Jim's Most Recent Adventure in Politics

[RGMCjim]

Another of Jim Costich’s Excellent Adventures

On November 7, 2003 I attended the Gay Alliance of the Genesee Valley Annual Community Leadership Luncheon at the Grand Ballroom of the Hyatt Regency in Rochester, NY. I go every year. There was massive media and newspaper coverage because the GAGV was giving them awards this year. There were many other awards handed out to local & national industries for their support of the GLBTI Community. GLBT Ceo’s, Police, Business people, lawyers and judges, philanthropists and clergy we there. I got to mingle, flirt and be amazed at all the straight allies that our community has amassed this year as GAGV has moved the GLBTI into the larger community in my City. The board members and staff of GAGV all include “I” when talking about our community at large. I already had membership as Gay, but my WHOLE queer self and others like me have a place at the table set for us.

There were 2 morning workshops:
“The Business World After SONDA” presented by Ross Levi, Director of Public Policy and Education for the Empire State Pride Agenda.

“Creating a Culture of Value and Respect in the Workplace” by GAGV Executive Director Chuck Bowen.

The keynote speaker at the luncheon was Jennifer Middleton, Esq. Senior Legal Counsel for Lambda Legal (www.lambdalegal.org), the New York City-based organization that fought for the Supreme Court decision of last June, overturning sodomy laws in the U.S.A.

I didn’t imagine I would get a chance to speak to her but as the room was clearing at the end there she stood. I rushed up to ask my BIG question, the one I’ve been dying to ask someone in the GLBT Civil Rights movement but she, of all people was the top of the list!! I asked her if the people at the top knew about the intersexed and could our existence solve the civil rights problems especially marriage? After all, if you can’t draw a finite line between male and female doesn’t that just solve everything? She was ready with an answer even before I stopped talking.

The powers that be in the GLBT State and National organizations are VERY aware of the issues that do and may affect the intersexed, and are very concerned for us. She explained to me that the current court climate is to prevent same sex marriage at all costs. The resulting mess that has resulted over transsexuals has the courts in an uproar. The result has been the threat of labeling the intersexed and transsexual as a pathology that medicine has failed to cure thereby excluding us from civil rights. The intersexed have yet to hit the courts and she is very concerned about what will happen to us when we do. If we’re not very careful we stand to be legally defined as second class citizens for not fitting into the gender binary. She was aware of the progress ISNA has made on the elimination of genital mutilation and that our community MUST not rest until this has stopped, but the legal implications could be beastly for us. She explained to me that the approach to “same sex” and thereby “variant sex” marriage must be to remove sex and gender from civil marriage altogether. Get the government out of our pants and bedrooms and deal only with the Civil Contract between PEOPLE that civil marriage should be. She explained that it was the only way to keep some of us from being left out.

She didn’t have anything to say that I wasn’t expecting to hear, but it was still chilling. As a legal assistant to a lesbian lawyer I have learned a lot about how differently the law and courts are from the medical, psychological and social realm regarding GLBTI people. I know enough to be dangerous, but I’m not entirely wet behind the ears. It was an enormous relief to know that we are included despite our lack of visibility and our emerging identity as a people. We are in danger, but we are not alone. There are those who are advocating for and looking out for us.

[Dana Gold]

Throughout the years I have been acutely aware of the zealots of various twisted dogmas who consider ANY variant of the evil word "sex" as "abominations of God".
While it is comforting to know that there ARE advocates for "real" democracy and human rights, it is still very scary to know that there exists the "ultimate authority" of government and religion ( I as a Buddhist respect ALL religions, it is my belief, however, that, the original intents/teachings of all of these religions has been twisted throughout the centuries by human beings who use such as a tool to "correct and control". Both governmenb and some religious "authorities" have been more arrogant in their striving to create and maintain " a new "World Order" and "Moral Amerika" ( I don't entertain the thought that Democrats are any less phobic of "sex"-variant human beings, they just wear a different mask). Adolf Hitler would be proud of the way things are going.

[Dana Gold]

[quote]
The result has been the threat of labeling the intersexed and transsexual as a pathology that medicine has failed to cure thereby excluding us from civil rights.

I am very curious as to how IS and/or TS are treated in countries other than the USA, especially Europe. The reason for this is that I have at times had serious notions that life is getting worse for IS/TS here in this country and (even though 53 yrs old now) have thought of moving back to Europe (again). I went back after high school to the country of my birth (Germany) and was quite happy there until I got a letter from "Uncle Sam" ordering me back to US for pre-induction into US Army (Vietnam era) then 1969 wherein I lasted 9 months and and was released from the Army with a General Discharge (Incompatible with Army). I didn't go back because I got seriously involved with "radical" groups after the Army, even got arrested, but released of guilt in "conspiracy" charges (the charges were so ludicrous the judge dismissed the case.) I'm thinking that, here in the US, too many bad memories and the "paper trail" of Male will forever haunt me, especially with Congress serious consideration of Identity Cards linked to FBI database....I don't EVEN look male! I might as well then wear a sandwich board: Hi, I'm your friendly neighborhood intersexed transsexual!
Am I being paranoid?? (Yes,I admit that I have anxiety/panic condition) Do others feel that soon we will be like the Jews in Nazi Germany? Seriously.

[claraJane]

Data wrote: "Do others feel that soon we will be like the Jews in Nazi Germany?"

Dana, the wholesale gassing of TS and IS people might come but it isn't likely in the near future. However, if you are really concerned about it, I would suggest that you raise your voice in protest over the humans in this country who are routinely being killed. Millions of unborn babies are killed each year in this country, some in the middle of an otherwise normal delivery. Others are labeled as being in a "persistent vegitative state" and then starved.

Dana, all that it takes is for you to be deemed sub-human or non-human. "Baby" was redefined as "Fetus" and then as "Product of Conception" to dehumanize them enough to make it easier to kill them. If we allow any human life to be degraded then all human life is at least potentially degradable.

Parents of IS children are often pressured by their doctors to abort. And I know of cases where the parents were told lies about the IS condition to strengthen their argument. Do we protest that no one should take an IS condition into account when thinking about abortion?

I would say that the reason that all human life has value is that we are all created in God's image. That is what the Bible says. Dana, how can we ask others to value the life of an IS or TS person if we, ourselves, are unwilling to do the same for those who are weaker? How can we demand rights for ourselves that we refuse these little humans? Or do you believe that they magically become human on passing completely through their mother's birth canal?

Kind regards,
cjs

[Dana Gold]

Your pointing out the abuse of babies is only one of the reasons I have volunteered to help with being a virtual volunteer for BLO. I am presently awaiting word from Betsy, who is currently very busy. I do however shun from being an active demonstrator in public, being arrested they would put me in with the males, who would have their way with me, as well as have a good laugh when they look between my legs (I have not yet had "the surgery" since mine would have to be a special one due to lack of "viable tissue" for it) I have been tormented, beaten and sexually abused during my puberty and young adult years, and was rejected by my father and mother (mother came back at age 7.....my grandparents raised me in a cloistered existence from baby.... I know very well the meaning of abuse AND that is my concern...Abuse of ANY kind. I will do what I can and have also volunteered for activites here at the University as part of rights/issues here on campus. I am also active in my religious group. Peace to you and all human beings, especially to those yet "clinically unborn"...birth, to me, occurs at moment of conception.

Dana

[Dana Gold]

Data wrote: "Do others feel that soon we will be like the Jews in Nazi Germany?"


Sometimes I still do feel like the character Data on the TV show Star Trek, "he" was in the external mold of male, but actually neither male or female....fashioned/programmed to be so. With me I've hated being and living male, hated having been forcibly raised such, hated been given male hormones (and God only knows what else) and hated myself for believing "them" and then trying to be "normal" As I stated before , I'm not the typical/classical TS...not even the typical alien either I suppose.. but today is sort of one of my "alien" days, so please excuse my rhetoric., but that's the way I feel.

[claraJane]

Dear Dana,

No Xenophobia here. Although I do admit that my battle strategy is similar to Ender Wiggins. Sorry about the typo.

Part of what helped me survive it all was believing that it was happening to someone else and not really me. Putting the past behind is still the toughest problem to deal with but life really is worth the living.

If I offend people at times I usually don't mean to. Hope that you're getting at least some support here. Betsy's a good kid but, as you say, she's kinda busy.

cjs
Intellectus merces est fide

[Dana Gold]

No offense taken, claraJane,

I get into these moods occasionally, and it is my personal battle to live life and put the past behind me, but , living female has been my normalcy, quite natural to me...I have finally after decades integrated myself, just to find out that now I get degraded and/or not taken seriously for being TS (mostly from the medical/psychological sh*ts, and some from ignorant normals), these are the triggers for past abuses, which is why I have thoughts of going somewhere (Europoe) that noone knows I'm IS, TS or any other S's or labels, or my past
for that matter ( I "transitioned" in the community/job where everybody knew me as male before.)...just another face in the crowd.....a human face, not TS, IS, queer alien, etc face.

[RGMCjim]

Dana,
With the exception of my birth certificate all my legal documents read, James D. Costich male. Everything. I was legally married to a woman (I thought it would prove I was a man. No one ever believed I was straight - certainly not my "wife" who fag hagged around all the gay bars with me. God I was an idiot.) I am an adoptive father to a son. In the 1970's and 80's I could do all that without a birth certificate. All my other documents were obtained without a birth certificate. NONE OF THAT WOULD BE POSSIBLE NOW BECAUSE A BIRTH CERTIFICATE IS REQUIRED FOR ALL OF IT as part of the post 911 security insanity. All it would take for me to loose my legal status as a male would be for someone to contest it in court. I would not, however gain legal status as a female.

Despite an entire life as a man the court is refusing to give me a birth certificate change because I have no more anatomical claim to being male than female and they want to treat me like a transsexual because they have ways of dealing with that - which of course would be to tell me "no" because I have not , can not and will not follow the Harry Benjamin Standards for Care because I"M NOT A TRANSSEXUAL and I haven't changed from something to something. I'm just the same hermaphroditic me I've always been. My lawyer is looking for ways to fight this. My doctors are behind me. Maybe I'll end up as Lambda Legal's next case. I can't even go to Canada anymore. I can not get a passport. If I were young and intersexed OR transsexual I would not even be able to get a social security card without a birth certificate anymore which means every employer I have would have to wrestle through the inconsistency of the sex on record with social security and the sex I live. Yes, this is all getting worse.

England is moving toward a central registry of transsexuals, (and one would assume that will eventually include intersexed people), - like the sex offender's registry we have in the states.

Australia and New Zealand are totally different in their approach to us.

What is Germany up to? If you can still get a passport to go there it might be a good idea to check it out. If not you could probably find out info on the web. Tim (my partner) has a cousin and his partner who emigrated from East Berlin about 6 years ago. They might be able to find out - they're still very connected to the GLBT community back home.

I love BLO. I want to do more with BLO.

Like you, I have absolutely no intention of getting arrested for anything. An MtF and I just gave a seminar to the social workers at Action for a Better Community. They said that intersexed people and transsexuals have to be "seperated out" for their own protection in prison in NY. I asked if "seperated out" meant solitary confinement and wasn't that considered the most severe punishment a prisoner could suffer, so weren't they being given cruel and unusual punishment seeing as they were being given the worst they could get based on what they are and not their behavior? The social workers sheepishly agreed but our prison system has nothing else to offer. My volunteering will stop shy of arrest, but most of what I do doesn't include the risk of that.

Keep the faith. Despite the crap we go through it could be worse. We could be males or females. If I'm never more than a second class citizen at least I won't live someone else's life under a borrowed identity any more.

As a father I want to see to it that Queer kids, including my own have it better than I had. My gay son brought a 15yr old MtF transitioning (lives full time and is on hormones) transsexual as his date to Tim's and my Holy Union last month. I'm so happy for this generation I would cry. A lesbian friend of mine is a high school teacher who has a student who is intersexed, has partial AIS and was assigned female. She identifies with and is readily identified as a teenage girl. She's lesbian. No one banked on that. She didn't realize she has one functioning testicle in her labia and ended up impregnating her girlfriend. Her family and doctors imediately started pressuring her to have an orchiectomy bacuase she shouldn't have male fertility if she's a woman. Her teacher blew the whistle and called foul, helped her get REAL help and the result was she refused to be defined by the gender police and is keeping her fertility because she wants it. If I can do ANYTHING to help this stuff in any way it's worth all my past and present suffering.

Keep the faith. When everything seems like it's ending it usually means something is about to begin.

Jim Costich

[Dana Gold]

Dear Jim,

Thanks ever so much fior your sharing, not just for me, but for others on the BLO website also. Yes, the "Home Security" thing is damning. I, too, am becoming more active, I'm 53 and it's time for me to contribute my energy to the cause of doing something about the wretched affairs that we are all aware of. Germany and some of the other western European countries do treat us better legally, but that, I am certain, doesn't preclude negativity from individuals who are still infested with "the disease" of ignorance, prejudice, and hatred. I am feeling better today after coming out of my own darkness of a few days, even switched my avatar back to the kindly face from the brooding alien. By the by, Your relating of your son and his friends is wonderful and very heart-warming . Mother Nature is indeed fascinating in her diversity of humankind... if only the so-called normals could see the beauty in it, but as you and Betsy have indicated: we'll just have to see about that. (actually, a very few do, but I don't consider them really in that league, so they don't deserve the "n" word)
PS: I'm awaiting news (retrurn letter) from my biological sister in Germany, who I have never actually known (except for brief introduction in '68 when I returned to Germany) and have been out ofcontact for decades, she will fill me in on the "empty years". Take care.

Dana

[Betsy]

Change is both a personal ideal and social ideal. How we approach it and recognize it can be vastly different for each of us. I would think that each of us are here for vastly different reasons---for very intimate personal reasons, to make it known how we feel, kinship, whatever. In doing so, we each make change in our own world.

Some of us are very public about who we are, others not so, but change still occurs. If the words, "I am intersexed" have ever crossed your lips think about how life-changing that was for you, and for those you said it too. We can dream about how it might be different or better elsewhere, but is it really?

First and foremost, we have to live with ourselves, in our own comfort level. Sure, I wish more IS people would come out and scream to the world who they are, but I understand very well how difficult that can be and why people don't do it.

Jim, as someone who speaks often and interacts with lots of young queer people, I also recognize the differences between today and "then". I envy how far we have come in only a few short years to acceptance for being queer and young. Sure, the detractors are many but at least there are resources today which were not there when I was growing up. I not only had a queer body with no clue why but was a lesbian and it was a very scary time for me.

I'm not afraid to get arrested for speaking out. Our message is too important. If that's what it takes to get the message across, so be it (look for the bail money pleas soon). I get too pissed off when I see state officials call us "freaks of nature" I get pissed off when I see people using us to make their points against queer people, I get pissed off when I read stuff that includes IS but the writer doesn't have a clue about what we are all about.

Yeah, I am a bit pissed off on many levels. Call me sad historical footnote and I'll show you exactly how sad I am.

We have important work to do.

Betsy

[Betsy]

Speaking of post 9/11 horrors, we all need to make sure that we are involved in 2004. Please make sure you participate. If you need help finding out how to do it in your community, please let me know via private email

Betsy

[Dana Gold]

After the last few days of being on a psychological merry-go-'round, I've settled down somewhat and reflected on my sentiments to "get the h*ll outta Dodge" and I'm sitting at my desk (after hours) thinking about just that and after reading Betsy's latest post I thought:what a huge undertaking it would be: at 53 yrs of age I would be literally starting all over again..employment, friends, the personal progress I've made in my everyday life..the fight for medical benefits...that's not to say I don't have the desire to move away...I still do....but (and there's the rub) the anxiety of it all, plus leaving hard-to-come by friendships and the things I've already involved with here: my involvment with the (GLBTI and Steering Committee) resource centers here at the University; my Buddhist group wherein I have junior members to take care. And then, Betsy's message ...and I know it's my panic and anxiety fuelling the response to get away, hide and lock out the rest of the world. .BUT I'm still and always will be averse to putting myself in the position to possibly getting . I don't trust medical authorities, I trust the police even less. So for now and the immediate future I will stay put and fight the fight...yes, Betsy, I'll do it...because (and it's quite obvious from some of my posts) I am also and still "mad as hell and I won't take it anymore", and I will help others to where they don't have to take it anymore either. So now, I go home and try to get some sleep.. I will say one thing...thanks to BLO for being a place that I could release a lot of my feelings and thoughts, without others like Betsy who fought for this, I would not have had the opportunity to do so.

Dana

[RGMCjim]

Dana & Everyone,
One of the things I identified with the most in the past was VanGough's "Scream". A few years ago it started popping up in the GLBT community on everything from t-shirts to umbrellas and I realized that I wasn't alone. We are a legion, crying.


My old song (everything is singing with me):

Scarecrow's Dream, Dan Fogelberg

Seldom seen a scarecrow's dream,
I hang in the hope of replacement.
Castles tall I built them all,
but I dream that I'm trapped in the basement.
And if you ever hear me calling out,
If you've been by Paupers crowned,
Between the worlds of men and make-believe I can be found.

Plans I've made, a masquerade,
fading in fear of the coming day.
Hero's tales like nightingales wrestle the wind as they fly away.
If you ever hear them calling out,
If you've been by Paupers crowned,
Between the worlds of men and make believe I can be found.

Garden gate, an empty plate,
waiting for someone to come and fill.
Scarecrow's dreams like frozen streams,
thirst for the thaw, but they're running still!
If you ever hear me calling out,
If you've been by Paupers crowned,
Betweeen the worlds of men and make believe I can be found.


That's my old song. Someone (actually someones) finally coaxed me out of the basement and held me until I stopped screaming. Wanna hear my new song?

Jim

[Dana Gold]

Here's my song: (could be a lot of peoples' song, actually)
Guide to symbolisms:
My ship= mind and body
Home= well, at this moment, home is where my heart is... in my mind and my body....my ship is my home, my original home., my permanent "place of residence" until I depart this world, peacefully I hope.

Closer to Home (1970) by Grand Funk Railroad
LYRICS

Everybody, listen to me,
And return me, my ship.
I’m your captain, I’m your captain,
Although I’m feeling mighty sick.

I’ve been lost now, days uncounted,
And it’s months since I’ve seen home.
Can you hear me, can you hear me,
Or am I all alone.

If you return me, to my home port,
I will kiss you mother earth.
Take me back now, take me back now,
To the port of my birth.

Am I in my cabin dreaming, or are you really scheming,
To take my ship away from me?

You’d better think about it, I just can’t live without it.
So, please don’t take my ship from me.
Yeah, yeah, yeah ...

I can feel the hand, of a stranger,
And it’s tightening, around my throat.
Heaven help me, heaven help me,
Take this stranger from my boat.

I’m your captain, I’m your captain,
Although I’m feeling mighty sick.
Everybody, listen to me,
And return me, my ship.

I’m your captain, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I’m your captain, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I’m your captain, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I’m your captain, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I’m getting closer to my home ...
I’m getting closer to my home ...
I’m getting closer to my home ...
I’m getting closer to my home ...
Ohhhh ...

I’m getting closer to my home ...
I’m getting closer to my home ...
I’m getting closer to my home ...
I’m getting closer to my home ...
Repeated to fade
AND:
Jim, take care and PS: I sent you a PM yesterday.

[Andi]

Originally posted by Dana Gold
Adolf Hitler would be proud of the way things are going.

I don't mean to dump on what you posted, but have you ever heard of the "Hitler Rule" of debates? It states: The first person to mention Hitler...loses.

My interpretation of this is that since Hitler/the National Socialists (Nazis) are basically the poster children of hatefulness & oppressive societies, they are often used as a "fallback arguement" when someone lacks a real foundation for their position in a debate. I do see the point of view of whoever it was that came up with this "rule", since it's been my observation that very often when someone in an arguement or debate is backed into a corner, figuratively speaking, they tend to try comparing the "enemy" in their debate to Hitler. Since it's a bit overused, someone coined the "Hitler Rule"

For the record, I'm not saying your arguement lacks merit. In fact I say it is quite valid. I'm just suggesting that you might want to avoid nazi references, as some tend to take that as a sign of a weak foundation to your assertion.

You aslo said "I don't entertain the thought that Democrats are any less phobic of "sex"-variant human beings, they just wear a different mask." This sounds to me like something else I once heard "Democrats and Republicans...two wings on the same bird."

Well, I've said my piece. You may acept it or reject it as you see fit.

Andi

[Dana Gold]

Hi Andi,

You make a good point, since being from Germany and and having been averse to hearing constant mention of Nazism, it is ironic that I get on the same "bandwagon". However, I used the reference in earnest, and I thank you for your reminder that such usage is indeed a weak foundation. I tend to get emotiional and as some more proficient debaters would know, emotional people have only emotional and not factual bases for their presentations. I am and have been wrestling with medical authorities for my basic health care and dealing with my alarmist mind inre past experiences and what I have read about present and past indiscretions/prejudices by our government and others in the world. My reactive mind snatched at the epitome of abusers....Nazis. Perhaps I would do well not to be so emotional, it's always gotten me with egg on my face before; and I have come to learn that I could better direct such energies toward active participation in helping to support movements that support democracy and human rights, because I still fervently believe that there is a lot of that in our world, here in the USA as well, and it angers me. For that I am part of my University's GLBTI Steering Comm on campus affairs, have volunteered for virtual help with BLO and member support of juniors wthin my religion. I wouldn't be much effective help by resorting to street-style ranting and raving within the realm of these activities AND for that reason I consider your reply to me as very noteworthy and valuable...thank you again...and as an addendum, I really did need to vent **** out of me and now I'm ready for the next step....thanks again to BLO and the members who have read my sometimes vitrolic posts for affording me a place to "unload". Bye and take care.

[Dana Gold]

quote

I still fervently believe that there is a lot of that in our world, here in the USA as well, and it angers me.

what I meant was that there is a lot of (that) mistreatment of people, IS, TS, and other S's by people who consider themselves "normal" and I just reminded myself that the "n" word is another for me to avoid since I would turn off the wrong people by such usage in the public..live and learn..but a beneficial thing if I am to engage in public affairs....

Dana

[Andi]

Well, I'm glad to know you took what I said in the way it was intended. All day I've worried a little about the possibility you might have taken it wrong.

Anyway, I can understand the need to occasionally vent. We all need that sometimes.

Andi :)

Originally posted by Dana Gold
Hi Andi,

You make a good point, since being from Germany and and having been averse to hearing constant mention of Nazism, it is ironic that I get on the same "bandwagon". However, I used the reference in earnest, and I thank you for your reminder that such usage is indeed a weak foundation. I tend to get emotiional and as some more proficient debaters would know, emotional people have only emotional and not factual bases for their presentations. I am and have been wrestling with medical authorities for my basic health care and dealing with my alarmist mind inre past experiences and what I have read about present and past indiscretions/prejudices by our government and others in the world. My reactive mind snatched at the epitome of abusers....Nazis. Perhaps I would do well not to be so emotional, it's always gotten me with egg on my face before; and I have come to learn that I could better direct such energies toward active participation in helping to support movements that support democracy and human rights, because I still fervently believe that there is a lot of that in our world, here in the USA as well, and it angers me. For that I am part of my University's GLBTI Steering Comm on campus affairs, have volunteered for virtual help with BLO and member support of juniors wthin my religion. I wouldn't be much effective help by resorting to street-style ranting and raving within the realm of these activities AND for that reason I consider your reply to me as very noteworthy and valuable...thank you again...and as an addendum, I really did need to vent **** out of me and now I'm ready for the next step....thanks again to BLO and the members who have read my sometimes vitrolic posts for affording me a place to "unload". Bye and take care.

[RGMCjim]

Hitler is passe as the universal embodiment of hatred. Perverted political ideology is just so lame when you can have twisted RELIGION!!

Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson..... they're the new Hitler. Hitler had nothing on the old abusers of religion either. How 'bout that Spanish Inquisition and the genocide of South American indigenous people because their religion was a stench in "Christian" (word used loosely - they did't resemble Christ at all) nostrils. Pseudo-Christianity has done more persecution, genocide, tyrany and death that Hitler - a rank amatuer.

Here we are about to celabrate Thanksgiving in the US and Canada - the holiday where Pilgrims who had fled religious persecution in Europe had come to starve to death after their crops failed and the Native Americans came to bail them out. Those same Native Americans were slaughtered as heathen savages!

There is just a vast flowing sewer of hatred and intollerance out there and the Queer are primary targets at the moment. When I look at the lives and characters of all the other people who've been on their shit list I'm proud to march in that number....when the saints go marching in........ I'll be singing in the choir!!

Jim

[claraJane]

Jim, it really sounds to me like you're the one spewing hatred. I don't know how may other Christians there are who post here but I, for one, get a little tired of being flamed without cause. Show me where I've messed up, Jim, and I'll ask your forgiveness. I'm not a fundamentialist but I seriously doubt that Falwell or Robertson have ever murdered anyone. Give it a rest.

Kind regards,
cjs

[uriela]

The Beattitudes

Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of Heaven;
Blessed are they who mourn,
for they shall be comforted;
Blessed are the meek,
for they shall possess the earth;
Blessed are they who hunger and thirst for justice
for they shall be satisfied;
Blessed are the merciful
for they shall obtain mercy;
Blessed are the clean of heart,
for they shall see God;
Blessed are the peacemakers
for they shall be called children of God;
Blessed are they who suffer persecution for justice' sake,
for theirs is the kingdom of Heaven;
Blessed are you when men reproach you, and
persecute you, and
speaking falsely, say all manner of evil against you,
for my sake.

[uriela]

Actually, Jim,

Falwell and Robertson are rather passe now. Hitler is dead. Reagan is no longer president. We have a whole new bunch of idiots to deal with. Yes, CJ, as far as I am concerned, Falwell and Robertson are idiots and bigots. If they are Christian, (I really do think that is in name only, and not fact) they are Christian idiots and Christian bigots. They have their own value system and I don't relate it very well to Christ.

I really think the so-called "fundamentalists" (Whose fundamentals? Theirs! Not mine!) are closed minded. I would really rather not talk about them, or even be angry with them, because in that way I give them power over me. And, I have precious little power as that is.

I e-mailed someone on a list who was filled with more hatred than I could ever think of. He was anti-abortion, among other things. He was banned from the list because he insisted trannies were going to hell. He asked me to tell him exactly what I was and when I did he posted my e-mail to his web site with the heading about this deluded "man" who was going to hell.

Yeah, he was "Christian" all right.

And I stopped communication with him and let it stay there, and I felt like Christ on the cross with INRI written out over his head. To Pilate that was a jab and a warning to those who wanted to have Christ there.

I'm Catholic and I just stopped going to mass where I used to. The priest told me that I was the problem. It's poisoned my relation to them. And of course that priest is not the church and maybe I should continue to go, anyway.
But, if they felt that just by being there, by being myself, I was "sticking it in their faces", well....

I'm not going to play by their rules, so I guess that I don't belong. It has been a very trying experience, and maybe I have not behaved the best, but I just don't need that stuff right now. I had felt myself to be on the fringe for a long time, and this gives me the impetus to cut loose.

Peace

[Betsy]

Originally posted by claraJane
I seriously doubt that Falwell or Robertson have ever murdered anyone. Give it a rest.


Maybe not directly, but I personally believe they have much blood on their hands. When Falwell blamed 9/11 on queer people, feminists, and everyone else he despises, he put us in the crosshairs. When Robertson suggests nuking the State Dept, he is dirtying his hands in a most distasteful way.

Unfortunately, the hateful rhetoric that some who consider themselves Christian is dangerous. For many within our community, it is truly homegrown terrorism directed at us because of who we are.

I believe that most Christians are wonderful, loving, welcoming people. One thing that hits me time and time again in my activism is how most get it... Our issues cross many barriers.

However, I also see how Christianity is used as a weapon of hate and oppression. Here's only one example: http://www.crosswalk.com/news/weblogs/mohler/?adate=11/4/2003#1228912

A quick peek at the websites of organizations like Focus on The Family and other similar ones will illustrate the inordinate amount of attention they pay to homosexuality and other "deviants" like us. And worse, they use as targets because they don't bother to learn about us and really have no clue what we are all about and the surgery issues we are concerned about.

The danger is lumping all people with similar beliefs into the same file. It's not the way it works...heck, it doesn't even work that way within our own community.

Betsy

[claraJane]

Dear Betsy,

While I agree that there are plenty of people who use religion as an excuse for hatred, the example that you give seems fairly mild. I certainly didn't see any hate-speech. In fact...

"Christians must respond to all persons with sympathy and compassion even as we must speak with honesty."

You may disagree with his interpretation of the Bible, as I most certainly do. However, his speech doesn't seem to merit the appelation of "bigotry". (And, really, I believe you, so it's not necessary to find a better example!)

You might be interested to know that I've had quite cordial communications with Focus on the Family and the Evangelical Church Alliance (the UK group that is so anti-trans). They were quite open to discussing intersexuality and the issues that we face. Yes, they are fairly vocal in their opposition to homosexuality. And, I admit that the Bible seems quite clear about how God feels about it.

However, the Bible is also quite clear that we, as Christians, are to treat all people with compassion. He sent his son to die for sinners like me and the Bible makes it quite clear that none of us merit salvation by our own goodness. I will be with God in heaven some day. This isn't because I'm good because I'm certainly not. I readily admit that. It's because God accepts me because I have faith in his son. And he gave me that faith so I can't even take credit for that. So, my main purpose now is to tell others that they too can have eternal life through faith in Christ. And how often do I stand here and preach even that to you?

And Betsy, the issue issue isn't whether or not someone is straight. The issue is whether or not they're in right standing with God. That is something that Christians easily forget. When you stopped by to visit John and me, did I say word one of condemnation? Did I not greet you warmly and offer you our hospitality? I don't pray "God please show Betsy how wicked she is and make her nice like me." I pray "God please share that wonderful grace with her that you've shown me. Take away that awful pain and heartbreak. And forgive me for any way that I've contributed to it." And I would freely pray the same for Dana and Jim. And for a certain friend who recently left our circle.

I'm truly sorry that people who call themselves Christians have hurt y'all. But I will also say that hate speech from either side is counter-productive. Attributing homophobia and other evil intent to groups like Focus on the Family only makes it more difficult for people like me to make any headway with them regarding intersex.

Betsy, you have to reach people where they are and most Christian groups with whom I've corresponded are much more receptive to talking about intersex and gender issues with someone who doesn't prejudge them and who is polite. Isn't that what we expect when others approach us?

Kind regards,

Jen

[Betsy]

Oh gosh no Clara Jane. That's the point I was trying to make...there are good and there are bad. I consider you and John pretty high up in the good pinnacle!

Betsy

[Dana Gold]

I am going to say something that will most likely raise the hairs on some, BUt silent I will be no longer because as a human being and denizen of this planet I tremble and cry when I read and absorb the meaning of the passages below. Keep in mind that other religions , not just Christianity espouse similar doctrines:
The excerpt below was taken from Focus's website.

Focus on the Family is promoting the truth that homosexuality is preventable and treatable

I.E.: homosexuality is a disease and sin.
(homo defined as GLBT and the IS who are T, like me!!
Treatment: Prayer and Psychological counseling to eradicate the "devil's infestation"
Compassion: Feel sorry for these wretched sinners and lead them to God.

HOWEVER:
I am going to reiterate my viewpoint that ALL religions have strayed from their original intent that we (ALL human beings) are God's "children" , if we are to be deemed diseased and sinful, then the adherents that advocate such, are equally diseased and sinful, whether Christianity, Islam, Hindu, Buddhist...whatever.....it is Human Nature that is the culprit....as stated by a very nice alien in the Movie "Contact" ( Jodie Foster stars)
"Human Beings are capable of the most beautiful dreams and the most horrible of nightmares".

Advocating that one religion is better than another is contrary to humanity... and the notion that if we don't accept one particular religion's diety, we are doomed to hell (even if we are gracious, humane contributors to society) is wrong. Democracy and human rights for one class of people and not another is wrong. Viewing different sexual and gender identities as deviant is wrong. Fighting with each other to proclaim that our viewpoint is correct above others is counter-productive and leads to polarizaftion. I look forward to the day when all human political, religious, ethnic, racial, camps can come together to learn, listen, engage in meaningful dialogue and accept the reality that we as human beings, are all different, just as all the plant and animal life in nature.....we are LIFE, all LIFE is precious, to denigrate it is wrong, a slander against LIFE itself. I especially look forward to the day when the word Sex as in GLBTI doesn't carry with it connotations of sin and evil. But then, I always have been a dreamer, maybe not in my lifetime.....Like in the Movie "Seven" ..Morgan Freeman: "The world is still worth fighting for".

[Dana Gold]

PS:
I used to tremble and cry because as the recipient of beatings I feared, I tremble and cry TODAYfrom anger and the realiztion that during the last (what?) 10,000 yrs of human civilization that intersexed, transgendered and "homosexual" human beings having existed as NO threat to the continued lives of others, that twisted ideologies and phikosophies STILL regard all such human beings as abnormal, deviant and in need of "correction and control"!....SOME "human beings are capable of the most horrible of nightmares"...

[claraJane]

Dear Dana,

I believe that you're mistaken. Both of these groups are aware that I rejected the gender that was assigned me. Neither was anything but cordial in their communications, although the British group plainly stated that it was their view that I should "return" to the gender of my youth. Certainly both groups believe that people can and do change and that they can and do make choices.

I never quite understood the vehemence with which some claimed that NO ONE can change their sexual preferences. Absolute negatives are rather difficult to prove and if someone were to tell me that they'd changed theirs I wouldn't call them a liar without at least checking out their story.

I also never quite understand it when people claim that all religions are equally valid. Different religions make different, often conflicting, claims. If there is no god then all religions that claim otherwise must be mistaken. On there other hand, if God exists, and I believe that He does, what matters isn't what you or I think about Him but what He thinks about us, neh?

Kind regards,
Jen

[Dana Gold]

Dear Clara Jane,

In retrospect I think it is ultimately important that how we think of ourselves and the relationship we have with our faith is indeed important...and my sympathies to you inre your dialogue with others who don't quite understand the issue of gender and your sense of self ... if I were in your shoes, I would be hurt....actually I have experienced somewhat the same.
And, please accept my humble apology if maybe I have hurt your feelings on this matter OR questioned your faith...it was not meant to be so OR to question the validity of all or just one religion...we are all human, I wish the world could just look at it that way. I commend the work you are doing with others, we are all special in our own unique way.

Thoughtfully and with respect,

Dana

[claraJane]

Dear Dana,

No offence taken girl. And, I hope I've given none to you nor Jim nor Betsy.

Dana, when I was first introduced to the Lord, I was 17 and naive. I assumed that I could become the boy that my parents expected me to be. What I discovered, however, was that God wanted me to be the same person on the outside as on the inside. And so he destroyed the shell in which I'd been hiding. I felt like my skin had been peeled away. Honesty hurts.

So, I left home. I was fine until campus security, on a routine stop, asked to see my ID. Then I was given the choice of therapy or home. The shrink from Hopkins said I had to try being male homosexual. No one bothered to actually examine me to see if I could pull it off.

So I cut my hair, bought a motorcycle, and played extreme games on the streets. I got stopped riding side-saddle, weaving through rush-hour traffic. The cop screamed every four-letter word he could think of at me until I started crying, took off my helmet, and told him I was sorry. I'm not sure whether it was my face or my voice, but he just shook his head, walked back to his car, and drove off.

I went back to the doctors for the first time in a decade. It was either that or die on the streets. I was 20 to 25 pounds under-weight, anemic, and depressed. My development level was Tanner 2 (the sexual development of a 12-14 year old). They wanted to put me on anabolic steroids and testosterone. They'd "make a real stud" of me.

Dana, you know that we sometimes tell the doctors what they want to hear. My ovatestes were about worthless for anything but cancer. The rest of my body was about as masculine as my ovatestes were. I had to take hormones for my health. So I told them estrogen and told them I desperately needed to be a girl. I wasn't sure that I wanted to be a woman but I could at least have a life as a girl. What I really wanted was to not have testosterone destroy what was left of "me."

Dana, that was 1974. And sometimes I forget the pain and have a more difficult time sympathizing with what others are going through. I hope that you're able to reach a place of contentment.

Kind regards,
cjs

[Dana Gold]

Dearest Clara Jane,

Thank you ever so much for sharing your pain and experience. Your words touched me, I have lived what I consider only an existence for decades... up till the time I finally relented to that inner insistence that I hated having lived as and could not any longer live as male, partly because I regarded it as alien to me, and a lot because I wanted back what could have been had I not been "pumped up" with male hormones in childhood and been indoctrinated with maleness(step-father was especially brutal about it) Prior to that decision and realization I could not, being a science nerd, accept that I was "transgendered" because my environment told me that it was an abnormal psychological condition, as was my "weird body" anormal....i.e.: abnormal body=abnormal mind.And there was no real "proof" that such a condition could exist OR be regarded as anything else other than abnormal. Not until I began to let faith take precedence over science did I finally accept my own intersex condition, as well as my sense of self. It was Faith not Science that was my personal redemption...the same faith spoken about in the movie "Contact". God, however any person's concept may be, does not reside "out there", but within the beauty of our own lives and others. That humanity is what really propelled me to be "myself" and my "transition" is a reclamation of my life, my energy (spiritual and psychological self) in oneness with my anatomical self. (body). My barbed rhetoric sometimes reflects the anger I feel when a "stranger" tries to take my "ship" from me and from others who have the same life experience.. like you, dear. Take care. Hugs. Peace and love.

Dana

[RGMCjim]

My partner Tim is a professional church musician. He started playing professionally 32 years ago. I'm a church musician - I've been singing in church all my life. In the 10 years we've been together we have been in music ministry the entire time. He and I help people to pray every Sunday for more years than most people go to church at all, and we are 100% Queer.

For 5 years we ran a Gay Men's Bible Study group in conjunction with a Dr. of Div. (Fuller Seminary) and an ex-Pentacostal professor of music - all gay of course. We saw heart wrenching self hatred that had been screwed onto gay men and women, and later transsexuals. One of my biggest heros is an MtF Transsexual who ran a mission of homeless men for 25yrs. October is a nationally celebrated month of rememberance for all the transgendered who have been brutally murdered each year and she holds a memorial service. It was a long journey out of shame.

Tim was raised in a Pentacostal church where the ministers screamed that down beneath drunks, thieves, rapists and murderers were the homosexuals. He was suicidal for years starting in his early teens believing that God hated him. All the while people were able to worship God because of his organ playing while he was dying inside believing himself damned by God and outside humanity. His name is legion.

I was raised in the Episcopal and later Lutheran church and have been a member of Methodist and Presbyterian, and MCC Churches but am happiest with Catholocism. I can't convert because of it's tragic struggle with human sexuality- just can't go there till that gets fixed - it's spiritually toxic. My own mom told me as a teenager that if I was so convinced God had created me as I am and loved me I should go to God because there was no place for freaks like me on Earth. This came as a result of her being rejected by all her woman friends at her church because they held her responcible for "what I was". These were not people grounded in the Love that Paseth All Understanding..... She later left that church and found one based on love, not conformation. I didn't loose my faith. Mom did.

Right now Tim is Artist in Residence/ Music Director at a Methodist church where I support his ministry. I sing, direct a bell choir and am chairman of the worship committe. The minister is fantastic and the congregation is welcoming. The denomination is anything but, so we would never join as members. We have not always been met by such love and respect in straight churches. Our actual membership is Dignity/Integrity.

I could teach a 3 credit course on Gay Theology with one month to pull my stuff together, but that's not necessary. So many have done an incredible job. Just do a search on Gay, religion at amazon.com and you'll find that the Bible does NOT condemn homosexuality. You'll learn that the church did same sex unions for a 1000 years. If you delve deeper you'll learn that the books missing from the Old Testament Christian but still present in Judaica tell of a hermaphrodite named Lilith who pre-dated Adam and Eve. The idea here is that hermaphodism pre-dates male and female, which of course is exactly how flora and fauna on this planet have developed over time. No time for books? Check out soulforce.org or whosoever.org and find the condensed version and sleep better tonight.

I've run the race, walked the walk and have ministered to a few of the spiritually mutilated who searched for truth and only learned the lie of the closet. GLBTI people are still injured every day by the abuse of religion that twists the good news into a legalistic rationalization of societal bigotry and bias. People do in fact die at the hands of others who have been taught to hate gender/orientation variant people. Wanna nose full? Check out Godhatesfags.com Remember that Matthew Shepard was crucified-literally by a young man who was struggling with his own sexuality. Sometimes teaching hate is done with words, sometimes by example.

My brother's ex wife was a right wing fundamentalist. She home schooled her children, owned a paddle with their names written on it that was enscribed by the "minister" and was used to "discipline" them. There was no room in her religion for the likes of me. I was prevented from seeing my nieces and nephew. In fact, she cut my mother off from her grandchildren because she would not reject me and was a Unitarian Universalist and therefore a Witch! After she ran out on my brother he told me, "You know that song you used to sing at the top of your lungs on the swing when you were little? (Praise Him, Praise Him all ye little children, God is Love!) Well I've just come from a place where God is fear." I live my faith, I know my God and His/Her name is Love, not fear. My brother can't go into a church anymore. He has panic attacks. I was the persecuted and yet I am still here and they are gone. It's so bizarre.

Our faith is very important, and just like Isaac, if we wander around the desert dying of thirst only to stumble on the wells dug by our ancestors, yet chased away by the current occupants.....they may own the wells we used to come to for "living water". But THEY DON'T OWN THE WATER. Dig your own well! It was Jesus who told us that from our own hearts living springs would burst. It's not THEIR church to decide who is or isn't worthy to be there. It's God's church and we all belong in our "Father's House".

My Daddy called me an Angel when others called me a freak. He said Angels are neither male or female but kinda both and that is what I am. You're all Angels too. Choir rehearsal is Wednesdays at 7:00pm.

Jim C.