xxytalk

[Priestess]

Andre, you'd said that only one of the forums there is members-only. But when I try to look at the other forums, 19 out 20 tries I get an error message about how I don't have permission to view the site. The one time it worked, I was blocked from seeing the main forums index afterwards.

[Andre]

Priestess,

I can only imagine that you've gotten a error 404. A comman occurrance since the site has been upgraded. Delete all the cookies from the site and try to re-enter. I say this to be true, the only forum that is private is "Adult Klinefelter XXY and Variant Persons Only", all others are open.

Delete all shortcuts you have as well, if this still persists, try a refresh when going on to the site.

Let me know if you encounter any more problems, then I will have to take it up with the admin. If you are having problems, then others are too and that is not good.

Thanks for letting me know.

[Priestess]

Oh hi Andre,
I just went back and tried your suggestions. There's no more error messages, but these are the only forums I can see without getting a "Please login" screen-

(website links)
Klinefelter Syndrome Information and Support
Regional Support Groups Near You

(introduction)
Read Here First
Technical Support

[Andre]

Did you look up on the top tabs whether you could see the "LOGIN" tab ?

[Andre]

Try it from this link:

http://www.xxytalk.com/fusionbb/index.php?

[Priestess]

Did you look up on the top tabs whether you could see the "LOGIN" tab ?


Yes, the login tab is always there.


Try it from this link:

http://www.xxytalk.com/fusionbb/index.php?

That's the same link for the forum index that I was being sent to from the main page. Taking the link directly didn't help.

If it were just my problem, it's okay either way, I was just feeling a little lonely because the BLO forums are so quiet.

[Andre]

Press the LOGIN Tab and enter your password. If you are experiencing problems from that page, press the help button and describe exactly what you had here (copy and paste), the admin will check your account and make changes where need be.

Let me know, please.

[Andre]

If you are feeling lonley, you can always email me at Andre@<hidden>. I always get a little mail folder that tells me that someone is trying to get a hold of me and I always respond.

This goes for anyone else as well.

I don't bite.........much.

[Priestess]

Press the LOGIN Tab and enter your password. If you are experiencing problems from that page, press the help button and describe exactly what you had here (copy and paste), the admin will check your account and make changes where need be.

Let me know, please.

Umm, if you need to enter a username and password in order to read the other forums, doesn't that mean they were kind of member's only after all? :confused6
Though I could register for an account there, there really isn't much I'd have to contribute. I'm probably not xxy, the dna test they gave me was so cheap that who can say anything for sure, but I've never heard of xxy's being born pretty close to "true" hermaphodite with structures that certainly seem like female organs.

Maybe I'll email you sometime over the holidays :wavey:

[Andre]

Are you telling me that you have not even registered ? No wonder you have a problem coming on. Even in this site do you need a login name and password to contribute.

As is in this site, I don't consider myself intersex but yet I am somehow listened to, considered, respected and therefore feel important. I am here to learn and support where I can, you ?

Once you are on the site, you will see that there is much for you to contribute and many topics that are specifically in your realm of experience.

Now going on there is completely up to you and anyone else who would like to take a peek. There are many discussions on intersex and much is needed in order for us to come to a conclusion. Why do you think I came here for ? I was not satisfied on the answers I got so I came here to find out from other people who are intersex without being xxy to get a full spectrum. Just so happens that you people are graciious enough to create a sub heading for people like myself.

Don't think for one instant that you will be shunned, it just does not happen there. Describe yourself and you will see that many will ask you questions, be prepared to be riddled with them in all facids.

Isn't it better to understand something in order to accept than to be ignorant about it ?

[Andre]

Now having said that, I am in no way trying to convert anyone to change sites. This is a very informative site and I had mentioned it before that I will stay to contribute where I can. Sort of like a give and take situation.

If I have offended anyone in any manner by mentioning the site that I help to moderate, please forgive me. We, at XXYTalk, send many to this site and have a link open to anyone that will like to learn more. I think you may be aware of that.

[Priestess]

Hello again Andre,
Uhh, I guess I didn't realize there was a difference between being a member and being registered at the site. A lot of sites only make you register if you want to post a message, if you were only planning on quietly reading the threads then you wouldn't need to. That's true, you can't contribute if you aren't registered. But if you can't read it in order to decide if you'd have anything to say, then it's a mystery.

Though I wasn't expecting that there's much I could say anyways. I remember Princess posting about visiting xxytalk, though she has some concerns in common with xxy'ers. Like needing a little Hrt, and planning on some testosterone in the near future. And it sounded like she was saying that she catagorizes everyone with a Y into a broad catagory, which might give her a sense of connectedness to KS.

But me? Personally motivated studying has earned me some general knowledge about endocrinology, more in regards to adrenal hormones and *2F Hrt. Adrenals because mine are messed up in ways beyond the doctors' understanding, and the 2F stuff because I've had a weird life. But short of finding the cause behind my hormal troubles, standard hormone therapies don't really apply to my situation.

I'm willing to answer questions, but any questions about taking testosterone or dealing with sharing one's xxy-ness with wives or girlfriends, and I'd be clueless. I'm almost competant enough to discuss hrt with AIS'ers, if anyone. When the xxy'ers here talk about taking estrogen, I at least understand the subject, but I don't understand the priorities which make, for example, a small dose of estrogen and testosterone preferable. They nod their heads in agreement with things that are unspoken yet understood.

Maybe it would turn out like the time I subscribed to a Kahlmann's Syndrome mailing list so that I could read their archives. Other than the fact that the times of my life when I was hormone-starved seemed to coincide with my not being able to smell anything, we didn't have much in common. And though the members there were friendly and sociable, after the initial flash of curiousity we didn't have too many shared experiences to chat about.

But maybe I'll register. The decision is more effort than the act.

I haven't felt offended by you. BLO is sort of a smorgasbord intersex site, it seems as appropriate for you to mention xxytalk here as for Miriam to mention the AIS support groups, or for Aimee to mention the CAH sites. It's not like people actually have to switch just because they added xxytalk to their list of venues. For the amount of time that most people appear to be on BLO, they could easily be there at xxytalk also, without effecting their spare time too much.

[Andre]

I always try to be respectful to the host's house when I come to visit. I believe this a part of respect, so I felt it was necessary to mention the above post. Sort of like a disclaimer, I do that once and never again.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Everyone has something to contribute. I don't believe that there is anyone that has come forward to say that they are truly intersexed. For us, it's a choice, an exclamation. How we choose to live the rest of our lives can depend on the information given by a person who has no choice. It's that important.

Not many people understand the impact they have on others. There is always an impact, an impression, a mentor......even if it is secretly. Our life's experiences has to do with others directly or indirectly.

Never, never pass up a chance to teach, to learn, to acquire knowledge. It's society's failing to keep to itself, we don't progress.

You want people to understand you ? Teach!

[Priestess]

What information would I have that could help the members of xxytalk decide their futures? I'm not sure I understand. Though there's no way to know if they aren't already quietly reading the forums here, and finding out what they need to know.

[Onnineko]

Though I wasn't expecting that there's much I could say anyways. I remember Princess posting about visiting xxytalk, though she has some concerns in common with xxy'ers. Like needing a little Hrt, and planning on some testosterone in the near future. And it sounded like she was saying that she catagorizes everyone with a Y into a broad catagory, which might give her a sense of connectedness to KS.

But me? Personally motivated studying has earned me some general knowledge about endocrinology, more in regards to adrenal hormones and *2F Hrt. Adrenals because mine are messed up in ways beyond the doctors' understanding, and the 2F stuff because I've had a weird life. But short of finding the cause behind my hormal troubles, standard hormone therapies don't really apply to my situation.

Maybe it would turn out like the time I subscribed to a Kahlmann's Syndrome mailing list so that I could read their archives. Other than the fact that the times of my life when I was hormone-starved seemed to coincide with my not being able to smell anything, we didn't have much in common. And though the members there were friendly and sociable, after the initial flash of curiousity we didn't have too many shared experiences to chat about.

But maybe I'll register. The decision is more effort than the act.


Its not what you thought you were bringing, nor what you hope to learn, really. But those moments where you find something at a complete tangent, that you realize this effort was worth the trip. I subscribe to a number of closed lists, not because I identify with the people necessarily, but because reading their unique perspective broadens my own horizons.

This hormone thingy. :) Seriously, there is so little written about it, that writing anything is like tossing a rope across the abyss. Not much of a net, but every net starts someplace. You asked why a minimum target for a hormone level? Its pretty simple, most XXYers and a number of others have natural hormone levels that are really low, both Estrogen and Testosterone. So the concept applies basically to everyone that fits that category... And especially XXYers, since we've got all kinds of pre-disposition (medical term for - gonna get it) to Osteoperosis, among other problems. The body has a mechanism to offset the Osteoperosis, but the primary reason we get it is based on how much Vitamin D we are able to process. The processing of Vitamin D depends on available hormone.

Whats normal for hormone levels? (measured as 50, on a scale of 0..700, or 50/700)
Men
Estrogen < 25/750 pg/ml
Testosterone 250-1100 ng/ml

Women
Estrogen 50-750/ pg/ml
Testosterone < 45 ng/ml


XXYtalk is no different than your last experiences.... :) But I mean that in the best way. Most of the people that post there, and I have very little in common. But they do post.. and far more often than any listserv or site that I've seen. There is a healthy flow of information there. You like I, have had to study our way through endocrinology to find a stable place in life. Yet, I learn from reading the perspectives of others. And never what I thought was the topic to study. :)

[Andre]

Perhaps I need to tone it down a bit.

My point was that everyone has something to say and saying it (it being intersex topic) or relating your own story may very well help another.

I'll give you an example that you could read on the site:

A moderator had made a interview on a television station that had to do with Klinefelter's and xxy. He gave whatever pertinant information to the interviewer and then was off.
A year later, a couple comes on the site to ask questions for thier boy who was diagnosed in vitro. After they had introduced themselves and asked thier questions, Stefan casually goes on to check out the site and sees how things are going. This couple then explained that it was that interview that made them decide to keep thier child instead of the original decision to have him aborted.

This certain moderator didn't save this child's life, the decision to have this child rests on the parents' solely. But the information given had helped them decide what was best for thier child, in this case, life.

Another example: (I did say low key, didn't I?)

There are many who struggle along with life never really knowing why they don't fit in today's standards of society. Knowing that they themselves are not comfortable identifying themselves as "male" or "female" but a more mix of the both and neither. Confused ? Imagine the person who is trying to figure this out.

Your contribution may very much straighten some views pertaining to that and other matters. We don't know where it could lead and we won't probably know, we can only imagine. This goes for any site that supports people in thier decisions or asks questions to people who are undecided, very much like BLO.

Verstanden ?

Again, this is my point and my opinion. I tend to see things two and more steps beyond our immediate grasp.

[Priestess]

well, all right.
though I registered an hour ago and still haven't gotten the verification email.

edit- coming up on 2 hours now. I didn't see anything on the site for re-sending the email, or for checking whether there were any typos in the address I entered.

[Sunshine1]

Dear Priestess,

Did you find it in bulk Email? that's where mine came up later.

Aimee

[Priestess]

Dear Priestess,

Did you find it in bulk Email? that's where mine came up later.

Aimee

I'm afraid not. It's four hours later, and still nothing. I turned off my email filtering to make sure I got it. A few minutes ago, I contacted my isp, and they said there was no sign of any email to me being bounced. But something is weird, my incoming emails in the last month are down to 2, and I never hear back from people I write to. sigh :(

[Andre]

What username did you use ?

[Priestess]

Oh well, after five hours the verification email was sent, and a second email indicating that someone there expedited my registration without my ever needing to follow the verification procedure. Though after reading through the posts, it wouldn't really be truthful to say that I felt a sense of connectedness to the members. They're just these guys, y'know? :rolleye13

But Andre, at some point you can start the fascinating topics you mentioned, and I'll try to respond, if I can. Yet chances are you could also start the same discussions here.

[Andre]

Yet chances are you could also start the same discussions here.


Absolutely, I am in complete agreement. I see this site as more a neutral ground, if you will. I am very much involved in the other and my function there has become different than when I first came on there. Actually, my function became different even after becoming a mod. I have yet to describe it....I just post what I feel is right and get into the heart of the matter, nevermind whatever BS is going around.

I guess I am no different here, only that I am learning what people are going through here, it's somewhat new to me so I may seem a little subdued on some matters.

Going back to your original statement, if you or anyone else finds that a topic could be discussed here, please feel free. I have taken some topics from other sites to discuss on others, no harm in that at all.

[Andre]

They're just these guys, y'know?

I suppose you could look at it that way. Actually, Onnineko said it perfectly, "XXY is the female version of the male character". I love that quote, it describes exactly who we are. Remember, we have an intersexed condition, although some deny this.

[uncle festa]

"XXY is the female version of the male character" Good saying, I like. Remember, we have an intersexed condition, although some deny this.Some of us are'nt in denial, just getting our heads round the idea.

I personally am still out on the intersexed bit, but do think about it alot! I know one thing for sure is that I'm happy with my description of myself. "A Boy Trapped In A Teenagers Body". Oh and just to confuse folk the physical age of an adult.:2in1: :omg_smile

[Onnineko]

Some of us are'nt in denial, just getting our heads round the idea.

I personally am still out on the intersexed bit, but do think about it alot! I know one thing for sure is that I'm happy with my description of myself. "A Boy Trapped In A Teenagers Body". Oh and just to confuse folk the physical age of an adult.:2in1: :omg_smile

Just wait until you reach your 30s and 40s and still look young. :) Its a real advantage as the years move forwards. Treasure the youth, because really everyone else is blindly jealous. :)

[Priestess]

Hello Matt, and welcome to the forums. I'm think you'll many different points of view here, once people start returning from their holidays. It makes for some fairly multi-faceted discussions.

[Priestess]

Well Andre,
I visited xxytalk for 6 days, and read lots of posts. I guess it's helped to illuminate for me our uniquely individual differences. And so the better to appreciate being unusual.

I would not have expected that xxy'ers have a common tendancy towards angry outbursts, especially in childhood and adolecense. I suppose I was making assumptions based on my own childhood, when I was so meek and mild that even girls were more aggressive and adults said I was so unnatural that they thought I was pretending to be that way. But not all forms of hypogonadism are the same. The hormonal starvation of my first 25 years wasn't the same as yours.

And though the bed-wetting thread left me thinking "eeyeew", it made me realize how badly the surgeons messed me up, that I couldn't have done the same if I'd wanted to. It's always taken non-easy concious effort to control my pelvic muscles enough to allow passage of liquid.

And then, there was a friend from here who I'd thought was a counter example against David Reimer, in that s/he had seemed reasonably well adjusted to his/her assigned sex. But visiting xxytalk has taken away that illusion. And leaves me feeling that in truth, even amongst hermaphrodites and pseudo-hermaphrodites and permutations of corrupted sex genes, that I am alone. Some very rare people may have vaguely similar anatomies, but no one feels the same. A StAR child's fate?

Well, out of 12 posts there, questions from me had either non-answers or the information was unknown. Comments from me which showed my alien perspective tended to sail right on past their recipient. One person agreeing with my remark about testosterone. My being there is pointless. Even if I happened to say something true, it would be better coming from an xxy'er, then it would be the result of valid xxy life experiences. From me, it's nothing.

[Andre]

My being there is pointless.

And you gathered that with 12 posts under your belt ? Elephant crap!

Hey, I could say the exact same thing here but I won't. I could say that there has been only 3 of you who have given me the time of day, but even that would be a dumb thing to say because I know full well that every member that has passed here has read my posts, thought about and either dismissed it or otherwise, but it was still read and pondered over, even if it was for a second.

There may be others who will respond to me later. That is perfectly okay. Tell me, priestess, how were you recieved here the first times ?

So you are unusual, big deal. I got news for you, so is everyone else. It is through the unsualness that we find commonality and friendship. How did you think it worked ?

[Priestess]

I can't say to guys who shoot testosterone and who even had mastectomies and have no doubts of the rightness of their actions based on a lifetime of living with KS that there's anything else besides, without doubly underlining the fact that (I) <> (they) and that my life's experiences are based on living conditions they'll hopefully never have to suffer through. If I tried to explain myself in thorough detail it would be quite obvious.

But if I tried to convince them that many of the things they hold dear are being taken for granted, I will be wrong for saying it there in a place that's supposed to be supportive of KS and the desires that apparently go with it. Just as wrong as if you were to go to a group for ais'ers and tried to show them the value of manhood. In either case, we'd be the outsider, the interloper, with a message that can't serve our good intentions under the circumstances.

Assuming that someone was actually questioning the choice of making lots of effort for manhood, if I openly posted to them that there ought to be more to life than than your hormones and that gender is a crock ... then perhaps I'd be invalidating the members who did choose their manhood?

I've made the mistake before, speaking unpopular messages for various places. Usually I've gotten called a troublemaker or a troll, and then flamed to death or just kicked. When the wisest thing I can do is keep my silence, I do my best. But the temptation remains, to say what I really think. And then I blame myself as a hypocrit for when I didn't. Damned if I do, or if I don't. After 6 days I've already got a list of comments I don't dare say.

But you've still got princess :confused6 who seems agreeable with the consensus on xxytalk.

Right now, though, there's only a few people here who are willing to talk to anyone about anything. It's not you in particular, things have just been unnaturally silent. This is a smorgasbord forum anyways, of course you belong here as much as anyone else.

[Andre]

I see your points, priestess, but you can't please everyone all the time, just some people some of the time. It's not like I haven't been kicked on the site as well. I had a rough time coming in, more my fault than anything else but I prevailed. Having said that, I am sure that there will be more times when I get my butt kicked and other where I do the butt kicking. It's the way we humans communicate our frustration, unfortunately.

I am sorry that your experience on xxytalk was not to your liking and that you feel like an outsider. Prince....ss? will have to make up her own mind, I see that she posts here as well as there and contributes to both, a very versatile person, I am envious.

Is there something you would like to discuss in detail here instead ?

[Priestess]

Hi Andre,
Well, it would wrong to discuss affairs of xxytalk here behind their backs. So, umm, what were the interesting discussions you wanted to have with me? You mentioned there were some ideas you had. And if they're interesting enough, maybe we can entice the others into joining in with the talk? Open discussions can sometimes get pretty lively here :interesti lots of fun controversy lurking behind every corner

[Andre]

Well, no, I am certainly not suggesting that we talk about affairs of another site here, that would be wrong. What I am suggesting, however, is that we can talk about subjects that we are not clear on.

Instance, for instance:

What is intersex ? How does one relate to another gender by being intersex ? Does this mean that both genders are compatible with one that is neutral ?

[Priestess]

Instance, for instance:

What is intersex ? How does one relate to another gender by being intersex ? Does this mean that both genders are compatible with one that is neutral ?

Is it okay if I retsart the thread with this question in the Meeting Board section? Since this is a question not particular to any one condition, it might get more response that way.

[Andre]

Yes, please do.

[Sunshine1]

Dear Andre,

I don't know jack shit about your condition other than it's a chromosome thing vs. the fucked up adrenal gland (CAH)and also fucked up thyroid that I have and I would never assume to think that I would know what anyone would fucking want or think but I liked your site and joined :smile: not because of any deep seated gender things (I do have interesting views about gender though ) but rather the post that was get rid of feminizing fat peeked my interest.

Plus, you are Canadian and I just fucking love all things Canadian and I liked your posts here and also your intro on the other site. I really don't post that much anywhere and going back to school in Jan. You aren't a poorbee type but rather a dobee and that is good shit.

I do have a question and hope it's not that fucking stupid---- swear like a sailor at times :bounce: still want me for me? oh ohh oh and ya'll had fucking food receipes and I'm a foodie so ...ya baby....you be a cool site to add.

I pop into this site BLO, the CAH sites (Not everyone with CAH fits the intersex definition), cancer sites (had that two years ago), also the thyroid sites, and celiac sprue.

Your site and those there were very fucking cool- I liked their posts as well and also was wondering if I could mention your site to my Endo?

peace and Molsen Ice,

Aimee

[Sunshine1]

Forgot my question here :smile: My condition CAH has things that may happen like adrenal crisis and other things. I was interesting in what other things happen with what you have?

Thanks,

Aimee

[CC]

I don't know jack shit about your condition other than it's a chromosome thing vs. the fucked up adrenal gland (CAH)and also fucked up thyroid that I have and I would never assume to think that I would know what anyone would fucking want..............

Is this really you Aimee or,has someone stolen your identity :cartman:

[Sunshine1]

Dear CC,

This is me (swear and can drink men under the table...those excessive androgens :smile: I have been called cute though) and might be better if you would Quote my whole post.


I liked what he had to say here and at the other site ......oh crap .... there is a thing on there where no swearing because of ladies there ummmm maybe not the site for me then?


I Do love CANADIAN MEN and food .....hummm my own site then since I don't fit here or even there based on your post?

It's cool... I will not darken your door. I'm not lady like enough....not into gender roles at times but I was hoping that it would be ok to be me.

aimee

[Andre]

Hello Aimee (I like that name),

I was interesting in what other things happen with what you have?

As far as adrenal crisis is concerned, the adrenal gland is located on top of the Kidneys and do produce some horomones (I call tthem horror moans) but it has nothing to do with T. Our "crissis" stem from the pituatary gland, it is all really connected. We don't produce enough T to make us "normal" and therefore we must replace the T that we are missing. Now "must" is a big word becuse it is possible to live without T, just not a pleasant life if we constantly fight it.

The pituatary gland releases T in a logical fashion, everyone is different in that case and it's hard to figure out the amount and frequency, certainly a test period is in order. It's hard to duplicate the body's natural release system.

For myself, I have stopped taking T a while back, I don't care to remember when, so we'll say 1 year. What happened within that year was a lot, I got in touch with another side that I was denying, the feminine side and I fully have integrated it into my being, therefore I am now whole. After the fight was over, so was my anger issues and the need for a medium, in this case cocaine. I quit the two at the same time, but that is just me. Others have other stories as you well know.

I will be starting off slowly taking T again, because I need to have some energy and a libido to speak about would be nice. What scares me is that T does change the mental state (at least with me) and I like who I am now, and I like how I relate to others and they to me. I don't want that to change.

I appreciate your comments on the site, there are plenty of topics to be discussed and many do discuss it. Yes, forwarding the address to your Endo is encouraged, we would like to see Medical professionals come and take a peek, if not clear up some of the medical questions that haunt us.

I don't care if you swear like a long offshore man, the essence of what you say comes clear and I think you are a good shit as well, Aimee.

Did I answer your question ?

[Sunshine1]

Andre,

Thanks for understanding.

:bounce: I have a very wide gender expression:bounce:

I really understood your post.



Aimee...The Long OffShore man. LETS PUT THESE FUCKING ROTORS OVER HERE ! :smile:

[Onnineko]

Right now, though, there's only a few people here who are willing to talk to anyone about anything. It's not you in particular, things have just been unnaturally silent. This is a smorgasbord forum anyways, of course you belong here as much as anyone else.

I'm sorry to see that you felt unwelcome .. since I for one value your input. A different perspective is .. regardless of theme, providingly coherent, a place to start a conversation. How else do we percieve that we can then ask our selves questions most revealing of ourselves? If not from fresh perspectives of others?

Okay thats probably Onnineko Gibberish.. :) But .. don't be discouraged. XXYtalk is more than just a place to chat about whatever.. it also has quite a following :)

[Andre]

So, I've started taking T in a form of a gel at .25 mg per dose every day. I am on Zyban for quitting smoking and that takes care of other symptoms. I have startd taking guitar as well, to ease the urge to smoke. It's been now 15 days since my last cigarette and 25 days since I started on T again.

I feel fine, with more energy and good outllook.

[short311fan]

need lessons? i teach! :biggrin: ya, i know, totally shameless :biggrin: