The Third Gender Misconception

[Betsy]

The post from sentinel was a great reminder to finally get the traditional values garbage posted here. Granted it's a bit old already but since no one posted it here, figured I would. I have lots to say about it, but haven't sat down to write anything:

http://www.traditionalvalues.org/mod...ticle&sid=1502

Betsy

[Peter]

Hi Betsy,

I took a look at your TVC link, and saw the attack on what they call intersex activism. They believe that intersex activists are promoting a many sex theory. Emi Koyama has a good article on the mistaken assumptions of the TVC at the Intersex Initiative website, www.ipdx.org. The main bright spot is that the TVC article, "Intersex Activists Push Multiple Gender Theory" is rated extremely poor by the site readership. With 14 votes, it is getting only a 1.28 rating on a scale of 1 to 5. It is my hope that many TVC members who read the article, also have read the recent TIME magazine intersex article, which the TVC mentions, and have a more open mind than the leadership of the TVC.

The TVC attack on intersex might open up something of a gender gap in the TVC, with TVC men taking a hard line, and TVC women against attacking intersex on the grounds that they may see it as a "medical" issue. I would be interested in knowing the gender breakdown of the TVC response to the intersex issue.

Peter

[Dana Gold]

I'm curious to know whether the votes are in disfavor with the article presentation and content itself ; or in disfavor of the people (IS) being talked about. Most polls are quite misleading and confusing to me when they ask to rate an article.
If content and presentation, then I myself would rate it simply: garbage,. It doesn't even rate a 1.

Dana

[Betsy]

I know Emi has it...they (TVC) posted it a few weeks ago and I kept watching for someone to react (either ISNA since it blasts them) or Emi since she does great writing on it. Finally, I called up David and asked if they were going to react or what and then he sent out an email about it.

I just never got around to it but wanted to put it here so it could be discussed if anyone was interested.

Betsy

[Girlyboy]

Wow. I keep on reading about all the weird people there are in America. What a strange bunch of people. Traditional Values Coalition? Bizzare. I'd rather be born a hermaphrodite than be born narrow minded

[Sentinel007]

This is precisely the problem that we are trying to deal with...

Western society, in general, is structured by a very mentally lazy approach to issues, in which people prefer to ignore a matter and pretend it does not exisit -- or act as though it has no right to exist. In order to justify themselves in that, they just mislabel everything and move on... mislabel and move one... mislabel and move on...

What on earth does intersex have to do with values?? (traditional or otherwise)??

It's the same problem all over again:

• Instead of recognizing that gender and sex are two different things, people just lazily use the terms interchangably.

• Instead of accepting that sexuality and reproduction are two different things, they just lazily lump it all together.

• Instead of dealing with the fact that social construct (like marriage and family), parenting, reproduction and sexuality are all completely different things, they just lazily toss it into one package, forcing themselves into a mindset that allows them to lazily attach ridiculous legislation to the package.

I can think of so many examples...

Now we have a bunch of morons mislabeling values as "traditional" as if tradition ever had anything to do with value!!! Then, under the banner of this mislabel they attack things that don't fit into what their concept of what the appropriate expression of the mislabel ought to be!!

Amazing...

Maybe we should come up with our own mislabel: The Tolerant Virtues Council... Ha Ha...

[Glenn]

to add to sentinel's list:

• assuming nudity and sexuality are the same thing.

unfortunately, most interpretations of "family" are staggeringly narrow, too.

Glenn

[Meresa]

Right on Glenn.

Nudity does not equal sexuality. Last time I checked, we are still the only species on earth that cover our bodies with some form of clothing (even where it is not necessary for protection from the elements). There is plenty of "artistic" nudity in Mermaid art, too.

And I know of plenty of non-traditional families who are no less healthy and well adjusted than their "traditional" counterparts. I have been invited to be part of several. Actually I am a part of them (only distance seperates).

[RGMCjim]

Right Wing "Christian" Fundamentalism is exploited by an "us vs. them" world view that creates threats and enemies, promises protection and solicits funds to enact those protections. It creates funds in the millions that suport everything to political power to corporate advancement. There are always new enemies so there is always need for more money. Communism was the enemy of choice before it fell. One of the chief new enemies (first defined by Anita Bryant in the 70's in Florida where the resultant anti-gay legislation is still some of the worst in the nation) is GLBT people. Now they have discovered intersex.

They are mobilized to trash the U.S. Constitution to prevent same-sex marriage because they have deified heterosexuality. We are their worst nightmare and they could easily become ours. The exsistance of intersexed people is totally unacceptable to their world view. The whole "third gender" thing we are reading in their preliminary gasps of discovery is not about whether intersexed people have identities as men or women. Their attack is, and will continue to develop into an asault on any Doctor or researcher who asserts that there is such a thing as intersex. You notice that at this point they only think there is one. They are claiming that we have been deluded by renegade medical professionals into thinking we exsist as a people. They are asserting that people with genital anomolies have birth defects that must be corrected, and that those birth defects in no way constitute any actual sex difference. In their world view male or female are two totally and completely seperate entities. They are not interested in what actually is. They won't acknowlege sexual differentiation in the fetus, they know nothing of hermaphrodism in nature. They know nothing about how common intersex is, or what it is and they are not about to find out because it would threaten their religious belief that God made everyone male OR female - AND is not part of their paradigm. They have latched on to the idea that intersex is something made up to try to confound their fantasy that everyone is male/masculine/heterosexual or female/femminine/heterosexual.

Do not underestimate the power of these groups. They are not lunatic fringe and they are unified, monied and powerful. They are only as far away as a click to TNT on cable TV. You already know their names - James Dobson, Pat Robertson, Falwell, Parsley.......Go to soulforce.org to get a better idea of what all this can mean to our future. Go to GLAAD.org, HRC.org, Lamdalegal.org or any of the Gender sites or organizations.

I've been told by lawyers at Empire State Pride Agenda that the current legal and political climate bodes very badly for the intersexed. Want to get married? Want to stay married if you already are? Watch your back if you're GLBT and/or I.

Jim C.