View Full Version : Types of IS
I've been trying to understand all the various kinds of ways being intersexed can come about, and what effect various conditions have on our bodies. In short, I'm trying to understand and describe the intersex spectrum.
I found it frustrating to read most of the literature, since some conditions are discussed by many authors (CAH, AIS, etc.) but others may or may not get discussed. So, being the analytical retentive sort I am, I have tried to summarize what I've found in a big table to help me understand it. (see attached zipped MS Word file)
Naturally this is just focusing on the medical side, and doesn't even try to address the cultural or emotional aspects. And I also realize that the nice tidy medical definitions don't often relate well to what's happening in any one person's body, or begin to address other issues very much, like side effects.
I included how Fausto-Sterling's three intersexes (herm, ferm, merm) related to the more specific medical terms. I can see why the three terms have fallen out of favor - they don't seem to be very helpful!
So I'm fishing for comments. How accurate is what I've collected? How could it be improved?
Thanks!
Glenn
I tried to open your attachment, but there isnt anything there.
I've proposed to ISNA that we establish contact with a legal association which caters to gays & lesbians. They have a conference in October in Philadelphia which I could easily attend.
I proposed the attached presentation (as a starting point) to help educate them about the unique needs of intersexuals. I figured as long as they will naturally tend to look out for gay issues, they could infuse intersexual rights in the law too! There's an update to the summary table I posted a little while ago, too, as an attachment to the slide show.
I'm trying to balance the medical information with emphasis on the emotional and legal sides.
Please don't be shy to respond! I've only been aware of this world for a couple of months, so please tell me if I'm saying something incorrect or offensive. My main concern with the slide show is the use of somewhat judgemental terms, like "wrong" or "should." How could I improve these?
Glenn
I had the same problem when I tested it, so I posted the file at:
http://users.snip.net/~gbooker/is.zip
Glenn
Hi Glenn,
I can't open it either. Can you email it too me?
I would be interested in learning more about the legal conference too!
Betsy
Hey,
We posted at the same time I guess. I jsut got it off your site.
Glenn...this is great!!!!!!!!!!!!
Betsy:p
The association is the NLGLA (National Lesbian and Gay Law Association, http://www.nlgla.org/).
Glenn,
Why don't you submit a proposal to give your presentation? I can help you with it if you want, but your PPT is great and it is so empowering to get up in front of groups to talk about this issue.
Go Glenn, go!
Betsy
I'm already in touch with Kerry at ISNA, who is asking Cheryl Chase about my proposal. I also suggested they might want a more experienced IS speaker to come down to Philly for the conference; and I could provide support for them. We'll see.
Glenn
Haven't heard any feedback on the stuff I put together (see web address above). Am I that far off base?
Glenn
:confused:
:confused:
I thought it was great. Did you hear back from Cheryl at all?
Betsy
I need to pester ISNA again...
Well, ISNA is in the throes of reorganizing because of Cheryl Chase's departure at the end of this year, so they haven't been able to look at the stuff I wrote and comment either way.
Accordingly they can't endorse what I proposed, but they didn't want to stop it either. They encouraged me to submit my proposal, and offered to loan me a copy of "Hermaphrodites Speak!" if I want to show it.
So I've submitted my draft presentation to the organizers of Lavendar Law 2002, and they'll let me know if they can squeeze it into the schedule for the October conference.
Keep your fingers crossed!
Glenn, renegade IS activist
:D
Freewriterr
10-21-02, 06:24 PM
Glenn,
Just went through your presentation and your word doc. It was excellent and I can tell a lot of work went into this!
I want to hesitate to say anything about what you wrote because I do not want to take from any of what you did!
But you asked for some honest feed back, so I want to mention a few things that I noticed and it is in no way a put down what so ever!!
First off can I suggest that you do without words, such as "normal"? A lot of IS people do not view themselves as abnormal at all. I personally do not see IS as being something of a birth defect though without question it is treated as such. It is a part of why we have the fight on our hands to begin with on the whole issue of surgery at birth. "Surgical correction" is with the assumption something is defected to begin with.
Now here is something that I can catch some flack for I am sure, but to me and others, is Intersexuality really a set of medical "conditions" or is it just a variance of sex identity on the spectrum created by biological determination factors? That have by the existence of IS people been proven to be challengable? Intersexuality to me would be defined as - A person that has mixed characteristics of biological factors of both "sexes" with varying degrees.
( In a ISNA meeting approximately 2 yrs ago, which I attended, one of the largest conflicts discussed was the whole issue of IS being a "Condition" a "Disability". This was laughed at and rejected by the members there. It is viewed more so as a natural difference. So the word anomaly, conditions etc. is possibly something you might want to stay away from.
Another thing. There is a major difference between transgender and transsexual. I think you may have confused the two. While I know that there are places where the two words are used intermixed they are not speaking accurately. A Transgender person transitions their gender expression, their gender role. A trassexual corrects their Sex status. This is not the same and the division does at times get blurred however the differences are huge.
When a person refers to feminine and masculine characteristics, they are refering to gender expression, or gender identity. When one is refering to male and femaleness, and all points inbetween they are refering to their sex identity.
Now here is something I want to say that you have taught me!!
I did not understand why I kept seeing the word Hermaphrodite on internet searches as being cross dressers, and M2F transsexuals or Transgendered persons. Now I get it! LOL I now also understand why we reject this label for both reasons you have given. I never liked the word, but did not know why others did not! Did you know...just for sharing info purposes, that Bisexuality was the first term used for IS people? Now that word has been taken of course, but when you think about it, it really did make the most sense. I like IS too though:p
Instead of using the word intersexed conditions, maybe a better way of wording it would be Intersexed types...refering to the different ways it occurs. Or Intersexed variables of indentity?
The word Syndrome I would personally want to put in "quotes" because it is not seen as a syndrome to a lot of us. Remember that this would mean that we are not natural or normal.
One of the things that we have to realize is that in cross cultural comparrisons, we find that IS babies exist all over the world. In some places, as the same with Transsexual persons, they are seen as superior. Now I am not saying that this is the case, but what it does confirm, is that it is Natural. And as well the idea that it is a medical condition is determined only by the society inwhich you live, meaning that it is a socially created condition, not a medical condition.
It is very hard to watch word usage, but it is extremely important. Because on one hand we are giving credit to the science of biology, that made a mess to begin with.
Another really cool thing I see that you did, and I do it too with my research work, the 1000-2000 births stats. It was told to me by a doc out of Standford ( pediatric urologist) that the numbers are actually a lot more than we even realize because of all he has seen covered up sense starting his internship in the mid 1950's.
Your work is truly great!! I do not in anyway want you to feel that I am not impressed, because I truly am! It is out of respect for what you have done here that I wanted to give you some feedback, because that is what you deserve, feedback and a heck of a good pat on the back!!
By the way we are neighbors! I am just outside of Phili.
Peace,
Freewriterr
I appreciate the feedback, Freewriterr, thank you.
As I wrote the documents, I was struggling with most of the terminology issues you brought up. Since I was drawing largely from medical sources, some of their perspective unfortunately remained. In fact I meant to go back and clean it up, but haven't gotten around to it yet. (Any volunteers!?)
Yes, "normal" is certainly a basis for judgement, and that's why "unusual" or "atypical" are generally preferred adjectives. I must have missed some of its occurrences.
I hadn't thought of "condition" as being negative, but I can see how it could be. For example, pregnancy is regarded as a medical condition, even though one hopes it is still a natural state for those experiencing it. Yet "having a condition" probably sounds too much like being sick.
Thanks for clarifying transgender vs transsexual. Most of the people I've known who were TG at one time had already started the physical changes to make them TS, so I may have misstated.
Glenn
Freewriterr
10-21-02, 10:23 PM
Glenn,
If you would like to have the work edited, I would not mind assisting you there. Let me know.
Peace,
Freewriterr
Natasha
10-22-02, 12:47 AM
It sounds very interesting, but I have a Mac and cannot view the document. Can you help me out here?
Sure Freewriterr, if you want to try cleaning it up, it would be most welcome.
Natasha, you should be able to open a Zipped file with Stuffit Expander (http://www.stuffit.com/expander/index.html). Any fairly recent version of MS Office should be able to open or import the Word and PowerPoint files after that. If not, let me know offline and I'll send them in a format you can read.
Glenn
Freewriterr
10-22-02, 04:01 PM
Glenn,
I have saved the power point presentation and word doc to my desktop, and will work on it over the next week. Take care and talk to you soon.
Peace,
Free
Natasha
10-22-02, 06:44 PM
I don't have Word, Office, or Powerpoint. I have AppleWorks and SimpleText is all.
I can open the zip, but my apps cannot read it.
dang <sigh>
Microsoft has viewer applications for free - they let you read and print a document without having, in this case, Word or PowerPoint.
I'm looking at the viewer programs from Microsoft (http://www.microsoft.com/mac/download/default.asp?area=O98), but I'm not sure if they will work in this case. Maybe I'll need to post a generic version of the files.
Glenn
Natasha
10-24-02, 08:06 PM
I love apple's stability and user friendliness, but their lack of software is still a bit problematic occasionally. Not as bad as it once was though. Cross platform stuff is a bummer sometimes still though.
Thanks for your consideration Glenn. I really want to read what you have put together. I am sure it well worth the effort.
It is nice to hear from you again, as always. = )
The generic version of the files is in:
http://users.snip.net/~gbooker/is-mac.zip
The Word file is now in RTF format, so Appleworks should be able to read it.
The Powerpoint presentation is a set of HTML files. Anything later than Internet Explorer 4.0 should be able to read it correctly. Make sure all the files except 'intersex-types.rtf' and 'is-show.htm' go into a folder called 'is-show_files'. (Stuffit should do that automatically.)
Glenn
Natasha
10-25-02, 05:55 AM
Thank you Glenn. I just finished reading it over. Kept me up late ya bugger. =)
It is really good. Very simple, very informative. User friendly, and well, fabulous all around. I am so impressed, and I damn proud of you.
Thank you for making such a wonderful contribution Glenn, and for allowing me to view it.
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