View Full Version : A question about after the surgery.
Anniemac
07-28-06, 08:10 PM
OK, this thread MUST stay on topic. PLEASE only reply to MY post. Do not respond to others. It will only make me more frustrated that my question isnt even closed to being answered. I got asked about my medical complications and never got my question answered in my last post. So, here goes with a rephrased version. PLEASE answer it and only it. You can ask me questions ON TOPIC. Thank you for your help.
Question: After I have my surgery, what would happen if I have a relationship with someone who doesnt know about my condition? I'll look perfect, but my insides will be truncated because thats how the surgery works. Now, after it happens, is there anything that will stand out to my partner when we even get as far as sex? What about documentation? My birth certificate will be changed by brute force in court. I'll make them do it. So, everything will be great in those areas. Will they ever find out about me if I never say a word about it? If so, how?
Again, PLEASE stay on topic. Thank you and I'm sorry if I sound mad, I'm not. I just want an answer is all.
Unless you petition the court to seal the record, people can look it up. What is considered a legitimate reason for having records sealed varies from state to state. In some states it's fairly easy, and in some places it's nearly impossible. You need to talk to an attorney about this.
It depends on the technique used. And it depends on what you have between your legs now (sorry for being a bit graphic). I think that it is always visible if you know what to look for.
It will be more visible if you are not born with normal looking labia and a normal looking clitoris. Especially with high-grade PAIS you may have a problem as there will be (almost) no pubic hair or hair on the labia to hide the scars.
The good news is that most people have no idea what to look for :)
For women with vaginal agenesis and normal looking labia and a normal clitoris the McIndoe surgical procedure is the most often used technique. Because the labia and the clitoris are already ok, nobody will be able to tell the difference. But then you have to explain the scar on your buttocks... In most cases of AIS the testes are removed in childhood. Because those testes never descended, many women with AIS have abdominal scars.
Even if there are no scars, your partner may wonder why you always want to use a vaginal lubricant such as K-Y jelly.
http://www.youngwomenshealth.org/mcindoe.html
http://www.medhelp.org/ais/31_HPLASIA.HTM
http://www.medhelp.org/ais/PDFs/Creighton-JRSM.pdf
http://www.medicine.unimelb.edu.au/ams/docs/LEAN.pdf
http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/j.1464-410X.2004.04708.x
Groeten, Miriam
kayleighsmom
07-29-06, 01:35 PM
One of my sister's had the surgery and the other just used some sort of device that you insert into the vagina to lengthen it. Both of them can have normal intercourse with lubricant, yet not sure how pleasureable it is for them. Also, of course, they do not have body hair which is easily explained because many women shave in order to have a "cleaner" appearance. I've also heard from my sisters that if the scars are mentioned (and they both have many and they are pretty dramatic looking) a short "oh I had to have an operation" and men usually don't pry after that.
Hope this helps in some way.
Linda
kayleighsmom
07-29-06, 01:41 PM
BTW, I saw on another thread where you said you had XX chromosomes. Are you PAIS, CAIS or do you have a diagnosis yet?
I'd be glad to help you as much as I can and if you are not comfortable talking in an open forum, feel free to email me privately. I'm usually here everyday.
Sincerely,
Linda
Question: After I have my surgery, what would happen if I have a relationship with someone who doesnt know about my condition?
Call me naive if you like, but I always thought that an important thing about being in a relationship is being honest and able to trust in each other? Would you like your partner to withhold information? Do you like being lied to? What are you going to have to do when asked why you don't have periods, or why you can't have children?
I can't make any choices for you, but it's my personal opinion that it would be dangerous and foolish for you to hide being IS if getting into a relationship which is anything more than a fling. It would also be unfair and deceitful on your partner, and I for one wouldn't think much of anyone who did as you suggest, for the situation you are in.
Priestess
07-29-06, 04:30 PM
A question for Miriam and/or Linda, which I hope isn't too blunt or crude sounding. Do ais'ers lack self-lubrication?
A question for Miriam and/or Linda, which I hope isn't too blunt or crude sounding. Do ais'ers lack self-lubrication?
Short answer: yes. Sometimes some saliva will do the job but more often we need K-Y jelly or something like that.
Groeten, Miriam
Oh, please tell me you don't use KY with all the wonderful other lubes available out there?
Pretty please?
Sorry, the mere mention f KY brings horrible memories from childhood.
Priestess
07-29-06, 09:20 PM
Short answer: yes. Sometimes some saliva will do the job but more often we need K-Y jelly or something like that.
Groeten, Miriam
Thank you Miriam, and I apologize for asking a semi-embarassing question.
Annie- I can't speak from having any experience with ais. I can tell you a little bit about secrets though. My family kept enough of them, and from what I've seen, they poison people from the inside, and torture them. And once they've kept a secret long enough, it becomes hard to tell, even to someone who already knows and needs to know more.
I'm not saying you should broadcast your private business to the world. It's none of their business. But I think you should be prepared to tell people who are close to you, and face whatever consequences that means. Because in the beginning of any relationship with anyone, it's a lot less consequences to take, and if they don't love the person you really are, then they don't love you at all, they'd only be loving an illusion.
fraulein_Maria
07-30-06, 04:16 AM
[QUOTE=Betsy]Oh, please tell me you don't use KY with all the wonderful other lubes available out there?
Pretty please?
>>>> some of us do not live near places that sell Astroglide or attend gay prides and receive free ID lubricants ;)
some of us only have the corner drugstore :) <<<<<
Oh, please tell me you don't use KY with all the wonderful other lubes available out there?
Pretty please?
Sorry, the mere mention f KY brings horrible memories from childhood.
Feel free to use whatever you like best ;) : moisturizing body lotion, cooking oils, egg white, pie filling, saliva, Astroglide, BodyFluid, K-Y, Elbow Grease, Eros, For Play, Gun Oil, ID, Liquid Silk, Maximus, O'My, Probe, Slippery Stuff, Sliquid, System JO, Wet.
[source: wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_lubricant)]
I have no idea what lubricant is/was used in the Dutch hospitals, but I think I understand why you have a problem with K-Y...
Groeten, Miriam
mohnblume
07-30-06, 05:10 AM
... and they sell products, which work too. Or go into the internet, it's full of such products.
Priestess
07-30-06, 11:17 AM
Another general anatomy question. If all ais'ers need external lubrication, even the ones born with reasonably complete vaginas ... in non-ais'ers, where does the wetness come from?
(a question that drives me crazy everytime I feel the least bit of willingness)
The Bartholin's glands.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bartholin's_gland
Bartholin's glands are homologous to Cowper's glands in males.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cowper%27s_gland
If a skin graft is used for a vaginoplasty, you'll need a lubricant because the skin tissue is not exactly the same as the tissue of a vagina. And indeed, even AIS'ers who didn't need a vaginoplasty often complain about a dry vagina. I think that this has something to do with the low levels of estrogens, even after HRT.
For AIS-women born with unambiguous genitalia and a short vagina, pressure dilation is a better solution than surgery.
Groeten, Miriam.
Priestess
07-30-06, 01:21 PM
Thank you again Miriam. That explains much, I enjoy learning from you and the others.
I guess from Annie's description, she'll might need the skin graft.
What I can say about one of the most extreme genital surgeries, that being male to female, is that even some of the most early procedures done 30 years ago by Dr Biber were good enough that a gynecologist could not tell the difference!! There is a wide variation in even "normal" genitalia, so one would be hard pressed to tell the difference. A skilled surgeon can easily hide any scars.
As far as lubrication, that varies a lot as well. Even normal skin cells, when put face to face with other skin cells for prolonged periods of time, can develope glands that have lubricating qualities. However, even in an average woman of age can experience some dryness due to lack of hormones.
So, what can an individual expect?? Well, there is so much variation that an outcome can not be totally predicted. However, diligent aftercare by the patient can have a significant influence. It is not totally the responsibility of the surgeon.
in non-ais'ers, where does the wetness come from?
From being HORNY! :oops: (Sorry, I know you wanted a straight answer but I couldn't resist!)
What I can say about one of the most extreme genital surgeries, that being male to female, is that even some of the most early procedures done 30 years ago by Dr Biber were good enough that a gynecologist could not tell the difference!! There is a wide variation in even "normal" genitalia, so one would be hard pressed to tell the difference. A skilled surgeon can easily hide any scars.
First, transsexual people have some extra skin that makes it easier to make a vagina :smile: Second, with CAIS, high grade PAIS and similar conditions the labia are already there - unless someone screwed them up we don't need a surgeon to 'fix' them. Third, where were those scar-hiding-surgeons when I needed them :) Like Linda's sisters I have a couple of impressive scars :(
Meadow, I don't say this to offend you but I feel that you can't compare a sex change operation with the surgery some -not all- AIS'ers need. To use a one-liner: transsexual people need a doctor to help them to change their body, people with an intersex condition sometimes need help to get rid of the doctor who has changed their body.
As far as lubrication, that varies a lot as well. Even normal skin cells, when put face to face with other skin cells for prolonged periods of time, can develope glands that have lubricating qualities. However, even in an average woman of age can experience some dryness due to lack of hormones.
It depends on your definition of a 'dry vagina'. IMHO there is a difference between the 'every day' lubrication of a vagina (let's call it "moist") and the lubrication caused by sexual arousal (let's call it "wet"). I think there is no problem with this 'every day' lubrication. :)
So, what can an individual expect?? Well, there is so much variation that an outcome can not be totally predicted.
That's true.
However, diligent aftercare by the patient can have a significant influence. It is not totally the responsibility of the surgeon.
That's also true. And with intersex conditions it sometimes is the responsibility of the parents. But that's another story.
groeten, Miriam
From being HORNY! :oops: (Sorry, I know you wanted a straight answer but I couldn't resist!)
Uhhhh... is your testosterone level a bit high today? :rolleye13
Groeten, Miriam
Priestess
07-30-06, 06:45 PM
From being HORNY! :oops: (Sorry, I know you wanted a straight answer but I couldn't resist!)
Well, /I/ knew that :)
... it doesn't even take that much desire to set it off
I just thought of another question. If a CAIS woman is (obviously) completely insensitive to androgens, does she still feel any sexual impulses? The common belief is that sexuality is testosterone linked. I suppose the common belief could be wrong.
I always wondered, because the only part of me that's androgen insensitive appears to be my brain. Though when my estrogen levels are high, they substitute quite well.
Uhhhh... is your testosterone level a bit high today? :rolleye13
Groeten, Miriam
Nope, been checked recently and no T, E is at normal (female) level - still been climbing the walls since last fall :dunno: I'm in my mid-50s and feel like a #@<hidden>$#% teenager! :rolleyes2
I just thought of another question. If a CAIS woman is (obviously) completely insensitive to androgens, does she still feel any sexual impulses? The common belief is that sexuality is testosterone linked. I suppose the common belief could be wrong.
Testosterone IS linked to sex drive, but I've noticed that estrogen is linked to it as well. Especially changing estrogen levels. If I want to increase my sex drive I stop taking HRT for a week or so. :happy68: I don't know if my sex drive is different from that of other women but I do know that I like sex and that I can have an orgasm (or two, or three). Oh, gee, I'm so happy that you can't see me now because I'm blushing like a school kid :) :embaresse
Groeten, Miriam
Priestess
07-31-06, 10:47 AM
Oh, gee, I'm so happy that you can't see me now because I'm blushing like a school kid :) :embaresse
Groeten, Miriam
Umm sorry for that, Miriam. I'll try not to overdo things when I ask questions. :oops: It''s just that I'm sort of an innocent in these matters, completely lacking experience. (not by choice)
Kailana
07-31-06, 03:04 PM
Once during one of my ultrasound examinations the technition asked my why i want confirmation so badly of my internal gonadal set. I told him because when i finally meet the person i am destined to love. I want her to accept me for me and all of my little idiosyncrisys and not for what doctors have made me into. If i am unable to prove all of the things that have colored and shaped my life how would that person ever come forward and be able to love and care for me. This is how i think. i am sure that it is not everyones view or opinion. But it is mine. I hope it helps.
Take care:wave1:
fraulein_Maria
08-03-06, 12:35 PM
could you please post this (or give me permission to post this) to the AIS yahoogroup? they have been arguing back and forth about this very thing; my knowlege though extensive, is far from complete. <<<<<<
The Bartholin's glands.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bartholin's_gland
Bartholin's glands are homologous to Cowper's glands in males.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cowper%27s_gland
If a skin graft is used for a vaginoplasty, you'll need a lubricant because the skin tissue is not exactly the same as the tissue of a vagina. And indeed, even AIS'ers who didn't need a vaginoplasty often complain about a dry vagina. I think that this has something to do with the low levels of estrogens, even after HRT.
For AIS-women born with unambiguous genitalia and a short vagina, pressure dilation is a better solution than surgery.
Groeten, Miriam.
fraulein_Maria
08-03-06, 12:44 PM
[QUOTE=Dianne]From being HORNY! :oops: (Sorry, I know you wanted a straight answer but I couldn't resist!)
>>>> LOL. actually that is only partly true. if you have enough estrogen in your system, you will have X amount of wetness continually. "normal" XX'ers use panty liners through the month for a reason...... ;)
generally, arousal is responsible for EXTRA moisture.... though for some of us, arousal is necessary for the bare minimum.
if a woman of any sort is experiencing "dryness" this is not normal and can be indicative of a problem.... usually low estrogen.
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