sexuality book seeks intersex perspectives/experiences

[SexEducatorAuthors]

Hi! We're sex educators and allies to the intersex community who are currently finishing work on a book about female orgasm (this forum won't allow us to post the url, but you can read more about us at sexualityeducation dot com). The book, which will be published next year, is written to be inclusive of people of all genders and sexual orientations, and it will have one chapter specifically about topics and issues unique to lesbian, bisexual, transgender, and intersex people.

Rather than just write ABOUT intersex people's experiences, we'd like to include some intersex voices in the form of short quotes. (Similar quotes about people's experiences with sex and orgasm will be scattered throughout the book.) All quotes in the book will be anonymous -- we'll use your words but not your name. This is an opportunity to help validate the experiences of intersex readers who may not yet be connected to the intersex community, as well as to educate the non-intersex readership.

If you'd be willing to help us with this, please send us an email (book@<hidden>) -- we'll send you a few questions to spur your thinking. Or, just write us your thoughts on how being intersex affects your experience of sex and orgasms, and we can send you followup questions as needed.

One other question: Is there any update on the status of the main bodieslikeours.org website coming back to life? We know it's been being re-vamped for a while -- we'd love to include it in our book as a resource, as long as we know it'll be live again before the book is out.

Thanks in advance for your help!

Best,
Dorian Solot & Marshall Miller

[Sunshine1]

Please take the time to read the post in the Congenital Adrenal Hyperplasia section CAH Educational info.

Asking someone in my age group and with the degree of virilization that needed surgery to allow for menstraul flow is like asking someone with an amputated foot if they have an itch there.

Nerves were cut and the whole organ was scooped out -that was the surgeries for us back in the 70's and like surgery for any medical condition is getting better and better. When said surgery should be done is up for discussion. Any nerves that I did have were cut away because that was the best medical technology at the time period.

Why wouldn't you put CAH in a section for people that have diabetes or thyoid conditions? I'm really just dumbfounded by the need for others to link with transgendered ...I didn't trans into anything but was born with CAH- an endocrine condition. I'm not a lesbian nor bisexual but some with CAH are and many people with CAH marry and have their husbands children. I'm upset because this baby just died from CAH and then to read your spin .....



I understand that you are learning also.... please tell me what an intersex person is? Because I don't know.......are you talking about people that feel intergendered or something which would be different than a medical description of what my enzyme lacking endocrine system did. Intersex could describe what happened to my external genital area because being born with lack of cortisol from the adrenal gland and we may die from having CAH like a little girl just did. Along with another girl last year and a boy before that ....yes, boys can have this condition and has nothing to do with intersex. Most girls born with this condition just have an enlarged clitoris anyway and don't fit the medical definition intersex anyway.

"Experience of sex?" Because of the nature of CAH - we are exposed to genital exams at an early age to monitor for percoucious puberty and to see what is happening if any surgery was done and. Much like Docs would monitor for surgery say done on a foot or heart but becasue of the nature of the area these genital exams produce trauma and strip away childhood innocense. Yeah, after you have had grown men and women peek and pull at your genitals during childhood , flip your training bra up like no big deal so they can measure your breast with their geomerty ruler and get in real close because they can't read it and .....at ten years old have to slide down and push on the surgeons finger to attempt dialation of his surgical canal that was put in to allow for period flow and you ask about sex? like la la la. Having that man making me slide down on his finger at ten made me lose my childhood. Medicine isn't perfect and I know that he ment well and thought using his finger was less traumatic vs a dialator that others endured. All this makes you feel that sex the only worth you have .....sex is easy just open those legs like the genital exams that sometimes were a group affair, three, two and then then endo would come and do it again with the residents.

Sex is nothing special because you've had things done to you that from a medical view is to help manage the CAH better but at the expense of making you feel like they own the area. Now... making love on the hand is a whole different story but you just wrote about having sex.

I do mean well in posting to you and my objective is for you to understand CAH the whole picture. I saw that you were a cancer survivor and I am also but my cancer non- CAH wasn't diagnosed sooner because the Docs didn't really get what the CAH ( they stopped there because it was "interesting" ...read freaky/ lack of knowledge ) and that was blocking finding out about the cancer and other conditions.

Please, I beg you! Read my post in CAH education info.

[prince....ss?]

Please don’t take my post as a negative. The work that you two do is needed and important and I respect what you are trying to accomplish. I feel that sex education is very important.

I know you are trying to educate yourselves in every aspect of sexuality and I don’t have issue with that. What I don’t understand is what do you want from me/ us? My sexuality is something you would never be able to comprehend, therefore, I would never attempt to try and explain it in a written format. Also my experiences are nothing like the experiences of any of the other members here so my voice is solo.

Not to be rude but the majority of people you are teaching are in that realm of “normal” and I am far from normal. In your original post you use key words such as female and gender. As an expert can you tell me what being a female is, or what gender is? I won’t even go to the orgasm thing because that is a thing that I will never be able to comprehend due to the surgery performed at 11 days old. So perhaps you can enlighten me on what that is as well.

Personally I think our species and society is oversexed. It makes me cringe to think of the messages that the oversexed persons of this country are inflicting upon the rest of us. I saw this morning program that states that if you are having sex only two times a month you are considered to be in a sexless marriage. This was touted with a stern warning that this is not normal and you’re in big trouble because your relationship is on the rocks. The other comment I really enjoyed paraphrased and out of context but if you’re a woman suffering from depression if you got fucked more you would feel better about yourself.

So if all you are looking for is statements about fucking experiences I will be more than happy to share. But I don’t think you’re looking for stories that end with crying, self-loathing or feelings of suicide.

Prince….ss?

[SexEducatorAuthors]

Hi Sunshine1 and Prince....ss?,

Thanks for your messages. Sunshine, we read your post in the CAH Educational Info and found it very helpful -- thanks for sharing it with us.

We certainly didn't mean to imply that intersex is somehow a subset of transgender. These are different sections within in the same book. We also realize not everyone posting to the Bodies Like Ours forms uses the word intersex to describe themselves. We intended the word only as a very broad umbrella term, as we assume Bodies Like Ours does in the tagline "Intersex Information and Peer Support."

The experiences you both posted are among the types of personal perspectives we want to include in our book. To write a book about sexuality and pretend it's easy and "normal" (to use Prince....ss's word) for everyone would be misleading. We want our book to at least attempt to reflect the true diversity of bodies and experiences with sexuality, including ecstasy, misery, joy, pain, frustration, loss, confusion, celebration, and a million other emotions and experiences. Many of the experiences you both shared ARE the kinds of perspectives and experiences we want to include, painful ones as well as positive ones. We should have been clearer about that in our original post. We're writing about the real world, with real people's stories. This is not a romance novel or a the kind of b.s. TV segment Prince...ss wrote about. The draft of our book's introduction addresses the fundamental, complex problems of even defining "female" -- we don't claim any of this is simple.

You're absolutely right, Prince....ss, that no two people in the Bodies Like Ours have the same experiences. Our book will undoubtedly be able to capture only the tiniest sliver of people's realities. However, we hope that even sharing a small slice of a few people's perspectives, with resources like these forums listed as a place to find support tor learn more, is better than ignoring the topic entirely.

We've heard from two members of these forums who have generously offered to share their stories with us -- we're truly appreciative of their willingness to share such personal, sometimes painful experiences. Telling one's story isn't for everyone -- we're only interested in including stories to the extent that others choose to share.

Best,
Dorian and Marshall

[Sunshine1]

To come here and post about orgasms really was a slap in the face.....I CRIED LOOKING AT THAT. You don't even care to answer my post directly but rather give a cutesy form letter response back. Can't have orgasms because of CAH an Endocrine medical condition and the surgery of the time period. I looked at your site selling the t- shirts " I love female orgasms" Talk about waving something in front of people that they can't have becasue of their Endocrine Condition and the surgery at the time.


How on earth do you verify that someone actually has the condition they are talking about for your book or does that really matter to you?

Sex, Sex, Sex...cheesey and cheap.

Love on the other hand? Sensual, erotic, spiritual....another realm of existance when you are making love but this sex...blah blah and your site? thanks for writing because i know where I don't belong. Love is also having the person you are with understanding your medical condition cah and being with you in the ER during an adrenal crisis.

I'd like you to explain to me why you would consider my sexuality any different than someone with diabetes or a thyroid condition that I also have?

Having to slide down on a surgeons finger as a child so he can dialated you with his fingers ...what do you people think of that?

[Sunshine1]

Sex is nothing after you've been pawed by residents from birth to age 15. Put this gown on and take your panties of because men and women thatyou've never met want to take a peek and touch because they want to learn ...hop up here and assume the position. Difference between genital exams as a child and sex? nothing. Having to slide down and push on the surgeons finger to see how far he can shove it in you for his curiosity is medical rape.


Why is it important to you to put my condition seperate? why do you think my sexuality would be any different from somebody that has a thyroid condition?


How much money would you pay someone to put a quote in your book?

[prince....ss?]

Trust me I do understand your frustration with this. I can see that this post struck the same nerve with you as it did for me. I did explain that it was a concept they would never be able to understand as I know other members here won’t understand either. With the shoe on the other foot we will never understand the sexuality that they experience.

I agree with you when you stated “I'd like you to explain to me why you would consider my sexuality any different than someone with diabetes or a thyroid condition that I also have?” That is a good question.

These good folks (granted, creepy for my life style) will never really understand. But this to them is normal even though I assume they feel diversified by addressing gay and trans issues. Some things can’t even be imagined, my sexuality is one of them. But they are trying to educate themselves on our issues so at lease you were not forgotten.

So within their world in which we live I will never fit in and will never understand this sexual infliction in which they are cursed. I will never be driven by my sex drive or restrained by a perceived gender. I am free and clear minded. I am thankful that I am not one of the mindless imps that live and breathe for nothing more than fucking.

Prince….ss?

[Sunshine1]

I wrote about how people can die from CAH and a little girl just did last week and these people just bubble on.


They can't help it and it's the way they are. Their buttons that they sell really? can't decide if they are offensive or really something that wearing on campus, a drugstore or going into a bar would invite conversation from others that wouldn't be wanted. I wear a uniform for work and last week this guy asked me if " I would be his fish dinner " hummm ...no that's OK. The week before that I was wearing a tank top and white pants and this guy that I sorta know kept telling me that he "was horney" that one was actually a nice guy and lets see....a couple of months ago I was wearing a t-shirt and shorts visiting a friend where she works and this guy with his buddy looking on goes " I would like to bite your pussy" Nooo Nooooo. So imagine what type of would happen wearing those buttons or t-shirts?



But the type of people that do these type of lectures at colleges fill that gooey,goofy,and special time period in college for the first three ....naw two months in college before you really wake -up and I went to school where these people do lecture. It's that campy stuff that your student fees pay for and wraps you in that bubble of "sex is fun" until you find yourself double fisting sea breezes down in South Beach with a hollow feeling and you don't know why. The people that I remembered were the college aged people that came to talk that had HIV and that condoms aren't a sure thing AND i know that they didn't get cash for speaking either.

I shouldn't let these type of people get to me that posted. They seemed to be interested in the word intersex without the meaning of the conditions or what treatment someone needs for a functioing adrenal gland for CAH or that some with CAH need surgery for period flow but it is more than that because I do wonder if somehow focus on sex like this wasn't pushed then maybe I never would of had to endure being spread eagle with my panties off as a child so a bunch of med students and doctors could stand in judgement of my fuckablity.

Their web page.... we don't fit into their world and it's erie but a peaceful feeling to finally realize that you don't.

I'm glad that you thought my question of why would you think my sexuality is any different than someone with diabetes or a thyroid condition was good. I don't expect them to answer that but I would of been nice.

I get the erie feeling from looking at their site and i hope that I'm wrong that the reason they are here to write about us in seperate sections is nearing the line of fetish .... "finishing work on a book about female orgasm" "it will have one chapter specifically about topics and issues unique to lesbian, bisexual, transgendered, and intersex people" I'm not a lesbian, bisexual ,and I didn't trans into another gender but I do have an adrenal gland condition that I can die from and did have surgery to correct what the adrenal gland did externally to the genital area and I'm pretty stupid compared to most people but I don't think that any of the other labels that at in the sections of this chapter are medical .....so please why isn't CAH with the section of how people with other endocrine conditions (diabetes, thyroid) feels about their sexuality hummm ???? they won't have a section like that.