Passport agency for the Hypogonadism and testestron level

[jaynez31]

I came here to US with naturalization document and US passport as a male, but my driver's license and Social security card, and function of my job related role as a female, but this is a time I needed to chang my M-F on the passport, I have to verify my status since I hate to see a physician and and doctor to diagnose myself what it is, .

About rour weeks ago, I went to see a doctor B and lab tech took a lot of blood. About 10 days days ago, I visited his office again, Dr. B told me that result of the lab test showed my testosteron leves are 27ng/dl. My level is too low for the male. If it is normal male, the normal testosterone levels range from 298 - 1098 ng/dl.

Then, Dr. B wrote me a letter to the passport agency which states "Ms. J has vigina, testicle, and penis.,,,,, Ms. J's testestoron level is normal female leve, and does not need hormon therapyl" however, "Ms J will proceed surgery to complete transition" to female.
Since I have not send the letter to the passport agency yet, I personnally do not want to have genital surgery. Next Tuesday 8/14, I am going to see him to revise the letter to the passport agency if I do not have to the surgery or have to proceed the surgery. I am not sure if the passport agency agree with it. In my feeling, I personnaly I am happy with current status. I may take female hormon I decided to take, but I am not taking any medication right now. Also Dr. B told me that I am Hypogonadism. So, if his letter state I am Hypoganodism, will passport agency agree and accept my request that Male to Female box?

I need hear your opinion.

thank you

[Kailana]

Perhaps you might just ask your doctor to rewrite the information differently. I really don't think it is neccessary for him to state what you have anatomically. Talk to him, and ask if it is possible to change the wording, like include the hypogonadism, intersexed female. Normal female hormone levels and the like. I really don't think it is neccesary for the Passport Agency to know what genitalia you actually have, or if you are going to transition to female. Talk to your doctor and see what he will do, can do. I think there is alot of confusion over the differences of a intersexed person and a transsexual.

From a medical point of view, the intersexed condition negates the transsexual condition, it is a different diagnosis in the DSM. Basically, if you are intersexed, the rules, regulations, for mtf, ftm, transsexuals, are not suppose to apply, the Intersexed condition takes presidence(i think i spelled that right)a intersexed person is not so suppose to be held to the harry benjamin standards of care for transitioning , that is why many Dr.s can assign an intersexed child as they see fit, the medical community is only using part of his work( which i really hated) and ignoring some of his advice for those who identify as the opposite of there genetic sex. Also why an intersexed child who isnt happy with that assignment is suppose to receive or be able to change what was done, reassign as there chosen gender. <--- that believe it or not is also ones of Dr. Moneys beliefs. I had to reread several of his books too find that information. I read another persons post concerning Dr. Money in another support group forum were someone actually used his opinions to find there own acceptance as in intersexed person and for changing gender.

hope it helps.

[peaceandparty]

i am sorry .....but this is not going to go down well in camp america!

this is making ne sick

i cannot believe that this would happen
even though i knew all along in my life that these sorts of things must be happening

doctors taking advantage of people who dont know their rights and would do anything to get into america-the land of the free

what the...f.....!?

i am so sorry for you.......but i will say this......since being online....i see my duty to start causing ripples in the "perfect welfare system and health care system"
because your story is simply awfully sickening

and i have heard of the harry benjamin standard of care
and it is so america stupid its unbelievable
no wonder that 50 or 52 states of complete states of chaos are so like they are....(obviously not everywhere)but i am european and i dont hear of such way off stories in general....we have more rights here it seems.....or crap together

i want you to feel that you are not alone in this
we need to tell doctor b that there are many types of people out there
and i for one
do not accept my M on my passport
and equally would not accept a F on my passport
i want xxy or intersex on my passport
or else a whole feckin(srry that was feckin needed because of the anger this gives me)
or else a whole extra passport with lines in it explaining every nook and cranny of my body and mind:including--hormonally imbalanced"not in the normal males range,yet has a penis but doesnt always wear feminine type clothes....does not wear make up due to sensitive skin and is not homosexual yet.....got a masectomy which is also not in the normal mans range of doing things normally.....
...
i mean holy god
how are we all going to allow these stories continue

for how many more years will we allow the stupidities of life cause so many harmful affects to a persons mind and welfare by the way we take so lobg in informing people how complex a human being can get

p.s
i have just written this without lookking again...i know that this is a hard post
but its my emotion
and i am not angry...more frustrated and helpless feeling when i see someone in distress getting crap off "officials"....and exactly kailana.....
it doesnt matter what set of genitals you have
and if any one is suggesting that you need to get re-assigned....may i please have doctor b´s address and phone munber and i will personally ask my 100´s of friends in this town to individually send letters and occassional remarks in the letters to doctor b about him getting re-assigned----to the moon!

:teach: :gulp: :thinking: :brick: :-|

[jaynez31]

Well, I am bit shame that I did not do a spell check first post.
In order to clarify the issue I got from the doctor's letter and a letter form passport agency.

This is what I recived a letter from Passport agancy:
"Thank you for recent passport appolication. We need your help in order to continue processing your request. You will need to submit a certified letter from your attending surgeon or the hospital, stating that the gender reassignment surgery has been completed.

If surgery has not been completed and you wish to have your passport give the opposite gender than the one stated on your citizenship evidence, you will neet to submit a detailed summary from your attending medical physician or surgeon. The statement should outline your past medical history, including psychological and hormonal treatments, your current treatment state, and the expected date of your gender reassignment surgery. Upon review of the above statement, a limited passport may be issued".

Doctor's letter:
" To Whom It May Concern:

My name is J.B; I am a physician at XXX clinic and am trained in transgender health. Ms. J is my patient. I am submitting this request for the gender identification on her passport to be designated as "female." Ms J was born a genetic male (XY chromosomes) with sexual organ from both sexes (a vagina, scrotum, testicles, and penis.) Ms J underwent rudimentary surgery at age 9 and recived hormone injections from the age of 10-12, but has not had either since that time. Currently, she has severe hypofunction of her gonads and has a testosterone level comparable to a genetic female. Ms. J does not currently need hormone therapy to transition from male to female bacause her level is currently that of a female. She plans to have sex-reassignment -surgery in the future to cpmplete that transition process. Please contact me with any questions.

Sincerely,

J.B, MD, MPH
Staff Physician"

In my feeling and opinion, do I need to go sex-reassignment surgery? It will be quit expensive and time consuming. If it is allow, I do not want the surgery. Hornestly, I am bit scare to cut my body again.

So, I am going to see the doctor for revise his letter next Tuesday. I will ask him the comment from Kalilana's.

thanks,

Oh, Betsy, I have not post for a while, and I think I posted my thread quite not right. Please switch my thread to "General Health" or "meeting board"?

[peaceandparty]

hello!
where are you from?
which language do you speak also?
is it japanese by any chance?

i do hope that i could talk to you
because regardless of what you think i am

i am really interested in helping out by contacting whoever needs to be contacted so that your welfare is taken care of!

did you get that!?

i am just unsure whether my writing voice is being heard here or ignored----like i have unfortunatley experienced on other sites!

i am hoping i am wrong with this thought
but i am unpatient sometimes
but ia m a very good patient because i know generally how to treat doctors to get waht you want and to do it in a semi polite way

anyway enough from me?
nice to see you again!
not that i met you before

and yes!
i do know how serious this is!

[Kailana]

The passport agency is assuming you are a male-to-female transsexual, the rules they are using is what is required for a transsexual to change the gender marker. You need to make it clear to your doctor and them that you are an intersexed female. Once again i will say, they "the passport agency" does not need to know what anatomically is present. That is where the confusion comes in. I will repeat a intersexed person, is not, nor ever has been required to complete transition, to change gender markers. Fact most Dr.s who require The Standards of Care for transition are not suppose to even include an intersexed person as a person meeting there standards, for requiring care as a transsexual person. Meaning if you are IS, you can't beconsidered transsexual/transgender, there words.

Now then, the passport agency, is considering you as a transsexual, they are using there standards for a transitioning person. Thus, requiring the information for surgical reassignment. Fact you may get stuck using those rules in order to get the gender marker changed. The thing is, you are not supposed to need too as you are intersexed. They just don't have an legal claus for intersexed people. Its basically that we are not acknowledged to exist. Best thing is i can think of, is to get your doctor to state:

you are intersexed female, hypogonadism, normal range for a female, is not on hormone replacement therapy, nor needs it, as you are an intersexed female. He/she can even go so far as to state that the standards of care for transition are not required, a intersexed person, is automatically disqualified as meeting the Harry Benjamin Standards of Care for a transsexual person, requiring Dr.s and Psychiatrists letters of approval for reassignment, gender change. If a person is intersexed, with gender dysphoria, they are not considered transsexual or transgendered, they are intersexed.

You see, being IS means we don't need any of the approval from anybody to be what we are, we are allready that way. Typically, we are just suppose to follow the medical care, hormone replacement if needed, we are not suppose to need any of the letters of approval, or the years of living as, working as, the opposite genders of how we were born, before being acceptable for surgical reassignment. However, many Dr's, Psychiatrists, stick us in those same roles, require the same standards, but they arent suppose too. Fact is there are even dr's and psychiatrists who will refuse to treat IS people because we dont fit the requirements that were designed for a transsexual.
There are also some of the leading Dr's who perform gender reassignment surgeries on transsexuals, who will not perform them on Intersexed people, again because we dont meet in there words the standards of care designed for TS people. I actually think its because they fear the outcomes of the work they can do with what is left, and have read that thought/belief in many articles on genital reconstruction for intersexed people.

Im done typing now I feel as though i am rambling again. Try to talk with your doctor. I am sure he/she can write a much better letter then the one written.

best wishes

[peaceandparty]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6G_9gyjBvg

i am showing this video to the world

its not exactly on topic but i want to open up the most controversial topics to be aired
there is no better place than the internet and this attempt at globalisation
to talk with eachother more than we seemingly are

there are obviously spies or instigators of bad feeling on the internet trying to make us feel that it will be a lost cause to try and change things

well i beg to differ

good luck to you all

i am on each of your armies
if you need an arm to hang on to...you can hang on to mine

but as an individual and an individual alone...we will sadly get not very far in our lifetimes
i want there to be more harmony amongst us and also have more of a feeling that we are not alone

[Andre]

I question anyone that tries to encourage togetherness and trashes another in the same breath.


Andre

[peaceandparty]

yes so do i andre!

i question why you would even bother again ....and again to comment on my behaviour.....you seem to enjoy mocking me at any opportunity
when in fact you are the one who preaches that you are such a nice guy
but in fact in my bio on xxytalk which is probably erased due to it showing how mean you have been to me and how horrible your mindset has always been towards me!

plus in life ,nobodys perfect!

anyway you are xxy mosaic---i think there must be a major difference there

by the way-once angry......always have to struggle not to be angry!
its like people at AA-alcoholics anonymous
i think you lived too long of your life essentially a very angry person,and your recent anger management class has helped but it can in no way urge you to try harder to get on with everyone
i try.....TRY to get on with everyone
many say i should ignore you....but i cant or wont
i give everyone a go-
i dont give up on people just like you do with me!

GUESS WHAT.....i just watched the video again...(because my memory is so bad)....and i cant believe that you cannot sieve the good out of that!yes-i mentioned your name!you orinoco flow and two others who are xxy are the only ones out of 100´s that i have issues with- that need resolving

as i said in the video"you are ruining it"
because your above comment (regardless of how alone i must stand with my thoughts on this subject)
shows me again,how wonderfully non tactful your comments to me are in general

[Andre]

In your video you state that
xx are female
xy are male
xxy are Intersex.

That is an erroneous statement. People with xy and xx (5 alpha reductase, AIS, CAH for an example) can call themselves as Intersex but in actual fact they are born with a condition you and I can only imagine. It is up to the individual themselves to state (or not) in how they want to be presented. Nothing is written in stone.

We see females who are 47xxy, XO (Turner's) and present themselves as Intersex and others female, XY females, XX males the list is endless. None of which is a predetermined condition to be a certain gender. Some xxy's present themselves as male, others female and yet others a combination of the two but they do not consider themselves as Intersex. Not to mention Male Intersex and female Intersex. It is thier right to call themselves what they are comfortable with, Intersex is an umbrella term for all of these.

You are spreading false information about Intersex, I would suggest you inform yourself in the various Intersex Organisations that exist.

Intersex is a way of life, a comfortableness within oneself taking in a non gendered view in people, this is my opinion. There are many here alone that have gone through much more than you or I will ever see, they have the right to call themselves whatever they wish, they sacrificed much to earn that right. The best you or I can do is encourage them each in our own ways.

To continue bickering about who is doing what is blatant disrespect for this site and the members herein.

Andre

[Sunshine1]

Hi Gavin,


I realize that you mean well by your videos but People with CAH have xx or xy chromosomes. Only a small portion are under the intersex umbrella.

Would you like me to provide you with links to learn more about CAH? an adrenal gland condition that a small portion of people with xx or xy may fix under the medical definition of Intersex.

Peace and you remind me of an Irish Poet from the 1800s.

I'm sorry about the trouble that you are having with others and maybe it's that they just aren't artist and you are meant to express and move forward.

I know first hand how it hurts to be dismissed and banned but maybe it's Gods plan that you are supposed to move forward into the next level of where you are meant to be.

I'm not into the things you are saying about the USA but free speech and to each their own.

All the best :bounce:

[JOS]

Just a thought but why not print out Kailana's comment and take it with you to the doctor.... sounds like DrB needs to be reminded of the rules out there?
Good luck I hope it goes well for you, no-one should be forced to have unwanted unneccesary surgery surely?:shock:

[K. Nalani]

First off, please keep in mind that I'm posting this from a legal standpoint. It does not reflect my personal points of view

I certainly sympathize with what you are going through, but as the laws and policies of the U.S. Government reads, you will need to meet certain guidelines in order to make the changes. With you being a naturalized citizen, only complicates things. Let me explain:

Your "LEGAL GENDER" is going to be determined by your birth certificate or naturalization certificate. You can only change this by having some kind of "genital surgery" or, changing your "sex". The status quo in governmet seems to be your genitals determine your sex, male or female. In some cases, such as marriage, etc. some states will go by chromosomes. Confused??

The U.S. Dept. of State basically recognizes gender by what's written on your birth certiticate (or in your case, your naturalized citizenship certificate). In order to change your passport gender disignation, you must show them that you have had a "sex change" operation, SRS, GRS, etc...

To comply, you MUST produce a certified letter from a surgeon confirming such surgery was performed (male to female or female to male). You can get a one year temporary passport listing your "preferred gender" provided that you have certain letters from physicians indicating that you are about to have the surgery. Letters from doctors indicating your hormonal, or chromosomes such as XXY will not be recgonized. (You will need to change your birth certificate first). Are you following me so far? lol.

To change your birth certificate, you must follow the laws of the state (or country) from where you were born. i.e.- if you were born in California, you must follow California state law procedures on changing your birth certificate.

It gets worse. You were born in another country. This means in order for you to change your naturalization certificate, you must file a petition to change your birth certificate from the country in which you were born in first. Then you can change your naturaliztion certificate. But to change your passport, you must provide a birth certificate showing your "preferred gender" OR show that you have had a sex change.

So...if you want to change your passport, you will need to change your birth certificate if you don't want to have the surgery. But to change your birth certificate, most states (and countries) will require you to have a "sex change". Though, some states and countries (like the Phillipines) don't recognize sex changes, so keep that in mind. You may not be able to change your birth certificate.

For intersex births, you may be able to change your birth certificate, if you have enough documentation from physicians showing your intersex condition and the doctor (or doctors) will certify that you have one of the many listed conditions that the courts recognize. You will need to file a petition through the courts, producing these documents. In some cases, judges WILL subpoena the doctors to testify on your behalf that all is true and correct.

I hope I didn't confuse the heck out of you.

Best Wishes,

K. Nalani

[peaceandparty]

you didnt confuse me at all
and i thought i couldnt get more confused from this thread

that was again excellent from how you responded to what you read in the last two threads!

wowee!

thanks so much
for clearing that up
i will do a video of that then,if that is what is stated in the american law----yes!?!

[Intersex]

Yestersday was a very good day, and so is today people.

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=aU0nE57qOrY

Justin :coffee: :happydanc