View Full Version : Cais women, are you "TQ"?
spacegirl
12-21-09, 01:22 PM
Galen requested an interesting debate on the virtues of having "transgendered"/"queer" listed on a centalized permanent electronic medical record for each intersexed person.
Cais women, what say you, do you want to have yourselves officially listed as transgendered queers? Feel free to forward the question to the us chapter of the aissg. I'm sure Galen would appreciate hearing from them.
galens47
12-21-09, 01:38 PM
If you are interested in contributing to the advocacy please forward the rest of the information.
Thanks,
G
fraulein_Maria
12-21-09, 06:38 PM
[QUOTE=galens47;22206]If you are interested in contributing to the advocacy please forward the rest of the information.
>>> um, space was being a wee bit sarcastic, lol.
If someone dared to send such a missive to AIS-USA, they might not leave the site with all there body parts intact..... and the same would be true of the CAH sites. the vast majority of IS people identify as HETERO-SEXUAL and find the comparison of themselves to TS/TG people deeply offensive. But do not make the mistake of writing them off as bigots (though some are.... about the same % as the gen. pop.) They have good reason to wish to avoid being mis-labeled, and having good reason is the opposite of phobia.
I wouldn't say that cAIS women are transgendered in any way. A cAIS man or other gender, yeah, but not a woman. And I've never heard of anything but a cAIS woman.
the vast majority of IS people identify as HETERO-SEXUAL and find the comparison of themselves to TS/TG people deeply offensive.
Most transgendered/transsexual people are heterosexual, as well.
spacegirl
12-23-09, 11:16 AM
Ryles;
fraulein Maria was right, I was being sarcastic. The same kind of sarcasm as suggesting to a certain french princess (Marie-Thérèse, wife of Louis the 14'th) that she might like to go ask the starving commoners whether they'd rather eat cake. Knowing exactly what their reaction to such a question would be.
But it doesn't matter. I've since contacted a real activist with real political ties, one who would be the last person on earth to let Galen's proposal happen if it were real. And they set me straight, and now I feel a bit like a fool for believing Galen.
I think I'll shut up and be quiet now. I'm obviously too vulnerable to being trolled.
I figured you were, it was kind of obvious in your first post, but still wanted to point out that cAIS women definitely aren't transgendered. :P I imagine anyone who'd say they are, even just to troll, doesn't know the meaning of cAIS or transgendered. :rolleye13
fraulein_Maria
12-23-09, 08:48 PM
[QUOTE=Ryles;22269]I figured you were, it was kind of obvious in your first post, but still wanted to point out that cAIS women definitely aren't transgendered. :P I imagine anyone who'd say they are, even just to troll, doesn't know the meaning of cAIS or transgendered. :rolleye13
>>> we're glad YOU realize it. sadly there are professionals out there who will still insinuate it, when they aren't dumb enough to come out and say it. then there are those in your community who will barge in here and say the same thing..... after they (unsuccessfully) try to snow us about themselves being IS.
I'm delighted you were honest from the get-go. :) Welcome! and may you and your kind increase. :)
>>> we're glad YOU realize it. sadly there are professionals out there who will still insinuate it, when they aren't dumb enough to come out and say it. then there are those in your community who will barge in here and say the same thing..... after they (unsuccessfully) try to snow us about themselves being IS.
I'm delighted you were honest from the get-go. :) Welcome! and may you and your kind increase. :)
The transgendered community is unfortunately very close minded and ignorant, even towards itself, so it doesn't surprise me one bit that there are TS/TG people who'd do that. :???: I wish I could say there are a lot more trans people who are open minded- but it seems pretty uncommon.
I hope that'll change soon, though. And I'd like to know enough about IS to be able to correct misconceptions/ignorance when I see it.
And it also doesn't surprise me that "professionals" say or insinuate that, either. I've had a "professional" tell me that no one can live between "male" and "female", I can imagine what advice he'd have for parents of intersexed kids. :thinking2
The TS TG community is close minded and ignorant because most of them live in some fantasy world.
.... most of them live in some fantasy world.
You can notice but you're not supposed to say anything! LOL!
spacegirl
12-25-09, 01:42 PM
oh, the irony.
What is that supposed to mean?
spacegirl
12-25-09, 11:26 PM
What is that supposed to mean?
Enjoy your wild bootstrap chase. After analyzing your comments, I consider the two of you no more for real than Galen.
Enjoy your wild bootstrap chase. After analyzing your comments, I consider the two of you no more for real than Galen.
Sigh. I've shared a lot of my records and stuff with you.
You are so quick to cast stones too even after being persecuted yourself. There's a lot of good people and advice here, but I hate the paranoid suspicious atmosphere.
cavegirl
12-28-09, 03:47 PM
Galen requested an interesting debate on the virtues of having "transgendered"/"queer" listed on a centalized permanent electronic medical record for each intersexed person.
Cais women, what say you, do you want to have yourselves officially listed as transgendered queers? Feel free to forward the question to the us chapter of the aissg. I'm sure Galen would appreciate hearing from them.
There is not yet clearly established evidence that homosexuality or gender identity problems entirely correspond to Cais and other androgen resistance/insensitivity conditions.
However, there are a few things that do point to the reception of endochrines, testosterone, in fact, that in animal research suggests a contribution to brain differentiation. This level is low at birth and rises to normal male pubertal levels for 2 months before before declining to the low, barely detectable childhood levels.
However, the assignation to either transgender or homosexual are both inaccurate descriptions of Cais persons. Cais does not denote a sexual preference for one's partners, nor does it imply ambiguous gender identity necessarily.
galens47
12-28-09, 06:53 PM
Hi All,
I know very little about CAIS/PAIS, do you have any reading suggestions?
We are not going to label anyone nor imply sex, gender or sexual orientation.
Our goal is to establish educational curriculum for ~30 Clinics in a Primary Care Network as well as all residents and medical students associated with the school in question.
This is a chance to establish a voice and hopefully change the current attitudes toward the treatment or lack thereof of the lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender/transsexual, intersexed and questioning community.
The knee-jerk response to this emotionally charged topic is anticipated, unfortunate, but expected.
Thanks,
G
There is no such thing as a "lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender/transsexual, intersexed and questioning community".
Groeten, Miriam
spacegirl
12-30-09, 01:09 AM
Aseras;
I believed in you until you showed me a mri belonging to a male pelvis with a severely enlarged prostate, stage 2 prostate cancer, and an arrow pointed at the top of enlarged seminal vesicles, and then tried to tell me your prostate was fine and birth control pills took away the pain.
PAISWoman
12-31-09, 12:23 PM
:pat: Why must people go through such lenghts to prove things to people on this message board?
People ask you question and you give your opinion or state what you've been through and out comes the nay sayers. Really, get a freaking life people and stop questioning people's conditions as if your an expert on intersexuality.
I feel you pain as I went through the same thing and it is upsetting particularly if you've spent half you life being told there is nothing wrong with you only for these half educated doctors to discover on an MRI or CAT scan that something is indeed not right.
This is supposed to be a place where people can come to talk about their experiences and discoveries, not a proven ground to a bounce of arm chair hidden name people that you possibly don't even know in real life. Maybe I need to leave this message board because it has become pathetic at the most.
Maybe I need to leave this message board because it has become pathetic at the most.
Please don't! The more good people who bail out, the worse this place becomes. Most people here ask valid questions and a few are quite knowledgeable. It is only a very few who feel the need to pick everybody else apart.
spacegirl
12-31-09, 02:09 PM
Paiswoman;
Oh don't leave because of me, because I would leave before the severe people pickaparters will. I think you should choose your heros more wisely, but who am I to say.
Aseras;
ok, it's your mri pictures, if you say so. Then congradulations, you have stage 2 prostate cancer and if your treatment is birth control pills then you are going to die. Soon.
Dianne;
Again with your irony. If you and Aseras were not busy casting stones upon others, there would be no need to comment on that irony.
@<hidden>: Now is the time to tell the other people here why you think you can read those MRI's.
Miriam
Hi Aseras,
Welcome to the small prostate club. I have no specialized qualifications to read MRIs, and I find it very painful that you feel that you have to post your MRIs online to get validation. I also have a small prostate. The medical treatment of small prostates involves special considerations. For instance, prostate surgery for enlarged small prostates is generally done by doing a couple of small incisions of the urethrea. I recently discussed this with a urologist, but I have decided to hold off on prostate surgery as long as possible. Surgery for small prostates is not a very common medical procedure. Sometimes small prostates present problems in screening for prostate cancer. There are non-intersex people who have small prostates, so having a small prostate is not necessarily a sign of an intersex condition. but, then again, it also might very well be part of a larger intersex picture. I have no reason to believe that you would lie about something like having a small prostate, so I find much of this thread perplexing. Getting an informal online diagnosis of stage 2 prostate cancer is probably upsetting, and I recommend that people not post MRIs, or their interpretations of someone else's MRIs on this forum. As a moderator, I will be watching this thread closely to try to keep it from getting further out of hand. I also trust that Miriam will do a good job of looking after this thread.
Peter
I don't cast stones, ever. I try my best not to take sides or judge anyone. In fact, I had been sticking up for you Spacegirl and it really hurts.
Peter, you are more than welcome to check my pm box here and see I don't take sides or judge anyone and avoid it. I don't have cancer. As far as the mri was concerned I don't have any pathology they see. Only some unusual anatomy and the only was to further clarify it is to do exploratory surgery to determine it. Peter I'd be willing to send you a email of some of my medical records and such if you'd like to review them.
This place seems infected with paranoia. If such fear and ostracizing is so rampant here, how does anyone ever expect regular people to accept any of us?
Lately it seems every thread gets ruined with thngs such as this. The good content is getting buried with this crap.
Peter, you are more than welcome to check my pm box here and see I don't take sides or judge anyone and avoid it.
Hi Aseras,
I understand what you are saying, but for the record, even if I wanted to, I could not check the private (pm box) mailbox of any BLO forum member. I just want to be very clear that pm's are private. To repeat myself, there are no admin tools in our forum's administration console that allow for a forum administrator to view members' private messages. Even if I could, it is something I would never do. I have many years of experience as a government network administrator, involved in all levels of system security. Feel free to send me a pm if you want.
Peter
It does make it hard to ask questions (about yourself) when you KNOW you will be attacked if you do.
spacegirl
01-01-10, 11:17 AM
Miriam's question answered to her by private message.
Dianne, remember those words next time you say someone else is clueless or living in fantasy. As if after spending most of your life as one of the people you're painting with a broad brush, that you somehow are not painting yourself with the same strokes. If you must be clueless or fantastic too then why should anyone listen to your opinion? Because after so many years you've suspected a uterus for the last month or two? :) If you say so.
goodbye. I will speak no more about you, or to you.
steve/lisa
01-01-10, 01:49 PM
This is and I hope always a site to come to and find things out and mostly talk to others who are or feel they are intersexed,or a place to talk to themselves..
Shame on everybody here as I have always said here and in real life we need to stand together,divided we will fall,together we would change the world or at least our home countries,and for anyone here to feel as though they have to PROVE themselves to anyone is beyond me,we are what we are and thats all.
I don't know who started all this but just STOP the fighting,we are all the same,yes we differ with our DNA,and how we where raised and so on,but we all came here for the same reason,to find something we can't seem to find else where,acceptance and hopefully answers or friendship even..
In my pathitic life,i have found there are those that are happiest when everybody is miserable,so please lets just back to a normal forum for us and what this site does repersent,which i feel is a place to post without starting fights,and bad feelings about one another...
"Bodies Like Ours, Intersex Information and Peer Support"
Seems as if something has been lost along the way. There is so much venom-spitting and anger here that it is hardly a "supportive" environment for anyone any longer.
I came here 4 years ago with a genuine desire to understand what Intersex is about and what people go through and to offer any understanding or support that I could. I wanted only to learn and to help. I have always been totally open about what I know of my own medical history and have never made any claims. I don't "do conflict" nor do I put up with continued attacks. There are some here with a great deal of anger, seemingly toward everyone, and that anger will destroy them and everything around them. I hope they seek professional help before it is too late.
No need to respond to this post because I wont be back to read it because I wont stay here and be attacked.
I wish you all well. I hope you find what you need.
This is really getting out of hand. While healthy debate is fine, turning every thread into witch hunts and ruining the content and membership of the board is ridiculous.
Especially when most of it is merely caused by someone who is simply misguided.
I have been reviewing private emails from Aseras, Spacegirl, and Miriam. I am puzzled by the blow-up. In their private messages, Aseras and Spacegirl express real concern for each other's thoughts and feelings, and both wish for the best possible outcome for this conflict. I don't want to make public the details of what has been communicated to me, except that upon reading the emails, a much less sinister picture emerges. I believe that Spacegirl is genuinely concerned about Aseras' heath.
I think that intersex people who post here are generally very brave. After a life-time growing up amid shame and secrecy, sometimes an off-hand remark can send me in a downward spiral of hurt and anger. I know that it has happened to me, that deep painful feeling of being misunderstood that is often associated with self-hatred and low self-esteem. It's not like they hand out medals for being intersex.
People have used the term witch-hunt to describe the recent activity on this forum. I don't think that there is witch-hunt comparable, let's say, to the systematic drumming out of gay and lesbian soldiers out of the U.S. Military.
I recommend that people try to take a two-week time out from the issues raised in this thread. Hopefully, with some time for reflection, people can again see the better side of each others natures.
Peter
Kailana
01-03-10, 09:25 AM
good advice Peter
Jumping back to spacegirls initial comment on the TG/Queer question concering intersex conditons,
first of all I would of thought this question would be better in the general health section then in the CAIS threads but whatever.
For Galen too:
you can throw away all the acronyms, cause honestly Intersex is the only one that really applies to this forum.
I would seriously think that "I" should be talked about within the medical world to provide better care for those of us who are intersexed.
hell of all the Genetic conditions or syndromes that exist, it appears that the intersex genetic conditons lol basically has make all of us, non entities with no rights at all over our own lives or bodies. That is why I must support an initiative to promote openness and honesty within the medical field.
The medical world is the one place we are most likely to face descrimination and bigotry, especially when some idiot assumes we are gay or lesbian or transsexual for no other reason then looking a little different then what they expect.
intersex conditions are all based in genetic errors oe due to a response to exposure to drugs. Regardless of the cause, clearly it has been established that Intersex conditions are Medical issues and not social stereotype issues. So please all keep in mind that in my opinon any advocacy for better health care and treatment for intersex patients is a good idea.
This thread contained personal postings of a fourm member's MRIs. After careful consideration, I have deleted the personal medical information (MRIs) that were posted. As the primary forum administrator, I take full responsibility for deleting the material. I believe that personal medical images may be shared through private messages, but are not appropriate for general posting. I have a strong concern that allowing the general posting of medical images would discourage people who do not have similar medical images from posting on this forum. I am afraid that permitting the posting of personal medical images may raise the bar in terms of personal documentation, and discourage posts by people who do not have the desire or financial means to provide similar documentation. I fully agree with the sentiments behind Betsy Driver's old post entitled "Really Beautiful Tits" which shows a picture of birds known as Tits.
Peter
spacegirl
01-06-10, 07:13 PM
I would like to apologize. First to Aseras, for trespassing on his personal boundaries in such an open manner, and for offering opinions on a subject where the subject itself is against forum rules. And then to the other members of this forum, for triggering a chain of generally confrontary responses which have led to a hostile atmosphere and been painful to the gentle sensibilities of all. And to the administrators here, for angering them while they waited perhaps too long for these apologies.
Not to worry, my apologies are genuine. And I am a very fast learner from my mistakes. You need not to be concerned about any future repeats of this from me.
I hope that the atmosphere here will heal soon, and that kindly conversations may return.
... now where did I leave that red pill? ...
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