My way to get rid of the flame wars [Archive] - Intersex Community Forums

Peter

09-29-08, 07:04 PM

Hi JOS,

I hate to have to tell you this, but in the race to be the rudest person on BLO, you are trailing badly. I am not sure you are really even in the running. LOL It has long been my hope that this BLO forum would be a place where intersex people can find the intersex information and peer support that is stated in our masthead. I hope that things can settle down, and people find the support they are looking for. I used to assist Betsy Driver in answering the emails that came into BLO. Many of the emails asking for advice where from confused people, who were probably not intersex, based upon what they wrote and what I know about intersex conditions. In each case, I would read over their emails several times, and seriously consider the most constructive way to answer. Usually, I would recommend talking with their personal physician, and give them further information on how to become informed about intersex issues. It is my continuing wish that the dialog on this forum can be more constructive than destructive. I also recommend that people focus on sharing their personal concerns and experiences. It troubles me that much of the so-called quasi-medical advice given on this forum turns out to be medically wrong.

Peter

roguekiwixxy

09-29-08, 08:02 PM

Hi JOS,

I also recommend that people focus on sharing their personal concerns and experiences. It troubles me that much of the so-called quasi-medical advice given on this forum turns out to be medically wrong.

Peter

Hello Peter,

I'm sure that most of the time unqualifiored people will give inaccurate ingormathion when it comes to 'advice', which is why I never advise people on medical matters, I'm not qualified, but I am qualified to give an opinion and I have plenty.

Recently somewhere else a posted asked for advice on his blood test results andI told him straight out that I don't have any advice, but I did look up his numbers and suggested he goes back to see his doctor.

The only people qualified to give medical advice are doctors and nobody else.

Kailana

09-29-08, 09:14 PM

roguekiwixxy

09-29-08, 10:21 PM

the only people qualified to give accurate medical advise is a medical specialist. Many doctors do not know enough information to accurately dx any condition unless they have a vast amount of knowledge allready on hand, or personal information that is relavent. Meaning without seeing a specialist on the subject matter, you are likely to get a bad Dx, and or misstreated because what they are saying is not the trueth but only their opinion.

Why are you trying to find things to argue about? Specialists are doctors, but not all medical problems require a specialists response.

Shall we got to the 'speak you mind' place and have a discussion on why you seem to want to argue over really insignifcant matters?

Kailana

09-29-08, 10:58 PM

as Peter did mention quasi medical advise, that happens because there are many doctors who are intentionally leaving out information they dissagree with or have issues with.

I am not arguing but wrote a response that seemed appropriate, if someone wants to get real medical advice, then see a medical specialist on the subject your asking about, otherwise your gonna get a lot of missleading information because the people you ask may not know everything they need too to explain or give an answer that is truethfull and medically accurate.

P.S. Graeme, quit picking on me, I am doing the best that I can with what I do know, If you think your any better at helping people then pipe up and say so, I am only human ya know. I know I can make mistakes too, but I am trying to help people understand my experiences and some may find my word usage tricky or confusing but its all meant with the best intentions.

roguekiwixxy

09-30-08, 12:22 AM

P.S. Graeme, quit picking on me.

I ask you why you seem to want to argue about really insignificant things and that's 'picking on you'.

I can see a remedy.....can you see it?

OkieDokie

09-30-08, 12:43 AM

Hi Kailana,

I am a prolific poster in various xxy forums. It's fairly typical to find folk who want to obsess and speculate endlessly. When I was a suicide telephone hotline counsellor we got calls like that fairly often, and we were taught to recognize when a caller was more interested in seeking attention from the counsellor than solving an actual problem. So I just respectfully refer those folk to a doctor.

Whether or not a person needs a specialist depends on what's wrong with that person. A family doctor can diagnose and treat XXY if s/he knows what to look at and there's nothing else wrong. I believe a patient is better ahead to be familiar with the various issues before talking to a doctor, however there isn't a huge amount of info the patient needs to know.

Being able to talk to knowledgeable folk on a forum can be very useful. There's a person on xxytalk right now who seems to have the symptoms of XXY and secondary hypogonadism. If so, that would be unusual, means he has other endocrine issues going on. This is beyond what the typical family doctor can deal with.

I hate to just say "go to a specialist" knowing as I do that not all specialists are created equal. I've seen more than my share of dud endocrinologists, who either weren't up to date in their knowledge or had some sort of personal prejudice. It wasn't very long ago I went to an endo who told me all XXYs are gay, and giving testo to a gay person so they can boink each other in the butt is just a huge disgusting waste, and therefore he was going to deny me treatment. I kid you not, this actually happened. I was just new to all this at the time, and without the forums I wouldn't have known what to do about it.

The XXY vs KS arguments kind of get me down. I have seen these arguments used many times as just an excuse for getting upset and going off on someone who used the "wrong" term, when in my view, it doesn't matter what we call it so long as a person get the treatment s/he needs.

I'm sorry, I have posted this into a thread about something entirely different, please forgive me, I haven't learned to work this bbs yet. I don't know how to undo it or move it elsewhere. Apologies to all.

roguekiwixxy

09-30-08, 01:03 AM

The XXY vs KS arguments kind of get me down.

I have a more pressing need.

OkieDokie

10-01-08, 10:46 AM

The loo is down the hall.

hahahahaha

miriam

10-01-08, 01:34 PM

Dear friends,

I've decided to stay away from BLO for a couple of days and may be even for several weeks. I'm very disappointed in the way a couple of people here are talking about other BLO members. The rudeness of those people has reached a level I don't want to be associated with.

Groeten, Miriam

I wonder why it is so extremely difficult for some people here to stay on topic. :dunno: :aargh: :thumbs_do :brick:

Miriam

roguekiwixxy

10-01-08, 05:55 PM

The loo is down the hall.

hahahahaha

:aargh: :aargh: Make my day! :aargh: :aargh:

Dianne

10-01-08, 06:00 PM

There was a "topic"??? :thinking2

roguekiwixxy

10-01-08, 06:03 PM

I wonder why it is so extremely difficult for some people here to stay on topic. :dunno: :aargh: :thumbs_do :brick:
Miriam

The topic is your way to end flame wars?

You way works, so shall we all take a few days off now?

What would be another way Miriam?

If you don't want an argumet don't start one, and if one is in progress don't join in, those are two good ways. If you see a post designed to be inflammatory in part, respond only to the non inflammatory parts, even say in your reply that is what you are doing, to get the point across that you want to have a chat not a fight.

What I see frequently here is people joining in on a war in order to make sure it continues. I tend to drift away from those sorts of people.

kamododragon

10-01-08, 06:47 PM

I wonder why it is so extremely difficult for some people here to stay on topic. :dunno: :aargh: :thumbs_do :brick:

Miriam
It's because people can't learn to just get along.

roguekiwixxy

10-01-08, 06:54 PM

It's because people can't learn to just get along.

Is that the reason you called me stupid, or something like that, in your last post to me?

Contradiction appears to be your standard approach to all things, have you ever wondered why that is?

Do you think that is something that a psychiatrist of a psychologist can help you with?

kamododragon

10-01-08, 07:06 PM

Is that the reason you called me stupid, or something like that, in your last post to me?

Contradiction appears to be your standard approach to all things, have you ever wondered why that is?

Do you think that is something that a psychiatrist of a psychologist can help you with?

Do you need need to see a psychiatrist because I think you do because I think you have issues in here.

JOS

10-01-08, 07:08 PM

roguekiwixxy

10-01-08, 07:15 PM

Do you need need to see a psychiatrist because I think you do because I think you have issues in here.

Oh this is good, another way to get some real opinions from komododragon....

OK, give it your best shot, why do you think I need to see a psychiatrist and who says I don't already anyway?

roguekiwixxy

10-01-08, 07:18 PM

avoid grumpy smilies
:evil: :baring_te um... start a completely new topic in a different thread
accept that nobody can possibly know everything (including oneself... I readily accept that LOL) remain emotionally detached and try not to take it all too personally/seriously give people room to calm down or to have an 'off' day and of course use more happy smilies :lol: :grin: :biggrin:

Oh that's excellent advice, you are really talented, and what can you offer to get people to say what they think themselves rather than constantly tell us what other people think?

kamododragon

10-01-08, 07:19 PM

Oh this is good, another way to get some real opinions from komododragon....

OK, give it your best shot, why do you think I need to see a psychiatrist and who says I don't already anyway?

Oh good someone on AD/HD giving advice, take your best shot and while your at it take or AD/HD meds while ur at it.

roguekiwixxy

10-01-08, 07:22 PM

...nothing to quote....

Why are you choosing not to answer a qustion that you have raised?

You think I need to see a psychiatrist, why?

The Female Eunuch

10-01-08, 07:25 PM

Nicky wrote:It's because people can't learn to just get along.

Nicky, you may be interested to know that this problem essentially started when you joined the forum.

kamododragon

10-01-08, 07:45 PM

Nicky wrote:

Nicky, you may be interested to know that this problem essentially started when you joined the forum.
Well It aint me. I think it's Andre who started by letting his friends from XXYTALK come in. It was all quiet until they came in and made some noise.

The Female Eunuch

10-01-08, 07:48 PM

Well It aint me. I think it's Andre who started by letting his friends from XXYTALK come in. It was all quiet until they came in and made some noise.

you were being abusive long before they arrived.

Anis789

10-01-08, 07:53 PM

I wonder why it is so extremely difficult for some people here to stay on topic. :dunno: :aargh: :thumbs_do :brick:

Miriam

Miriam I stopped reading this thread when I came to the post I quote above,

Thanks for all your support, I sincerey hope you come back when you feel ready to do so,take care - I too feel like I could do with a break form this place but obessive behaviour pushes me to check evry day a few times a day for new posts,

All the best

Anis x

kamododragon

10-01-08, 08:07 PM

you were being abusive long before they arrived.
Well you can't blame me for being abusive because it was long abusive when I arrived. So you can't pass the buck and blam me for what happened prior to me being in here.

prince....ss?

10-01-08, 08:33 PM

New rules start now.

We are all responsible for our own behavior...take responsibility for your part in all of this...as will I.

Very defensive Nicky

roguekiwixxy

10-01-08, 09:43 PM

Very defensive Nicky

Yes he is isn't he, now why would that be?

I used to belong to a Kallmann's list on Yahoo years ago, and there were a lots of really nice Kallmann guys who were quite happy to discuss every part of their lives and their treatment, and all sorts of things to do with their treatment, but this fellow, doesn't seem to know anything at all about Kallmann's.

Now he can't be 'shy', hurling constant abuse and trying to flame is not the behaviour of a 'shy' person.

One of my former flatmates is a junky, through and through a pure junky, he lives to get high. He'd steal the gold rings off his dead grandmothers fingers whilst being lowered into the grave. That's how bad he is, then even with all the witneses in the world viewing, he'll deny he did anything.

See any similarities?

fraulein_Maria

10-01-08, 10:41 PM

[QUOTE=kamododragon;17584]Oh good someone on AD/HD giving advice, take your best shot and while your at it take or AD/HD meds while ur at it.

>>> um, kamodo, i have a news flash for you......

not only is ADD common amongst advice givers of all sorts..... doctors, nurses, clergy..... policeman, fireman.... EMT's.....

some of us stopped taking the "meds" because to be quite frank, its an excellent way to fry ones adrenals, if they weren't already fried.....

though we never "out grow" it, we do learn a modicum of self-control, and various techniques for dealing with the fact that our attention wanders...

the fact that it wanders is occassionally a good thing. its difficult (well nigh impossible) for an ADD'er to hold a grudge... because that entails holding onto a bad thought and/or bad feeling about someone.... and holding onto thoughts and feelings is something we are just not good at.....

however, if you keep reminding an ADD'er why you pissed them off in the first place, you might cause them to do something they are also famous for...

hyperfocus on an irritant. <<<

roguekiwixxy

10-02-08, 12:34 AM

however, if you keep reminding an ADD'er why you pissed them off in the first place, you might cause them to do something they are also famous for...hyperfocus on an irritant. <<<

Hi Maria, I have no concerns at all, I know the prejudice out there and in here regarding people with psychiatric illnesses and AD/HD is a psychiatric illness, even if you've never thought of it in that way.

So Nicky's only talent is to flame and abuse, that's how he like's to be, and he refuses to change.

Also, psychiatric illnesses are a feature of XXY guys, it's another not well publicised fact. So I recognise what difficulties I have and do something about them, if the doing something about them causes people like Nicky to flame and insult that tells me he really needs to reasses his motivation.

I think I know his motivation, I think he's the sort of person who can't effectively communicate with others and uses his obnoxiousness as a means of futile communication, in order to generate an atmosphere that he can control.

Curiously that is a symtom of untreated AD/HD.

kamododragon

10-02-08, 12:48 AM

[QUOTE=kamododragon;17584]Oh good someone on AD/HD giving advice, take your best shot and while your at it take or AD/HD meds while ur at it.

>>> um, kamodo, i have a news flash for you......

not only is ADD common amongst advice givers of all sorts..... doctors, nurses, clergy..... policeman, fireman.... EMT's.....

some of us stopped taking the "meds" because to be quite frank, its an excellent way to fry ones adrenals, if they weren't already fried.....

though we never "out grow" it, we do learn a modicum of self-control, and various techniques for dealing with the fact that our attention wanders...

the fact that it wanders is occasionally a good thing. its difficult (well nigh impossible) for an ADD'er to hold a grudge... because that entails holding onto a bad thought and/or bad feeling about someone.... and holding onto thoughts and feelings is something we are just not good at.....

however, if you keep reminding an ADD'er why you pissed them off in the first place, you might cause them to do something they are also famous for...

hyperfocus on an irritant. <<<

Well if someone like Graeme who has ADD/HD, he needs to keep himself in check and learn not to piss people off the next person he dose that to, may not take it very well at all. He's gotta learn self control and not to piss people off.

Okay I'm way off and way out of line pointing his AD/HD, but he brought it on and shouldn't put it out their in the first place. That's like opening the door and inviting someone to rob you.

kamododragon

10-02-08, 12:51 AM

Hi Maria, I have no concerns at all, I know the prejudice out there and in here regarding people with psychiatric illnesses and AD/HD is a psychiatric illness, even if you've never thought of it in that way.

So Nicky's only talent is to flame and abuse, that's how he like's to be, and he refuses to change.

Also, psychiatric illnesses are a feature of XXY guys, it's another not well publicised fact. So I recognise what difficulties I have and do something about them, if the doing something about them causes people like Nicky to flame and insult that tells me he really needs to reasses his motivation.

I think I know his motivation, I think he's the sort of person who can't effectively communicate with others and uses his obnoxiousness as a means of futile communication, in order to generate an atmosphere that he can control.

Curiously that is a symtom of untreated AD/HD.

I think that Graeme needs some lessons in self control because if he keeps doing what he's doing, he's going to get what he gets in return.

So Graeme, stop flaming me and stop flaming people. We know you have ADD and HD and you need to stop it right now. The more you do this the more you piss people like me off and the more we ignore you.

roguekiwixxy

10-02-08, 12:54 AM

Okay I'm way off and way out of line pointing his AD/HD,

Thank you, I'll accept that admission as another apology.

fraulein_Maria

10-02-08, 02:52 AM

[QUOTE=roguekiwixxy;17636]Hi Maria, I have no concerns at all, I know the prejudice out there and in here regarding people with psychiatric illnesses and AD/HD is a psychiatric illness, even if you've never thought of it in that way.

>>> i did when i was a child, and had no recourse.

but i've read very scholarly (and fairly recent... last 10 years) books on the subject and accept the "hunter vs. farmer" model of it, which basically theorizes that our way of thinking is simply a more primitive (though by no means inferior) way of perceiving the world around us.

It is neither neurosis, nor pyschosis of any sort, but is labled as a LD or DD (though that may change) that needs management in this modern world, but is distinctly advantagous in a more primitive environment.

As such, i manage.

I refuse to be drugged into submission, or treated with drugs that will ultimately harm my body irrepairably.

when others have claimed that my "problems" were in my head, it was easy for them to dismiss both the very real health problems that exacerabated it all, and the very real abuse that was the source of most of my "behavioral" difficulties.

I've met ADD'ers that have been fortunate enough to grow up in loving homes.... they do not have half the problems of the rest of us.

i dare say, that they learn to manage, and learn quite well... such that they are indistinquishable from anyone else... with the exception of being noted for being dreamers. :) <<<

roguekiwixxy

10-02-08, 03:44 AM

I refuse to be drugged into submission, or treated with drugs that will ultimately harm my body irrepairably.

<<

I don't see medication that way at all. Regardless of how hard some may try it's not possible for me to lose my temper, not with the meds, take the meds away and it's a completely different story.

I like the medication, it's really good for me.

The only side effect I have is it screws up my appetite, but I can survive that. I know of no long term harm issues, what do you know?

fraulein_Maria

10-02-08, 04:57 AM

[QUOTE=roguekiwixxy;17676]I don't see medication that way at all. Regardless of how hard some may try it's not possible for me to lose my temper, not with the meds, take the meds away and it's a completely different story.

I like the medication, it's really good for me.

>>> i'm glad it helps you. it was not my intent to disparage you or anyone else for taking it. it might have even benefited me as a child if they has actually used the right stuff. <<<

The only side effect I have is it screws up my appetite, but I can survive that. I know of no long term harm issues, what do you know?

>>> most of them (and your loss of apetite indicates) are stimulants. some of them very powerful stimulants.

over time, they will CAUSE adrenal hyperplasia and cushingoid symptoms in NORMAL folks.... so certain folks claiming to have CAH with an abundance of cortisol may indeed have adrenal hyperplasia.... but it is neither congenital, nor a symptom of an IS condition, but rather secondary to self-abuse....

IE... some folks like NOSE CANDY, Crack, Crystal Meth, etc.

As for myself, my poor hyperplased and over-worked adrenals would just become MORE hyperplased, MORE over-worked, but they will not be pumping anymore cortisol, no matter how much they are squeezed.... the enzyme pathway is blocked. i can produce more of the OTHER adrenal hormones however, which means that all the ADD drugs will do is VIRILIZE me MORE AND add extra adrenaline to the mix....

can you say test. poisoning PLUS hyper activity?