Sellout

[Intersexed Princess]

I often feel like a sellout because I made a deliberate choice of playing up my feminine characteristics. Yet, I still don't identify with other women. Just don't relate to the tribe. Even though I only carry their chromosomes and organs.

Though, it really doesn't matter because soon as the men I have relationships with see, feel the results of the gash and scars.... oh....I mean genital surgeries. I suddenly become just a good drinking buddy and nothing more. These are not shallow people but they lose desire when they realize I have sensation at all and that the body part of their interest is nothing but a surgically altered hole and the other part is actually missing. Geeez ....you don't have much down there .......hummmmmm.


I've been going out with the same guy on and of for abut a year. Like the rest of the men that I've dated, the birth defect of CAH and the virilization behind it didn't bother him. But what made him feel weird/guilty was the results of the surgery. Look of disapointment on his face was to much for me. We finally called an end to it last night. Like the others, we still remain friends.

I have an oportunity in a month or so to meet the surgeon that performed the surgery on me, I have weird feelings about that one. He already said," how saddened" that he was. At least he took respondsibility for that part. That does mean something. He's just a puppet of this society. This society is appalled by what I was born with ...GIRLS CAN'T HAVE THAT ...even if it didn't bother me. I wasn't afforded any human rights. I'm thought to be strange that I didn't have any trouble with what I was born with. I had a gyno tell me that girls like you would of been rasied as boys. I was in a bad postion to argue with him but I thought to myself why not let a child like us just be what we are? So what ...I wasn't born with genitals that fit the description of what a female or male genitals are supposed to be .....bid deal.....just let me, be me. And later, I'll pick the type of surgery I want.

Betsy, I think you will stop some people from having clitoral surgery on some babies with enlarged clitorises but someone born like me is at the losing end of societal norms. The doctors will use their scalpels to put us inside the box.

Victoria, yes I'm the same Aimee on the other message boards. I just like the name Kelly, I'm also partial to the name Erin. Heck...my name might not even be Aimee (lol) but everything I've written is me. I can't register here but you can Email me at MsOrbit27@<hidden> you said once that you wanted to send me a message.

I can feel that I'm cracking up and nothing really matters. I got a raise and bought a new car to console myself that once again in the last twelve years a realtionship has been destroyed because of surgeries that were done in my best interest. Tough cookies for me.

Sincerely,

Intersexed Princess AKA Good Freak 1

[Intersexed Princess]

Typo from above post it should read *No sensation at all.

If I offended anyone I really am sorry. I dont seem to say the right things here.

[Betsy]

Hiya Kelli...,

Please don't think you're offending or that you need to apologize here...you don't...ever! This is really your space, and Victoria's space, and C-R's space, and everyone else's space who may now be posting or whoever the unknown ones are that will post in the future.

Thanks tons for posting.

Betsy

[Glenn]

I can't speak for anyone else, but I'd only be offended if you were dishonest with us.

'Not part of the tribe' rings awful familiar... Makes me wonder - are we a tribe no one wants to exist? Or a zillion tribes with one unique person in each?

I want to a medical site (Johns Hopkins) for clarification on CAH, and noticed that they refer to 'reconstructive' genital surgery. Guess that shows how disconnected they are from reality - how do you reconstruct something which was never there? Who are they to say you're "wrong" for being different? I know it's a moot point; still insulting though.

Glenn

[Intersexed Princess]

where for out thou?

[C-R]

Hey Kelli,

Sorry, I haven't been posting much, I've been spending my days out of town. I read your posts...Thanks for expressing yourself so intimately with us. :)

God bless,
CR

[Az1]

You are one of the lucky ones who has spent the time researching your surgery.

I can communicate with both genders because I am beyond thinking in terms of male and female.

Guess it is something that is taught to treat all the same.

No boundries or limits to anyones individualism.

Have a nice day
Az 1

Muhoe

[Victoria]

Yeah, I'm still here but I've been busy trying to find a job and write my dissertation proposal. I think I've been sort of successful on the job front but nada as far as the proposal goes.

I wrote you back several messages last week but got kicked off line and thus was unable to send them. I was responding you your email about feeling like a traitor or whatever for trying to play up your feminine characterisitice. I will have to try to resend you that message when I have more time to write and be kicked off line and then try again :)

Got to go back to the grind now. I wish you well and hope that you've been playing up your feminine traits quite nicely in these warm summer days. As for myself, I wish I was able to make it to the beach more and play up my femininity more these days (did anyone say bikini, lol, seems like forever since I was last in one of those!) Anyway, I had no qualms about playing up my feminine side. No really, I understand what you mean and I'm just trying to see the humor here and say I'm not mad at you!!!

Take care,

Victoria

[Intersexed Princess]

Dear Victoria:

I don't understand the humor in any of this but thanks for the post. I guess you have never had a man tap you on the shoulder and ask you if you were a man or woman ? Even though you were wearing a skirt? I looked him right in the eye and told him nether. He laughed, slaped my back and walked away. And thats just on one occasion. There was another time when kindly elderly people were arugueing about what sex I was, whlie I was wearing a skirt and panty hose. Finally one man proudly annouced I was A shemale. Or the numerous times people have said thank you sir or excuse me young man? I don't understand how you can see humor here after the reading my original post.

Jokes on me.


Thanks to all that posted and a big puzzlement to the 90 plus that just viewed the post. Not worth it was it.

[Victoria]

Hi Aimee,

I did not mean to offend you. I guess I did not think that you were being serious when you said that you felt like a sellout for playing up your feminine characteristics. I really am sorry that people were so rude to you and asked what sex you were and called you a she-male.

No, I've never been asked me if I was a guy or a girl. However, my partner's have been since they are more on the butch side. I have been called names for being a lesbian though. It sucks that there are ignorant, hurtful people out there.

Why do you feel bad for playing up your feminine characteristics? Sounds to me that you want to play up your femininity. Who are you selling out to? When I said I wasn't mad at you I meant that I don't care if you play up your femininity or masculinity or whatever, you are the same person regardless of that. It has been my experience that people who are IS span the entire spectrum of female to male, with most folks being somewhere in the middle. I guess what matters most is if you are comfortable with yourself no matter where you fall on the continuum.

Take care,

Victoria

[Victoria]

Hi, it's Victoria again.

I was just reading through my last post and realized that I had made a mistake. Although noone has asked me in my adult life if I was a guy or girl, it happened when I was a kid. Girlfriends of mine noticed that my genitals did not look like theirs and so assumed that I was a boy and then spread rumors throughout the school that I was a boy. I also had more upper lip hair than most of the girls in my 5th grade class so that was more reason for kids to think that I was a boy. At the time it really hurt my feelings because knowing I was different, I avoided showing others my genitals at all costs. However, when I did risk it, I got made fun of. In retrospect, I am no longer angry at my so-called friends that called me a boy. They were just little kids who saw me and thought that because my genitals did not look like theirs, I must not be a girl. Not knowing there could be any other options besides boy or girl, I had to be a boy.

Hope you are well,

Victoria

[Intersexed Princess]

So are you saying that you voided out of your clitoris like I did ?

I'm not allowed to exist ...slice ....slice ...slice better to be disfigued that in my natural state, according to this society.

You are lucky to have escaped genital surgery ( I think you said you didn't have any). Did you have any GANG examinations by residents. If you did, you must of passed their muster if you weren't butcher by their leader like I was.

People say forget about it move on. Those are the happy do gooders that don't have a care and they've never seen what something like this looks like and I see it every time I shower or go to the bathroom it's a constant reminder this society thinks something like me is to be scorned. EWWWW one parent said.

My orginal posts was about yet another failed relationship because of the genital surgeries. It is like why bother even trying to express any femininity because everything only ends up ruined anyway due to the clitorectomy and vaginoplasty. What the H**L was John Money thinking ?


Did you ever go see and Endocrinologist? Maybe you have LOCAH or maybe nothing at all. The society is way to narrow anyway. I think it would be easier to be a lesbian with CAH then a hetrosexual person. I'm in no way a lesbian ...no attraction at all for women....basically I relate more with M TO FEMALE OR Female to male transexuals even though I'm not one. Really I have no gender even though I'm a biological female with some excessive androgens.

like the surgery made a difference. Yeah right .....weeeeeeee

[Victoria]

Hi.

I will try to answer your questions as best as I can. First, in response to whether I void out of my clitoris, I am not sure. I know that when I go to the bathroom my urine sometimes comes out of two places--like there is two streams--one could be my clitoris. Yes, you are right that I never had the surgery done. I spent my whole life looking and feelings like a freak. Noone gave me answers to why I looked different done there. It was basically my job to try to piece things together. I still have not done so entirely yet. I was never examined by a "gang" of residents but was examined quite frequently by my ped who I remember would forcefully open my legs and poke around in there when I was younger. I hated going to the doctor. Still do. About a diagnosis of LOCAH, I have only had some blood work done (which came back with elevations) and I still want to see an endo but do not have the funds to do so presently.

Nobody in my family talks about anything much less my condition. I finally started researching intersex (although I had been aware about it for some time) and as of a few months ago finally had the courage to ask my father about it. He reluctantly admitted that he had known that my clit was larger than most girls growing up and just assumed that "my mother" had talked to me about it. Well, he assumed incorrectly. Whenever I broached the subject with my mom as a child she quickly cut of the conversation and told me that there was nothing different about me. She was and still is in denial.

One more thing. I had this mysterious operation when I was 8. One day the doctors told me that I had a hernia in my groin and that I would have to have an operation. Several weeks later I was placed under the knife and woke up with severe pain on each side of my groin and and scars that remain today. The surgery was out of the blue and I don't recall doing anything to develop a hernia. To this day I do not know what they removed from me. I asked my dad (the reputable source that he is) and he tells me that it was just a hernia. I, however, have my doubts. As my intersexed condition was never discussed why would this be any different??

Anyway, life might not be easier for you if you were a lesbian. Then you would have to deal with homophobia in addition to everything else you have to deal with. I think the key is to find someone (gender not so important) who loves you for you--genitals included! Oh, I know what you mean about looking at yourself everyday and feeling shame or something about what you see. I go through that every day as well.

Talk to you soon,

Victoria

[JUlia S]

Hi VIctoria,

I am the mother of a 2 year old girl with CAH. She has fused labia and an enlarged clitoris. We will have surgery to seperate the labia prepuberty, as studies have shown that the extra estrogen during this time will help keep the labia supple and pliable. We are leaving surgery on her clitoris up to her when she's old enough to fully understand the possible consequences. My question is since you have been through this, what can I do to help my daughter?. How can I make things go smoother for her? How do you wish things had been different? What do you wish you had been told? I am very willing to be open and discuss anything with her. I am very concerned about teasing. I will home school or move if it gets bad. I know how bad it can get as I am a teacher! Sometimes there is nothing you can do when a whole school is out to get one person. It's horrifying. Anyway, thank you in advance! Julia

[Victoria]

Dear Julia,

You sound like a very concerned mom who wants to be as educated as possible for your daughter. I think having a mom like you is the best thing for your daughter. I would be happy to answer any questions you have. You mentioned that you are open and honest with your child. That is so great! Since she will probably start to ask questions about her genitals (as all children do not only those who are IS) she will feel a lot more comfortable knowing that she can ask questions, even those that are tough, because you are not afraid to be open with her. Tell her the truth when she asks and let her know that she is not the only one who is different. Let her know that she is beautiful and special.

As far as the teasing goes, try not to be too worried. You are right that kids can be ruthless at times and tease for any number of things they find different. It will be up to your daughter how much she wants to share with others. I never showed anyone my genitals in school. It was only with my close friends that I revealed myself and was thus teased. This probably would not happen if my so-called friend had been an actual friend. Another thing is, do you know any other parents who have young children who have CAH? There are a number of message boards on-line for parents with children that are IS. Putting your daughter in touch with others like herself is probably one of the most important things you can do.

Feel free to e-mail me with questions anytime.

Take care,

Victoria

[Night Crow]

Dear Victoria,

Just an observation here but it seems like you and Aimee are expressing very different views. Aimee seems to be furious that she was subjected to a surgery that did not benefit her. It seems like she feels it would of been better of to had been left in her natural state of ambiguity. Someone that calls themself "Intersexed Princess" or "Good Freak 1" isn't expressing any shame in their birth defect. Infact, I would believe it's the opposite.

It seems like you don't like what you are born with. I quote one of your post," I spent my whole life looking and feeling like a freak." Do you think clitoral surgery is something that you would be interested in?

Everyone feels different about all of this and you can't assume just because one person feels one way that another person will feel the same way also.

Normal clitorises come in all shapes and sizes and " different is in the eye of the beholder.

If you voided out of your clitoris your parents would of had you in for clitoral surgery a long time ago.It would not of been left alone, it's an obvious thing. Doctors consider that a "medical emergency". Blah ....Blah ...Blah...

If you had test that were "elevated" with ( I'm assuming) hormone levels that were not in a proper range just remember that an Endo can do a test to determine if you have LOCAH. Your primary doctor can refer you to an ENDO, it's around a $20.00 co-pay. If you don't have insurance, you can you to an Endo directly, it costs under a $100.00 to see them. Blood tests can be paid off in installments ( read: you health is more important, where there is a will there is a way, how much does a class/books for school cost ? what is more important? I think your health! All this intersexed stuff is wonderful but if you have LOCAH condition or something else and it's not being treated, it may interfere with your health maybe not now but a little later. Not being able to fight off an illness (cah/locah) because you don't make enough cortisone can kill you.

[Victoria]

Night Crow,

You make some very good observations about my posts to Aimee.

It is true that I have some shame around my genitals. However, that does not mean that I wish I had been operated on. Maybe what you are picking up on is some guilt over not being operated on in addition to the pain of looking different from other girls. It is not an easy road whether or not one is operated on.

I realize how important it is to get tested for for any potentially life threatening conditions. My primary physician and I are taking care of that--thanks.

What brings you to Bodies Like Ours?

Victoria

[Night Crow]

Dear Victoria,

Aimee is my sister, I'm taking care of her horse while she is in Jamacia.

She had mentioned how happy she was to find these message boards about CAH and other related birth conditions. My sister has no shame about what she was born with. I've dealt with her wrath about frustrations that she just wished that no surgeon had ever touched her. Miss Drama Queen did her best work at the family dinner table, nothing like an audience for Aimee.

What people consider "Different" she would call normal and say that their definition of normal is "so unrealistic" ugh.... my sister's favorite word for everything.


Thomson Morgan