View Full Version : how to make people aware of intersex
I was thinking of ways to make people aware that intersex individuals do exist. It is a shame that even some of the most educated people around the world and in the U.S don't have any idea that the third gender exist. What are your suggestions about solving this problem? I personally think the basic knowledge of intersex conditions or the third gender should be taught in middle schools as part of the sex education program.
I don't think equating Intersex with "a third gender" is going to be very popular with most Intersex people.
Greetings, Inter-lectuals,
babak6 wrote,
I was thinking of ways to make people aware that intersex individuals do exist. It is a shame that even some of the most educated people around the world and in the U.S don't have any idea that the third gender exist.
Whoa! You are talking about two different things here!
It's true that people could always be better informed about physical intersex conditions. I think that most do have a vague idea that they exist, but they are misinformed and/or under-informed about the details. (Unfortunately, the same could be said about many other things.)
A "third gender", which you mention in the same breath, is another matter entirely. Physical conditions exist whether anyone knows about them or not, but a "gender" is an aspect of social interaction and actually can not really even exist if nobody recognizes it or has the concept in his or her head already. Trying to live in a "third gender" without it being socially recognized would be like trying to dance the waltz with a dance partner who was trying to do the tango.
What are your suggestions about solving this problem?...
Not all intersex persons are interested in living in an unconventional "third gender" role. To them, the non-recognition/non-existence of it is not a problem.
I personally think the basic knowledge of intersex conditions or the third gender should be taught in middle schools as part of the sex education program.
Could you go into detail? What aspects should be taught? Who would benefit from this?
Friendly greetings to all,
Peggy
• • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • •
"When art critics get together they talk about Form and Structure and Meaning.
When artists get together they talk about where you can buy cheap turpentine." - Pablo Picasso
Laura Robison
08-18-09, 09:49 PM
I have a problem with teaching about intersex as a third gender. I agree with Peggy's and Dianne's problems with it. Also, I have heard of some transgender people promoting the idea of transgender as a third sex, which makes me concerned about the danger of conflating intersex and transgender.
What should be taught about intersex, how should it be taught, and what would be the unintended consequences? Greater awareness of our existence could bring about greater acceptance, or could cause greater discrimination, depending on how it is taught, and the mindset of the people being taught. That's a lot of questions, and I don't have any answers. Maybe someone else has some ideas about what should be taught and how, or even if it is a good idea.
Laura
Hi Babak6,
My own opinion is that once people start counting genders, they are already lost in deep delusion. I does not matter if they count to one, two, three, or five. I have a modest question. As you seem to believe in a third gender, what is that experience like for you? When you go about your daily life, what parts of it involve a third gender, and what is that third gender like? I am curious.
Peter
Kailana
08-20-09, 09:03 PM
first i am in agreement with many of the other posters.
Many intersex fall into a gender or an identification of male or female regardless of genetics or whatever else.
The 3rd gender should be taught in my opinion but in doing so, it should be mentioned that all people come in all shapes and sizes, all colors and whatever else. Society is a hodgepodge of many different kinds of people.
That said, it is really important to stress that regardless of being intersex, we all do accept ourselves as a gender based on our own experiences. Sometimes we accept the gender we have been assigned, sometimes we reject the gender assigned, and sometimes we fight really really hard and reject any claims by anyone else that there are only two genders.
Regardless people are people. Intersex people are no different then anyone else. Yes talk about it, share your experiences. Do not be afraid of what other people may think or may say. Honestly most people I talk to are very understanding and the few who are not just prove how ignorant they are.
Public speaking is agreat way to share knowledge. We also need to be carefull with who is teaching about intersex conditions. Anyone with a lack of understanding who attempts to teach things, can easily pass on information that is not accurate. As I well know the amount of missinformation in the world only causes confusion.
a 3rd gender is another part or theory made by some, and for some people it is easy to see how a 3rd gender makes sense when compared to biological medically accepted men and women. Thing is alot of us still see ourselves and accept ourselves as men and women regardless of what conditions we have, or the choices in our gender assignments. We are not men because a doctor said we were better off men, or we are not women because a doctor said we were better off as women. we are men and women because we accept ourselves as men and women. <---sometimes our own acceptance of what we are is in direct opposition to what doctors and parents have pushed and reinforced through the use of surgery. We are only men or women if we accept that we are men or women and not because surgery was chosen for us.
I know this last part really really well.
Brianna XX/XY
08-21-09, 06:21 PM
I am going to have to agree with Kailana, "Intersex people are no different then anyone else". I myself have a very big problen with being called a third gender. I am a woman, who was born with an ovi-testie and a few other things like my clitoris was considered to be a micro-penis. 47 chromosomes most all xx. I grew into a little girl and as I got older I became a woman. How my genitals look does not make me any less of a woman or make me fall into a third sex.
Most of all I would not like intersex people to become confused by the public as transgendered folk. That is a whole different catagory of "lifestyle".
Brianna
Thank you all for responding to this thread.
I got this expression from an article written by a medical expert about "What is intersex". There are some terms in different sciences that don't make any sense. I just used this term because I wanted to use a term that is more acceptable to you,but it turned out to be the other way around. .I took a sociology class.I am aware that Gender is different than sex.I don't even like the term third sex because some intersex people are hermaphrodite,and some others have some minor differences in their genitals than males and females . Different intersex individuals are in different places of the sex spectrum. ( I don't know if this term is correct! ).The word intersex is the best word.
I think those of you who say that if children learn about intersex conditions in school, it will have some consequences are right. It will have bad consequences,but remaining silent is worse than that.
If some one hold a sign in the street which says "Defend Intersex Rights!", how many people are Not going to think it is about transsexuality and homosexuality and not even take a look at it.
I live in Atlanta.It has the third largest gay population in the US. I was born with small pituitary gland ( not in the list of intersex conditions). Many people think I am gay,and trying to conceal it. They verbally harass me, say dirty words when they see me. they point at some thing that can never be funny and laugh to death.They think what I really am doesn't exist.They think they are serving society.Knowledge about intersexuals can be a good medicine for people who have no tolerance for any thing that doesn't look heterosexual. you can call them anything you want.
I suggested this plan,but I don't think it is going to work.It's not realistic for now. However, I think intersex activists should stop whispering the reality,and start shouting it. A speech in a classroom in one of the universities of the US after another lecture by some one else about the benefits of masturbating every day is not going to help much.
I appreciate if you guys come up with your own suggestions for informing larger masses of people.
.
Thank you all for responding to my post
I got this expression from an article named"What is intersex"which was written by a medical expert. There are some terms in different sciences that don't make any sense. I just used this term because I wanted to use a term that is more acceptable to you,but it turned out to be the other way around. .I took a sociology class.I am aware that Gender is different than sex.I don't even like the term third sex because some intersex people are hermaphrodite,and some others have some minor differences in their genitals than males and females . Different intersex individuals are in different places of the sex spectrum. ( I don't know if this term is correct! ).The word intersex is the best word.
I think those of you who say that if children learn about intersex conditions in school, it will have some consequences are right. It will have bad consequences,but remaining silent is worse than that.
I live in Atlanta.It has the third largest gay population in the US. I was born with small pituitary gland ( not in the list of intersex conditions). Many people think I am gay,and trying to conceal it. They verbally harass me, say dirty words when they see me. they point at some thing that can never be funny and laugh to death.They think what I really am doesn't exist.They think they are serving society.Knowledge about intersexuals can be a good medicine for people who have no tolerance for any thing that doesn't look heterosexual.
If some one hold a sign in the street which says "Defend Intersex Rights!", how many people are not going to think it is about transsexuality and homosexuality and not even take a look at it.
I suggested this plan,but I don't think it is going to work.It's not realistic for now. However, I think intersex activists should stop whispering the reality,and start shouting it. A speech in a classroom in one of the universities of the US after another lecture by some one else about the benefits of masturbating every day is not going to help much.
I appreciate if you guys come up with your own suggestions for informing larger masses of people.
.
babak6 wrote,
...Many people think I am gay,and trying to conceal it. They verbally harass me...They think they are serving society. Knowledge about intersexuals can be a good medicine for people who have no tolerance for any thing that doesn't look heterosexual.
Are you saying that you are stigmatized as gay but are not, and that you want people to know more about intersex so they will realize you are not gay and not stigmatize you?
Another solution for that problem (the one I endorse) would be for people to not stigmatize gays and not harass people who are only minding their own business and not causing problems for others.
I am not sure of your meaning so perhaps this does not apply to you, but I have little sympathy for those who are not against the basic idea of intolerance, but who only want the intolerance to be directed at persons other than themselves.
Greater knowledge of intersex among the general public could possibly have no effect at all on intolerance and stigmatization. Perhaps people would then just enlarge their list of groups to treat badly so as to include the intersexed.
You mentioned how those who would harass a gay person "...think they are serving society...". I think that is often true. They do not think of the harassment they do as bad, they believe they are helping make the world a better place by encouraging people to conform. It is this kind of attitude about gays that indirectly creates problems in how people react to intersex.
If being gay is unacceptable and stigmatized, and if everyone needs to conform to a heterosexual norm, that creates all kinds of conflicts and dilemmas for people who recognize themselves as having some physical characteristics of both sexes. (E.g. women with CAIS wondering whether their XY chromosomes mean their husbands and boyfriends are gay.) That is why doctors used to ***conceal*** this information from the intersexed persons themselves.
Perhaps you could clarify further what your own situation is and what directions you believe reform should take. Do you think that if people had more knowledge about intersex conditions they would then change their attitudes about gays? Or do you think they would still stigmatize gays, but draw a distinction between gays and the intersexed?
Friendly greetings to all,
Peggy
• • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • •
"When art critics get together they talk about Form and Structure and Meaning.
When artists get together they talk about where you can buy cheap turpentine." - Pablo Picasso
Kailana
08-22-09, 01:17 PM
there are several documentaries out on tv.
a good dozen or so books available as well.
I have been using youtube at the request of another intersex person and there several who chose to do also.
I have also spoken in gender studies courses as a guess speaker and in my everyday public life I am very open about being intersex.
I am shouting to the world cause I agree we all need to be more vocal and continue doing so until the world accepts that we exist and have a right to be who we are and not what others think we should be.
babak6 wrote,
I am not sure of your meaning so perhaps this does not apply to you, but I have little sympathy for those who are not against the basic idea of intolerance, but who only want the intolerance to be directed at persons other than themselves.
Greater knowledge of intersex among the general public could possibly have no effect at all on intolerance and stigmatization. Perhaps people would then just enlarge their list of groups to treat badly so as to include the intersexed
• • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • •
"When art critics get together they talk about Form and Structure and Meaning.
When artists get together they talk about where you can buy cheap turpentine." - Pablo Picasso
I don't like to wear female clothes,but if I do that and wear a dress and just walk in the street,and don't even shave my beards. Does any one grab me and say " Hi , I was just wondering; are you intersex or not? where you born this way?". You know that People don't ask that kind of question. they will just treat me differently. Many people believe that any one who doesn't behave like a man or a woman should be ridiculed and punished.
Intersex issues are some times inseparable from gender identity and sexual orientation issues,but they don't have the same picture in people's mind.Whether most homosexuals and transgenders have been born different is a controversial issue, but no one can deny the fact that you have been born different.Discriminating against some one that has been born different is like racism.
I am a religious person myself. One of the things that some Christian priests use to claim that gay marriage is wrong is " GOD created Adam and Eve." You can imagine how many people would respond differently to this analogy if they knew that human race is not composed of males and females.
The Female Eunuch
08-23-09, 05:01 PM
I don't like to wear female clothes,but if I do that and wear a dress and just walk in the street,and don't even shave my beards. Does any one grab me and say " Hi , I was just wondering; are you intersex or not? where you born this way?". You know that People don't ask that kind of question. they will just treat me differently. Many people believe that any one who doesn't behave like a man or a woman should be ridiculed and punished.
sure, but that's a gender expression thing, and has nothing to do with intersex issues. The person who does dress like that is unlikely to be intersex. When I try to visualise what you describe I end up imagining a man in traditional muslim dress, but I don't think that's what you're trying to say either - I think yopu're trying to describe a person who looks clearly like a man wearing women's clothes while not even trying to look like he's a woman. Such a person would probably be an attention-seeker.
fraulein_Maria
08-24-09, 08:04 PM
[QUOTE=babak6;20332]
Intersex issues are some times inseparable from gender identity and sexual orientation issues
>>> perhaps to the public, but not to us who are actually intersexed..... the vast majority of whom identify quite firmly with there sex of rearing, and heterosexually. <<<<<
I am a religious person myself.
>>> welcome. you'll find people of all faiths here and some with none at all. <<<
One of the things that some Christian priests use to claim that gay marriage is wrong is " GOD created Adam and Eve."
>>> i haven't met too many priests that ignorant. Laity, yes; protestant clergy, yes. One of the few things i LIKE about Roman catholicism is its recent work to end female genital mutilation in africa. FGM is rare in RC countries (though CARES is trying to put an end to that... grrrrrrrh!) As far as the RC church is concerned..... XX praeder 5's are MEN and should be raised such. C-AIS'ers are women, and its unthinkably cruel to not allow them to marry the men of there dreams. <<<
[QUOTE=babak6;20332]
Intersex issues are some times inseparable from gender identity and sexual orientation issues
>>> perhaps to the public, but not to us who are actually intersexed..... the vast majority of whom identify quite firmly with there sex of rearing, and heterosexually. <<<<<
I am a religious person myself.
>>> welcome. you'll find people of all faiths here and some with none at all. <<<
<<<
I always dreamed of being a good teacher,but I don't think I will never have the talent to be one. Many times when I try to explain something, people ask me for clarification.
I said *sometimes* homosexuality is inseparable from intersexuality. by "sometimes" I meant in some cases. The movie "xxy" was trying to show that this is true by bringing an example of a true hermaphrodite who was born with both a penis and vaginal opening. The questions that can be asked is"what is the sexual orientation of a man that has sex with this person?" ,"What is the sexual orientation of a woman who has sex with this person?" , "doesn't this hermaphrodite have the right to have sex with both men and women?"
Some people who have intersex conditions identify as genderless,or they sometimes have gender issues. the intersex condition can be a good explanation for the gender issues they have.
I said that I am a religious person myself because I was going to criticize a religious belief and didn't want to offend faithful people here. I was once reading a Q&A forum of an Islamic website. The Imam of that website said that having sex with a hermaphrodite is an act of homosexuality and is prohibited,and Islam encourages medical treatment.
Medical treatment???? for what? What kind of transexual surgery was available 1000 years ago when prophet Muhammad founded islam? I Mock their ideas:biggrin: and I hate it when some religious leaders try to push it like that .,and I am sure you hate it too.
I believe understanding intersexaulity opens the door to a new perspective on gender and sexuality ,and that is why,in general, both influential religious leaders and governments have tried to hide intersexuals from society throughout history.
spacegirl
09-19-09, 10:24 PM
babak6 wrote:
> Some people who have intersex conditions identify as genderless,
> or they sometimes have gender issues. the intersex condition can be
> a good explanation for the gender issues they have.
Having had long years to think on the subject, I think that an innate sense of gender is like a seed within us at our creations. Like a seed, under favorable conditions it can grow so that we become some gender. Or it can stomped upon and forced to wither from lack of nourishment, so that in the end it dies and we can feel nothing at all.
... not to us who are actually intersexed..... the vast majority of whom identify quite firmly with there sex of rearing
Fraulein, do you have some statistical or study data to indicate these numbers? That is information I have been searching for to include in a presentation to "gender assignment" doctors and I have not been able to find it.
Thanks FM!
Or it can stomped upon and forced to wither from lack of nourishment, so that in the end it dies and we can feel nothing at all.
I can SO relate to that.
I can SO relate to that.
And then some of us are naturally blond. We take the licking, just don't "get it", and go right back to what we were doing. Geez, no wonder I got disowned! :mrgreen: (Some are just dense as a post! LOL!)
spacegirl
09-20-09, 07:59 PM
And then some of us are naturally blond. We take the licking, just don't "get it", and go right back to what we were doing. Geez, no wonder I got disowned! :mrgreen: (Some are just dense as a post! LOL!)
It sounds like you are talking about doing, while I was talking about the feelings of identity that grow from our doings. Our hearts are the pillows of our resting souls.
It sounds like you are talking about doing, while I was talking about the feelings of identity that grow from our doings. Our hearts are the pillows of our resting souls.
I guess what I was trying to say was that my "identity" was always strong and sort of oozed out all over. I get a LOT of abuse for it, turn inward momentarily, and then just carry on as before - it was all I could do because I didn't know any other way other than "to be me". Once I got away from the abuse and let the dents heal, everything was fine.
spacegirl
09-20-09, 09:19 PM
Hello Dianne. It's good that you have a very resilient spirit. There's probably few things worse than doing the doing but finding that the only sense of self you are rewarded with is in a more intellectual sense from being left with an empy heart.
kristan
09-25-09, 10:26 AM
The question of informing and educating others of intersex issues is an interesting one for me. I thought I was a Male to female transsexual for 24 years(since I was 14), and am now dealing with the knowledge of being intersexed. I've been living fulltime as a woman for 5 months and am on hormone replacement therapy. I go thru daily phases of being open about my gender issues and then stealth about my gender issues. I hate the word issues! eeeek!
I want to be seen solely as a woman sometimes, and then there are times I am an open and proud intersex person. This is based a lot on how much I trust a person.There will always be pioneers of an issue(eeks) as taboo as intersexuality/ism, and those who wish to not let people know of their condition. I'm currently on the fence with this one, however, if I'm ever questioned of whether I'm woman or man.....I boldly state "YES!"
:confused6 smooches,
rutherdbrown
09-28-09, 11:26 PM
You cannot consider intersex as third sex. And providing education in middle school about this area will be quiet offensive as the teachers may or may not be aware about the intersex. So according to me first the adults have to be aware of this race and should not spread false beliefs among school children.
spacegirl
09-29-09, 01:29 AM
Hi Rutherd. I agree, it might set a bad precedent actually telling children we're a third sex. It's bad enough being treated like a third sex ("alien") when the world doesn't have their teacher's endorsement. I think thirdsexness should be voluntary, because it's a hard path to live. For those who want to fit into the existing two sexes, it should be their right to try and to receive some slack for their imperfections.
You cannot consider intersex as third sex. And providing education in middle school about this area will be quiet offensive as the teachers may or may not be aware about the intersex. So according to me first the adults have to be aware of this race and should not spread false beliefs among school children.
Many experts consider intersex as the third sex ,but not necessarily the third gender. Regardless of whether intersexuals should be considered third sex or not ,my main point is that awareness at an early age will solve many problems .We are far away from that goal,but If that happens, teachers will be educated first ,before they educate children.They don't just go in the classroom and teach whatever they want,and however they wish. Society will not accept the existence of intersexuals easily ,but I think since we are also human beings,we should have a place in society.
I go thru daily phases of being open about my gender issues and then stealth about my gender issues. I hate the word issues! eeeek!
I also don't like the word issue ,but when I talk to a psychologist about what I go through because of my gender differences,she listed it as gender issues. I probably have to see an expert on gender ( you see I have to use the word issue after gender ) to determine what I am . I wish I had a friend like you who could understand my differences,but I have none. I am pretty much ok with however I feel,but society doesn't treat me well. It doesn't matter how comfortable I am with my gender differences, society doesn't accept it ,and that is when it becomes an issue.
Kailana
09-29-09, 05:49 PM
You cannot consider intersex as third sex. And providing education in middle school about this area will be quiet offensive as the teachers may or may not be aware about the intersex. So according to me first the adults have to be aware of this race and should not spread false beliefs among school children.
Ok, first of all, whether intersex is considered or not considered a third sex means nothing when we are about what someone believes.
This is about education and awareness of people who are just as human as everyone else.
A health educator ie someone familiar with intersex conditions would likely teach such a class similar to sex education that is allready taught in public schools.
Now Belief has nothing to do with being intersex or discussiing genetic conditions. A teacher and even parents do not have a right or reason to complaing about someone who is teaching facts about genetics and hormones that all people have.
See, Making people aware of intersex conditions just makes them a little smarter and doing so will also allow some to accept someone who happens to look a little different then the false beliefs that are currently being taught.
Laura Robison
09-29-09, 06:17 PM
I just worry about how the subject of intersex would be presented in the schools. If doctors wrote the information to be taught it would be all about "disorders" and "abnormalities" that need to be "corrected". They wouldn't be saying anything about us being human beings, and that intersex is a normal variation, and that it's OK to be different, and about being tolerant of those who are.
Depending on how it's done, educating children about intersex could be a good thing, or it could backfire on us. I don't trust doctors to write anything beneficial to us, and doctors would probably be the ones to write the teaching material. Intersex people should have the final say about what gets distributed to the schools, but how would that ever happen?
rutherdbrown
10-06-09, 05:42 AM
Hello everyone,
i would like to discuss with u all about how to aware to all from intersex, like as
1. Recognize that you are not the experts about intersex people, intersexuality, or what it means to be intersexed; intersex people are. When writing a paper about intersexuality, make sure to center voices of intersex people.
2. Critically approach writings by non-intersex "experts" such as doctors, scientists, and academics about intersexuality or intersex people if you decide to quote or cite them. That is, consider what the author's perspective and agenda are, and where his or her knowledge comes from.
3. Do not write about intersex existence or the concept of intersexuality without talking about the lives and experiences of intersex people as well as issues they face. Do not use intersex people merely to illustrate the social construction of binary sexes.
4. Do not judge the politics and narratives of intersex people or movement based on how useful they are to your political agenda (or agendas). Intersex people are no more responsible for dismantling gender roles or compulsory heterosexuality than anyone else is.
5. Be aware that writings by intersex people are often part of conversations within the intersex movement and/or with other communities, including the medical community. Realize that intersex people's words may be addressing certain constituencies or political agendas for which you do not have access to the full context.
6. Do not conflate intersex experiences with lesbian, gay, bisexual or trans (LGBT) experiences. You may understand what it might feel to grow up "different" if you are part of the LGBT community, but that really does not mean you understand what it means to grow up intersexed.
7. Do not reduce intersex people to their physical conditions. Depict intersex people as multidimensional human beings with interests and concerns beyond intersex issues.
8. Focus on what looking at intersexuality or intersex people tells you about yourself and the society, rather than what it tells you about intersex people. Turn analytical gaze away from intersex bodies or genders and toward doctors, scientists, and academics who theorize about intersexuality.
9. Do not represent intersex people as all the same. How people experience being born intersex is at least as diverse as how people experience being born non-intersex, and is impacted by various social factors such as race, class, ability, and sexual orientation, as well as actual medical conditions and personal factors. Do not assume that one intersex person you happen to meet represents all or even most intersex people.
10. Assume that some of your readers will themselves be intersex, and expect that you may be criticized by some of them. Listen to intersex people when they criticize your work, and consider it a gift and a compliment. If they thought that you had nothing to contribute, they would not bother to engage with you in the first place.
11. Remember: five children are being mutilated every day in the United States alone. Think about what you can do to help stop that.
Hi Rutherbrown,
You make some very interesting points. I have a strong feeling that the points that you make are probably taken from Emi Koyama and her Intersex Initiative website. Are you the author of the points that you are making, or should have have put your remarks in quotes, and provided a source?
Peter
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