Intersex Community Forums | Bodies Like Ours - Albany NY needs some support

uriela

09-18-03, 07:41 PM

Hi Neil!

I'm MTF even though I prefer to think of myself as FTF ( ;) ) and Bodies seems like an odd choice to start. I have been in transition for a while and my first attempts at contact were with crossdressers and then with TSs (harder to find and actually chat! with). The first barrier is in us, so congratulations! Are you just beginning to realize who/what you are? Consider me a tease if you don't want to answer!

I came here because I always thought I was intersex growing up, and I am still convinced is "sort of" am. So, is that the only reason you came to Bodies? To find some other guys to talk to who who have "been there"? I could give you some clues where to look, to get started, but because of what I am, I don't want to "put you out". Of course the contacts are more of the "woman" kind.

You are not the first FTM I have met and Whoa! that is a bit different to me. Not that the ones I am thinking of now weren't really nice guys.

Welcome to Bodies from one of the Wallflowers

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Learn from the mistakes of others. You can't live long enough to make them all yourself.

Betsy

09-18-03, 08:10 PM

Hi Neil,

Welcome to Bodies Like Ours. I hope that you'll find a supportive community here. We have several members who are IS and FTM.

I lived in Albany for a short time in a previous life (Colonia actually) when I worked at WXXA. It was when they first started up doing local news.

Betsy Driver

Neil

09-19-03, 12:21 PM

Gee, surprised this mornin'

Thanks for the responses!

I guess I could say a little about where I am right now. The lightbulb went on..just like that...Aug 14th 2003 to be exact. Just back from my therapy appt., having discussed that I would not be in another lesbian relationship..because lesbians want to be with women(which dawned on me recently)...I realized I never identified as a female at all. I dont feel female, I dont think female, and the thought of trying to live female has brought me to the point of wanting to put the gun to my head. I am male, and I need to physically express this in order to be free and whole. I've always felt trapped and invisible in the world..causing anger and anxiety...and always saw social gatherings as hard work...I can't do this anymore...So, here I am..and my journey's begun, and I'm glad to be here!

Neil

uriela

09-19-03, 01:23 PM

Hey Neil!

You'll never watch the sex scenes in movies the same again! In fact the last time I had sex just about settled it for me when I settled into multiple orgasms and my partner was scurrying from the room yelling "I'm not a lesbian!"

You are in for one adventure, Honey! I am so glad for you! Things will finally start to make sense.

Hope your therapist is at least open to this sort of thing, because the first ones I saw didn't have a clue. "Normal" people just cannot grasp what it's like, unless they are able to make the shift in perspective. Even if there are only a few TSs here, you WILL find a lot of people who are much more capable of relating, by their own experiences.

In addition, you might want to check out the forums on Lesbianation. I'm almost off all T lists now, but you could check out PFLAG, especially T-Net (I'm not sure of the home page--maybe there is still a link from "Youth-guard").

Hormones: Do a search for the old stand-by: Hormone.faq. Hormone info for all in transition. A bit dated, but still very useful. I think it's at Jenny O's site.

If you like reading, the book by Harry Benjamin, "The Transsexual Phenomenon", is still available for down load at The International Journal of Transgenderism. Forget the pictures.

Best of luck! The cable people are here!

Tata!

Natasha (again)

09-19-03, 02:52 PM

Congratulations on your realization!

Regardless of the cause, having a gender identity in conflict with one's body, is extremely hard to live with. It is so confusing! And many just have to project their own personal issues, sometimes to your hurt.

Regardless of others pet theories and assumed expertise on this issue. You have not chosen to be in the predicament you find yourself in. Funny how so many people will just assume that you did too. Considering the source of such attitudes, often even gay lesbian and intersex people, such is very hard to understand.

I wish you well on your journey sir, and I offer my friendship. Please try to look at it this way Alex. You have been resilient enough to survive this garbage so far. So now armed with your realization, you 'can' certainly do this. The confusion is resolved, and I believe that is the most difficult aspect of this.

Good luck, and stick around guy.

Natasha

elijah

09-21-03, 10:02 AM

neil -

is your therapist knolwledgeable about hormones and transition?
i'd sugget either finding one or seeing if your therapist is open to talking to another therapist about it.
what will probably happen is your therapist will want to talk to you to make sure that you are ready to transition.
this tends to be frustrating because sometimes therapists will want to wait a bit before you can start.
they will refer you to an endocrinologist who will do bloodwork and will then be able to prescribe you testosterone.

im intersexed and transitioning from female to male.
ive been on testosterone for about a year and a half now.

ill try to get some ftm links together for you.

take care

=elijah

Neil

09-21-03, 11:27 AM

Thanks Elijah,

All the info I can get now, the better. My therapist is very supportive of me with this issue. She does have another transexual client and although she admits that this is not her area of expertise, is willing to take this journey with me. She is helping me find the resources I need, such as support groups in my area, and an endocrinologist. At this point I don't really know why I would be waiting any longer to start tetsosterone. At leas six years ago this became a very live reality which I have buried and reburied...I'm not digging another hole...Have you felt better since statrting on hormones? I think hormones will be helpful to me.

Thanks!

Neil

Betsy

09-21-03, 10:22 PM

Neil,

You may also want to get in contact with Hawk Stone who is a transman and therapist in Albany, NY. You can find his contact info here: http://www.bodieslikeours.org/ourpysches/ourpsyches.htm

Betsy

Neil

09-22-03, 10:45 AM

Thanks Betsy,

Actually surfing around for contacts, I did come across Hawk Stone and was very happy to see that there is a guy around who has been where I am today. That's also how I came upon this site. Thanks for your help. Hopefully things will start to come together for me soon.
:)
Neil

elijah

09-22-03, 02:09 PM

neil -

if you would like, i could contact the therapist who helped me get an endocrinologist and see if she would be willing to talk your therapist if they have any questions.

i will warn you, endocrinologists can get expensive.
its not uncommon for an insurance company to reject someone who is transitioning.
if this does become a problem, sometimes a general practitioner (sp?) is comfortable enough to do the initial bloodwork and prescribe the hormones.
i was rejected because my endo listed that i had an intersex condition. go figure.

a good message board is strap-on.org
there is a forum called the transforum and a lot of ftm's post.
there tends to be a lot of drama sometimes, but i think youll find that anywhere.

http://pub118.ezboard.com/fpseudochainsawfrm5

the transitional male also has some good resources:

http://www.thetransitionalmale.com

i dont remember if you said how old you were, but there is a good site for youth:

http://ftmyouth.liquiding.com

Yahoo also has tons of ftm groups as well ranging from ftm fitness to a personals page I believe.

feel free to send me an e-mail. elijah@queerbodies.org

-elijah

Natasha (again)

09-22-03, 02:36 PM

I was wondering why you ignored both Uriela and I.

Both of us offered you what support we could.

Is there some reason for this?

Natasha

uriela

09-22-03, 04:13 PM

Hmmmm......

I will talk to the air!

Both M2Fs and F2Ms are in general governed in their transition (not that we don't prefer to take matters into our own hands) by the Harry Benjamin standards.

HBSOC VI shortened the time they require for a person with GID to start hormone therapy:

"3. Either:
a. A documented real-life experience of at least three months prior to the administration of hormones; or
b. A period of psychotherapy of a duration specified by the mental health professional after the initial evaluation (usually a minimum of three months).
In selected circumstances, it can be acceptable to provide hormones to patients who have not fulfilled criterion 3 – for example, to facilitate the provision of monitored therapy using
hormones of known quality, as an alternative to black-market or unsupervised hormone use."

Really, it is best to be legit, so the doctors can monitor to make sure there are no untoward effects. And the therapist can check to see if your behavior has gone haywire. Not that I wasn't acting kooky enough without it. And how could I explain to the male office manager that what I was going through was like puberty and menopause at the same time? Would he have believed me?

Have fun! And watch out that you don't start acting like Arnold Schwarzenegger and sounding like him too.

Byeeeeeeee--------------------

Natasha (again)

09-22-03, 05:03 PM

Originally posted by uriela
Hmmmm......

I will talk to the air!

Hi Uriela,

The point is that you should not have to. How can we expect to clean up the attitudes of society, if we do not clean up our own house?

Natasha

uriela

09-22-03, 09:16 PM

Natasha,

Neil did say "thanks for the replies" and I would think that includes yours and mine. It could be that Neil is a little uncomfortable about being people who had to pretend they were what they were not and were raised the other way around. Once I signed on to an M2F SOFFA group just to see what they were like. I couldn't just lurk and they insisted on an intro. The moderator said that she guessed it was okay I was there, but after a little while with no nastiness I thought it best to vacate the premisses so they could talk freely.

Testosterone is not something that agrees with me. I had thought that ERT was supposed to take care of just the cosmetic side, and I was unaware that part of the problem was my body's antipathy to testosterone. That it was a part of my long-standing discomfort and it was not just being put into the wrong role. Partly from visiting a web site by Raven Caldera, CAH and raised female, but had severe migraines because of it that I realized that it was just part of my makeup what made me the way I was and not because I was perverted.

I never thanked Raven. It wasn't that I ignored him. He probably had enough traffic without me saying anything, although it probably would have been a nice thing to do. At that rate I could have spent days on end with just thank yous.

I've been around "loaded for bear", expecting to be misunderstood (still am if they find out) and expecting rejection. My nails are dangerous enough! And I have held back enough venom to kill myself a hundred times over. Of course, people steered clear of me. I would just grit my teeth and say, "It's show time!"

I'm trying to clean up my attitude. But being more passable helps oodles.

And it's okay seeing/hearing a response. It seems to be woman's lot to take the sidelines, but we can still wink to each other, knowing we are in there too. And if we've got it together, we certainly do count and are not ignored.

R-r-r-r-r-r

Natasha (again)

09-22-03, 09:25 PM

Hi Uriela,

I disagree with you that it is "womens lot to take sidelines". It is, for only as long as we allow it.

As far as Neil ignoring us or not goes. Well, he surely did. He responded to Betsy, and to Elijah twice.

For what it is worth. I know that I deserve better.

Natasha

Betsy

09-22-03, 09:42 PM

Natasha,

Please stop assuming what any response or lack thereof "implies" It's not very welcoming, nor is it very polite. In fact, it's very close on the edge of flame which I would rather not have occur here.

Betsy

Natasha (again)

09-23-03, 01:02 AM

Betsy

I wonder why you you didn't email me about this privately. You seem to have jumped at the chance, to publicly express your disdain. Am I surprised? No.

But you are in charge, and this is your forum after all.

So now what? Am I excommunicated? Heavy fine? Twenty lashes?

Natasha

PS

Neil

09-23-03, 11:19 AM

Uriela and Natasha,

I didn't mean to ignore you, and I am sorry for leaving this impression. Everything posted here has been helpful and reassuring and I dont really know why I didn't post replies to you...I didn't mean it...If anything I've gotten very understanding and reassuring replies from both of you..and maybe I took that for granted without fully realizing it. You've certainly tuned me in to the error of my ways and I will be more aware and responsive from now on.

Sincerely Apologetic,

Neil

Natasha (again)

09-23-03, 11:45 AM

I appreciate you clarifying that. Maybe I am a bit sensitive about this sort of thing. I realize that all of us have limited time to read and post here. If it were not for the fact that I know that both Uriela and I are worthy of equal treatment, I would not have said anything.

All of us here deserve the benefit of the doubt, and we all deserve the same consideration. I think we should all try to remember when we thought we were unique and all alone in our situation, and so then refuse to take each other for granted.

All the best,

Natasha

Neil

09-23-03, 12:41 PM

Hello Natasha,

Thanks for understanding...and I'm glad you spoke your mind. But, can I chime in on your quote..."not perfect yet..a work in progress"?

Neil
;)

Natasha (again)

09-23-03, 03:02 PM

Hi Neil,

You sure can. Heck, we all can. I really do want to congratulate you on your realization. I know from experience it wasn't easy. I fought the very idea of changing as absurd, for years. Finally I had to accept the fact that for me, nothing else would work. Man am I glad I did it too. I have never had any regrets, but it isn't for everyone from what I have seen.

I also really want to thank you for understanding too Neil. You seem like a really cool guy from here.

Big hug.

Natasha

Neil

09-23-03, 07:50 PM

Natasha,

I just erased a whole message I wrote to you by accident...arghhhhh. Well, I was asking how you might suggest handling the transition of having people start to call me Neil and the appropriate gender pronoun. I screw up on this myself..and I certainly will not be hard on people forgetting...I think I am harder on myself for forgetting..like if I can't even get it right..it must not be. Did you ever feel like that? I just want to know if feeling really clumsy right now is normal.

Neil

uriela

09-23-03, 08:50 PM

(I go back to work next week after a three week vacation. Just before I left I was referring to myself as Ms. A_______. At least they refer to me by my real name, but as for pronouns--forget it! I get angry every time I hear myself referred to as "he"!! I've almost been canned as a result of my objections. They say they have been "trying", but if you "try" you say, "Excuse me", and use the right pronoun once in a while, don't you?

(Three plus years at church like this, and some people have never changed. Two years plus at work, and I am sick of it! One person I never expect to change was directing someone and she told the client to follow "[pause] that person." Friends refer to me as "him" and then when I mention something about it, blow up and say I am too hard on people. And I wasn't even acting angry at the time!

(Last year my name was legally changed and that didn't help with the pronoun thing. They say I have to have the full blown operation or I couldn't gripe about it. I use the women's washroom anywhere. My right to do so was questioned once and I showed the chief of security my driver's license and that was that. Name and gender was changed on that the same day that my name was changed. Social Security changed my name, but not my sex of record. So my work records say "male" too.

(Today I finally got my car under my own name. "Just sign here that the person identified as so-and-so is so and so." Just a few dollars to change the title. And I put down sex as female. :p He had asked, "How could I help you, Ma'am?" Ultimately, what does he care?

(I've been asked a number of times what my equipment is "down there". It is none of their business. I should never ever have answered them. We had no intention of sleeping together. Aargh!)

Natasha (again)

09-23-03, 10:17 PM

I am having a difficult time with this one. If I am honest, you may not believe me, or you may feel that I am purposely being unsympathetic. As well I am 100% certain, that some here will not like any of this at all. My view on this is very politically incorrect. No matter where I am, it always has been. <sigh> So hell with it! Here goes.

Now I know that I am no beauty anymore. The picture you see, was taken shortly after I turned 50. I am going to be honest with you, and hopefully my story will benefit you both.

Before I changed sex, I was not accepted as a man. Strangely enough though, I was not called sir until 'after' I decided to change, and was in the process of doing so. I know this sounds ridiculous, and even unbelievable.

Those who were aware I was supposed to be a man, then decided to reinforce my supposed male sex. Prior to that, they frequently pointed out "how feminine" I was in appearance, voice and mannerisms. It really bothered most people. It was all so funny to them. ha ha

I was confused by this only briefly. Then I figured it was about normalcy to them, and staying within "the rules". None of this had much if anything, to do with my appearance or presentation. It was about their discomfort, with themselves.

Regarding personal conviction. Well, I simply never did think of myself as a man, though I really tried to very hard. I went into therapy, specifically to get over it. But I always felt like a make believe man. It took acting, the intentional putting on of a role. I never was very good at it. I was always very odd. A tall (5' 11 and a half) male, with a womans face and voice, and a chip on her shoulder. I was angry and resentful of the disrespect I got so often. I even became a good street fighter eventually. It was that, or be taken, used, and pushed around. Not very "lady like" I know, but hell with that too.

Now I am a female though unconventional, and I guess that last part is by choice. This is something I still wrestle with. If I were to give into my instincts, I would be conventional. BION.

But I would still refuse to be submissive to the whims of others. I would rather die, even die badly. Often I wish I could find a good man, one who wants a partner instead of a servant. Then just settle down and get married. I love men, but I do not trust them. I still have a real problem trusting anyone at all in fact.

Just be you. To HELL with everybody who will not honor your right to freedom. Or just be miserable trying to please those who can never be pleased anyway. For those kinds of people, it is all about ruling you, and nothing else. Their expectations of you will always be just out of reach, because they want you to "try", and be beholding to them because you fail. You will fail too, because your failure is the key to their power trip.

I grew up with people like that for parents. I know what I am talking about.

Does any of this help at all? I wonder.

Natasha

uriela

09-24-03, 12:34 PM

Natasha,

Well, now I certainly understand you a lot better! I was surprised that you ended up being so tall. That's unusual for someone with Turner's, so I've read. My niece with the same is under five feet and is no mental giant. She wasn't diagnosed until she was ten. My daughters were much younger and wondered how she could be older and seem almost their age. And I think you are very lucky to be so intelligent.

Yeah, People Pleasing is one of my faults--but it is also one of my better traits, too. I need balance.

Neil,

You have already started with getting recognized with THAT name. My name is not really Uriela. I was recently nicknamed "Redbird" at work. Makes it a bit more palatable for them. A couple of decades ago I was "Blondie", but that didn't stick. To be named after your HAIR. Eu Weh!

Legal name change? That is one of the signs the Powers have come to recognize as a sign of being committed to changing your sex of designation. It cost me $300 and required courage that I don't have a heck of a lot of. I didn't think it was really necessary but it is one of those things that keeps people from calling you that name your parents gave you.

Names are gender markers. Some of them can be taken either way and now it has become more common for girls to be given male names. My legal name is not unusual for women, but I have gotten the comment "That's an unusual name", especially on the phone. My phone voice. "You sound so male." from someone who "sounds so female" and expects me to believe that they are male?

I was trying to remember the name of this one lesbian who used a male name. I thought she was trans! But then she told us more about herself and laid that to rest.

Start calling yourself whatever name you please. And see what happens. I started on the web. Actually my legal name was given to me by a gay friend, because I am so wishy-washy about choosing things. But I have stuck with it for over twenty years, mostly in tranny circles.

My most significant triumph (don't tell her) was when my wife who is now my friend started calling me by my right name and using the correct pronoun.

Anyway,

I'm outa here! And maybe I'll lurk and maybe I won't!

Luvya all. Many blessings!

Uriela

Natasha (again)

09-24-03, 12:51 PM

Originally posted by uriela
Natasha,

Well, now I certainly understand you a lot better! I was surprised that you ended up being so tall. That's unusual for someone with Turner's, so I've read.

I have Mosaic Turnmers syndrome, not Turners. Last I heard form the medicos I am a "complex mosaic", not just X/XY.

There are many myths regarding Tiurners syndrome. One of them is that they are often uninteligent. That is more often than not, not true at all. Most seem to have at least an average IQ. I have known several Turners women, all smart profesionals. They were a bit petite though, as most are on the average. My height may be explained for other reason as well, involving drugs I was given beginning at about age 10. No, not HGH. They didn't have that in those days.

ClaraJane has a good website about this. You may wish to go see it. http://www.xyxo.org

Natasha

Neil

09-24-03, 09:13 PM

Natasha,

It was very interestng to view the Turners Mosaic Syndromes site. It really starts to make you wonder what it all really means. I had no idea until recently how many genetic variations there are and how much it truly does impact our lives. I don't know if my transexuality is due to a genetic anomaly or not, but it certain made me go hmmmmm?

You know it just kind of irks me to think that the world is so plastic...and I don't mean the surgical kind....if that were the case..we'd be way ahead of the game...but, I hated thinking about how rough the world can make it on us. I give anyone extreme praise that can go to work on a daily basis and endure all of the fallout from everyone elses discomfort. I don't know if it is acceptable to be called Redbird...but, it seems sort of objectifying to me. We all can take it in stride..but it does hurt anyway...I just wish people could see that. I guess I 'm through venting...
for now.

Neil

ps...I was addressing you also with this post uriela...:) and I'm not trying to be a smart alec...just thoughtful..

Natasha (again)

09-24-03, 10:07 PM

There is certainly a complex assortment of possible causes.

Personally I think in many cases, transsexualism has
some genetic basis. There has been some sound
research which strongly suggests this. Sadly there is
much bias still floating about concerning this. It is a
very divisive topic in IS circles, and trans as well.

Some assume that to even consider this, infers that
one is merely looking for excuses. While others
assume yet still, that gender is absolutely irrelevant.
So why even bother?

Myself I am all for understanding why, and for getting
outside of assumptions with strong political motivation
concerning this.

Few seem to realize that the entire protocol of infant
intersex surgery, is in fact founded upon such politically
motivated bias and supposition.

Some in academia were very hot to prove that gender
is solely a social construct, irrelevant and so therefor
completely arbitrary. This is in fact how the IS surgery
protocol really began I beleive. We were really only a
sociological experiment used to confirm this assumption.

Though I agree that gender ID is not the main concern
regarding IGM. I also realize that it was bias against it's
very relevance, and other such foolish and cavalier
assumptions, which both created, and even now still
continues to fuel IGM.

I believe it is high time we all accept what is, and learn
to dissolve our own reactionary bias about these things.

Natasha

uriela

09-26-03, 04:18 PM

Hello again!

I will freely admit that I am a transsexual. I do disagree with the usual definition that a transsexual is a person who is uncomfortable with his/her "biological sex" or was "born in the wrong body." There is nothing wrong with the body, except for a few things.

I think the definition should be "one who is uncomfortable with their assigned sex or gender."

Yesterday I found an essay regarding MtFs (sorry it is not inclusive) written last year where one medico argues that in many instances it is a case of MAIS (minimal androgen insensitivity syndrome). My doctor told me that at the inception of ERT my testosterone level was above normal, but that that was not unusual for a young man. I'm not young.

Zhou, et al. in the Netherlands found some structures in the hypothalamus which are unusually small in MtFs (who had a typical male body and some had had ERT and some hadn't), often even smaller than in typical females, and much larger in the typical males, including gay males.

IMOH, the dysphoria (discomfort), as you may guess, is not native to the individual, but comes about from how one is raised. I imagine both of you, Natasha and Neil, have done quite a bit of "acting out" (as I most certainly have) because you were not allowed to be yourselves.

Of course, it is easier to put one of us on the couch than the rest of humankind.

Redbird

Natasha (again)

09-26-03, 06:19 PM

Loved it. I cannot completely accept your assertion however. Though true in some certain application, and for many individuals, it is not completely true for all.

When it comes right down to it I can only speak for myself, and so then from my personal experience.

Gender wise behaviorally, I am all over the place. Truly, for me it came down to personal dissatisfaction, of a most intense degree, to my sexual body. Tried it, hated it, and just never could feel comfy with it ,as it was. It was not about clothes or sex partners social expectation and role, none of that, cause I hate much of the female ones. It was about my body.

I spent over 30 years running all of this back and forth through my mind. It came down the fact, that I hated having a manlike sexual body. Nothing more, nothing less.

Oh, by the way. Here is something I wrote just today about this.

So glad you are here Uriela. Cool name ya know.

Natasha

A Godspell Intending

Sending a blending of mending for gender,

all the perusals of gender unending

rending her sending her,

fits of intending, to fending,

the uncomprehending.

Sending a blending of mending for gender

hoping of ending the silly contending,

the privately held and uniquely appending,

misunderstandings of misapprehendings.

Swerving along upward ascending,

swirling spirals of gender descending,

confusing what little is known,

of the expanding unending unknown.

Sending a healing of gender contending,

diffusing diluting polluting offending,

accepting embracing questions unending,

kenning what little is shown.

Natasha

Neil

09-26-03, 08:38 PM

Hi Uriela,

Well, I am certainly uncomfortable with my assigned sex/gender..that is for sure. It was never right..but, I did try...I am just in a frustated position right now, because after six years or so of allowing myself to become and then throwing myself away...I have to live. I feel stuck waiting to be put on testosterone..kinda like a car that just wont start...no matter how many times you turn the key. I want to tell my family, and I will be seeing them soon I think...and want to have something concrete to express to them. Without getting my endocrinologist set up, I am just waiting.....I did call the only FTM therapist in my area to set up an appointment to help me with this direction...and I didnt hear back yet...although it was only yesterday. Maybe I should mention in my message that I need to see him because I am newly dealing with my own ftm transition..and he is really my only source of help. I am rambling...sorry.

I didnt mean that Redbird is not a nice name, because it really is. I was being defensive it is just where Im at.

Natasha,

I thought your poem was terrific! But, what does the last line mean...kenning? It really had a feel of "this is right"..very good.

Neil

Natasha (again)

09-26-03, 11:55 PM

Kenning is an old word meaning seeing, knowing or perceiving.

I am glad you are getting on with it Neil. That is how you get there.

Natasha

uriela

09-27-03, 12:59 AM

Neil,

I can hardly believe that in the whole area of Albany there is only one FtM therapist. I called one FtM therapist (very well known) in the Chicago area and since she was too busy, she referred me to two others. I didn't want to travel that far, and a TS acquaintance told me to e-mail Dallas Denny and, although a couple of those in the response were five hundred miles away, one happened to have an office only a mile from my office! BTW she recently took on an FtM client, and that surprised her. She does other types of counseling too, but has been dealing with MtFs for over twenty years, so if she can't handle it, I would be thoroughly surprised. I think there are at least a half dozen just around Chicago.

That one therapist can't be the only fish in the sea. And I thought maybe you would be breaking one in. ;) They have to start somewhere. Maybe that is too much. I don't know. But she/he has contacts, I'm sure, and would not be totally in the lurch. Psychiatrists can prescribe. Mine just tells the doctor it's okay and he goes ahead with it, as long as your health meets his standards.

A nickname means you are okay with the group. The one who gave it to me calls herself PQ--we are not clear what that means. We do know she doesn't always mind them. We're almost all grannies in our unit now. Even my supervisor. PQ's been my friend since I got there, even if we did have a falling out for a while. I can understand that you might not ken whether it was meant to offend or not.

Natasha,

Whenever they give these dorky lists enumerating "male traits" and "female traits", I go "ho-hum, Here we go again. [yawn]" They ARE riDICulOus! And some of them are proposed by so-called scientists! My first impression of one of them was that it was so constricting of what I have seen/heard/know of real womanhood. Didn't they know a woman could be a b----?

Thanks for not slamming me for expressing it so binomially. I just cannot be exact about it. Neil may be confused and so am I. I know I oversimplify, but otherwise my thoughts and words would lapse into that swirling and churning of your poem. Unh-unh! You aren't going to get me talking about sensuality. I think they'd ban "Bodies" from the libraries all right! Shush, Uriela!! :p It is a matter of how our bodies are wired, not just our minds.

Because of the latter I am not completely a feminist.

Loved your poem. I really dig onomatopoeia. It masks how much thought went into it and had me feeling it before I started to get it. Cool!

Nameste'

Uriela

(p.s. This is a nom de plume for this list. Taken from the same of a dear dead friend.)