View Full Version : Seeking intersexed person for interview
Hello folks,
My name is Kim Smith, I'm an anthropology student in San Diego with strong interest and study in gender diversity. I have intersexed friends but for the sake of this project, I feel more comfortable putting out a request rather than approaching someone specifically.
I am preparing a short lecture for a speech class which I've decided to use as an opportunity to inform my peers about intersexuality with a focus on intercultural gender divirsity practices and sexual assignment surgery ramifications. I'm looking for an intersexed person willing to allow me to present a photo of them to my class and give a short interview via email.
The audience I will be presenting this lecture to will be community college students, most of whom have never even been introduced to the concept of intersexuality. I hope that by giving them a face and a brief story that they'll be able to empathize a little -- something that I've found most classroom environments don't offer the opportunity for when presenting the subject of intersexuality. My goal is to let my classmates walk away with some interest in the subject and to challenge their idea of gender.
I hate to say it but for the interest of the speech, I'm looking for a rather androgynous-looking individual or perhaps an AIS individual -- in otherwords, someone whose photo I can show to the class and challenge or confuse their idea of what gender is. Obviously, this is only for the persuasive nature of the speech.
If you're interested, please drop me an email @<hidden> kinbu@<hidden>
Thank you very much for your time!
~Kim Smith
... I'm looking for a rather androgynous-looking individual or perhaps an AIS individual -- in otherwords, someone whose photo I can show to the class and challenge or confuse their idea of what gender is...
Up yours! :pissed-2: You better use your own (probably ugly) face for that.
Miriam
I don't know...I'm thinking maybe any woman or man would suit her fine.
Sunshine1
03-15-06, 10:09 AM
Dear Kim,
Why do you feel that people with intersex medical conditions look androgynous? Androgynous people aren't specific to intersex medical conditions. Please explain what you know about the different conditions ?
Gender Diversity? What the fuck?
Priestess
03-15-06, 10:32 AM
I was thinking that Kim might find more appropriate subjects amongst the trans folks. Or there used to be lists like Sphere, for the community of androgynes. A good question to ask at this point might be how many here have gender expressions as their primary concern?
I remember watching an interview with Annie Lennox, where she provided some good commentary about her thoughts on androgyny. She's kewl 8)
Dana Gold
03-15-06, 11:12 AM
I'm looking for a rather androgynous-looking individual or perhaps an AIS individual -- in otherwords, someone whose photo
I am thinking that many people with androgynous features or an intersex condition and/or trans folk may not feel comfortable having either themselves and/or their picture put on display in order to spur interest in and challenge/confuse society's notion of what gender/sex is or is supposed to be. They've had enough of that in their personal lives. There are many "medical texts" that show "such people" that you can use for your class without having to rely upon persons who may be/have been grappling with painful psychological and/or physical experiences associated with being treated as a "lab rat" or as an object of either curiosity and/or disdain for being "androgynous" or of "mixed sex/gender"
If it's intersex you are wishing to present to your class; a good read would be the book by Sharon Preves : Intersex and Identity; The Contested Self....2. or go to the Intersex Society of North America website for more information: http://www.isna.org/
There you may find a wealth of publications and videos that could suit your research/class needs in regards to people who have been willing to "come out" publicly and tell of themselves in the manner you are looking for. Please be aware that many people here (myself included) have been through a lot of hell with medical, psychological, and/or academic personell (and the "general public!) and may feel averse to participating in and "sharing their lives" in what they may feel to be a "show and tell" and/or a "quasi-clinical" presentation. However, in the interest of educating young people, I do want to wish you good luck.
Take care.
Dana
Sunshine1
03-15-06, 02:10 PM
I remember Community College ....it was fun.
Upon telling guys about my intersex condiiton the response was "Cool and wanna beer? Your cute" I think if I was androgynous then it would of been better and made more sense plus then I would of spent more time in the library.
Guys were much more interested in that this is an adrenal gland condition that you need extra cortisol in times of illness. This might help you caresfoundation.org
Thank you to everyone who replied... I apologize, it seems I've gotten the wrong ideas from my acquaintences and my limited education and self-education. Obviously I wasn't trying to be offensive... and I'm glad I came to this forum because I do want to make this presentation something that an intersexed person could appreciate. I do admit that a lot of my studies/personal interests lie in trans issues which perhaps leaks into my ideas of what makes an intersexed person. And in my studies/interractions with intersexuality I got the idea that it was something that was wished that the general public be more educated about. I also had the impression that many intersexed people (obviously not all, and not inclusive of all types of intersexuality and conditions that lie under its umbrella) had a sense of non-gender -- but I was not in any way planning to sum all of intersexuality that way. I also have a lot more research to do before I give this presentation in a month.
I apologize for the androgene comment -- I was very iffy about even saying it and obviously it was a mistake. I do just want to say that I am not trying to put anyone on display or make a spectacle. Clearly challenging my audience's idea of gender is not the way to go in this speech and with this in mind I am going to rework it. The only reason I was interested in talking about a specific person was for the sake of trying to reach my audience -- my peers, as I'm sure many of you know, have absolutely no ability to empathize or put themselves in someone else's shoes. I hope for this speech to give them some insight into the things that an intersexed person can experience (emphasis on assignment surgery.) I worry that just presenting medical jargon and talking about nameless people will not achieve that. Perhaps this isn't a good idea -- may I ask, does anyone have suggestions or further feedback on this?
The thesis, what I want my audience to walk away with and believe, of my speech was originally that there is more than two binary genders. Would a more appropriate thesis be that gender does not always match the sex that society assigns a person? I'm concerned this sounds too much like it pertains to trans issues which I don't plan to cover but perhaps in a very brief summary which I'm not reconsidering at all.
I appreciate your feedback very much -- as I said, I want to make this speech something that an intersexed person would approve of. Thank you all for your time and my apologies for any offense given. Also, if I'm just completely out of line with this whole subject, please let me know and I'll dissapear.
~Kim
kinbu@<hidden>
Priestess
03-15-06, 02:47 PM
Hello Kim,
Thank you for clarifying what you meant, and I think that since you've come with the intention of learning from us, you might find out enough before a month is over.
I could say that I spent most of my life without feelings of gender and with very little sense of my self, but then I would need to explain that for me this wasn't a good or healthy thing. And I'm thankful to be finding my way out of that void.
Yet, I know you'd find all different answers to that question. We're all very much unique individuals. And that, I think, is the best thing to learn. :wavey:
Dana Gold
03-15-06, 03:14 PM
Clearly challenging my audience's idea of gender is not the way to go in this speech and with this in mind I am going to rework it.
Good move, people get defensive when "traditional notions" are challenged. Your presentation as is takes on a vast, complex area of psychological, medical, and sociological "concerns". Perhaps it would be prudent to focus on one aspect of the entire picture...one that will not invoke sensory overload or be too overwhelming to the student audience.......and one you feel that you really want to do and would be comfortable in doing:
I hope for this speech to give them some insight into the things that an intersexed person can experience (emphasis on assignment surgery.)
In which case, a good starting point would be a "" primer", (i.e., an "introduction to intersex and identity/experience" or Intersex Experience 101).....one gained from these two books (links below)......additionally you may not need to "recruit" any individual ....a difficult task, to say the least, and probably not necessary since you will have established and viable material from these books.
http://www.isna.org/books/lessons
http://www.isna.org/intersexandidentity
As your students are made aware of these by your introductory presentation.... those so inclined may naturally want to check out the material further and ISNA website, etc. The important thing is to present (as you mentioned) lives, not clinical pictures.....of which there already has been too much focus on, disregarding the human aspect.
PS: As a suggestion, no speech...make it an informational "offering".....one from the source.....students hate lectures.
Dana
Sunshine1
03-15-06, 03:15 PM
What the fuck gives you the idea that someone with an intersex medical condition doesn't fit into the binary genders?
People with these medical conditions aren't different than those without them. Sure there are a small amount that don't fit into two binary gender BUT THAT MAY also be stated for those that have NO conditions at all. Gender is a narrow social concept that is subjective based on the culture and time period anyway but what does that have to do with my metabolic endocrine condition? Do you know anything at all about the different intersex conditions?
A sence of non- gendered? how the fuck could you assume that? I tell people I'm intersexed and the reponse is that you don't look intersex ....nope I don't .....Intersexed described externally what the adrenal gland may do to a female babies external genitals without cortisol. Plus lack of cortisol results in not having the ability to fight of physical illness. I thank God for the Cortsione.
You write that your peers have no empathy but you write that you are looking for one of use to "challenge or confuse others" which isn't right because we aren't different from anyone else. Everyone has something but you want to set us up....marginalize us to "challenge or confuse others"...You want to use fucking medical conditions to shock and confuse others? I think you are mean and are looking for shock value. I think it's said that you cut down your peers also because I've meet many CC students that were OK that's your condition and were ok you cool by the way ...could I use your notes for history class ummm yours look better than mine. You ain't into the actual medical condition but people that don't feel part of any gender and those people you can find anywhere regardless of a condition or not.
Each condition is so different ...have you read at all?
You couldn't answer my questions in my first post?
Sunshine1
03-15-06, 04:57 PM
Hermaphrodite was pretty...always with that beautiful hair . I love the Greeks and stories they had to describe conditions that they didn't understand yet.
When it comes down to it these are understandable medical conditions- I know that many don't like the Victorian Doctors but I do and these condition have been studied for generations. My condition of CAH is no different that my thyroid condition. I'm sorry but I don't have the answers to gender that you would hope. I don't see things differently or look different. Yes....when I was born externally it was hard to tell what the hell I was and with Ultra Sounds, Blood Test - the doctors were able to figure out this was an adrenal gland condition with a metabolic disfunction. Surgery that could of waited just a little was done in preperation for menstraul flow which wasn't going to be able to come through the ambiguous genitals that I had. Health reasons ....nothing more or less. Now w. CAH those that have an enlarged clitoris and the parents want that reduced? I will never understand that one but I've never experienced it so what the fuck do I know on the one hand it's just big But really the safest bet would be to ask the person. "Medicine isn't always right but it's forever changing" They fucking raped us in the 70's to figure out more about these conditions -Thoughts of suicide after those genital exams....we're the experts . I enjoy gender all parts of gender and why not? I am refered to in the female gender regardless of what I'm wearing or if my hair is short.
There is a good chance that someone is in your class with an intersex condition and you wouldn't even know it. She would be one of those people that you think has no empathy but really is just trying to get over a hangover, trying to figure out her speech,and also trying to hook up with the baseball player in class.
caresfoundation.org might help you.
prince....ss?
03-15-06, 06:03 PM
We're all very much unique individuals. And that, I think, is the best thing to learn. :wavey:
Priestess, so very true!!!
Kim I am willing to answer any of your questions open forum or not but a picture will not happen with me. I dodge the lens at every opportunity. So perhaps if you ask your questions to an open forum you will get the answers that you are searching for. Perhaps the result you get from mixed opinions would even surprise yourself.
Prince….ss?
What the fuck gives you the idea that someone with an intersex medical condition doesn't fit into the binary genders? Gender is a narrow social concept that is subjective based on the culture and time period anyway but what does that have to do with my metabolic endocrine condition? Do you know anything at all about the different intersex conditions?
I wasn't trying to suggest that I'm under the belief that all transgendered people don't fit into binary genders, I'm sorry if I gave that impression. Also, as I do more research I'm learning that my idea of what intersexuality is was actually rather off. My exposure to intersexuality until the last few months has been from documentaries and also from a few acquaintences -- both of which failed to give me a perspective into the different forms of intersexual conditions. My horizons on the subject were broadened when I started taking a human sexuality class which actually went more in depth into the subject, enlightening me on what intersexuality actually is. Before getting into this further research the only idea I had of an intersexual was someone who had gone through sexual assignment surgery due to ambiguous gender. I had an awareness of intersexuality for several years now but it's only been a month or so since I've started learning about the different intersex conditions.
Also, I'd like to add that the project that I inquired originally about is not for the human sexuality class. It's actually for a public speech class where one of our projects is to give a ten minute informative speech about something our classmates are not likely to know in depth about and I hoped to use the opportunity to both gain more knowledge on the subject and share it with my classmates.
You write that your peers have no empathy but you write that you are looking for one of use to "challenge or confuse others" which isn't right because we aren't different from anyone else. Everyone has something but you want to set us up....marginalize us to "challenge or confuse others"...You want to use fucking medical conditions to shock and confuse others? I think you are mean and are looking for shock value. I think it's said that you cut down your peers also because I've meet many CC students that were OK that's your condition and were ok you cool by the way ...could I use your notes for history class ummm yours look better than mine. You ain't into the actual medical condition but people that don't feel part of any gender and those people you can find anywhere regardless of a condition or not.
I'm very sorry that I came off as though I'm trying to marginalize you -- this thread has made me very deeply reconsider exactly what this speech I'm making is to actually be about. (Sorry for being long winded here but I hope to explain where I'm coming from...) In working on an outline for the project, I've realized that I had to entirely different subjects, especially after talking here. I wanted to inform my audience about intersexuality but my own interest in the concept (especially culturally) of angrogene/third/non-gender ended up rubbing off on the project. And I think that because that was sort of clouding my vision, I was in fact going for a certain sense of shock value because I did want to challenge my audience's ideas of gender. I'm realizing that a speech about that subject is an entirely different speech -- that my speech is not about androgyny or even gender at all but instead about people and health and awareness. I've scrapped about half of my outline, which amusingly enough is exactly what my speech teacher warned us would happen -- that we would likely find that the subject we thought we were speaking about wasn't the subject at all. I think I jumped the gun in asking for someone to interview before doing my in depth research (which I did for the sake of time constraints and worrying about not being able to find someone in time -- now a moot point) but I'm glad I did come here because it's really helped me to prioritize/realize what I should be focusing on and to leave my own subconcious agenda at the door.
Also, as for the subject of empathy... I'm not sure if it's just my school, or my area or what but my classmates on this particular subject have sort of driven into me that they have a lack of empathy. In my human sexuality class the teacher was bombarded by questions like "So are all intersexuals gay?" Many of them believed that intersexual people who'd undergone surgery shouldn't be told until they were in their teens and a rain of people just couldn't understand why both intersexuals and transexuals just couldn't accept the gender they'd been 'given' and make the best of it and voiced as such. I admit though that the individuals in my public speaking class seem much more intelligent and open minded -- my first speech was about being (homosexually) out in the workplace which they lauded me for and when I discussed very briefly the idea of this speech, they were encouraging.
Thank you for taking the time to reply... and thank you for making me think.
~Kim
In which case, a good starting point would be a "" primer", (i.e., an "introduction to intersex and identity/experience" or Intersex Experience 101).....one gained from these two books (links below)......additionally you may not need to "recruit" any individual ....a difficult task, to say the least, and probably not necessary since you will have established and viable material from these books.
As your students are made aware of these by your introductory presentation.... those so inclined may naturally want to check out the material further and ISNA website, etc. The important thing is to present (as you mentioned) lives, not clinical pictures.....of which there already has been too much focus on, disregarding the human aspect.
PS: As a suggestion, no speech...make it an informational "offering".....one from the source.....students hate lectures.
Thank you so much for the links! I actually have a copy of Lessons from the Intersexed and I'm definately going to look into getting the other book.
Haha, I definitely know how students hate lectures... this is for a speech class, but I hope to make mine something more personal, not just more droning. I want my audience to learn about PEOPLE not subjects.
What the fuck gives you the idea that someone with an intersex medical condition doesn't fit into the binary genders? Gender is a narrow social concept that is subjective based on the culture and time period anyway but what does that have to do with my metabolic endocrine condition? Do you know anything at all about the different intersex conditions?
I wasn't trying to suggest that I'm under the belief that all transgendered people don't fit into binary genders, I'm sorry if I gave that impression.
Transgendered???? Sunshine1 wrote about people with an intersex condition and that's not the same as transgendered people. It's quite obvious that you want to use people with an intersex condition for your own agenda, but please don't do that. And even though I have an intersex condition, I'm not an intersexual. It's bad medicine to use a medical condition as a noun.
Miriam
PS. I think you should read this: http://www.ipdx.org/publications/pdf/speaker-handbook.pdf
Transgendered???? Sunshine1 wrote about people with an intersex condition and that's not the same as transgendered people. It's quite obvious that you want to use people with an intersex condition for your own agenda, but please don't do that. And even though I have an intersex condition, I'm not an intersexual. It's bad medicine to use a medical condition as a noun.
Miriam
PS. I think you should read this: http://www.ipdx.org/publications/pdf/speaker-handbook.pdf
Ah!! I'm really sorry, that was a very unfortunate typo. :cry: Long day. I swear I know the difference...
Thank you very much for that link! That is.. wow, extremely helpful.
I... mm, may I ask you a question? I really, honestly don't want to use intersexed people for my own agenda, for my own benefit. Is it simply a bad idea for me to tackle a project like this because there's no way that I can't do it without doing that? I was very excited about this speech at first but now I'm having second thoughts, that maybe it's simply not my place to be putting forth this information, as a non-intersexed person and neither being a member of the medical community. I feel really terrible that I've muddled my approach to this community so badly -- I was overeager and undereducated.
I'm not sure what else to say. Is this just a bad idea?
Thank you for your feedback and advice...
~Kim
Dana Gold
03-16-06, 10:57 AM
this is for a speech class
The topic you chose for your presentation does require much more careful and accurate research and preparation. And, it is my opinion that, given the responses you mentioned from students in the "sexuality" class, there would be even more confusion and misinterpretation in the speech class about "intersex" than the former. Expect to hear negative, ignorant, and/or bewildered questions and responses from the audience...ones derived from "established" socio-religious beliefs ,psycho-social norms and medical-anatomical "standards. The general public, unfortunately, does not understand the significant differences between a person who is transsexual and one who was born with a "intersex" condition. And as the most recent 60 Minutes show has illustrated, "gayness" is the public's focus, or fear, however one wishes to see it. The confusion between the three tends to anger both those who are intersex and those who are trans....and, there is a real obvious paranoia about children with an intersex condition growing up to "become homosexual or transsexual".....therefore, if you decide to go forward with this presentation; make sure 3 prerequisites are met.
1. You are adequately and accurately prepared with your presentation material and you yourself are confident enough.
2. Choose the kind of class/setting and audience that is appropriate for your chosen topic.
3. Emphasis the difference between transsexual and intersex.
The link Miriam has given you will help....and perhaps this will, too:
http://www.isna.org/faq/
By now you most likely realize that this will not be an easy task........stick to the basics (above) and do not give your audience the impression you know the subject matter enough to adequately and accurately answer their questions......refer them to the resources Sunshine, Miriam, and I have provided you.
If you decide not to go ahead with this particular subject matter, simply choose another less "complex" one; and consider yourself one of the more educated and wiser ones who has had the experience of finding out what intersex really is.
Take care.
Dana Gold
Dana Gold
03-16-06, 12:27 PM
Expect to hear negative, ignorant, and/or bewildered questions and responses from the audience...ones derived from "established" socio-religious beliefs ,psycho-social norms and medical-anatomical "standards.
I may be mistaken; but in your speech class this may or may not occur, as you would more likely be critqued on your "delivery" of material content , than the actual subject matter. Nevertheless, the guidelines I wrote in my previous post would still apply, even more so, since it is assumed your "delivery" would be the focus and perhaps the subject matter to a lesser degree. This I can't say for sure. Whatever the case may be; good luck and thank you for paying attention to the all of the responses from your previous posts.
Once again, take care.
Dana
I remember once taking a creative writing class, where the instructor held up a picture of an older Native American, and he asked the class to vote on whether the picture was of a man or a woman. It was hard to tell, not that telling was important, and the whole exercise would probably have been offensive to Native Americans if they had been present. Half the class said the picture was of a woman, and the other half said that it was of a man. The instructor revealed that the photograph was of a woman, and berated the half of the class that had said that the picture was of a man. I was so insulted that he felt that I had failed his gender identification test that I never returned to the class after that first session. The instructor seemed like he was a very angry man, and probably neither transgender nor intersex. I felt that his taking his anger out on the class was way out of line. Hopefully, in the years since that time, the instructor has found inner peace.
I would be careful about trying to use androgyny as a "provocative" subject. What are you trying to provoke, and are there personal issues that might cause the whole session to backfire? If you have a criticism of the gender binary, it might be best for you to voice your concerns in an honest and open manner. The class may really appreciate that.
Peter
Sunshine1
03-16-06, 11:59 PM
You think we look and act a certain way which isn't telling people about the conditions but rather a stereotypical view because of your non-interest of what medically these conditions are. Please read all the medical links provided in other posts and here is this one again caresfoundation.org
As a person with an intersex medical condition and note not everyone with CAH would even fit under the intersex condition but what about instead of using intersex conditions to as you assume to shock others which I find mean. What about doing a speech that your audience might be able to relate to? Know the audience and the subject matter follows
10 minute presentation to a general speech class on a subject that nobody knows about but might be of interest?
The story of how Guniness Stout is made was one of the most interesting documentaries that I saw back in the day.
:gulp: :beer:
Sophie338
03-17-06, 11:49 AM
Hello Kinbu :)
Ah!! I'm really sorry, that was a very unfortunate typo. :cry: Long day. I swear I know the difference...
I'm not sure what else to say. Is this just a bad idea?
Thank you for your feedback and advice...
~Kim
You are not having a very good time of this are you, I am frankly not surprised. It is because of a few things you have overlooked, A lot of people here, myself included have often found themselves used by acedemics in some way, to "be challenging". And often this has been done without request in the past. What you described in your original post was a littke bit dehumanising to put it mildly. Then pulling the "Transgender" card. that "Oh we are all hip and with it now and we are politcally aware" line of argument that gets peoples backs up. Especially when what you are proposing is finding an "Androgyne" (Try spelling it right) For display in accordance to specifications on a plinth during what is in truth one of those victorian side shows badly dressed up as "modern awareness raising". What you propose is not awareness raising, I can assure you.
Do you not think that we can speak for ourselves? Do we need people putting us on display and banging on with the currentley pathologising lines of argument, reading the norm born riot act. "this is the ideal male" and "this is the ideal female" and then what? "And this is....." (Insert whichever pathologising term you would feel most unsuitable and offensive)
I am going to be nice however, and suggest that you read up on what we have to say, Try abandoning the idea of displaying someone in a side show, it wont happen. Try considering people as erm human beings with thoughts and feelings, rather than "Sociomedical emergencies that are challenging subjects" Because that sort of thinking on the part of people such as yourself has, lets say caused us a lot of problems and caused us to be subjected to a lot of things no one should have to endure.
I would strongly suggest you go away for a while, think about what people have said, think about why a number of us are angry with you, and then if you do figure it out. then come back and be nice next time, and see human faces and not imagined androgynous faces,
Shalom
Sophie
Sunshine1
03-18-06, 06:50 PM
Dear Kinbu,
After having a hell of a good time on St. Patrick's Day, I dawned on me that maybe the reasons you are interested in third gender or whatever is that maybe you feel this way yourself? I think it's sad that you aren't interested in the different conditions because then you would see that we aren't really in one box in how we feel because the conditions have different aspects. My adrenal gland condition is no different than our thyroid condition. I couldn't be a third gender, androgyne or male presenting but I respect those that are regardless if they have a condiiton or not. I'd like the medical community to understand CAH and then later the general public.Umm by the way? did you even check out caresfoundation.org..... I doubt it and it's OK if you didn't.
Speech class was fun for me- I was the one in the back w/ the hangover, worried about my own speech and getting the baseball player's number. You would of looked at me like I had no empathy. This thread was fun, I had also forgotten how smoking hot the speech professor was and how much fun the class was. The best presentations were from people that bull shitted things from right of the top of their head. One guy did a fantastic speech on those used car magazine that you can get from the gas station for free.
You are interested in something specific and trans issues are in all populations so you might find more info about trans and intersex from Emi @<hidden> Intersex portland.
Good luck kiddo It's a fucking big wild world - have fun.
Aimee
After having a hell of a good time on St. Patrick's Day, I dawned on me that maybe the reasons you are interested in third gender or whatever is that maybe you feel this way yourself? I think it's sad that you aren't interested in the different conditions because then you would see that we aren't really in one box in how we feel because the conditions have different aspects. My adrenal gland condition is no different than our thyroid condition. I couldn't be a third gender, androgyne or male presenting but I respect those that are regardless if they have a condiiton or not. I'd like the medical community to understand CAH and then later the general public.Umm by the way? did you even check out caresfoundation.org..... I doubt it and it's OK if you didn't.
Hi Aimee,
I do have a certain degree of third-gender feelings but that's not entirely where my interest in intersexed conditions comes from... talking to people here has made me realize it's completely wrong to mix the two issues together. And I really am interested in the different conditions -- the thing is, I'm just starting to learn about them and I'm doing all this research outside of any classes and fitting it into my already full schedule. But I am researching it and yep I did visit that website! I haven't read everything there yet but it's on my list of sites to read through and intend on including CAH in my speech. Thank you for the link.
I really can't say how much talking to people on this forum has helped me really.. get things. I came here with this idea of exactly was an intersexed condition was and it's been really incredible for me to well.. get knocked down and put right. :grin: I didn't come here to 'have fun', I came here to learn and I've learned a hell of a lot more here than I think any book is going to teach me.
I wanted to tell you folks that I am still going to do the speech -- but with a very different sort of direction. I'm going to cover information on a few different intersexed conditions and address my audience as future parents who may be faced with making choices if they have an intersexed child. I'll talk about some of the ways that ambiguous sex is addressed in the medical community and the ramifications of surgery and hormone treatments in children. I'll include a handout after my speech with website resources and reading material. I'm also in touch privately with a few of the members of this forum who have agreed to review the outline of my speech once I get it done and advise me on it. I won't be indluding anything like an interview which was my very first idea but I'm talking to people to try and gain some more perspective. I'm not going to talk much about gender except for in the context of how much parents stake in their child's gender and how much importance we place on it in society, to the extent that if someone doesn't physically fit into the mold we have that they have to be altered to be 'normal'.
My very first introduction to intersexed conditions was when I was about... 15 or 16, I think when I saw a documentary on the Discovery Channel that dealt almost solely with intersexed people who had struggled with themselves because of the surgeries they'd been put through. I remember at the time thinking how I couldn't imagine doing that to my baby, deciding what my child would be before it had any sort of will. I wish I'd done more in-depth research into the extent and variety of these conditions before I was introduced more fully through school -- but in spite of the horrible impression I gave when I first showed up here, the topic is something that means a lot to me and I feel very strongly about, even if I'm not as informed as I should be and I bumble over terms and stupid typos. It's really important to me that this presentation I'm giving be something that the members of this forum could appreciate down to the smallest details, which is what I hope to achieve with all the help you've given me here. Also, I'd just like to say, I've browsed through the forums here and this is such an awesome place. It's just really cool to see people supporting and being there for each other and finding connections, no matter what their common ground is.
I'm not by any means assuming that you can't speak for yourselves or trying to be a spokesperson for intersexed people. This was just really my first instinct when the prospect of the assignment came up (other than talking about my hobby with tropical fish...). And I feel a lot better about this than tropical fish.
Thank you again to everyone... and if you're interested in reviewing my outline, just let me know. I'd like to get a variety of perspectives, if you have the time of course. My email again is kinbu@<hidden> and I'll continue to check private messages here.
Speech class was fun for me- I was the one in the back w/ the hangover, worried about my own speech and getting the baseball player's number. You would of looked at me like I had no empathy. This thread was fun, I had also forgotten how smoking hot the speech professor was and how much fun the class was. The best presentations were from people that bull shitted things from right of the type of their head. One guy did a fantastic speech on those used car magazine that you can get from the gas station for free.
Haha, wow that's pretty awesome. I'm really loving this speech class -- the prof is as liberal as I am and frequently makes little Bush-bashing asides that crack me up. :D My favorite speech so far was from this kid who once called in sick to work, claiming he'd broken his foot... and then had to pretend he HAD when he went back in to work. and that day AT WORK he actually DID break his OTHER foot. :D!! The whole class was dying.
~Kim
Priestess
03-18-06, 07:57 PM
Hey Kim,
As much as it may seem unkind, I think your detractors have a point. There isn't much chance of you being able to compress even one individual's life into a 10 minute talk without extracting all their humanity and presenting them as a 2-dimensional cardboard hermaphrodite. Let alone trying to deal with multiple subjects without indulging in the same stereotypes which you wanted to penetrate.
But for your own education, please ask the questions you would have been interested in knowing about. Maybe by the time the answers come back, we'd all be a bit wiser?
Hey Kim,
As much as it may seem unkind, I think your detractors have a point. There isn't much chance of you being able to compress even one individual's life into a 10 minute talk without extracting all their humanity and presenting them as a 2-dimensional cardboard hermaphrodite. Let alone trying to deal with multiple subjects without indulging in the same stereotypes which you wanted to penetrate.
I'm not going to try to focus on a single person -- it'll be a little bit more general than I'd like (mostly due to my time constraint) and also a little more medical/clinical but what I'm hoping more for is to introduce people to the conditions and the fact that they may have to make important choices for their own children that could have huge effects on their adult lives. And then give them the resources to do their own further research into the subject.
Is that a little more clear? I'm sorry I'm so bad at explaining things. :confused3
~Kim
Have fun trying to explain what a few of the conditions are. I do much public speaking on the topic in situations that are way more than ten minutes long and usually avoid getting in condition specific stuff as much as possible because each one could fill an entire day of speaking. That---and once you open the floor to that part, you need to be a physician to answer some of the questions.
If you want to make it easy, focus on one specific sliver such as surgery issues. That is pretty easy to explain in 10 minutes.
Have fun trying to explain what a few of the conditions are.
Heh, yes, this is going to take some thinking through. I'm hoping to keep this section fairly brief, but what I hope to get across is what I've really taken away from here -- which is that there's no single type intersexed person or intersexed person's experiences. I don't want it to be a primarily medical-based-jargon speech so we'll see how that part goes. :)
Emi Koyoma's handbook has been a HUGE help in just letting me pull my thoughts together and figure out what I want to achieve -- and I'm only halfway through it! Thank you for your advice!
Sunshine1
03-18-06, 09:10 PM
I'm not an intersexed person. I don't look or act anywhere inbetween. Intersex is term that was used to describe externally what happened to my external genitals because my adrenal gland lacked cortisol to supress excessive androgens and to also help in times of physical stress. Hydrocortisone corrects this endocrine metabolic defect. It's not an identity and might be for some but not for most. Also this really could be a moniker for those with out any intersex condition you yourself mentioned feelings of third gender. Surgery - although could of been done a coulpe years later was needed for menstraul flow to have a place to drain from. CAH genital surgery for any other reason will always be a mystery to me as why it is done. If you want to get correct, pseudo -hermaphrodite is the correct term via adrenal hyperplasia which explain specifically what is involved w/ my cah and not all with cah are born like that
caresfoundation.org might send you info. to pass out- always good to teach others.
Glad you looked at that site.
Sunshine1
03-18-06, 09:26 PM
The tropical fish Nemo.
I believe Nemo was a true hermaphrodite.
These conditions are boring when you trace the medical reasons for them and take away the mystery.
It seems we are something trendy to you and understanding what the conditionare are isn't a concern ..."medical jargon" hey, thanks.
Those basball players that I got busy with in college were much more interested in the adrenal crisis part.
If you are this wordy when you write? Do you speak the same way and are the students able to follow and be interested? Like Dana stated ...don't you get graded more so on delivery?
The tropical fish Nemo.
I believe Nemo was a true hermaphrodite.
These conditions are boring when you trace the medical reasons for them and take away the mystery.
It seems we are something trendy to you and understanding what the conditionare are isn't a concern ..."medical jargon" hey, thanks.
I'm not considering you as something that's trendy at all. And when I talk about medical jargon, I'm talking about the real deep medical stuff that's confusing to those of us that aren't med students -- from my thyroid conditions to yours. The roots of my hypothyroidism are medical jargon to me too. What I WANT to focus on is the people involved and what they've gone through. I don't know how else to say this. :-(
I am wordy when I write -- not as much when I speak. I consider myself a good public speaker and my classmates have given me very good feedback on my speeches. I just have a very different voice online, especially because I don't want to come across as just some kid...
Sunshine1
03-20-06, 11:14 AM
I want to call you Kimba but I'll go with Kinbu,
See, if you get at least a rudamentary understanding of the medical part then you would understand that what you wanted in the first post wasn't so hot. With AIS, the male chromosome activity is switched off ...meaning less so to use that condition to shock others about gender in itself isn't right and to use any medical condition in that way is mean.
You were also looking for an androgyne? why would one think we have the run on the androgyne look? For me androgyne was/is a look of musical group from the late 80's (Sid Vicious, Flock of Sea Gulls) and also to an extent some group now (THE Cure ).
I was in the hospital and half the nuses their had an an androgyne look going on but it's us you want.
I'm glad that I've made you think- I've been having fun.
I'm sorry that you don't know much about your medical condition. When I found out about the HASHI'S - I learned everything about it and Graves in a manor that I could relate to but that is just me. I think a ten minute speech about Graves would be interesting- I liked the thyroid manager site for HASHI'S
Good luck
hanabiko
04-18-06, 05:09 PM
I don't know. You really might want to consider choosing a different topic. In all honesty, you will not do a good job on this one regardless of who you are if you only have ten minuites. Even if you do a good job, you're still not going to have any time to make clarifications... which in all honesty don't seem to be your strong suit anyways.
A better one for you might be something like the construction of gender in society (you don't even need to use intersexed or trans persons to make a good point on that one).
Obviously you have good (but occasionally misguided) intentions doing this speech, but if you end up confusing the class it runs the possiblility of being a bad grade for you and also has the worse potential to add to all the misinformation out there if a student doesn't undersand.
This is just my reccomendation on the basis that I've tried to explain the difference between a transgendered person and an intersexed person to a bunch of curious peers in a upper level university sociology class. They eventually got it (somewhat), but only because my professor happily turned off her watch, sat down and gave me the entire class period to explain. (She later told me she has been previously preparing herself to ask me to speak on the same topic.)
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