I'm NOT a man and I'm NOT a woman and I'm NOT an It... I just AM.

[MorForIt]

Until now I have not been able to communicate with others similar to myself. I wish I had found this forum years ago. Thank you for all the hard work and sacrifice it took to create it. :grouphug0

I really hate it when I am classified as being part of the GLBT Group. It is not that I think they are perverts or misfits or that they do not deserve to have the same rights as others. It is just that my issue is NOT sexual preference or JUST Gender Identity. It is Biological, Chromosomal with LOTS of Gender Identity Issues.

At first, before I found out I had extra internal parts during an emergency surgery I had in China while trying to earn forgiveness from "GOD" for my secret thoughts of wanting to be female since the age of 4, I thought I was a Transsexual. Finding out I had a couple of kinda ovaries and a partial uterus caused an uproar with the small Chinese Mission Hospital. Years of self-hatred disappeared. I finally knew why I had carried those thoughts since childhood. That surgery was 18 years ago. I started living as my gender of choice ten years ago after a chromosome test and walking into the Social Security Office with my medical records from China and had my gender changed from male to female without any additional surgery. My whole life has been a nightmare until just now, this month.

My father confessed to me that I was born "different" 8 years ago during my final visit with him. He didn't say anything more about it. I finally knew why both my mother and father treated me so very different than the others but I will never understand why my father tried to do away with me when I was 4 or why I was so terribly abused by both my parents.

Now at 53, I finally left my bigoted fundamentalist immediate family behind and brought my Chinese born children with me here in the middle of somewhere to start all over free and clear of the past and all it's pain. It was NOT easy but it had to be done.

Again, thank you so very, very much for this open forum.

MorForIt (Male or Female or It.... I am just a person with XXY chromosomes)

[CC]

I finally left my bigoted fundamentalist immediate family behind and brought my Chinese born children with me here
MorForIt (Male or Female or It.... I am just a person with XXY chromosomes)

Hi and welcome to Bodieslikeours :wavey:

From what you've written it would seem as though your upbringing was similar in ways to what many of us experience in our growing years,such as the confusion of something not being quite right, hence an inability to blend with the grander scheme of things.In that regard a diagnoses means everything and brings closure in some aspects yet,can open a pandoras box in others,the latter being more common when an XXy who identifies as dual gendered or, female, or simply something other than male is prescribed testosterone which, as we all know,is the standard treatment for that aneuploidy.To stop that madness and hence the killing of our inner souls,an xxy who seeks antidote such as estrogen, must be prepared to jump through all the hoops and loops that society throws our way and at the end of it all be prepared to accept a diagnoses of Gender Dysphoria :push:

Getting back to your post,you mentioned 'bringing your children with you' can I as if they are biologically yours ? reason being, XXY's are predominantly sterile and I've never heard of one being able to conceive naturally.

Welcome once again
CC

[MorForIt]

I had spontaneous breast growth while I was in China and didn't understand why. I was so very afraid someone would find out my secret of wanting to be female all my life. I tried to stop it by taking Testosterone injections at a Chinese hospital.

After my surgery for the colonectomy and the removal of what female parts I had I couldn't take it anymore and returned to the U.S. and went to the local Cancer Center for evaluation. Apparently the testosterone injections had caused my prostrate to get extremely large and it was recommended that I go on an estrogen regiment which certainly increased my breast growth even more so.

All this time I was going crazy because I did not know what to say to my family. Years later and after 2 years of therapy, both medical and psychiatric, I finally broke down and announced to my family I just had to be female and told them about what happened in China. That's when my father told me I was born different but never went further on to explain and my mother went into denial that I was even her child. Funny thing... I look just like her.

As for my Chinese children. I have had the eldest since he was six, the second one since he was 4, and the third since she was one. To me, they will always be mine.

[MorForIt]

Oh, yes..... I have been diagnosed with XXY Syndrome and Gender Dysphoria. Don't you just love it!!! :doh:

Why can't we who were born "multi-gendered" just be normalized as the other two genders without all the discrimination, bad looks, and undeserved hatred or having been labeled as having a "syndrome" or being "Dysphoric" because we choose a gender other than what we were labeled with at birth? :confused2

[galens47]

Welcome to BLO,

I hope to live in a world where we can be who we are without societal stigma.

Abuse and ill-treatment for following our path is unfortunate and unnecessary, we have it hard enough without the extra burdens of "medical intervention".

Thank you for sharing. I look forward to reading your posts as they materialize.

Cheers,

Galen/Juniper
47XXY/PAIS

[Kailana]

Welcome to BLO Morforit.

Just saying hi and what not.

Just to help some others understand what might be possible, when it comes to XXY ie klinefelter's the actual anatomical developement ie what actually developes can very depending on other variations within the chromosomal compliment of those cells. Ie developement can very if some cells are SRY positive and others are SRY Negative, and while still really rare, there at least are a few XXY females who have had children all naturally as women. <--they were sry Negative but still had that good old 47XXY karyotype which can be confusing when you haven't heard about it.

So Morforit, I welcome you to BLO as a friend and am doubly blessed to hear you have a family and are happy. I am glad you have found BLO it can be a great place to share thoughts and feelings and to help provide some wisdom to others when they are in need of it.

[Aseras]

Hi Morforit.

I think in many ways, that's how I identify as well. I consider myself asexual. I don't really fit on either side. I'm not masculine, but not feminine either although I do lean more towards more socially accepted female roles. I'm the domestic one in our household, I do all the cooking and I take care of the "kids" ( our dogs, closest thing I'll have ).

I wish you the best of luck, It sounds like you've made it rhough the difficult parts already, no need to justify yourself here.

[MorForIt]

Thanks, everyone.

I have to confess, I did "Father" a child way back in my youth and she gave birth to my Grandchild who was born with an extra chromosome two years ago. My daughter will not explain my Grandchild's condition other than that and she calls me a freak and blames me for her child's health issues. I am so very, very heartbroken over this. :broken_he

[CC]

no need to justify yourself here
Hi Aseras

you know there was a time when the old guard wouldn't let people in the door here at BLO unless there was a confirmed diagnoses of something relating to intersex,sadly it seems as membership participation has dwindled down over the years,that same protocol no longer applies.

Speaking of which,I had a quick look at your BIO and apart from an undescended testicle and shadows of something else,for the life of me I fail to see exactly what your intersex condition is,I've obviously missed something but,but, but,please don't explain because as you've stated above 'there's no need to justify yourself here'

[MorForIt]

I will post the citation of these quotes in the next Reply when I have reached...
"You are only allowed to post URLs to other sites after you have made 5 posts or more."

"Men with 47,XXY in all their cells are highly unlikely to ever have children naturally. Advances in assisted reproductive technologies (ART), however, are assisting in overcoming their fertility problems."

"Those who are mosaic for XXY syndrome and have some cells with the usual 46,XY complement may be able to father children unassisted."

So that people understand how I had "Fathered" a child here is a bit of my story. I do not mind sharing it on this Forum as I do believe it may help someone who may have gone through some or part of what I have or is presently experiencing similar situations. From what I have read on this site, there are those who genuinely care about people as I do.

I am a Mosaic XXY.

I had always wondered why my Grandfather favored me over all the other grandchildren he had. I was tall and very thin for my age and had large hips. At my Grandfather's deathbed (1972), he asked me if I was married yet and I was only 15 at the time. In 1974 my parents had arranged a marriage between me and my mother's best friend's daughter. My response was to marry whom I pleased. I married a local 16 year girl where I was in 1975, Germany.

My parents had forced me to drop out of school (I had just turned 17) and joined the military under the "Buddy System" with my brother after he had gotten into trouble and was court ordered to join the military or go to jail. He was 18. I finished basic without passing the Physical Training Test because as the Unit Commander said, “I am going to make you a man and keep you in the military." I had failed the Army's Physical Training Test 3 times from the lack of upper body strength and had been sexually assaulted while in basic training. During the assault my older brother heard my screaming from the bay next to mine came running, removed the attacker from on top of me and beat the heck out of him. With all this I should have been released from service, however, this was all during the "Vietnam Era" Army.

My first wife had just turned 16 and I was only 17 years and 6 months old at the time we married. She gave birth to a "Down syndrome" (DS, also called Trisomy 21) male child with Spinal Biphida (Myelomeningocele) a year later. We had never used birth control. My son also had the Brain the size of a dime (hydro cephalus (water head)) according to the researchers at the Mainz University Hospital in Mainz, Germany after his autopsy. He died at 27 days old. This was in 1976. Everyone blamed me for his birth condition and death and I never knew why. I finally forgave myself after receiving therapy at the USF University Clinic in 1999. I cried almost every day when I laid down to sleep at night for 25 years over his death.

After my wife divorced me 2 years later, I lived with another woman for 2 years (again never using birth control) and she gave birth to my daughter 9 months later after we split up. In other words.... after 2 years of NO birth control she became pregnant. I asked her to have an abortion because of what happened to my first son and we broke up over it. At that time and still now I have never shared that reason with her. I have told her that "It was because she decided not to marry me and I didn't want a child that I couldn’t be with or be forced into paying child support for." That was 31 years ago. I mentioned that daughter previously in a Reply in this Thread, That daughter had my Grandchild who was born with an extra chromosome.

There is so very, very much more to the story..... especially when I was forced to leave the Marines during basic training for “Medical Reasons” and not knowing why. I stood before a board of 5 Marine Doctors while they asked me about my past medical history. This was after I had spent a day in the Emergency room for an accident and after x-rays. I could not find a job as we were going through a recession at the time in 1981 and the Marines were the only service that would take me at the time. The Army would not let me extend my service contract in 1977 for some unknown reason even after 3 years of honorable service.

So.... My opinion of those who say XXY Syndrome individuals are always mentally challenged or cannot father children or do not pass the condition on to an succeeding generation or even to skip a generation are almost as hardheaded as those who want to deny we exist or are a "Creation from Sin" or "Born of Satan." If GOD was an "All knowing GOD" then why are we excluded from the Bible?

[MorForIt]

"Men with 47,XXY in all their cells are highly unlikely to ever have children naturally. Advances in assisted reproductive technologies (ART), however, are assisting in overcoming their fertility problems." - http://www.genetics.com.au/factsheet/fs31.asp

"Those who are mosaic for XXY syndrome and have some cells with the usual 46,XY complement may be able to father children unassisted." - http://www.genetics.com.au/factsheet/fs31.asp

[CC]

My opinion of those who say XXY Syndrome individuals are always mentally challenged or cannot father children or do not pass the condition on to an succeeding generation or even to skip a generation are almost as hardheaded as those who want to deny we exist or are a "Creation from Sin" or "Born of Satan." If GOD was an "All knowing GOD" then why are we excluded from the Bible?

Hi once again MorForIt

You mentioned you were xxy mosaic thus you'd most probably have a better chance of naturally conceiving a child than a non mosaic and although I've never known that to be the case,it doesn't necessarily mean its not possible and if you've achieved this well,then kudos to you.

With regards to being mentally challenged,would you believe many of us are and experience shortcomings in areas of memory,concentration,problem solving,as well as reading,linguistic and verbal comprehension.Of note in recent times is 'mentally challenged' is no longer used by parent groups and medical bodies to describe it,preferring instead,people with 'cognitive disabilities'

Given that all xxy's are sterile (excluding some mosaics)the chances of 'passing it on' are extremely rare,indeed of the one xxy mosaic I'm aware of who succeeded with assisted pregnancy,he has told of the many tests preformed beforehand to make absolutely certain the child did not carry the aneuploidy,from what I recall,his wife went on to have twin girls.The other side to that would be a lady friend of mine in northern Europe who's husband is xxy and her attempts to have an assisted pregnancy,she reported when her husband had the painful testicular biopsy the doctors found only two live sperm which,much to their disappointment was not enough to proceed with the program.She herself went on to have a baby through donated sperm.

As to your last point regarding the bible,friends tell me we are indeed mentioned and mentioned with pride (http://www.fredsbibletalk.com/eunuchs.html)

CC

[MorForIt]

As to your last point regarding the bible,friends tell me we are indeed mentioned and mentioned with pride (http://www.fredsbibletalk.com/eunuchs.html)

CC

Thank you for this particular URL. I read Matthew 19:12 over and over again as even while I went to Seminary we never talked about the concept of "a eunuch from birth." Matter of fact, in all my Bible studies, I never caught on to this as referring to the Intersexed. It had always seemed to me to be about those who could not get it up or could not have children. Thank you for your insight.

As for my Life History... It is what it is and if it can help someone who reads it so be it... If not, then that is okay with me. After all it is what happened to me and I only share it so that it may be of help to someone.

I leave no clue as to who I am or where I am presently living so I do not reap the glory or any negativity from my sharing it. I believe in solitude now and wish no further contact from anyone who wishes to bring me or my family any further harm or problems with Children and Families because they think I am Gay or of the Transsexual kind and make FALSE REPORTS as they have so many times over the last ten years.

My history is what it is, take it or leave it. It's only there to help another who may have had a similar situation within it's context.

[CC]

If you're on facebook,look me up as '_ _ _ _ _ _' I'd be delighted to be your friend.

CC

[MorForIt]

CC[/QUOTE]

If you're on facebook,look me up as '*******' I'd be delighted to be your friend.

CC

I would love to be friends, however, then you would know who I was and my anonymousity would be lost. Thanks for the invite just the same. I am not dissing you. I am just keeping to what I have posted. Thanks again. :regular_s

[CC]

Not a problem and although my intention was never what you stated above, I totally understand where you're coming from and sincerely wish you well in life.

[MorForIt]

Not a problem and although my intention was never what you stated above, I totally understand where you're coming from and sincerely wish you well in life.

Please... as I wrote,"I"m not dissing you," I really do not believe you would mean any harm or disrespect so please post up as you will. I believe in free speech. I only want to remain anonymous and try and be of help to others as I know what it is like to be all alone in my thoughts and fears and absolutely no one to confide in or share with who would not pass some sort of judgment upon me. I believe in live and let live and judge no one.

Peace and love. :beer:

[CC]

Peace and love. :beer:


Likewise :gulp:

[MorForIt]

I have been told since I was 22 or so that I should write a book. Even therapists have mentioned this to me. As mentioned before, I wish to remain anonymous and I only share this to maybe be of help to someone or even to show how science has not even touched the vastness of variations in the human genome.

I wish only to get my story out on this Forum and before my hands are unusable. I do not wish someone to make a study of me anymore like some have in the past during my confused and innocent times in my life. Thank you.

I know this all seems impossible; however, it seems everything about me is or has been impossible to most everyone except those who know me through the experiences they witnessed or who have seen the photos or read the records I keep from where and how I grew up and for all the things I have accomplished in my life and for all my medical history.

"… Detecting Language Problems Early … If their son's speech seems to be lagging behind that of other children, parents should ask their child'' pediatrician for a referral to a speech pathologist for further testing …"

This is a symptom that I had a serious problem with and had to go a speech therapist all during elementary school for. Since I was always a motor mouth and unable to keep in my seat, I had practiced over and over again the exercises I was given during class constantly getting myself into trouble with my teachers.

"...As a group, XXY boys tend to suffer from depression, principally because of their scholastic difficulties and problems fitting in with other males their age...."

Do I need to say anything about this one? My friends in elementary school were all girls even though I had been raised a boy. I was very tall for my age and had a very large butt.

"...Sudden, angry changes in mood are typical of depressed people..."

I was always angry and I never knew why at the time.

"...there is no evidence that XXY males are any more inclined toward homosexuality than are other men..."

I have never considered myself a homosexual. But, I did think I was like Renee Richards for many, many years and secretly thought of myself as a Transsexual until I had that emergency surgery where they did the Quasi Hysterectomy as the surgeon explained it. I had an American Baptist Missionary Surgeon do the surgery as explained earlier in a post.

"...The vast majority of XXY males do not produce enough sperm to allow them to become fathers … "
"...However, no XXY male should automatically assume he is infertile without further testing. In a very small number of cases, XXY males have been able to father children..."

Yes, I have "Fathered" and it has also been explained in earlier posts.

"...XXY males have a slightly increased risk of autoimmune disorders..."

I will list some of the many, many things I have been diagnosed with in the next post.

"… XXY males with enlarged breasts have the same risk of breast cancer as do women-roughly 50 times the risk XY males have..."

For those with breasts like mine. ( I am a C cup.)

Citations:
Klinefelter Syndrome XXY Males
International Birth Defects Information Systems
http://www.ibis-birthdefects.org/start/klinefel.htm
Understanding Klinefelter Syndrome A guide for XXY Males and their families
Robert Bock Office of Research Reporting, NICHD - August 1993.

[MorForIt]

For those who may scoff at what I write about myself and my experience... it is more of a "multi-gendered" issue I believe I have, however, since I must live in a gender role according to our society then I prefer to be labeled female. Or if I am a Pseudo-Hermaphrodite then I would like to be labeled something like Female Pseudo-Hermaphrodite XXY Mosaic rather than Male Pseudo-Hermaphrodite XXY Mosaic.

At the end of my postings, I have one more to go, please chime in with your opinions as what you would label me since you are the people who live out this nightmare as I do. Thank you.

If my terminology is not up to date, please enlighten me.

If you disagree with a possible diagnosis, they were the facts given to me by doctors and therapists throughout my life from 1957 to 2010.

Some terms most certainly do not stand up to today’s terminology or scientific evidence. Forgive my lack of knowledge, ignorance so be it and the continual confusion of what I know or what has been put to me. Thanks for understanding.

MorForIt ( Male or Female or It.... I just am)

[The Female Eunuch]

Hello MorForIt,

I'm intrigued that you say you are XXY and had some female parts inside. I understood that people with XXY were born with normal male anatomy (though not necessarily standard male hormones or psychology).

cheers,
Caroline

[MorForIt]

I will let people in the know answer the how and whys as I really am ignorant as to WHY DID IT HAPPENED TO ME. I really do not know and I ask GOD almost every day why I had to live this curse and go through so much pain. I'm really am not a bad person at all to have deserved a life of pain and discrimination. Most likely, none of us are .

I am NO expert on Intersex conditions, therapies, or anything else Intersex. I am only sharing what happened to me and what I was told. It is of absolutely no value over than that.

I had forgotten to mention with the depression the many; many times I had to save myself from suicide attempts. I started at 12 years of age and I stopped doing that after the last attempt when I lost a daughter of mine after her birth and that was in 1982. I decided to give myself to “GOD” after drinking and otherwise myself into oblivion. That’s when I went to study Theology to be a Minister or a Missionary.

Let's see what I have mostly been treated for in the order as they happened:

Delayed Intellectual, Speech, and Language (I went to a Speech Therapist all during Grade School. The teachers felt sorry for me I guess and I was so much of a class disruption they kept passing me up to the next grade even with class grades being 35 to 45% for everything on my report card and passing in elementary school was 75%. So much interesting things to say, however, this will suffice. I still have problems with repeated and switched words and phrases and using the wrong word even though I knew what word I wanted to say or write. I have to use MS Word to compose before cutting and pasting things around places.)

Undervirilization (Apparently, I have the mildest degree of undervirilization… only a slightly small penis with hypospadias (I have the scare where they repaired my Urinary Meatus (opening).

I was allergic to milk and to wheat products as a small child and was very small and sickly according to my mother.

Delayed Motor Skills (I walked, ran, hit very strangely and people would laugh at me or kids argued about me being on their team and I had problems picking things up as I remember it. I would also have exceedingly bad leg cramps. I couldn’t pass the Army’s Physical Training Test because I had absolutely no upper body strength. I couldn’t pass the Marine Corp’s Physical Training Test either and was put into Remedial Training until I had my “accident” and they x-rayed me and put me out. This all was explained previously in a post.

Nocturnal Enuresis (Bedwetting until 17 and had surgery in a Chinese hospital for “Urinary Abnormalities” a couple of years after the “Quasi Hysterectomy. I couldn’t speak any medical words in Chinese and they spoke very, very little English there.)

Hormone Replacement Therapy (Both Testosterones (most of my life off and on) and Estrogens the last ten years)

Hypertrophic, Erosive Lichen Planus (Topical Skin Scabs/Ulcers) supposedly due to stress and the lack of sleep.

Major Depression

Major Anxiety Disorder

Chronic Pain

Pelvic Floor Myalgia (Chronic pain in the perineum area)

“Spontaneous Breast Development” (found out to be because I had oestradiol in my blood sample and I was put on Testosterone injections at the Chinese Hospital. With a Mammogram I was told I had breast tissue. After stopping the Testosterone injections for a year and then going on Estrogens as explained in a prior post I started having breast milk leakages until I stopped Estrogen treatments 2 years later. That’s another funny story.)

Diverticulitis (Out pockets along the Colon Wall, this is what the Colonectomy was for.)

Pseudo-Hermaphrodism (The congenital condition in which a person has external genitalia of one sex and internal sex organs of the other sex. What was described to me at the time was Pseudo Ovaries with a very small Uterus with no Vagina after that emergency surgery in 1992. The surgeon would not get any more into it at the time because I was under sedation and he had to leave to go and do more surgery at the next hospital. I never saw him again. I brought these medical records home with me.

Chronic Irritable Bowel Syndrome, (Diarrhea all the time)

Gender Identity Disorder changed to Gender Dysphoria (Basically being unhappy with my assigned sex)

XXY Syndrome (Mosaic) A few years later after the Quasi Hysterectomy and after I returned to the United States

Levator Ani Syndrome (Chronic pain in the butt)

Orchiectomy (the removal of the testicles. The Veterans Administration doctors, I am a Vietnam Era Veteran stated in another post, thought this was important because of my high chance of Testicular Cancer which my younger brother had gone through. They had offered to remove my phallus (Penis), however, I refused at the time because I wanted to have reconstructive surgery which they laterv said they would not do and I am so sorry I didn’t because with my 3 children (explained earlier) we have only been just able to survive and can hardly make ends meet. )

Peripheral Neuropathy (Terrible numbness, tingling, and stabbing pains in my arms and hands and legs and feet)

Being treated for possible Multiple Sclerosis (Off and on severe cramps in my all my extremities and chest, back, and neck)

Gastroesophageal Reflux Disease (regurgitation of the stomach into the throat)

Osteoarthritis (Thumb joint now has Heberden’s nodules which are filled with mucin, a gel-like material. Mine is painful. As the nodules get older, they harden and become bony.)

And a whole lot more that were more or less false diagnosis. The ones listed above are my SOME of my real diagnosis.

The V.A. Doctors have treated me since 2000. I do believe and after 10 years of frustration with blood tests, X-rays, ultra sounds, examinations, therapies, Nuclear Medicine, and V.A. doctors who made me their study and some who were argumentative (ignorant) even when they saw my medical records… I have finally found a doctor who is really; really nice and said to me after my first visit with her … she went home and studied up on my Intersex Diagnosis and my associated issues so that she could better help me out. Now that is awesome.

That's my story. Take it or leave it. Go ahead and discuss it. It is all so terribly true and I and my family had to live through it all. I ask you kindly not to call me untruthful... I have had enough of that with some of my therapists in the past who knew nothing about Intersexuality at all. I again leave any technical questions on how and why to the experts as I will not answer them because honestly I do not know.

Peace and Love,
MorForIt ( Male or Female or It.... I just am)

[M-A]

I was allergic to milk and to wheat products as a small child and was very small and sickly according to my mother.
Interesting in light of the following:
Diverticulitis (Out pockets along the Colon Wall, this is what the Colonectomy was for.)

Chronic Irritable Bowel Syndrome, (Diarrhea all the time)

Levator Ani Syndrome (Chronic pain in the butt)

Being treated for possible Multiple Sclerosis (Off and on severe cramps in my all my extremities and chest, back, and neck)

Gastroesophageal Reflux Disease (regurgitation of the stomach into the throat)

Osteoarthritis (Thumb joint now has Heberden’s nodules which are filled with mucin, a gel-like material. Mine is painful. As the nodules get older, they harden and become bony.)
All these can be caused by intolerance to grains. I highly suggest you try removing all forms of grains and beans from your diet, if only as a trial, for, say, three or four weeks. See if it helps with any current remnant of these issues.

(Other things it may cause: slight tremors, eye fatigue, body temperature fluctuations, edema, all manners of cardio-vascular diseases and complications, feeling lethargic during the day, degeneration of spinal discs, severe drying-up then loss of hair, deformed dental arches and club feet during childhood, and then some)

[MorForIt]

Interesting in light of the following:

All these can be caused by intolerance to grains. I highly suggest you try removing all forms of grains and beans from your diet, if only as a trial, for, say, three or four weeks. See if it helps with any current remnant of these issues.

(Other things it may cause: slight tremors, eye fatigue, body temperature fluctuations, edema, all manners of cardio-vascular diseases and complications, feeling lethargic during the day, degeneration of spinal discs, severe drying-up then loss of hair, deformed dental arches and club feet during childhood, and then some)

Wow! Thank you so very, very much!

I have removed all grains from my diet for about 2 years. Unfortunately, you are right and every time I eat any grain, even if in other forms other than whole grains it does not matter, I'll have IBS. Since removing ALL forms of grains, my IBS is so very much better.

Beans don't seem to give me trouble. I will give it a month without beans and see what happens.

Thank you more than most will never know.

Peace and Love,
MorForIt ( Male or Female or It.... I just am)

[MorForIt]

If you have a problem with slightly gross things then please do not read this.

The reason I have been as honest as I can be is because I may not have very long (I just do not know) and I just needed to share where there are others similar to myself if not considerably identical.

I been in the hospital twice this past summer. Once with Anaphylactic Shock for eating some baked deep frozen chicken drumsticks with some sort of flavoring solution injected into them and the other for a heart bundle problem. I also have Diabetes and 2 "tumor-like cysts" that they are watching in my liver.

I am on a near No Carbohydrate Diet and I cannot seem to be able to eat any fiber or I have extremely bad "Diaper Rash" from defecation. I have Osteoarthritis so I worry about all that protein and I do know a diet high in Plant Matter is what I should eat if I didn't have such a "Diaper Rash" all the time. The only time I do not get a diaper rash is when I eat constipating foods.

Dietitians here have no answers for me. Please, chime in with some helpful info if you are knowledgeable about how I may better my health issues. Thank you so very, very much.

Peace and Love,
MorForIt ( Male or Female or It.... I just am)

[ISM17]

Hello all,

Wow, tearing up. Thank you all. To meet and read about not only others like myself but also around my mature age. OMG, thank you all so much. I have been lost so long and now to read I am not alone. With respect. Thank you.

[MorForIt]

Quoted myself: "I have finally found a doctor who is really; really nice and said to me after my first visit with her … she went home and studied up on my Intersex Diagnosis and my associated issues so that she could better help me out. Now that is awesome."

I am so very, very, very upset......

I received a letter from the V.A. Hospital advising me that I have just been transferred over to a different person as of this month. I am so very upset because I finally, after all my life, found a DOCTOR who would treat me with some degree of respect.

Now, they have transferred me to a Nurse Practitioner instead of a doctor. I'm calling tomorrow to see if I can be placed under the care of my previous doctor.

Wish me success. Thanks.

[Kailana]

I read Matthew 19:12 over and over again as even while I went to Seminary we never talked about the concept of "a eunuch from birth." Matter of fact, in all my Bible studies, I never caught on to this as referring to the Intersexed. It had always seemed to me to be about those who could not get it up or could not have children. Thank you for your insight.



you might want to also read ISAIAH 56: 4-6 as some also find them relavant.

[galens47]

Greetings,

This is what popped into mind with for your symptom list. I'm not a Dr.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coeliac_disease

I had chronic diarrhea until I removed lactose.

Thanks,

Galen/Juniper

[Ryles]

I received a letter from the V.A. Hospital advising me that I have just been transferred over to a different person as of this month. I am so very upset because I finally, after all my life, found a DOCTOR who would treat me with some degree of respect.
I hope they let you transfer back. Do you have any idea why they did that? I hope you can make it clear how important it is that you see a doctor you're actually comfortable with. That is a HUGE deal.

(also, I hope you don't mind my asking, but it seems like you don't go by he or she or it. Are there any pronouns you do prefer or do you rather just be called by your name?)

[MorForIt]

CC,
galens47,
Kailana,
Aseras,
The Female Eunuch,
M-A,
ISM17,
and Ryles;

Thank you all so very, very much for all your insights. I really appreciate good positive feedback. Thanks.

I hope they let you transfer back. Do you have any idea why they did that?


Previously, there was only one doctor at the V.A. Clinic I am assigned to and that one doctor was not able to keep up with all the patients assigned to her. They gave her newest patients to the Nurse Practitioner. Unfortunately, I am one of her newest patients.

I hope you can make it clear how important it is that you see a doctor you're actually comfortable with. That is a HUGE deal.


I tried, however, I am dealing with the V.A. System and they told me that she was more than qualified to help me with my problems and if she had doubts or questions about something... she would consult with the doctor or give me a consult to the V.A. doctors at the V.A. Hospital in our district.

Certainly, this did not make me feel any better about the whole thing.

(also, I hope you don't mind my asking, but it seems like you don't go by he or she or it. Are there any pronouns you do prefer or do you rather just be called by your name?)

In real life I would never go by a user name. The user name is fine for me on this forum. Thanks for asking.

Peace and Love,
MorForIt (Male or Female or It.... I just am)

[Ryles]

I tried, however, I am dealing with the V.A. System and they told me that she was more than qualified to help me with my problems and if she had doubts or questions about something... she would consult with the doctor or give me a consult to the V.A. doctors at the V.A. Hospital in our district.

Certainly, this did not make me feel any better about the whole thing.
I can understand that. *sighs*
Can you try to get ahold of the doctor directly and tell her how important it was to you and see if she can do something? If nothing else, she might be able to be proactive about making sure the person you're seeing now is educated and respectful.

[MorForIt]

And, it never stops. In the other V.A. hospital I was contently passed from one doctor to another and always had to explain myself and hardly ever was I able to get to my health issues. The ignorance, the lack of education or acknowledgment of the medical field to include pseudo-hermaphrodism or hermaphrodism (Intersex or whatever is politically correct nowadays) in the curriculum of health care workers.

The whole time I had with my new Nurse Practitioner was spent explaining to her what I was and what was meant by this or that in my medical records. All she wanted to do was see for herself.

She would NOT listen to me about my health issues. She just kept asking me about my intersex condition and finally said she wanted to put me on Insulin for the Diabetes and that I could go and have corrective surgery to make me look normal down there. Times Up.

I am glad she wanted to know more and was curious, however, URRRRRG! I'm in so much pain most of the time; I am nauseous all the time; and I am exhausted.

And, please.... No, I can not change my "doctor" here where I am in the V.A. system.

End of Rant.

[Kailana]

You Might try talking to the Patient's Advocate at the VA hospital. Regardless of the amount of patients your previous doctor was seeing or the Nurse Practitioner has, if she or he is not meeting your needs and you find that last comment offensive you can indeed use his or her words in your favor and get yourself reassigned back to the first doctor. The VA is pretty serious when a patient does make a complaint about the off the hand comments that said NP may not of found as offensive but you did or coud of.

Since I have been dealing with the VA since 93, my local VA has gotten rid of several doctors that Veterans have made complaints against. One GP and One Psychiatrist. The first had many complaints from a good portion of veterans that had been assigned to him. The last was the idiot I had the great pleasure of listening to what he thought he could do to me with his hands, and while my complaint alone didn't get him canned apparently it only took a few other complaints from other Veterans before he was let go and replaced.

You never know what you can get done if you try. Then again alot of my health issues/concerns are ignored so apparently the care here isn't the greatest either.

[MorForIt]

Kailana, or “Sea, Sky” as in Hawaiian or “Flavors of the Pacific” as in Japanese, “Kai Lana.” I think your name's meaning should translate to "Always a kind word with great advice." Thank you so very much for your encouragement. You will never know how much I appreciate it. :smile:

When I was in the Woman's Clinic at a V.A. Hospital elsewhere and didn't opt for the Penectomy during my Orchiectomy because I wanted to save it's sheath and nerve endings to use in future surgery they bumped me "up" to the Men's Clinic. That was 8 years ago. It wasn't until 2 years ago after much frustration with so many doctors that the head of the Woman's Clinic "allowed" me back within its gates. For the last 2 years, in my previous V.A. Hospital, I was given excellent care for the most part while in the Woman's Clinic.

Now, after moving here, my Outpatient Clinic has only the one doctor who sees men exclusively and the Nurse Practitioner who sees ALL the woman and the new male clients that now arrive. The Doctor is only in the clinic for three days of the week and the Nurse Practitioner is there on the other two days. The Nurse Practitioner also works for a Gynecologist. There are so few people where I live in the "Heartland" that even the small Medical Center in the same town 45 miles away only has a couple of doctors. The 3 Medical Clinics around me, within 45 miles, only have one Nurse Practitioner at each one.

I was nuts to move here, however, with only $674 a month and children... this was the only place I could afford to live with my children now that I am disabled. Previously, at the old address they raised my subsidized housing from $360 to $660 a month and that was for a two bedroom apartment with only 674 sq. ft. of space. A two bedroom there normally goes from between $900 and $1300 a month depending if you wanted to live in the local ghetto or on the outskirts of town. We have been trying so hard to relocate close to a V.A. Hospital but with rents exceeding my budget it is difficult. Have you noticed that a lot of the V.A. Hospitals seem to be located nearby Universities where rents are outrageous?

In our previous city, over the last 8 years, we tried to get Section 8 housing but were declined twice after waiting three years for each application. The waiting list in a town/small city about 180 miles from here with a V.A. Hospital has a one to two year waiting list.

Even so, I will call the V.A. Hospital my Outpatient Clinic is assigned to and talk to the patient advocate as you have suggested. Maybe, they can get me assigned to the hospital clinics instead of where I am assigned to. It is quite a bit further to travel but if I can get better health care it will be worth it.

Thanks again.
Peace and Love,
MorForIt (Male or Female or It.... I just am) :rose:

[Kailana]

Kailana, or “Sea, Sky” as in Hawaiian or “Flavors of the Pacific” as in Japanese, “Kai Lana.” I think your name's meaning should translate to "Always a kind word with great advice." Thank you so very much for your encouragement. You will never know how much I appreciate it. :smile: :rose:

Ahh well I think I am a tad too attached to my Date of Birth. Concordant Wind and apparently have a fondness for making random noises people associate with words. Meaning= I am just full of wind and like sharing whispers of intelligence with others.

Ok now fun over, I would actually being a tad bit on the carefull side. If your dealing with such a small VA Hospital likely an outpatient or satelite clinic then your options may be limited. But you are always within your rights to ask to talk with a VA Patients Advocate and who knows it may help you get back underneath the previous Physician/Dr or whatever she is.

I must say though, you really must be in a small town for so small of a hospital. Walla Walla here is a tiny city, pop 30,000 but is really the only thing around in the SouthEastern part of Washington State. If anything serious pops up I am usually told to go the one of the local ER's rather then them. Or if imaging other then US and colonoscopies are being performed they are usually done through one of the local hospitals. Need of a specialist of any kind and your either sent to Seattle, Wa or to Portland, Or. 4 1/2 hour drive one way to Seattle or 4 Hours to Portland. Gets annoying.

Ok so I am curious now to just how small of a town are you talking about.

[MorForIt]

Ok so I am curious now to just how small of a town are you talking about.

My town: Less than 30 I am told. (only 9 houses)
County Seat: 670 (1 Nurse Practitioner in Local Clinic)
Nearest Local Medical Center or V.A. Outpatient Clinic in next county: Population: 10620 / 45 miles away
Nearest Hospital: About 80 miles away (still, very few beds)

Okay, I will only say we moved here from Tampa, FL five months ago.... Nuff Said.
There is NO T.V. unless you get Satellite T.V..
There is only Dial-up Internet Service
Helicopter Emergency Care or the ambulance in which case you would be dead before you arrived an 1 hour and 20 minutes later because of the hills and curves all over this place and the lack of training in my opinion. I went to a local festival a while back and the EMT couldn't seem to be able to take my Blood Pressure or get my Pulse at the time. What a joke!

People still operate and act like it is the 1960s. Extremely CONSERVATIVE with Baptist churches on almost every corner. I was a Self-Supporting Independent Adventist when I was over seas as a Missionary. The rest of my family are Fundamental Baptist.

You should be able to figure out where I am now given all these hints. LOL

If you haven't figured it out in a week or so.... send me a message and I may tell you.

By the way... I graduated from Moses Lake Community College a long time ago.

Peace and Love,
MorForIt (Male or Female or It.... I just am) :rose:

[steve/lisa]

Hi Morforit, Hi sweety my name is lisa,and we have alot of things in common,A whole lot,Kailana told me about you this very day,and thought i should come back on here to read your stuff,we seem to have similar medical problems and a sorta similar past problems,I am a 46XX/46XY "Chimera" but in my case the VA med center knows this and treats me VERY well,as do my private DR's also treat me well and respect my choice's in my life.
I to demand my privacy,but some know me well,kailana is one of those that do,as I have been to her home last summer,everyone now knows me as Lisa,which is who i am,I have been awful sick these last few months and am just now feeling better after my last surgery,I hope and pray for you to find the help you need and to have a speedy recovery from whatever they do to help you,If you feel the need to talk to someone that has gone threw and am going threw some of the same problems we seem to share please feel free to e-mail me at my yahoo.com e-mail listed after my name in the members list,maybe i can help you understand some of the things your going threw,maybe not ??,but if we don't try to help each other out no-one else is going to.So you have a wonderful day O.K,and hang in there...

[MorForIt]

I am a 46XX/46XY "Chimera" but in my case the VA med center knows this and treats me VERY well,as do my private DR's also treat me well and respect my choice's in my life.


"Chimera"... in Homer's Iliad, "a thing of immortal make, not human, lion-fronted and snake behind, a goat in the middle." I am glad, in spite of your physical appearance, the V.A. and other Doctors treat you well. LOL. My sons and I are into mythology as you may be able to tell by my location and knowledge of the "Chimera." Is the "Chimera" your definition of yourself or another label of XXY?


I have been awful sick these last few months and am just now feeling better after my last surgery, I hope and pray for you to find the help you need and to have a speedy recovery from whatever they do to help you, If you feel the need to talk to someone that has gone threw and am going threw some of the same problems we seem to share please feel free to e-mail me at my yahoo.com e-mail listed after my name in the members list, maybe i can help you understand some of the things your going threw,maybe not ??, but if we don't try to help each other out no-one else is going to. So you have a wonderful day O.K,and hang in there...

Thank you so very much. Until this site, I have felt so extremely alone. I hope and pray to whomever, or whatever higher power that you may have a speedy recovery. I have sent a note to you and wait for a reply. Thanks.

Peace and Love,
MorForIt (Male or Female or It.... I just am) :rose:

[Kailana]

umm actually Your location still baffles me as your in OHIO? now if you had said you were in Washingon State then I could of named a bunch of tiny communities and towns.

I must say that I would think living in such a small town, would have way too many challenges just fighting boredom. But if your happy there, then God Bless.

[XXYGuy]

:grouphug0

I really hate it when I am classified as being part of the GLBT Group. It is not that I think they are perverts or misfits or that they do not deserve to have the same rights as others. It is just that my issue is NOT sexual preference or JUST Gender Identity. It is Biological, Chromosomal with LOTS of Gender Identity Issues.

I don't care where people classify me, where I classify me is all important. But as for saying such people don't have any or ought not have any rights, well I can't agree with that, all people have rights.



At first, before I found out I had extra internal parts during an emergency surgery I had in China while trying to earn forgiveness from "GOD" for my secret thoughts of wanting to be female since the age of 4, I thought I was a Transsexual.



Well if you are XXY and pheotypically male at birth, regardless of any internal structures, you will be Transsexual if you transition. After all there has only been 2 that I'm aware of phenotypic females born who have XXY sex chromosomes.



Finding out I had a couple of kinda ovaries and a partial uterus caused an uproar with the small Chinese Mission Hospital. Years of self-hatred disappeared. I finally knew why I had carried those thoughts since childhood. That surgery was 18 years ago. I started living as my gender of choice ten years ago after a chromosome test and walking into the Social Security Office with my medical records from China and had my gender changed from male to female without any additional surgery. My whole life has been a nightmare until just now, this month.



I'm so glad you found happiness.




Now at 53, I finally left my bigoted fundamentalist immediate family behind and brought my Chinese born children with me here in the middle of somewhere to start all over free and clear of the past and all it's pain. It was NOT easy but it had to be done. Again, thank you so very, very much for this open forum.



So you're female & fertile or did I miss something?



MorForIt (Male or Female or It.... I am just a person with XXY chromosomes)

I have XXY sex chromosomes too, but I don't regard other people as having less rights than me no matter what their sexual orientation happens to be, so I guess it's not genetic for me to hold those ideas.

I also know that even us XXY's only have one X chromosome active in our cells just like any other XX or XY person. Weird eh, makes me wonder why some XXY d says they're more feminine than XY's.

[XXYGuy]

Hi and welcome to Bodieslikeours :wavey:

an xxy who seeks antidote such as estrogen, must be prepared to jump through all the hoops and loops that society throws our way and at the end of it all be prepared to accept a diagnoses of Gender Dysphoria :push:

Getting back to your post,you mentioned 'bringing your children with you' can I as if they are biologically yours ? reason being, XXY's are predominantly sterile and I've never heard of one being able to conceive naturally.

Welcome once again
CC


Oh boy have you got a lot to learn! :rolleye11 I found an XXY who says he developed KS after fathering two sons naturally and developing KS after a bee sting, then to top it all off transitioned to female claiming he'd always felt more female than male and this additional X made everything solid as to why he was the way he was. Yeah he was also a cross dresser, this guy has it all!

Fathering two sons though NATURALLY, that's a worlds first! :rolleye11

The big problem with all XXY';s who say they feel more female or feminine than XY's is that only 1 of their X's is activated in their cells, so genetically speaking they're no different to any other XY.

Oh well back to the drawing board. :confused6

[kai.tics]

hey everyone, i'm Kai. . . i found recently im intersex. my whole life i was raised as girl, but always felt like and wanted to be a boy. when i turned 18/19 i went transgender and started my life as a guy. it seemed right and completely natural. recently, i've found out i'm actually intersex. XY female. so my body is female, but my chromosomes are male. which seems to explain everything. in a way i feel much better. im not gay, i feel attracted to who i should. but my body isn't right. which is how i've always felt. its a relief in a way. more issues and questions though also. i dont know much about this. so any info would be nice. im told i was born with a micro penis, which at birth was changed to a clitoris and vagina. i also thought my parts were normal. . . when you have surgery as a child, does it end up looking basically normal?

[Peggy]

Kai tics wrote,

when you have surgery as a child, does it end up looking basically normal?

No.

(Unless the surgery was very minor.)

Peggy

[kai.tics]

Kai tics wrote,


No.

(Unless the surgery was very minor.)

Peggy

i know that all the outward genitals aren't there. like there is no inner labia or clitoral hood.

[Kailana]

just a friendly hello to Kai.tics and a hardy Welcome to BLO

[kai.tics]

thanks

[XXYGuy]

hey everyone, i'm Kai. . . i found recently im intersex. my whole life i was raised as girl, but always felt like and wanted to be a boy. when i turned 18/19 i went transgender and started my life as a guy. it seemed right and completely natural. recently, i've found out i'm actually intersex. XY female. so my body is female, but my chromosomes are male. which seems to explain everything. in a way i feel much better. im not gay, i feel attracted to who i should. but my body isn't right. which is how i've always felt. its a relief in a way. more issues and questions though also. i dont know much about this. so any info would be nice. im told i was born with a micro penis, which at birth was changed to a clitoris and vagina. i also thought my parts were normal. . . when you have surgery as a child, does it end up looking basically normal?

I reckon you ought to have more questions than anything, such as micro-penis is no big deal that's easily fixed with Testosterone injections. And if you were XY sex chromosomes with this micro-penis you'd need to have no testes too to be considered a worthy candidate for barbaric genital surgery soon after birth.....and then your micro-penis would not be described as a 'penis' but a 'phallus' because that's how Drs make distinctions between true conditions of disordered sex differentiation and mere malformations of fetal growth.

Just a couple of observations.

[kai.tics]

I reckon you ought to have more questions than anything, such as micro-penis is no big deal that's easily fixed with Testosterone injections. And if you were XY sex chromosomes with this micro-penis you'd need to have no testes too to be considered a worthy candidate for barbaric genital surgery soon after birth.....and then your micro-penis would not be described as a 'penis' but a 'phallus' because that's how Drs make distinctions between true conditions of disordered sex differentiation and mere malformations of fetal growth.

Just a couple of observations.

i dont have testies or ovaries. at this point i dont have any form of "penis" anymore, but my clitoris reacts like a penis according to my doctor.

[kai.tics]

and my body doesn't convert testosterone.

[kai.tics]

also, i just learned of all this about 2 months ago, so i am still learning. if my lingo isn't proper please excuse me for taking what the docs say and wording it how i understood it.

[peaceandparty]

question:
where is the disorder in the natural fact that we were born naturally different to the "normal"?

i would see the disorder being within the medical community that label us normal people with having a disorder!

many many intersex people are not infertile
and function no different to other people

therefore not all intersexed people could be labelled with a DSD

its lovely to have others think for us
because some people dont like thinking for themselves
the medical establishments understanding of non normal people seems to suit people that dont feel normal

i feel completely normal with not feeling man and not feeling woman
i feel a mixture of both
my writings and thoughts do not stand alone in reality
but also in reality,most people who think like me dont want to take on the world with trying to get these points through


most humans want to fit in
thats why most end up accepting the easy labels
but its not as easy as some people are men and some people are women

we are all living creatures and we change our behaviours throughout life,evolving with our emotions
why do we as people feel the need for restricting some of our evolving characteristics by needing to mention what sex and attached traits we are!

again,reminding people that we did not label ourselves correctly
because its not as simple as a two tiered sex system

please discuss......

[peaceandparty]

also, i just learned of all this about 2 months ago, so i am still learning. if my lingo isn't proper please excuse me for taking what the docs say and wording it how i understood it.

feelings can get lost in lingo

you only found out months ago
well,enjoy yourself truly with the thoughts you will have now
and its always interesting to get answers like that at any time in your life

helps find the missing puzzle pieces

all for one and one for all

[MorForIt]

I was also criticized previously for my outdated language.

Is it rather incongruous that in a multi-generational, multi-ethnic, multi-languaged world society of computer and high tech communication that we often suffer from a lack of proper lingo?

Could it be that not all people have knowledge or experiences in such intersex issues or that they may be from a previous generation or countries that use an outdated vocabulary list?

Could those that are “in the know” retain a spirit of understanding and just not criticize and give positive interaction in their responses?

Please do not reply to this posting. Thanks.

[peaceandparty]

Hi Morforit.

I think in many ways, that's how I identify as well. I consider myself asexual. I don't really fit on either side. I'm not masculine, but not feminine either although I do lean more towards more socially accepted female roles. I'm the domestic one in our household, I do all the cooking and I take care of the "kids" ( our dogs, closest thing I'll have ).

I wish you the best of luck, It sounds like you've made it rhough the difficult parts already, no need to justify yourself here.

aseras
hi
i am wondering whether you mean that you are asexual in conjunction with not fitting on either side of the male female divide?
because for me and most,asexual is someone who has little or no desire for sexual activity of physical intimacy mostly
second remark,friendly of course(though i am positive my name is continuously blackened even though i am one of our best people for support online and off)
household chores and cooking are associated with female activity technically
but some of the best chefs in the world have penises
and every BODY has to clean their own environment
so i highly disagree with these old traditional stereotypes
because its just not true

on the topic heading my
www.gavancoleman.com
page shows my online statement that:
i am not "m"(male)
i am not "f" (female)
i am "i" (intersex)

and technically because of gender restrictions and expectations of our societies
i would and could be called intergendered too

i love these sorts of posts
where it is explained by others,not just myself,that there are definitely more than two genders and two sexes