India offering 3'rd sex recognition

[spacegirl]

I guess 3'rd sexers can celebrate, if they want to.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/expat/expatnews/6560733/Indias-eunuchs-recognised-as-others.html

Though according to one waiter at an indian restaurant, they've always been socially recognized, and treated somewhat badly. If so, might this just legally sanction the discrimination?

[notodd]

Look up Hijra, on wikipedia. I've known about this for a while.

[Kailana]

same, it was also mentioned in the national geographic documentary I was on,

India though allows Hijra the T gender marker if they so want too use it.

[notodd]

What is the T gender?

And thanks for the comfort. I'm fed up with hiding.

Regards Jon.

[Kailana]

The "T" stands for Transgender what thier law basicallly acknowledges as the third recognized sex marker that can be used.

Now I read that Other in this article is being used but I am unsure if that is correct last I had heard "T" was the official recognised gender marker that can be used.


and Jon, its ok, it is not easy when we are tempted to hide what we are, as this comment doesn't really apply to this thread I will let others know that this little part of this conversation here, regards our own preferences and likes not a part of the Other or T gender marker.

There is no reason to be ashamed of our feelings, our feelings are what make us human.

[confusedindian]

Hi people,
I live in India and I think i can pour in the ground realities about T people in india. I wanted to transition to female and I still long to live as a girl. But if you want to live a decent life in India, it is almost impossible if you are a third sex.

Though it is welcome that the government has started to take steps to improve living qualities of the thirdsex people, it is still a long way to go. The recent provisions only enable them to vote in elections. Still it is legally impossible for you to work in public/private sector companies. The society is still no way close to accepting them.

"Hijras", as they are called in India, live in streets in groups and rely mainly on begging and prostitution for living. Policemen take advantage of them and abuse them. You can never hire a house, never will be accepted into hotels, theaters, malls or any public places. One can never think of being accepted to work in any traditional offices.

Hindu traditions consider the third sex as blessed people. It is considered auspicious to host them at your house. But these traditions has now vanished and it is followed only in Mumbai nowadays.

Hopefully, atleast when i retire I can live my fantasy as an woman and the indian society will accept me :)

[notodd]

Hi,

Sorry for the late reply, I should have done so before, but I haven't been on this site very long and I don't feel I have the right to say much yet.

I have a question.

You said on your opening statment that you aren't attracted to men, but you are attracted to women, doesn't that cause a problem for transfering? And will you be able to after you have retired? You will have, hopefully by then, a lot of friends and social ties. I have thought about what I am for many years, but to be honest with you, have never had the guts to do anything about it. It is still, for me, a fantasy and will probably remain so.

Jon.

[Kailana]

my apologies for jumping in but I really don't think it matters much what a persons gender preferences are at all if they chose to reassign.

[notodd]

So another question.

Can one have their breasts reconstructed after having them removed?

[Kailana]

well I would imagine with a complete mastectomy then the only way would be with Breast Augmentation, ie implant.

Now with just lyposuction to scrape away fat and reduce glandular tissue as was done with me, sometimes there is enough breast tissu to regrow. I can't say my breasts are ideal, many people have asked me If I plan on going bigger, but really feel no need too. already have limited feeling and would think that additional breast enhancement would ruin what little I have left.

just a thought realy, then again if there is a way to use existing fat and breast tissue from further up the side of my chest, ie heading toward my armpits then I meay some day see if its possible to get some lipo and restructuring to improve ie get better definition. Sort of like a breast lift using my own spare parts lol, pretty sure it can be done, just no idea about how much it would cost.

[notodd]

Thank you Kailana.

Sounds painful. I'm not good with pain, so I'm going back to my depression.

Cheers.

[Kailana]

ahh go for a walk or take a nice long hot bath. It can help.

I would imagine its getting a little cold outside, have you thought of perhaps picking up a craft?

Drawing, painting and things like that can be very therapuetic.
just a suggestion.

[confusedindian]

Hi,

Sorry for the late reply, I should have done so before, but I haven't been on this site very long and I don't feel I have the right to say much yet.

I have a question.

You said on your opening statment that you aren't attracted to men, but you are attracted to women, doesn't that cause a problem for transfering? And will you be able to after you have retired? You will have, hopefully by then, a lot of friends and social ties. I have thought about what I am for many years, but to be honest with you, have never had the guts to do anything about it. It is still, for me, a fantasy and will probably remain so.

Jon.

my apologies for jumping in but I really don't think it matters much what a persons gender preferences are at all if they chose to reassign.

I was assuming MTF people will generally be attracted towards males(something that makes myself doubt if I really want to be female). my ultimate fantasy would be to transition to female and persist my male genitals. I would love woman and live as "lesbian". All said, it is only my fantasy and I guess I will never be able to do anything about it.

and about the 'retirement' it is more of where I would like Indian society to go rather than what i will do :)


So another question.

Can one have their breasts reconstructed after having them removed?

I have had a complete mastectomy and tat would mean no breasts ever in my life. The decision to undergo mastectomy is something that I regret till date. May be Kailana will help us find an innovative way to "undo" mastectomy in future !!

An finally thank you all for replying. it makes me fell good to know that there are people in the world to understand my feelings.

[notodd]

Glad to have you here. Hope to speak some more in the coming months.

And yes Kailana, not only is it getting cold, but it is already. brrrr....

I feel much better now thanks, I went window shopping. Always a goodie.

Jon.

[Kailana]

honestly I am sure there are a few specialists that do indeed restore/rebuild breasts after complete mastectomy, I know I have watched one or two documentaries before, just I am not that familiar with what is done and there is always implants available if you really want them that is.

[spacegirl]

Seems like there's a pattern going on, of possibly partial ais persons getting mastectomies feeling sure they are men by nature, and then regretting it because they want to be women for purely sexual reasons.

Maybe there should be rules regarding male mastectomies? Force them to have counselling and a waiting period and a real-life ordeal of binding first ... chances are those are perfectly healthy breasts they want to get rid of.

[Kailana]

not really sure if it is a pattern or not or just something that happens due to harrassment as a teen and in a way of saying a situational body dysmorphic self image issue. Just thinking that for many just having breast tissue ie gynocomastia is an issue that cause a great deal of discomfort and embarrassment especially when it is peers around them that are causing alot of the problems with development.

I sort of think that assuming that wishing to not have had whatever breast tissue removed is not really an appropriate assumption to make or assume of anyone. While there may be a factor for some with wanting a little of both worlds I would think that once someone has had thier chest reduced that there are other issues that arise, like with myself, and scar tissue. While not truely horrendous scar tissue is obvious in certain situations and being asked about the cause is something that I think a great many people would understand.

Sort of like asking a assault victim over and over again every time you saw lets say a Facial cut on a cheek "how that happened", I would bet that the scar issue and people just asking is its own way of torture and not so easy to deal with. Clearly you would not make assumptions that this victim intentional had his or her face scarred just so they could get sympathy from other people or a more relavent refference they did not intentional become a victim of an assault intending to cause facial disfigurement just so that other people would find them more interesting looking and attractive.

Now mind you sometimes something like a scar can actually make people more appealing, once they have found thier strengths and confidence and not let a scar get to them. I know several people who are amazingly confident, sort of though the injury's that can be seen seem to be masked with everything else like Joy, confidence, love and humor. just wish I was as confident as they were, they seem to glow and the little flaws that mark them seem to not bother them in the least. That is not something, a state of mind, I have been unable to achieve.

perhaps not making broad assumptions about people would be best, you never really do know what a person is actually thinking without them actually telling you. Nor can you assume that others with similar conditions or features are thinking the same thing.

[spacegirl]

Kailana,
I know the social stigma of having breasts when one is expected not to. There was a time when partly due to my breasts I was sexually harrassed to a level which would have been criminal if the world had been calling me female then. But ... even under pressure I didn't ask for a mastectomy. Maybe under pressure our decisions show our true nature?

Why would it be bad to require a counselling and a waiting period for male mastectomies? They are asking to remove something which was a natural part of them, a little soul searching might be in order. Even if it's socially acceptable to have them gone, the individual is still likely to miss them.

[Kailana]

personally I think it would be only ok for a very few people.

If I had the option at to have at least been talked too and asked if I wanted my chest reduced then the doctor then would of never have touched what I had. With a required counseling session or two at least unwanted surgery would of never occured.

Now on the other hand, for those who want what ever growth removed I doubt they would want to have to see a shrink just to get an ok when most really only need to talk to a doctor and get a referal. See they usually have allready asked or been asked if they want there chest/breast removed and have had some time to think about it or have wanted thier chests reduced for quite a while and making a person see a therapist or psychiatrist just to get an ok could cause several to do some pretty drastic things. Lead to additional depression and who know what else.

I would think that doctors might just want to ask a few more questions before giving out referrals.

[confusedindian]

personally I think it would be only ok for a very few people.

If I had the option at to have at least been talked too and asked if I wanted my chest reduced then the doctor then would of never have touched what I had. With a required counseling session or two at least unwanted surgery would of never occured.

Now on the other hand, for those who want what ever growth removed I doubt they would want to have to see a shrink just to get an ok when most really only need to talk to a doctor and get a referal. See they usually have allready asked or been asked if they want there chest/breast removed and have had some time to think about it or have wanted thier chests reduced for quite a while and making a person see a therapist or psychiatrist just to get an ok could cause several to do some pretty drastic things. Lead to additional depression and who know what else.

I would think that doctors might just want to ask a few more questions before giving out referrals.

Kailana,
I know the social stigma of having breasts when one is expected not to. There was a time when partly due to my breasts I was sexually harrassed to a level which would have been criminal if the world had been calling me female then. But ... even under pressure I didn't ask for a mastectomy. Maybe under pressure our decisions show our true nature?

Why would it be bad to require a counselling and a waiting period for male mastectomies? They are asking to remove something which was a natural part of them, a little soul searching might be in order. Even if it's socially acceptable to have them gone, the individual is still likely to miss them.

Hi Spacegirl and Kailana,
I got mastectomy done out of my own consent just about an year and half ago. i did that solely due to social pressure and partly due to ignorance as well. I have had always liked them. Only after I lost them I understan dhow much i miss it. Nothing much can be done to help people like me I guess :)

[Aseras]

I've been offered to have a reduction/mastectomy. I'm pretty big, I'm a 36D/38C but I hide it well. I've had many years of practice, they've been with me since I was 13 or so. I know where to buy binders and such and what clothes work to hide well. My current doctor even asked if I had considered having them removed. Of course I won't do it, there's no way I'm going through that kind of surgery unless it is a life or death type of thing. I am absolutely against surgery as much as possible.

There are times where they are an embarrassment or an inconvenience but I find a way to make it work. I can't go run around topless with the "guys" and I restrict certain activities because of that. I do occasionally go swimming or diving by wearing a binder under a tshirt and that works reasonably well. no one has caught me yet :P

This upcoming friday I'm going for a mammogram because one of mine has a irregular area, but it has always been there. Both of my doctors have said I need to get it done now, even though I just turned 30 ( cancer boogeyman ) Both my mom and sister have fibrous breasts and mine are that way too. There's absolutely no history of any kind of cancer at all in either side of my family so I am not really worried.

[confusedindian]

I've been offered to have a reduction/mastectomy. I'm pretty big, I'm a 36D/38C but I hide it well. I've had many years of practice, they've been with me since I was 13 or so. I know where to buy binders and such and what clothes work to hide well. My current doctor even asked if I had considered having them removed. Of course I won't do it, there's no way I'm going through that kind of surgery unless it is a life or death type of thing. I am absolutely against surgery as much as possible.

There are times where they are an embarrassment or an inconvenience but I find a way to make it work. I can't go run around topless with the "guys" and I restrict certain activities because of that. I do occasionally go swimming or diving by wearing a binder under a tshirt and that works reasonably well. no one has caught me yet :P

This upcoming friday I'm going for a mammogram because one of mine has a irregular area, but it has always been there. Both of my doctors have said I need to get it done now, even though I just turned 30 ( cancer boogeyman ) Both my mom and sister have fibrous breasts and mine are that way too. There's absolutely no history of any kind of cancer at all in either side of my family so I am not really worried.

I was not that skillful or lucky in hiding. i have been caught a number of times and was ridiculed a lot. That was a driving cause for my decision to undergo mastectomy. I hope your mammogram goes well and you will be fine.

[Kailana]

confusedindian you can always go for breast augmentation, they do make some nice looking feeling implants these days.
While not ideal, if you actually want em back you can always try, though I would guess your not really interested in doing so due to the area you live in.

Honestly I sort of wish Doctors would just explain to people that we do come in all shapes and sizes, and there is nothing wrong at all with being male and having boobs, you know, people and kids need to be taught not to harrass others just because of the way they look or develope.

Yes our society has some pretty barbaric conceived notions what men and women are supposed to look like but as we all well know, what is said is far from the trueth. We as a people are a mixture that are supposed to get along and it really doesn't matter that we don't quite fit one or the other stereotype by appearance.

[spacegirl]

confusedindian; you may have acted of your own free will, but after only 18 months you regret it and also want to be a woman. If you had been forced to wait for your mastectomy and actually discuss your motivations, maybe you wouldn't have done it at all and you would now have one less sadness to live with?

kailana; a breast cancer survivor told me that reconstruction w/ implants just isn't the same, that besides looks there is a difference of sensation. I looked online for others saying that, and there are. And isn't the emotionally more important thing whether you feel you have breasts?

There was one solution I found, there has been research with breast stem cell injections. But it's not ready for the masses yet.

[Kailana]

I deffinately understand spacegirl. My only reason for not wanting breast implants is infact the loss of more feelings.

So far very few people understand that even with just the reduction of fat and some of the breast tissue removed by scraping it out, Lipo I really have very little feeling left and most people even doctors assumed that with HRT I would of had issues with breast tenderness, they are surprised to hear that I have had only one issue and that is with seatbelts and I would imagine that any woman would have the same problem. Other then that I have had no issue at all with painfull or tenderness with Hormone induced breast growth.

2nd issue is over more scarring, I dont think I would much appreciate seeing or feeling more scars then what I allready have. They have been an issue for me for 20 years now and I don't think I could take seeing or feeling more or having others make comments if they do happen to see me.

In a way I am actually sort of happy that my chest while masculinized by minor surgery still left breast tisue behind, without it I know I would be having a much different issue with body acceptance then I allready have.

[spacegirl]

I deffinately understand spacegirl. My only reason for not wanting breast implants is infact the loss of more feelings.

So far very few people understand that even with just the reduction of fat and some of the breast tissue removed by scraping it out, Lipo I really have very little feeling left and most people even doctors assumed that with HRT I would of had issues with breast tenderness, they are surprised to hear that I have had only one issue and that is with seatbelts and I would imagine that any woman would have the same problem. Other then that I have had no issue at all with painfull or tenderness with Hormone induced breast growth.


When mother nature surprised me many years ago, I had full sensation but though it started out uncomfortable I wouldn't call it pain. Or else maybe I've developed a higher than average pain threshold?

I find that on many cars it's easy enough to position any shoulder straps through the center of my torso (between the twins) Though in some cars on long trips I have to do odd things with the shoulder straps, like underneath across my ribs.


In a way I am actually sort of happy that my chest while masculinized by minor surgery still left breast tisue behind, without it I know I would be having a much different issue with body acceptance then I allready have.
Before you mentioned it in this thread, I hadn't realized you'd had any breast surgery. (Sorry)

[The Female Eunuch]

Spacegirl wrote:confusedindian; you may have acted of your own free will, but after only 18 months you regret it and also want to be a woman. If you had been forced to wait for your mastectomy and actually discuss your motivations, maybe you wouldn't have done it at all and you would now have one less sadness to live with?

that all depends on the agenda of the counsellor. At times I have been sent to counsellors who had their own agendas, and I think a counsellor with an agenda to convince you to have a mastectomy could actually talk you into it, only for you to regret it later.

cheers,
Caroline

[The Female Eunuch]

I was assuming MTF people will generally be attracted towards males(something that makes myself doubt if I really want to be female).

Probably the majority of MtF transsexuals are attracted towards males, but a significant minority are attracted to females.

I was raised as male, and but felt more inclined towards a female gender identity as a child. Part of why I stopped thinking this as a teenager is because I had counselling from a psychologist who set out to convince me that I had to be male and that I should accept that, but the other thing that made me acceopt a male identity was discovering that I was attracted to females. I transitioned to living as female after I turned 20.

my ultimate fantasy would be to transition to female and persist my male genitals. I would love woman and live as "lesbian". All said, it is only my fantasy and I guess I will never be able to do anything about it.

There are a number of people who have that desire, and I think they refer to themselves as 'transgenderists'. I've never really taken much notice of them because I can't identify with their desires.

Here in New Zealand we have a group of people called fa'afafine, who are ethnically Samoan and follow a Samoan cultural tradition for living as socially female with male genitals, but they exclusively have sex with men (if there are any who have sex with women, they are deeply closeted and probably wouldn't admit it to their fellow fa'afafine).

cheers,
Caroline