I would like to date a Hermaphrodite, can anyone help??

[bullseye]

I would like to date a Hermaphrodite (Female body type) and make a go at a lasting relationship but do not know where to find a starting point.
I done extensive searches for site & forums but the only thing that I have been able to find are support forums similar to this one.
If I am looking in the wrong place can someone PLEASE point me in the right direction.
TIA.

[louisev]

that's because human 'hermaphrodites' dont exist, Bullseye. Unless you're into fantasy body modification. Physical intersex conditions are medical conditions of great seriousness and cause those of us who have them tremendous suffering, discrimination, condemnation and mistreatment, starting with our parents and extending into the medical community and beyond. I suggest if you wish to learn more about Intersex you start with "Intersex in the Age of Ethics" by Alice Domurat Dreger. It is standard reading in academia now and features essays by intersex persons and medical practitioners on the legal, ethical, and medical outcomes of being born intersex.

[bullseye]

Don't exist?? I have seen my share of them on video and I do not me transsexuals or pre op males eventually looking to have their privates inverted to create a vagina.
I am talking about a Female body in every sense of the word but also having a fully functional penis. Their testicles are usually located internally but still functions as any normal males does.
I admit I do not know any of the very technical terms and for that I do apologize but I have tried to research that avenue and was still overwhelmed on the technical wording that I came across.
I in no way want to offend anybody but really would like an avenue in which I can travel to find the type of individual I care to get acquainted with.
I am not asking to have anyone spend tons of time educating me on this but somewhat of a start would be nice I guess.

[galens47]

Greetings,

This is not a site that offers what you are looking for. The creature you describe does not exist in natural biology, that is not to say they have not been surgically altered.

Please read the book Louisev provided. You ought to be able to obtain it from your local library.

You may have luck on fetlife finding what you are looking for.

Cheers,

G

[M-A]

Bullseye, from your description, the term you are looking for is 'shemales'. That's a term often used to describe non-operated male-to-female transexuals. They are not intersexed ; or if a very few of them are, their intersex condition is not what made them that way, rather it was an extensive medical (and artificial) treatment, including but not limited to complete hormonal replacement therapy. You might find many among the "sex-worker" population.

For one, there cannot be a "fully functional penis" without male primary and secondary characteristics, which completely preclude having a "female body", because in order for the penis to function there must be sufficient testosterone production AND effect. The estrogens necessary for developing breasts are antagonists to that testosterone, meaning they counter its effects.

What I'm trying to explain here, is that the reason there is no such thing in natural biology as you're seeking, is because humans end up somewhere on the continuum between male and female, and not 'partly' on one end and 'partly' on the other.

[louisev]

Bullseye, you know those veterans support sites for amputees who survived getting their arms and legs blown off by IED's in Baghdad and Afghanistan and who group together to help each other to recover from the trauma, pain, social stigma and financial hardship of being a casualty of war? That's sort of what this site does for those who survived getting their genitals 'normalized' and their hormones 'adjusted' and their sex assigned to them or their hormones artificially regulated because they did not develop according to the standard phenotypes of male and female but somewhere in between. Your fetishistic sexual goals are just about as welcome on this SUPPORT site for intersex persons and their families, as an amputation fetishist would be on a veteran's amputee support list.

Think about it. Think about it for a long time.

[bullseye]

Well as I said I meant no disrespect towards anyone in any way. I knew how intersex and therefore thought of "Hermaphrodites" would group together in such sites and not be out "advertising" in such a manner looking for dates. That is the exact reason I started hear with my search hoping to do it in a respectful and hopfully learning process.
From the way "M-A" explained things that does make sense. However in the animal or maybe reptile world there are species that are true hermaphrodites, that is why I always thought it was possible in humans as well.
If nobody objects, I would like to post a few links to porn related clips so that you may see what I am talking about. Then maybe someone can explain EXACTLY what it is I am seeing.
I am very familier with Shemales and that is NOT what I am seeking. That is just a male that has either had implants or is taking hormone pills to start the conversion process.
If anyone objects I will not post them.
I will wait for someones "go ahead" to do so.
TIA...

[galens47]

Please do NOT post porn.

Thanks,

Admin

[M-A]

I too know what you mean and exactly what kind of videos you're thinking of. What you see in those, really are non-operated transexuals. If you research the subject of sex reassignment medecine, you will learn that:
- many transexuals do not get genital surgery once they have transitioned, because it is expensive, risky, implies taking drugs for life, can forever impair sexuality and, above all, because they do not want to part with their parts for whatever personal reasons (keeping options in case they want to have natural offspring ? Also not everyone thinks one needs a vagina to be a woman)
- sex reassignment is not limited to HRT (hormone replacement therapy) and implants, there also are many surgical alterations that can (and often are) done, on larynx (adjusting the voice), brows (sanding down of the bones), jaw (same), hair follicle implants on the scalp to reverse male pattern balding when needed, etc. One example course of sex reassignment I researched had no fewer than 14 different surgical interventions, and genital surgery is but one of them (and as mentioned above, it is not always done).
- in the cases of sex reassignments done early in puberty, the transgirls develop purely feminine bodies and no male secondary characteristics, as well the genital surgery is delayed for the sake of the patients, sometimes permanently if they wish so. That's also what you can find in the videos. Not all 'shemales' have been 'adult males'.

Sorry, what you see in those videos is the product of modern medecine, of the talent and knowledge accumulated by international experts on medical sex reassignment over decades. It does not happen naturally, and has only tangential relation to intersex conditions.

[joker]

Sorry, double post.

[joker]

I feel like there's a bit of hostility toward this guy. I don't think he had any bad intentions. And its not really fair for people to expect him to know much about intersex conditions when many intersex people themselves do not thoroughly understand it.

I don't either, to be honest. As someone without a lot if prior knowledge, I can't totally understand some of the replies. Am I right in thinking what you are telling him is that you don't get fully developed feminine bodies with a fully developed male penis? And that a natural occurrence would be more like a kind of ambiguous appearance?

[louisev]

ignorance is no excuse, Joker. You found your way to Bodies Like Ours, there is an information and personal stories forum at www.bodieslikeours.org, and an explanation of the medical conditions that are deemed 'intersex.' Instead of spending your time spouting opinions based upon guesswork, try reading the forum. There is a LOT of information there.

[joker]

Why are you being so hostile to me?
My opinion is that people on this forum were kinda being jerks to a guy who did not mean any harm, as insensitive as he was .

The guesswork was trying to make sense of the replies that seemed to me to be condescending and probably less concise than they probably should have been, if the purpose was to clear things up for the original poster( bullseye?)
I mean, it didn't really seem like people wanted to foster understanding in him as much as chastise him.

Anyway, I joined this place to see if I could learn more about my own condition hopefully from understanding and welcoming people in a similar position, and interact with non-judgemental folks.
I'm sure there's plenty of good info here, but I'm much less convinced that people are understanding and welcoming. You might not see it as a long time member, but in general, not just in this thread, there's an undercurrent of negativity. It makes me rather just hunt for information on the web by myself rather than become part of the community.

This is not a personal attack, so don't be defensive. Take it as a perspective you might not have considered.

[louisev]

hello Joker,

As is so often the case, the written medium of communication on sensitive and complicated topics is sometimes lacking in the empathy and human element, and that is why those of us who are interested in fostering support for our fellow intersex 'citizens', whether members of BLO or not, treat this forum as an informational one and private mail as a personal communication forum. "Out here", so to speak, is like the pedestrian and traffic zones of a city and there you will find spambots which we ban on sight, spam mail by well-meaning but misdirected evangelists of various kinds, which we delete on sight, fetishists, which we warn once they let us know that they are indeed fetishists.

I am intimately familiar with fetishists since I married one long before I knew what and who I was, and what and who HE was; even though I should have known from other evidence. So I track the profile far earlier than others. On BLO we have had a variety of paraphiliacs come to the forum, and it very definitely impedes the mission, as it were, when they attempt to make claims of intersex conditions, or seeking dates with intersex people, based upon delusions and desires of their own. I may not need to point this out but the primary source of abuse and mistreatment of intersex children comes from intimate family members, parents, siblings, doctors and therapists. So I ask you, is it worth the risk of offending an innocent and well-meaning fetishist who respectfully raises his hand to stand in line to meet a mythical shemale in order to make a more suitable environment available for the support of those whose very birth heralds a childhood of unspeakable cruelty, abuse, suffering and shame and whose adulthood is marked by various and sundry freak-seeking offers by unravelled people with mental delusions?

I think you know how I have answered that question. Lurk if you prefer, nothing prevents you. I am one of the moderators here and have my own hangups. We have three, including the owner/administrator of the board. One of us three has concurred with you and so therefore I offer a more objective explanation as to why I replied as I did. I hope that gives you a better understanding of our little effort here without adding to the heap of conflict and challenge.

[joker]

All good, louisev. I appreciate the response.

[zanaelf]

I would like to date a Hermaphrodite (Female body type) and make a go at a lasting relationship but do not know where to find a starting point.
I done extensive searches for site & forums but the only thing that I have been able to find are support forums similar to this one.
If I am looking in the wrong place can someone PLEASE point me in the right direction.
TIA.

I do apologise this is the wrong place to go "dating" since this is a support group and very sensitive issues are discussed here in medical situations. First of all the person you have in mind has ambiguous genitalia ? In a profound sense where the male and female genitalia are more or less balanced. Such people do exist but they are extremely rare and in most cases one of their two sets may be reproductive and the other not. I have seen the videos you had searched for, one includes two people who have ambiguous genitalia, as I found and studied them out of pure research. Due to the discrimination and lack of understanding and fetish crazed nutcases most of the people tend to stick to themselves in this regard, and would not even go to an on-line dating service since most of them have experienced abuse from a day to day basis, more than 70% of the people who had been born with ambiguous genitalia have been mutilated at birth. The discrimination and abuse that goes around on people like this is unbelievable and unspeakable, its like gay people trying to live in the middle ages or even a transsexual person trying to live in the middle ages.

To the others, there is a video out on the internet that has two people who both have ambiguous genitalia, who both live in the female role had done a porno movie in the 1980s, and this video has been doing the round on torrent sites. This is how I assume yhis person got intrested and wished to look for a genuine "hermaphrodite" and they are fully aware of shemales aka "futa" as discussed on the hentai foundry forums where I got banned from ...

To bullseye, this is not the place to go dating and secondly you wont find people being open about themselves easily due to the discrimination and abuse. So my advice for you is if you a hentai artist, do art that helps awareness not exploits them...

Thank you

[Summer]

We're not like you think we are. Any person with a female body but fully functioning penis is not intersex. If their body had enough estrogen to create a typical vulva it would not be able to create a fully functional penis because that takes a lot of testosterone to create and estrogen would cancel out its affects. Even intersex with 4 gonads do not look like that. I agreed once to met a woman with an intersex fantasy and yes she was disappointed I did not look like her fantasy even though she swore to understand that intersex were really not like the porn movies and shemales transexuals. Its not what you think it is and sorry to have to say you would be disappointed to know the truth of us.

[louisev]

well put, Summer and Zana. The "herm fetish" and "gender bender" fetishists have built up a myth and mystique about 'hermaphroditism' - which does not exist in human biology. Unlike claims made by some - even those who say they have medical theory behind their claims of hermaphroditism - that we are somehow just like the hermaphroditic fish species of clownfish or that 'nature produces hermaphrodites - human biology does not produce hermaphrodites, because the DNA of the species involves a complex of three things: chromosomes, genes, and steroidogenesis - the making of sex steroids and precursor enzymes from the adrenopituitary system and the gonads. Due to these very recent discoveries (a Nobel prize for discovering the role of the adrenal cortex and corticosteroids was granted to pioneers who discovered Congenital Adrenal Hyperplasia at the Mayo Clinic in the 1950's, after some of us intersex people were born, we now know that the terms "true hermaphrodite" - otherwise known as gonadal dysgenesis or mixed gonadal dysgenesis in current medical literature - is not a hermaphrodite at all and in fact may in many cases be an individual who is neither fertile nor sexually functional. And the 'pseudo - hermaphrodites" are now known as those with adrenal enzyme insufficiencies that lead to ambiguous genitalia or mixed features. And THAT isn't hermaphrodites either.

There are no human hermaphrodites unless they are surgically formed by urologists and cosmetic surgeons doing a particular form of surgery. And those of us who had infant genital reassignment (I did not, personally) do not generally recommend this as a way to meet people.

[galens47]

Summer & Louisev,

I moved your discussion to General Health Section.

Thanks,

Galens47

[Anis789]

Hi folks! Long time! I look forward to reading this thread on PC kinda straining on the eyes on mobile.

intersex is a sex created by nature. It is not acondition, disorder etc

Personal i cant stand pervs praying on ussexual variants, do we not suffer enough from the ignorance, negligence, excusion, ridicule and discrimination of society?

We aint Greek Mythological creatures, we are humans, butchered we are to adhere to society's supposed norm of binary sex male n female. We are either a mix of the binary sexes or neither. We are shoved under trans without any empathy: our anatomical sex is intersex as described in biological science occuring in plants n animals n yes humans too! Intersex is not medical, its nature n they wish to eradocate us world relgions n medical folk defy nature! If we want putting back to our natural beings: as transexuals we must have a unhappiness about our anatomical sex but they bloody bitcher us to thier understanding of the binary anatomical sexes - we have no human rights we are not seen as hunan at birth but made male or female, just to fool us into believing we have human rights. What rights....we are butchered as infants!

Admin please message me i need rid my surname on old post as people can find me online. Anyone from UK pleaae please get in touch....we are beautiful as nature intended society inucludes medical n academic world both of whom see us as test subjects, people who need fixing. We are not disorders conditions we are human beings....fed up of those who seek sex from sexual variants, we werent born to be sex objects...wana date us or a herm then go about it as you would with others - get to know of each other, seems like just after sex but i'll read thread before i jump to this conclusion

Stay strong, lets not be wiped out, :) x

[Peter]

I am sending you a PM about your concerns regarding an old post.

Peter

[Anis789]

Peter! I remember you! How you been, much has changed. Cheers

[Peter]

Hi Anis,

I found the old post, and deleted your surname. I am doing well. This year is the 10th year that Bodies Like Ours has been in operation, and I can say that after years of being openly intersex, that I am much more comfortable with myself on a day to day basis. Hopefully, in the future, all intersex people will be free to openly identify as intersex, if we choose to be open. In my life, that is the most important choice. I appreciate your work for the rights of intersex people.

Peter

[zanaelf]

Hi folks! Long time! I look forward to reading this thread on PC kinda straining on the eyes on mobile.

intersex is a sex created by nature. It is not acondition, disorder etc

Personal i cant stand pervs praying on ussexual variants, do we not suffer enough from the ignorance, negligence, excusion, ridicule and discrimination of society?

We aint Greek Mythological creatures, we are humans, butchered we are to adhere to society's supposed norm of binary sex male n female. We are either a mix of the binary sexes or neither. We are shoved under trans without any empathy: our anatomical sex is intersex as described in biological science occuring in plants n animals n yes humans too! Intersex is not medical, its nature n they wish to eradocate us world relgions n medical folk defy nature! If we want putting back to our natural beings: as transexuals we must have a unhappiness about our anatomical sex but they bloody bitcher us to thier understanding of the binary anatomical sexes - we have no human rights we are not seen as hunan at birth but made male or female, just to fool us into believing we have human rights. What rights....we are butchered as infants!

Admin please message me i need rid my surname on old post as people can find me online. Anyone from UK pleaae please get in touch....we are beautiful as nature intended society inucludes medical n academic world both of whom see us as test subjects, people who need fixing. We are not disorders conditions we are human beings....fed up of those who seek sex from sexual variants, we werent born to be sex objects...wana date us or a herm then go about it as you would with others - get to know of each other, seems like just after sex but i'll read thread before i jump to this conclusion

Stay strong, lets not be wiped out, :) x

Well written :-) your writing makes me smile :-) and feel at ease, especially when "condition" or "disorder" or even disease is used. Nature itself is capable of self modification when studying the theory of evolution, whether its assisted/manipulated/forced evolution or darwinism(natural selection). It is known in the theory(s) that organisms changed physical attributes, which actually gave them the capacity to survive where those without the changes phased out after a few generations.
Namaste
((^_^))

[anner]

Shoot, and I just wanted to say "hi" ... Brand new to your AWESOME Forum and reading posts ...
Perhaps Bullseye needs to "look within" and discover her/him/rich-and-ful-combo self.
People are usually seeking themselves, even when they don't consciously recognize who they are.
Love,
Anner.