A Dark Day

[Meresa]

Seig Heil to the new Nazi Pope. :pissed-2:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0%2C%2C2089-1572667%2C00.html

As if sexual minorities and women weren't marginalized enough under John Paul II.

I weep for my Church today. May God have mercy on us all.

[Jolinn]

Meresa,
Thats not very fairly on your part just because his opinions & views differ from yours.

[Meresa]

Just what is not fair on my part?

The man is a hard-liner. He was a Nazi soldier for 2 years. He only "deserted" in April of 1945 when the Third Reich was already in ruins, as most of the German army was also doing at the time.

John Paul II was also a hard-liner. He marginalized gays, TS's, IS's, etc. declaring us ineligible for marriage or religious life. He upheld the church's asanine restrictions against contraception and the ordination of women. He looked the other way w/r/t the pedophelia within the clergy for decades.

This new Pope has already promised more of the same.

I can only call things as I see them. The burden is on the new Pope to give me something else to see.

[MelissP]

Just what is not fair on my part?

The man is a hard-liner. He was a Nazi soldier for 2 years. He only "deserted" in April of 1945 when the Third Reich was already in ruins, as most of the German army was also doing at the time.

John Paul II was also a hard-liner. He marginalized gays, TS's, IS's, etc. declaring us ineligible for marriage or religious life. He upheld the church's asanine restrictions against contraception and the ordination of women. He looked the other way w/r/t the pedophelia within the clergy for decades.

This new Pope has already promised more of the same.

I can only call things as I see them. The burden is on the new Pope to give me something else to see.


I must agree, sadly. It seems so outrageous, so dangerous. If I was ever tempted to convery to christianity, I know this would be a major turn
off.

I have a hefty amount of italian ancestry in my family tree, who came
to north america a long time ago. They left behind their beloved and families. I should have distant cousins living there now, but if anyone of them survived, the connection has been lost. One day the Hitler monster made a phone call to the Duce monster, and they all disappeared over- night. With a little help from their friend the pope, whoever it was back then. God only knows what they'd have done to me if I'd been available.

shudder. shudder. And apparently Arnold came from a pro-fascist family,
or so I've heard. Considering some of the beliefs he's expressed, and the
position he's in, I really wish I could emmigrate to another planet. Bleh.

Mel

[Betsy]

The Catholic Church wonders why they have falling membership numbers in the US. This is a good example of why that is.

This man is the person who has led the church to the point of calling gay people evil. He is not a friend of women, he is not a friend of gays, and god only knows what he thinks about those with intersex---probably that we are poor souls to be pitied and then cut.

It is a good reminder why I am no longer a part of a regime that thinks I am evil and not worthy of being a full person. Today, one of the talking heads on the news described him as being to the right of hardliner conservatives. That is pretty scary.

[Betsy]

http://www.villagevoice.com/blogs/powerplays/archives/000856.php

Popewatch: Here Comes the 'Enforcer'!
The smoke was white, and so is the winner: Contrary to weeks of speculation, the princes of the Catholic Church didn't pick an African or Latin American to head their billion-plus congregants. Nor did they choose a moderate, as some pope watchers had suggested. Instead, on only their second day of voting, the cardinals selected Joseph Ratzinger to be the next pontiff.

Ratzinger apparently rallied the scarlet-robed voters with his sermon Monday, before the first vote, in which he scorched the secular world. "Adult faith is not one that follows tides of trends and the latest novelties," Ratzinger said, according to the Daily News. He added: "Relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along by every wind of teaching, looks like the only attitude acceptable by today's standards."

Tough talk from a tough man. For years Ratzinger has been known as the "Enforcer" for his crusade against Church dissidents, including those who flauted the Church's rules on ordination of women. And as head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith, Ratzinger has enacted John Paul II's conservative interpretation of Catholic doctrine for more than 20 years.

It's not a news flash that the Catholic Church is not a big fan of homos. But as Sister Miriam at St. Francis of Assissi Middle School used to say, it's not just what you say, but how you say it. And in his 1986 "Letter To The Bishops Of The Catholic Church On The Pastoral Care Of Homosexual Persons," Ratzinger said it like this:

Although the particular inclination of the homosexual person is not a sin, it is a more or less strong tendency ordered toward an intrinsic moral evil; and thus the inclination itself must be seen as an objective disorder.

Hey, they kill evils, don't they? No! That's bad. "It is deplorable that homosexual persons have been and are the object of violent malice in speech or in action. Such treatment deserves condemnation from the Church's pastors wherever it occurs," Ratzinger wrote, sounding very reasonable.

"But," he continued, "the proper reaction to crimes committed against homosexual persons should not be to claim that the homosexual condition is not disordered. When such a claim is made and when homosexual activity is consequently condoned, or when civil legislation is introduced to protect behavior to which no one has any conceivable right, neither the Church nor society at large should be surprised when other distorted notions and practices gain ground, and irrational and violent reactions increase."

Yikes. But 1986 is ancient history, back when the Red Sox were losing instead of winning World Series. Perhaps Ratzinger mellowed with age.

Uh, no. In a 2004 memo to clergy called "Worthiness to Receive Holy Communion," he wrote:

Regarding the grave sin of abortion or euthanasia, when a person's formal cooperation becomes manifest—understood, in the case of a Catholic politician, as his consistently campaigning and voting for permissive abortion and euthanasia laws—his Pastor should meet with him, instructing him about the Church's teaching, informing him that he is not to present himself for Holy Communion until he brings to an end the objective situation of sin, and warning him that he will otherwise be denied the Eucharist.

Well, that's harsh, but at least the Church is consistent on the killing thing: It's bad, be it a fetus, a brain-damaged invalid, a convicted killer or an enemy in war. Right?

Wrong. "Not all moral issues have the same moral weight as abortion and euthanasia," Ratzinger wrote. "For example, if a Catholic were to be at odds with the Holy Father on the application of capital punishment or on the decision to wage war, he would not for that reason be considered unworthy to present himself to receive Holy Communion."

He continued: "There may be a legitimate diversity of opinion even among Catholics about waging war and applying the death penalty, but not however with regard to abortion and euthanasia."

So there you have it: Homosexuality is an inherent evil, war is debatable, and Joey "the Stinger" Ratzinger is the new pope. Alleluia, alleluia.

Posted by Murphy at 02:07 PM, April 19, 2005

[Peter]

It makes one want to consider becoming a Buddhist. I had a talk with a friend the other day, and ideas about the "such ness" of the world, and the Buddhist place for the diversity of intersex and trans people are really appealing ideas. I still wish for personal salvation. Arthur Rimbaud's "A Season In Hell" was my favorite work when I was a teenager, so it left a lasting impression on me, even thought I was not raised in a religious household. I don't think that today is really much worse than most days for the last two thousand years. There was a reason for hundreds of years of religious wars in Europe. Ever since the Church got caught up in the Roman Empire, maintaining institutional power has been at the forefront of the Church.
I think about religion and gender. The old patriarchy, with all its temporal power, in the Church and other institutions, is trying to teach and uphold traditionally inflexible doctrines. I believe that the Goddess - the feminine aspect of Being beyond gender, will overcome these one sided and limited views. Often the night is darkest before the dawn.

Peter

[Dana Gold]

Dark days indeed, not just on the Pope issue, but personally....I had my purse stolen from me at a shopping center parking lot this past Sunday. I've been dealing, since Monday, with the laborious hassle and extreme stress of that ....but, now back to BLO to comment on this thread.

First of all, the Pope ideology may be a "different opinion" but a dangerous one, as exemplified and spoken of by previous posters. Tolerance of intolerance is not a good thing. This man's agenda is clearly to "correct and control" and I regard him as an autocrat with intolerance towards many of humankind......he is not a humane religious leader....and there are many Catholics (including those who accept gays, trans, and intersex) who are very concerned and are opposed to his "agenda and beliefs", as well as other people.

It makes one want to consider becoming a Buddhist.
My own experience and sharing, and not prostletizing (pushing/promoting religion

The "ways of the world" many years ago prompted me to do just that after "experiencing" some other religions, although I do not "put down", nor call inferior, other religions, for they are a part of world humanity, However, I prefer my practice of Buddhism because number one: it actually has helped me to overcome and change for the better my own life and of others (if it doesn't work, why do it?, eh?)....and it regards ALL human life as "sacred", and if you don't "believe" you will not suffer being "barred from heaven" Heaven and hell can be right here on earth; and, no , we don't worship Buddha, for all human beings have inherent Buddha within, which means "enlightened human being; to clarify:....and I chant Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo as a primary practice within a lay believers group and not within a "priesthood"...and as you can see, I have plenty of hair, not bald like stereotype Buddhists.

Basic tenet: (excerpts from links below

"Buddhism teaches that all things have a unique beauty and mission. Every person has a singular mission, his or her individuality and way of life. That is the natural order of things"

Attaining enlightenment does not require us to become anything other than a human being; it is recognizing our own true value and worth exactly as we are.

http://www.sgi-usa.org/buddhism/buddhismtoday/bc023.htm

http://www.sgi-usa.org/buddhism/

Anyway, enough, and I would want it understood that I am , by relating my practice of Buddhism, sharing it with you all NOT swaying anybody to believe. Especially those who have known me and the many hardships I have overcome in the last few years, and basically my whole life...and , through what I have shared, been able retain not only my happiness, but achieve a better quality (and quantity) of life, as well. Thank you for listening....now I must go and complete more of the tasks of making right and protecting myself from "the fine mess" that's been created by the theft.

Dana

[Fee]

Hi Everyone,

Just wanted to add my shocked and horrified feelings about the new pope's appointment...When I asked my (Anglican) vicar what he thought he said he felt this was a 'buffer' appointment between the old Pope John Paul papacy and another new pope who may be more liberal in approach - and as this Pope is now 78 he may only be around for another 5-10 years.

Even I wondered if I could remain Christian with such a draconian leader. When I spoke to a young woman (Roman Catholic) in a coffee shop yesterday about the appointment, she surprised me by saying she was very happy about it, that the Vatican had always to appoint someone with staunch conservative views because the Catholic Church and society needed very firm boundaries...after all she said, if we stray and disobey the rules He will always forgive us anyway, but at the top the rules MUST be in place. This explained to me why my faith is Anglican, because I would rather have a more liberal leader whose rules were more humane and therefore easier to attain. What is the point of having such impossilby high standards that we only end up breaking the rules and being forgiven through confession....????

Fee

[Peter]

Hi Dana,

I am sorry to hear about the theft of your purse. I know that one of my biggest fears is that someone would get hold of both my driver's license and Social Security card. Identity theft is such a big business these days.

Thanks for the Buddhist links. I have to be honest. I like the intersex and transsex Buddhism of Dana much better than the Buddhism of Nichiren. I once read a biography of Nichiren and was put off by the fanaticism of the man. Something about being too attached to the repetition of the mantra. So, when I read on the web links that you posted that each person has a "specific role" to play in society, or that a "plum" cannot be a "cherry", I cannot relate to it.

The other day, you gave me what I guess could be called a meditation exercise. You mentioned that I should go mentally deep inside myself, and forget about traditional concepts of gender as a set of external definitions and expectations. You said that I should pay attention to the mental energies of my mind. I tried your exercise, and the results were really interesting. In the beginning, I could not find any solid identity. I know that I shave regularly, but beyond that I do not have a strong identification with being a man. Next, I meditated on women who have emotionally protected me in the past. Near the end of the mediation, I had visions of the feminine aspect of G-d beyond gender, and interesting ideas came to my mind about time and eternity. It was one of the few times that I have ever had a positive thought about myself. Things were quite different than what one might be taught in Sunday school. So...., anyway, I really appreciate your meditation advice.

Peter

[Dana Gold]

each person has a "specific role" to play in society, or that a "plum" cannot be a "cherry", I cannot relate to i
Dear Peter,

In the interest of clarifying the above quote, I do wish to say that the sentence's meaning of specific role is one of individual choice tied into the individual's intrinsic life...in other words, that person's life has worth because it has a purpose (specific role) in life.........that purpose and role are based upon the individual's determination to carry on with fortuitous circumstances and simultaneously change misfortune into better circumstances....the principle of "changing karma"

A plum cannot be a cherrry etc quote (actually a slogan of the LGBT community who are members of this school of Buddhism, which performs same-sex marriage rites):....That intends to mean that each person is uniquely an individual and cannot be "busheled in" with others....rephrased, it means, one person cannot be another ...being oneself, and nurturing one's life is the "specific role" talked about above.....including helping/respecting others in one's environment. however one may, another specific role and related to role of individual Boddhisattava.
Things were quite different than what one might be taught in Sunday school
Reading (or experiencing any of Buddhist philosophy or practice requires thinking differently... "out-of-the-box";..., "applying" existing theology to interpret it, will result in confused and mislead impressions upon the mind of the reader......and I have had that experience myself in the "earlier days".

Your positive experience with the inner self was a small example of "changing present circumstance to positive energy (karma)"....and the mantra repetition (core of this philosphy) is a method of accelerating that change (changing karma), which Nichiren was very "fanatic about" in sharing with others and in refuting existing "authoritian" institutions.... yes, he was a outspoken, undetractable rebel, but so were Martin Luther King (Christian) and Mahatma Gandhi (Hindu), and many other "passionate" social activists.

I, myself, wouldn't be doing this, if I knew and experienced, that it had been contaminated by humankind's lies and "correct and control" power manipulations bent on subduing the masses and forcibly "making plums into cherries" (or vice versa) ....a form of "social cloning" with the intent of a New World Order....one does not have to"read the quoters lips" to know what that means for people who are not deemed part of that world.

:whipg:

[Peter]

Hi Dana,

Thanks for your thoughts. I have done some additional research on the Internet. Although I don't know much about the Nicherin school of Buddhism, I have to admire an organization that opposed the imperial ambitions of the Japanese Empire during the Second World War. I quote:

"In 1930, a lay organization was founded by educator Tsunesaburo Makiguchi. During World War II, Makiguchi was imprisoned for refusing to compromise his religious beliefs and resisting pressure from the Japanese government to accept the State Shinto religion, which was used to unify the public in support of the war."

Completely different actions were taken by the present Pope.

Peter

[Dana Gold]

It's not so much the Pope himself that scares me, it's the power he wields over the millions of followers who believe and will assert his ideologies (and also do unto others?) :push: stated below, which I took (copied and pasted) from page 2 of the news article Meresa initially posted.



His condemnations are legion — of women priests, married priests, dissident theologians and homosexuals, whom he has declared to be suffering from an “objective disorder”.

He upset many Jews with a statement in 1987 that Jewish history and scripture reach fulfilment only in Christ — a position denounced by critics as “theological anti-semitism”. He made more enemies among other religions in 2000, when he signed a document, Dominus Jesus, in which he argued: “Only in the Catholic church is there eternal salvation”.


:whatchuta

[Morgan]

Hi

Here in Ireland, it seems that there aren't too many people who welcome Ratzinger's appointment. Most people are just withholding judgement, waiting to see what he does.

"A la carte" Catholicism is pretty much the norm here, even amongst daily mass goers.

Personally, I finally decided I was an atheist last year after reading Francis Wheen's "How Mumbo-Jumbo Conquered the World". No more sitting on the fence.

But I'm kind of interested in Buddhism too - my limited experience of it suggests that it doesn't require a belief in the divine and is more of a way of being than a way of believing.

Peter - I understood 'dana' to be an act of giving, rather than a type of Buddhism.

Morgan

[nimo6211]

I was born and raised a Methodist and my church's stand on homosexuals has always been negative. It however does not deter my liberal mind from exploring and finding out what the truth is. Jesus has always been my mentor and I believe the greatest human rights activist of his time. I believe very strongly and this is evidenced by his unconditional death and resurection that humanity means more than legalistic rules made and interpreted by church leaders to suit their agenda and that is retain manipulative powers over the people.

This, therefore is the reason I remain a christian and would never convert to another belief. It is not christianity itself but how people interpret it that makes it a feast for the sceptics.

I have not been one to take organized christian leadership such as the Vatican very seriously and in the end, it really is our personal relationships with Christ that will count as we are all accountable for our individual actions and the life we lead. Church hierachy is so oppresive!