open emtional n sensitive than guys - i miss female company, if i hang with guys i feel less of a man if i hnag with girls i feel i should have been one thats why in my life i should have both men and women around to hlep me stay in balance

you'd be suprised to know i have manya time been compliemnted on my intelligance and being articulate verbally i do well in clas for i guy who has emtional psychological issues

Nite all x

oh yeah its not my fault that my first ineractions with women were lay down with your pants down n let em lay upon you and out my lips against yours so ahrd, we were just kids so nobody is an abuser i just got to get over that, women are not sex objects but i was isolated as akid even these cartoon spoke of love n boys n girls being love i was influnced by that, i hat the idea of sex cos of the intersex and other hand i love sex but don't think i coulkd evr doi the nasty evr!

[Anis789]

I am off to bed i got got colleg to go to got to be there before 9 am n its now 4.50am i ned help epople say that i should get some

[Anis789]

thanks prince.....ss your a dear x

thanks evryone i got lost of my chest sory i got to get well in myself before i share any further nite nite xxx

[roguekiwixxy]

:sheep: >>> lol. he hit puberty @<hidden> 13 and didn't leave it till 21.... but most boys don't know that ;) they think its over when there voice finishes squeaking, lol.

Let's see now, I started puberty when I was 9, knocked off when I was 14, resumed when I was 18 and finished when I was 38.:sheep:

Work that one out.:clown:

[fraulein_Maria]

:sheep:

Let's see now, I started puberty when I was 9, knocked off when I was 14, resumed when I was 18 and finished when I was 38.:sheep:

Work that one out.:clown:

>>> now now. i was merely pointing out the average length of a "normal" male adolescence.... which most fella's don't understand... its not like they do for you what they do for us gals.....

unless there is a male equivolent of "the film".

yes, disney actually put out a rather good film (if a bit silly; but hey, its DISNEY for Godde's sake!) about the story of menstruation.

they usually began showing it to all the girls in 5th grade and up. so naturally, we prudish american's must shuffle the young men out of the room, lest they say unkind things like....

EWWWWWW!!!!! LOL. <<<<<

[roguekiwixxy]

>>> now now. i was merely pointing out the average length of a "normal" male adolescence.... which most fella's don't understand... its not like they do for you what they do for us gals.....unless there is a male equivolent of "the film". yes, disney actually put out a rather good film (if a bit silly; but hey, its DISNEY for Godde's sake!) about the story of menstruation. they usually began showing it to all the girls in 5th grade and up. so naturally, we prudish american's must shuffle the young men out of the room, lest they say unkind things like....

EWWWWWW!!!!! LOL. <<<<<

Maria I like you a lot, I see no smilies but I was giggling my through this one of yours.....and I can tell you it's not just the American's who did that sort of thing...I was at scerondary school, in England (when I went) in the early 70's and the same things happened, the boys had sex ed with a male teacher in a seperate room to the girls with a female teacher. :roll:

[fraulein_Maria]

[QUOTE=roguekiwixxy;17294]Maria I like you a lot

>>> ADD people the world over speak the same language. :)

its really quite refreshing to write to someone (and read the writings of someone) whom i don't have to explain anything to. Aside from JOS, your about the only other person here who got right off that half the time i'm trying to be funny.

i understand that i'm often not successful in that endevour. But i'm quite determined. :) <<<

I see no smilies but I was giggling my through this one of yours.....

>>> good :) my job is done. :) <<<

and I can tell you it's not just the American's who did that sort of thing...

>>> somehow, i did not think we had strayed too far from the mother culture.....

and now we've got another crazy king george! oh my poor country! Quick! someone help me pour this tea into Boston harbor! <<<

[The Female Eunuch]

Emily wrote:This site has gone to hell in a handbasket

From a non-BLO sourceOh, according to the Shorter Oxford Dictionary, the phrase "going to hell in a handbasket" dates back to the mid 15th century. The famed (and near-mythological) German apothecary, Helena Haendbaschett, was sought out by the chronically ill for her extreme but supposedly miraculous remedies. Few of the infirm ever returned, and "I'm going to Helena Haendbaschett" became recognised as the catchphrase of the damned. With some minor corruption the phrase evolved into its present-day form. This is, of course, completely untrue

[The Female Eunuch]

Melonade wrote:Isn't "The Female Eunuch" a famous (or infamous) book on feminist philosophy and gender? (Germain Greer, 1970) I always thought that Caroline's screen name was a reference to that.

Yes, I was disappointed when I read that book to find that there were no actual female eunuchs in it, and it occurred to me that I actually fitted the title rather better then the book did.

As far as I know there aren't any real female eunuchs, but a female eunuch would be a girl whose ovaries were removed before puberty because adults of higher rank wanted her to grow up without hormones.

I'm not quite a female eunuch. I was raised as male, and had two gonads removed from my abdomen before I was ten. I was told they were undescended testicles that were turning cancerous. There have been times when I wondered if they actually contained ovarian tissue and were removed to stop them producing estrogen. I now think the story I was told is at least as likely to be correct, but I've decided I don't want to know what they were.

I'm not a proper eunuch in that I was given hormones after that.

cheers,
Caroline

[prince....ss?]

My gonads were frozen 46 years ago...I wonder if they are freezer burnt by now? Or sitting in the back of the freezer knocking around with the runaway peas?:rolleye13

[roguekiwixxy]

Melonade wrote:

As far as I know there aren't any real female eunuchs, but a female eunuch would be a girl whose ovaries were removed before puberty because adults of higher rank wanted her to grow up without hormones.


I'd assume all females who'd had their ovaries removed would be a 'female eunuch', no matter when they were removed.

Now if I were born around the time Deurteronomy was written, that's a book in the Bible, then I wouldn't be able to enter the assembly of believers if I'd been castrated specifically by 'cutting or crushing', sounds painful!

As it happens I have been castrated by cutting, there's a good biblical excuse not to go to church! :wink_smil

I'm not quite a female eunuch. I was raised as male, and had two gonads removed from my abdomen before I was ten. I was told they were undescended testicles that were turning cancerous.

Ohh that's fascinating.......I was raised male, had testes they just didn't do all that much. Often it was asked behind my back 'is it a boy or a girl?' and it would have been better if those who knew of the question didn't actually relate it to me, kind killed the old esteme.


I'm not a proper eunuch in that I was given hormones after that.


Oh I'm definitely a eunuch, no doubt about it.

[fraulein_Maria]

[QUOTE=roguekiwixxy;17360]

Now if I were born around the time Deurteronomy was written, that's a book in the Bible, then I wouldn't be able to enter the assembly of believers

>> its why philip's baptism of a eunuch is so meaningful for me (Acts 8:26) <<


As it happens I have been castrated by cutting, there's a good biblical excuse not to go to church!

>> uh ah! ;) only synagogue ;) <<

Oh I'm definitely a eunuch, no doubt about it.

(Isaiah 56:3-5)

Let not the foreigner say, when he should find himself joined to the Lord, "The Lord will surely exclude me from his people";

Nor the Eunuch say, "See, i am a dry tree".

For thus saith the Lord:

To the eunuchs who observe my sabbaths, and choose what pleases me, and hold fast to my covenent, I will give in my house, and within my walls, a monument and a name...

Better than sons and daughters;
an eternal, imperishable name will i give them.

[roguekiwixxy]

>> its why philip's baptism of a eunuch is so meaningful for me (Acts 8:26) <<


As it happens I have been castrated by cutting, there's a good biblical excuse not to go to church!

>> uh ah! ;) only synagogue ;) <<

[QUOTE]
Well if you really want to be specific:

Deuteronomy 23:1

NO-ONE who has been emasculated by crushing or cutting may enter the assemply of the Lord.

No mention of a Synagogue. :rolleyes:





Oh I'm definitely a eunuch, no doubt about it.

(Isaiah 56:3-5)

Let not the foreigner say, when he should find himself joined to the Lord, "The Lord will surely exclude me from his people";

Nor the Eunuch say, "See, i am a dry tree".

For thus saith the Lord:

To the eunuchs who observe my sabbaths, and choose what pleases me, and hold fast to my covenent, I will give in my house, and within my walls, a monument and a name...

Better than sons and daughters;
an eternal, imperishable name will i give them.


No mention of entering the assemnbly of the Lord there either, so I still have a really good biblical reason not to go to church. 8)

[fraulein_Maria]

[QUOTE=roguekiwixxy;17365]Quote:
Well if you really want to be specific:

Deuteronomy 23:1

NO-ONE who has been emasculated by crushing or cutting may enter the assemply of the Lord.

No mention of a Synagogue.

>>> ok wise guy ;) but you are a eunuch born, not a eunuch made, at least according to the midrash, and rabbi Yeshuah....

so many IS conditions tracable to the middle-east....... ;)

[roguekiwixxy]

[quote=roguekiwixxy;17365]Quote:
Well if you really want to be specific:

Deuteronomy 23:1

NO-ONE who has been emasculated by crushing or cutting may enter the assemply of the Lord.

No mention of a Synagogue.

>>> ok wise guy ;) but you are a eunuch born, not a eunuch made, at least according to the midrash, and rabbi Yeshuah....

so many IS conditions tracable to the middle-east....... ;)

Weeeeel that could be debateable. I had balls they just weren't all that useful, weren't all that big either. When I was 18 they were the same as when I was born. Not exactly enormous! :grin:

Oh and (are we allowed to talk about this here?) when Jesus found me, cause he was looking it seemed to me, the Pastor of the church I went to couldn't quite get his head around XXY and tiny testes. It was quite funny really. And lots of perople there thought it was 'not good' to take steorids, steriods got bad name, like it's some sort of illicit drug. A lot of churchy people are like that, another really good reason to stay away from church!

[fraulein_Maria]

[QUOTE=roguekiwixxy;17382]

Oh and (are we allowed to talk about this here?)

>>> yes, as long as we are respectful of the diversity of belief and non-belief. i happen to live with an atheist and somehow we manage to get along just fine. i work for a pagan farmer down the road and we are chums. i laugh when i'm told by religious purists that i must reject these friends....

i make sure that i laugh in the BASSO voice that CAH has given me ;) <<<

the Pastor of the church I went to couldn't quite get his head around XXY and tiny testes.

>>> i'm sorry to hear about that. its one of the reasons i'm a Quaker. <<<

And lots of perople there thought it was 'not good' to take steorids

>>> were any of those people on Birth control pills (steroids) or prednisone for allergies (and in high doses for cancer) which is another steroid?

its a rather broad class of drugs to be condemning and only a few of them "sex" hormones. did any of them take dexamethosone (high doses for the treatment of swelling brain tissue... car accidents and such) or hydrocortisone (low dose anti-itch cream)?
they might as well condemn a person for taking aspirin. laymen can be soo silly. <<<

A lot of churchy people are like that, another really good reason to stay away from church!

>>> i don't go to "church" either... ;) Quakers call there assemblies "meetings".

[roguekiwixxy]

Oh and (are we allowed to talk about this here?)


>>>>i make sure that i laugh in the BASSO voice that CAH has given me ;) <<<

[QUOTE]
the Pastor of the church I went to couldn't quite get his head around XXY and tiny testes.


>>> i'm sorry to hear about that. its one of the reasons i'm a Quaker. <<<


Well the Church was a 'bible believing' as in everything in the bible is absolutely true...in every instance, therefore he should jave been able to lay hand on my balls and cause them to grow! :bounce: But instead he inisisted that it wuold be a little bit hard for him or me to expect a miracle in this regard. When it comes to tiny balls faith evaporates. :grin:



>>> were any of those people on Birth control pills (steroids) or prednisone for allergies (and in high doses for cancer) which is another steroid? <<<<


Well I didn't actually think of that to tell the truth. By the time I got to that church I'd almost hanged myself once, tried to drive my car off a mountain, with me in it, and had my stomach pumped several times to get rid of the pills I'd swallowed. So it really wasn't much a of a big deal....which is a reason why I must find XXY boys prior to puberty. It seems that we XXY's like to kill ourselves when we don't have a great deal of information about who and why we are. But then that's just my opinion based on personal contacts and experience.



>>>>its a rather broad class of drugs to be condemning and only a few of them "sex" hormones. did any of them take dexamethosone (high doses for the treatment of swelling brain tissue... car accidents and such) or hydrocortisone (low dose anti-itch cream)?
they might as well condemn a person for taking aspirin. laymen can be soo silly. <<<<


True, churchy tend to only look at other people to criticise, XXY's tend to criticise themselves waaaaaay beyond the place where anyone else would.


>>> i don't go to "church" either... ;) Quakers call there assemblies "meetings".


So Quakers don't have Pastors either, who leads their meetings then?

[fraulein_Maria]

[QUOTE=roguekiwixxy;17390]Quote:
Well I didn't actually think of that to tell the truth.

>>> lol. sometimes i like being a girl. the doctors are always shoving pills at us to get us to shut up... the trouble is getting the right ones ;) <<<

By the time I got to that church I'd almost hanged myself once, tried to drive my car off a mountain, with me in it, and had my stomach pumped several times to get rid of the pills I'd swallowed.

>>> that's precisely why i'm trying to learn as much as i can. i'm a mental health professional (mostly DD/MR) but i'd like to recognize people BEFORE things get acute.... or ugly....oh, the ADD brain is a scarey thing. lol <<<


Quote:
So Quakers don't have Pastors either, who leads their meetings then?

>>> some modern day "programmed" meetings have backslid into protestant ways, but real quaker meetings have NO leader (totally anti-clergy) as such. we say that the spirit alone leads, and i believe that's true at least half the time.

our official name is "the religious society of friends" and the name is still apt after 350 years..... we are a bunch of friendly people who get together to sit and worship in silence. the silence is only interrupted when someone is "led" by the "spirit" to speak... but this may not happen for weeks. we really believe that Godde wants us to be mostly listening, having given us twice the aural as oral capacity.

its challenging to be ADD and quaker, but the discipline is good.

I once asked (because i am not a quaker born) a dear old Friend,

"do quakers believe in abstinence or moderation?"

she carefully replied (and that's how quakers generally speak... carefully)

"generally speaking, moderation... but we understand that addicts need abstinence. we are supportive of our Friends that must abstain, but we don't require it." :)

they are positively anti-creedal, so you can't say that "all quakers believe this or that" but you can say that MOST of them have become "convinced" that killing for any reason is wrong. :) <<<

[The Female Eunuch]

Prince....ss? wroteMy gonads were frozen 46 years ago

When freezing vegetables, I work on the assumption that they will only last for a maximum of 6 months in the freezer. I don't know if it's the same with testicles. Ic ould probably find out- sheep's testicles are considered a delicacy in New Zealand's southern high-country.

[fraulein_Maria]

[QUOTE=The Female Eunuch;17396]

When freezing vegetables, I work on the assumption that they will only last for a maximum of 6 months in the freezer.

>>> that's an aweful long time. wouldn't it be better to can or pickle them? I spent august (among other things) cooking and canning cauldron's full of sauce. if i didn't give away any, i'd have enough for years. i trade though. i'm trying to acquire a taste for lacto-fermented pickles. its rough going; B&G kosher dills have spoiled me. <<<

[roguekiwixxy]

[QUOTE]
By the time I got to that church I'd almost hanged myself once, tried to drive my car off a mountain, with me in it, and had my stomach pumped several times to get rid of the pills I'd swallowed.


>>> that's precisely why i'm trying to learn as much as i can. i'm a mental health professional (mostly DD/MR) but i'd like to recognize people BEFORE things get acute.... or ugly....oh, the ADD brain is a scarey thing. lol <<<


Well what does DD/MR mean? That wasn't 'acute' that was 'I'm really tired of living, I've had enough' but like a lot of people the ins and outs of being different, it seems, is something that most people don't recognise. So if you're not absolutely weird outwardly, but hide your otutward weirdness until it starts betrying one.....and then our estemed medicals don't like to give value to ones feelings when one is a male, my impression. And XXY guys are generally emotional people, and guys are not supposed to be, and most doctors are guys. So it's very difficult to get the required help, you know to change that which is disfiguring and makes one stick out like a sore thumb, or a red nose, or tits on a bull etc....

See not only persons who've been forced to have genital surgery without their consent have problems witt the medical profession, even people who want surgery can't get it if a doctor won't listen.

So, is every XXY going to be the sam,e as me....no....but how many are? Hey why not find them all and do a study? But what uyse a re studies when the target audience won't read them? I'll bet you'll find most doctors don't know nearly as much about you as you know about youyrself. The problem with XXY's generally is that they can't communicate. And when they can it's by action rather than by words.

Chances of catching what you call and 'acute XXY' not good, not good at all.

[fraulein_Maria]

[QUOTE=roguekiwixxy;17400][quote=fraulein_Maria;17393]


>>> that's precisely why i'm trying to learn as much as i can. i'm a mental health professional (mostly DD/MR) but i'd like to recognize people BEFORE things get acute.... or ugly....oh, the ADD brain is a scarey thing. lol <<<


Well what does DD/MR mean?

>>> Developmentally Disabled/Mentally Retarded... Being ADD and quite hyperactive (in hindsight, possibly more to due with test. poisoning than ADD) i grew up among this population.... we were all thrown together in Special Ed.

It was a real humbling experience to be exceptionally intelligent and instead of being advanced to where i'd fit in, i was sent to learn with those who had every handicap under they sun.... all because i was (at the time) constitutionally incapable of smiling when gum was stuck in my frizzy hair and had the propensity for kicking the crap out of the evil-doer. oh prednisone would have been such a Godde send! ;)

but i digress. <<<

So if you're not absolutely weird outwardly, but hide your otutward weirdness until it starts betrying one.....and then our estemed medicals don't like to give value to ones feelings when one is a male, my impression.

>>> how about this senario.....

your parents KNOW what is wrong (after all they consented to the surgery, perhaps even demanded it) But because they have a vested interest in destroying your credibility (because you tell anyone who asks that your father beats the shit out of you) instead of recieving medical treatment, you recieve drugs to shut you up.... because girls aren't supposed to be aggressive, and if they are its because of a MENTAL problem. <<<

See not only persons who've been forced to have genital surgery without their consent have problems witt the medical profession, even people who want surgery can't get it if a doctor won't listen.

>>> yes, i know. but i still don't think i'm lucky to be missing a clit. <<<


Chances of catching what you call and 'acute XXY' not good, not good at all.

>>> what if.....

since a battery of tests are done anyway (at least in the US) that we simply include a Karyotype in that battery of tests for DD kids? i mean, i'm sure that there are some XYY guys in that population too.... and it might be easier to keep them out of jail (that's where they all seem to end up) if they were treated early. its not like a Karyotype is a particulary expensive test. <<

[melonade]

The problem with XXY's generally is that they can't communicate. And when they can it's by action rather than by words.


Just a curious question, why is that?

Oh, and I hope you haven't had any problems from the 7.5 earthquake that hit the islands yesterday. Caroline too.