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freakishfeline
05-08-09, 02:49 AM
Before I start, let me first say that I first sincerely apologize if I offend anyone, or step on anyone's toes. I'm aware that the questions I'm about to pose may be insensitive to some, but it was never my intention. I also apologize if I've broken any rules; I have to be bluntly honest and admit that I did not read any before posting. I know that alone is inconsiderate, but I have to be honest, and say that I am at my wits end, and am genuinely in a very bad state and had no idea where to turn; this forum was the first place I found, and so I've latched onto it in hope.

You see, my name is Christina, but please call me Chris. I'm nineteen years old--today is my birthday, in fact--and live in northern Texas. I was born a completely normal and essentially sexually healthy female. From a very early age I was queer; I can remember being six and seven, and chasing other little girls around, trying to kiss them, and by the time puberty hit me, I identified myself exclusively as a lesbian, however, this was never quite right, as you'll see.

Growing up, I played with both boys and girls extensively, but never quite fit in exclusively with either gender, and just sort of flowed back and forth between my male and female cliques as it suited me. With a preference for masculine, short and, and a tendency to dress to suit whatever group I was feeling closer to at the time, I inadvertently mastered a certain sense of androgyny from an early age, something that was only added to by a lackluster puberty that failed to leave me with any notable developments to speak of--to this day, I can't even fill in an A cup!

As I matured into my teen years I became more and more distant from both my male and female peers, and eventually disassociated myself from them almost entirely, unable to relate to other girls as they reached the years of make up and sensual clothing, while also feeling out of place among the boys who devoted all their time to sports, and cars. It was during this time my sexuality flourished and I found that I had a very specific tastes towards masculine women, something I originally associated with my self-labeled 'lesbianism', as even I had fallen prey, to an extent, to the stereotypes of bull dykes and queens. At the same time in my life, I grew intrigued by both intersexed individuals, and transsexuals, finding the ambiguity of the former alluring, while in some small way relating to the 'confusion' and sense of 'wrongness' often shown to manifest the latter. Still, at the time I didn't consider myself much more than female and lesbian.

The very first time I met an intersexed individual, I had just turned 17, I believe. We met on an online art community. His name was Kit, and he was, I think, what would be considered a 'true hermaphrodite'. He was very open and honest, and receptive to questions. From what I can recall of him, he was raised female, but did not have any assignment surgeries as a child, but was in the process of a later-in-life gender (re?)assignment, as he considered himself male. Though I was not in any way attracted to him, he opened up a Pandora's Box for me. Thanks to him I began to really reevaluate myself, and my sense of gender identity and sexuality. This was around the same time that I had learned about things such as 'bigenderism', and I spent a great amount of time thinking about how I felt about myself, what I identified with, what I found sexually attractive in a mate, and what I myself would have liked to have been, if only I had could have gone back and changed the circumstances of my own birth. I began to realize that while I had considered myself a lesbian, it was not so much the truth as it was the closest thing to the truth that I could muster and still maintain some simplicity. In reality, I fond that I was specifically attracted to persons which were neither strictly feminine nor strictly masculine, but were instead some combination of the two, either physically mentally, or both, though I did maintain a certain bias at the time for 'female' persons, perhaps because of an underlying sense of 'heterophobia', which was no doubt brought about by my lack of positive examples of heterosexuality as a child.

More importantly, though, I began to realize that the basic idea of being physically intersexed appealed to me. I did not feel right as a woman but loathed the idea of being a man, and yet, somehow, the naive idea of having 'both' appealed to me. I had not yet, however, associated this appeal with my lack of strong association with either gender, or, more importantly, my weak association to both. Eventually I gave up on the idea, well aware of the medical, social, and financial limitations that would cement my somewhat naive ideals as little more than pipe dreams, and ultimately shoved all the feelings away into a dark part of myself, finding that they confused and troubled me too much to continue to dwell on, especially for something that could not be a reality, and locked away they stayed, until recently.

You see, before I met Kit, I knew a very wonderful young girl named Riannon, who I shared a close friendship with, and not long after my revelations, we became more romantically inclined, which helped to reaffirm that I didn't need to dwell on my convoluted concerns; I was perfectly fine being the female and the lesbian, because that meant I had her. We were together for over two years before she came out and told me that she wanted, and has always wanted, to be male. She had always been rather masculine, and it did not come as much of a shock to me. Inn the days following, Rei became Ray, and our relationship seemed to improve drastically. He was much happier, which made me much happier, but as we progressed into the research phases for FtM transitioning, I was more and more reminded of my own personal issues with gender identity, until finally, I sat down one afternoon and thoroughly evaluated myself. After hours of tireless research, I found a label that fit me almost eerily: undifferentiated gender. I amateurishly affirmed my suspicions via a mostly faithful Bem Sex Inventory pilfered from the internet, and though I, in good sense, took the results of the BSI with a grain of salt, I still felt as though I'd found something solid, and was no longer floundering blindly, trying to find some sort of legitimate explanation for why, despite my body, I never felt quite female, but never particularly felt male, either. It was liberating! Years of self-loathing over my inability to just be a GIRL washed away, and for a little while, I felt at peace. I began making plans to readopt the androgyny of my youth, having abandoned it for a feminine nature that didn't feel right, but pleased my professional peers.

Unfortunately, a funny thing happened: Initially, I acknowledged a legitimate identity that I related with, instead of accepting one that I was defaulted with but never really associated myself with, and instantly began to love and respect myself more emotionally. I felt comfortable for a short period, but as my partner and I began discussing things such as T therapy and gender reassignment for him, I began to grow critical of my own body. My breasts, which I had found to be a painful, but gender-necessary nuisance, lost any sense of worth when I stopped clinging to a strictly 'female' identity, and I began to consider an eventual mastectomy in my later years, once I had had children and no longer needed then for even their basic biological purpose. It wasn't long before my genitals fell under scrutiny too, and the longer I considered them, their biological uses, their sexual appeal to both me and my partner, and what they superficially suggested about myself and my gender identity, the less I was satisfied with simple female genitalia. I desired something a little more true to how I viewed myself: neither female nor male. With a lack of genitalia out of the question, I dug up my old fond fantasies of being intersexed. After many days of stress and consideration, as well as detailed discussions with my partner, I came to the conclusion that to full comfortable with myself, I would need ambiguous genitalia. I was reluctant of any surgery that would irreparably destroy what I already had, and wanted to maintain my fertility, so the solution I settled on was one that I found I favor anyway: clitoral enlargement.

I have read that women often enlarge their clitoris for sexual or aesthetic reasons, usually using testosterone, either applied or injected directly to the clitoris, or injected for a body-wide effect, such as during FtM transition therapy. Body-wife appealed to me oriignally, as it would have the added bonuses of shrinking my breasts, perhaps to the point of not needing the mastectomy I've considered, as my breasts really are underdeveloped to such a degree that even half a cup-size worth of loss would render me flat. In addition, it would lower the pitch of my voice, which would be helpful as my voice is excessively high pitched, for even a woman. Unfortunately, the side effects and medical red tape that comes with prescription-grade hormones turn me off of this option strongly. The other option in terms of hormones, meanwhile, is the application of testosterone directly to the clitoris, or the injection of testosterone directly into the shaft(?) of the clitoris. This is unappealing too as I am concerned that non-prescription testosterone cream would not give me the results I am looking for (my clitoris is naturally unusually small, while conversely, I would be looking for more extreme results, such as those exhibited in Buck Angel, the FtM transsexual porn star, to name a vulgar reference). Meanwhile, the shalf injections bear the same downsides as the body-wide injections.

So a third option was considered: surgical enlargement of the clitoris, which is why I've made this thread to begin with. I've tried hard to find information on the internet regarding the practice, if it even exists, but have come up dry, and am far too humiliated to call a clinic specializing in genital surgery and ask personally. And I am aware that this forum may not be a very good place to ask--in fact, I'm sure I could have found one more specialized in that sort of thing--but I suppose I just felt like, perhaps, I'd get a more understanding answer in a place like this? Of course, that may not be the case at all; I may have just made enemies by inserting my foot into my gaping mouth. Honestly, who in their right mind would want to help the 'wannabe intersexed' anyway? I'm sure my very existence could be considered insulting, but...I just have no where else to turn, really. I've considered asking in boards for transsexuals, since at the very least many of them had gone through similar surgical or hormonal treatments as those I've considered, but at the end of the day, I can't bring myself to, because I'm nowhere near a transsexual. You guys are the closest thing to what I feel like I should be, so I'll take my chances and ask here. I'm sorry for the life story, but i partially needed to get it out, and partially hoped that if I told you exactly where I was coming from, you might be more inclined to be gentle with me. I mean no offense, I only want help, and have no idea where else to go. The stress of what I should do to make my body comfortable for me has begun to eat me alive. I've lost sleep and my performance at work and in relationships is slipping, so please, if you know anything about clitoral enlargement, or any procedure that would net similar effects, I beg of you to share so that I may put my mind at rest!

Humiliated and Applogetic,
Chris

Peggy
05-08-09, 04:50 AM
Hi Chris,

You wrote,

...I was born a completely normal and essentially sexually healthy female...

...the basic idea of being physically intersexed...the naive idea of having 'both' appealed to me...

I have read that women often enlarge their clitoris for sexual or aesthetic reasons, usually using testosterone...Unfortunately, the side effects and medical red tape that comes with prescription-grade hormones turn me off of this option strongly...

...a third option was considered: surgical enlargement of the clitoris, which is why I've made this thread to begin with. I've tried hard to find information on the internet regarding the practice, if it even exists...

...I may have just made enemies...who in their right mind would want to help the 'wannabe intersexed' anyway?...

Thanks for being completely honest about yourself and what you desire.

I, for one am not offended. Although this is, in fact, a forum for those born intersexed, you are being straightforward about your purpose, and I don't mind your seeking information here. You would only offend if you tried to pretend that you were born with an already intersexed body or that you understood the (actually usually very different, and sometimes very difficult) gender issues those born intersexed can have.

It is too bad that you and I can not have reciprocal whole-body transplants. :razz: You would probably like my slightly enlarged clitoris and my absent breasts (due to a mastectomy I had by mistake at age 13), and I would like your fertility, breasts and physical normalcy. (See my introductory post.)

What you are seeking is not far from the results of FtM sex reassignment. Most FtM transsexuals are disappointed that these results are less complete than the full transformation to a male body they desire, but it sounds like a partial transformation is exactly what you are seeking.

Here is what you need to know: it is impossible to enlarge the actual tissue that makes up the clitoris by surgery. One thing that is possible is to surgically detach the clitoris from its attachments so that it protrudes more. That is what some FTM transsexuals have done, but usually only after first enlarging the clitoris with full-dose testosterone. The other surgical approach is to create an entirely new phallus with skin grafts. You can read all the details elsewhere so there is no need for me to elaborate.

You mention wanting to avoid the red tape and side effects of prescription hormones, but any form of surgery on your genitalia would involve even more red tape, risk and side effects than hormones, and also much more expense.

I have never heard of injecting testosterone into the clitoris, but I have heard about testosterone cream or ointment that can be applied locally. That would give you some clitoral enlargement with minimal other effects, You could use systemic testosterone in addition to, or instead of, that to get as much or as little overall virilization as you wanted.

Another option for modest clitoral enlargement would be to use a penis pumper. No prescription is required and there are no effects on any other body parts. Some have used this at the same time as hormones with (claimed) dramatic results. Perhaps that would give you everything you want (and it would not cost much).

Regarding red tape - yes, if you wanted legal testosterone in any form, you would need to get it by prescription and would need to jump through a few hoops. However, keep in mind that hormones are considered only the preliminary step in sex reassignment and are usually provided fairly early on. They would surely want you to talk to a counselor, but again, that would cost far less than surgery, and it would probably not be a bad idea anyway.

In general, doctors who work with transsexuals try to be cautious about recommending people for irreversible surgical steps but consider hormone-only treatment a conservative approach. They usually don't mind if all someone wants is hormones. I would just be completely honest with doctors about exactly what you want.

I am not a moralist about gender issues, but I do hope you are very cautious about modifying the only body you will ever have. The changes you are seeking would not be completely irreversible. At age 19 you have plenty of time to think about all your options and make a choice that you will be able to live with for the rest of your life.

Friendly greetings to all,

Peggy


• • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • •
"When art critics get together they talk about Form and Structure and Meaning.
When artists get together they talk about where you can buy cheap turpentine." - Pablo Picasso

Dianne
05-08-09, 06:44 AM
No need to be "Humiliated and Applogetic" - you were completely honest and open and that is a wonderful thing.

Welcome to the forum Chris!

I don't have any answers for you aside from saying, simply, be yourself, enjoy who you are, and do what you feel you need to do.

:grouphug0

freakishfeline
05-08-09, 11:12 AM
Thank you, Peggy and Diane, for your understanding! I've been aware that the results I seek are similar to a partial FtM transformation, and have read many sites and articles, because of my partner's own reassignment plans. However, information on what I personally desire is limited, as, as you've said, it's not really what the average FtM transsexual desires. Penile construction, is abundant, but does not interest me, for several reasons I won't go in to, since I doubt anyone is interested, anyway. C:

I think I'll bite the bullet today and try to find a doctor who works with transsexuals in Texas, so that I can email them and ask some questions. I'm not as petrified of the idea as I was last night, though I think I was very upset and stressed last night to begin with, and wasn't thinking entirely clearly. Though I do intend to wait at least a little while before making any final decisions, I wanted information now so that I could be informed, and sadly, info was lacking. I think I just freaked out a little, and when a friend suggested I try looking at an intersexed board instead for info, I just kind of jumped on it. About halfway through my ramble I began to realize it was probably a bad idea but by that point the verbal vomit was unstoppable, so here I am now.

Anyway, for some reason, I had thought testosterone was available at a lower grade without prescription. None of the sites I looked at prior to coming here had info on actually acquiring testosterone, I guess assuming people would contact a physician, and while I figured that full rounds of testosterone were available only by prescription, I didn't think the cream was, especially have looking up information on said creams and finding it for sale online, although in hindsight it was probably either not quite what it advertised, or illegal.

I'm wary of surgery, but I didn't think there'd be as much red tape in terms of counseling, gender identification, and so on. I know for a fact woman often undergo more aesthetic genital surgeries, such as labia reduction, so a simple enlargement didn't seem like that big of a deal. Still, even if it were possible, it would be a last-ditch effort as there's just something that scares me about changing myself surgically, even if the results are no different than what I'd receive by changing myself hormonally.

Of course, I know I'm young, which is both a pro and a con in and of itself. I'm pretty sound in my gender identity and feel certain that a truly sexual sense of androgyny is what I desire. And of course, I don't intend to rush into things, but I would like as much information as possible now, even if I won't need it until the future. Now more than ever this is important to me, because my the state of my physical sex has become a sudden item of important since my partner began his considerations for gender transition. We've been 'engaged' as it were for a little while now, and at first nothing came of it because we were both considered female, and America at the time was not particularly fond of the idea of homosexuals marrying. The prospect of him being considered legally male really jumpstarted our relationship however, because it meant that we would eventually have something else to work towards--a legitimate marriage. and with that in mind, it's become more important to me to know what exactly I want to do with my body, and where exactly I want to be sexually in, say, five years from now.

Anyway, I think I may hang around here a while, if no one minds. I don't exactly fit in, but that's the story of my life, haha. I think it would be a learning experience for myself, and I'd like to post in this thread what I find out from an actual doctor regarding my specific sort of situation. Maybe it'll help someone else, however unlikely it may be.

Kailana
05-09-09, 11:13 AM
can you do me and or some of us a favor and enlarge your text. I may only be 38 but seriously have issue's trying to read print that small.

Only help your likely to really get is to talk to a doctor, which I believe will more then likely lead you nowhere. I do not know of any medical professional who would be willing to assist one to be androgenous? Not sure if that makes sense. Only medical help? would be if you were infact transsitioning from one gender to the other. Though honestly you never know without talking to someone who might know. I would imagine that is gonna be a doctor.

freakishfeline
05-09-09, 06:04 PM
My apologies. I'm considered legally blind and never had an issue with small text, so I guess I didn't think someone else would! Is this better?

Kailana
05-10-09, 03:32 AM
just a little larger would be better. My eyesight isn't that bad yet. LOL

Honestly I am near sighted but am finding that with glasses I am sitting farther away then I used to too be able to read text. Might mean I am gonna need reading glasses soon or bifocals? Not sure just noticing within the last few years that I get allot of eyestrain with small text. So thanks for the improvement, enlargement of text, it does make it a little easier to read.

freakishfeline
05-10-09, 04:59 AM
I wear bifocals! I'd consider them if you're having trouble with both near and far but can't find a single leans to consolidate both issues.

I still haven't talked to a doctor. I looked for some endocrinologists in Texas to ask some basic questions of but none that I could find that I felt were reputable enough--and transsexual friendly!--had any emails available, and I'm not secure enough to talk to a stranger over the phone about something like this.

I'm supposed to see my psychiatrist towards the end of May/beginning of June and I intend to see if he knows any counselors in the area that have experience with gender dysmorphia and accept Medicaid, but I'm not going to hold my breath. I'm also leery about talking to him personally about the issue. I've been seeing him since I was 12 and as weird as it sounds, the very fact he knows me so extensively makes it an unappealing idea to talk to him about it, though I'll probably have to to some extent, just so he can give me a referral if he knows of someone.

Kailana
05-10-09, 07:16 AM
psychiatrist? or whoever it is you see. if they have known you this long, at least they would have some understanding of who you are.
I would bet he or she has a very understanding concern/ care about you?
I would think they are much more understanding and may provide you a fair amount of resources and or referrals if you did talk to them. If they aren't able to help you, they or he/she should be able to find someone a refferal to someone who would be able too.

take care ok.

freakishfeline
05-10-09, 03:18 PM
Ahaha, yes, a psychiatrist. I'm a non-cycling bipolar sufferer and have been since early adolescence. He takes care of me on that. I'll talk to him I suppose, I'm sure he's heard weirder things come out of my mouth.

This thread wound up being far less about surgery than I hoped! :c

The Female Eunuch
05-10-09, 06:39 PM
I wear bifocals! I'd consider them if you're having trouble with both near and far but can't find a single leans to consolidate both issues.

I found the text difficult to read too, and I think I have near enough to perfect vision (based on the fact that my friends rely on me to read signs that are too far away for them to read clearly). Therefore I would suggest that the problem is with the size of the taxt, not with people's eyes. Maybe you have an unusually large or clear computer screen that makes it easy for you to read it.

cheers,
Caroline

freakishfeline
05-10-09, 06:41 PM
I can't imagine so, my computer's just a little old bargain Compaq. :c

Still, I'm using forum default size now so it shouldn't be a problem any more.

Mitch
05-19-09, 06:13 PM
Welcome and a HUG ! You can never get enough HUGS ... Please ( for your own sanity ) contact John Hopkins Hospital Gender Identity Clinic. They are a friend to talk with.... they can give you the info you need for your state. They will e-mail or mail you lots of educitional and referance information. You could request a listing of FRIENDLY mental health, general practice and endrocronology. Don't be too quick to put a label on yourself ! You're to young to make any decisions without counciling and solid suport.
Again welcome and warm fuzzies...( that's a good book ) I'm OK You're OK.
Mitch