View Full Version : Fear Of Gym Class
Today, I did a basic intersex presentation at Argosy University SF Bay Area campus as part of a sex education panel. Before the start of the panel, I was approached by a student who asked me about my possible fear of gym class when I was growing up. I replied that although my penis was very small, and I had vaginal scars from infant genital surgery, that I survived gym class.
The student's question got me thinking. One of the major justifications for early infant genital surgery is that intersex children will not be able to emotionally survive gym class if other children see our bodies. In the United States, school gym classes generally start in junior high school, when a student is around the age of twelve years old. I did not grow up in a family that was very open about my intersex condition, and was deeply dedicated to what ISNA calls the traditional "concealment" model of intersex treatment. On several occasions, when I was growing up, I asked my father why my penis was so small, and he would cryptically say that it was because of my "condition", but he would never elaborate on his remarks.
Anyway, I am curious to learn about the experiences of other intersex people in gym class, and what issues that it brought up for you.
Peter
The only people ridiculing me at school were some gym-teachers because of my clumsiness and the way that I walked.
When I was in my mid -teens, I had small breasts, I looked like a child between my legs and my body had a unusual shape. None of my classmates ever made fun of me. Well, I wasn't invited to parties and the like and they didn't always want me to hang out with them. But it sure wasn't hell, like I've read in some of the personal stories.
Making fun of people who looked different or were disabled was completely unacceptable when I grew up. It has something to do with upbringing and education.
While I attended hebrew-classes in Israel, there were a few very rude students from the U.S. They made fun of me and other people, including a severely disabled teacher.
Sofie
I got made fun of a lot in Gym class. I got picked on. But I wasn't one to take crap from others, and when one joker tripped me, it started a fight.
I walked funny, sat funny, and in general... Was too uncomfortable with myself to even talk to others unless they talked to me first.
I never fit in, but most of that was more psychological and social for me, not because of something purely physical, although there were physical parts to it.
I've been away for the past month or so, but i'm back and i'll be posting regulary from now on, because i've settled in to my new job, more or less.
Never really thought about one aspect of my childhood years that probably gave me more unwanted attention, than the few times in the locker room that were awkward. i had big coke bottle glasses, like teddy's in "stand by me", if you've ever seen that. and i was smart, so it was easy to pick on me for that. but i realized that around fourth grade, i'd have to do something so that i wasnt just the normal smart kid with glasses, as if they MADE you smart or something.
so i became a smart-ass, and i was the class clown of sorts, not the jock class clown, but the clever smart-alecky kid who got teachers off topic. so, while there were a couple times in the locker room, we had physical education twice a week, from 1-8 grade, all at the same catholic grade school i attended. i would always wear the same underwear before and after, so i never had to change fully, and we never had a pool. so i was lucky. i beleive in karma, so if someone was mistreated when they were a child, it will come back twofold upon them sometime, you'll see.
melonaide
04-04-05, 09:55 PM
Well as everyone knows I'm not IS...blah blah blah......but I hated PE. In sixth grade I was probably, like, sixty something pounds maybe. I have no problems with my skinniness but when I was in school it was different. I hadn't started having sex yet and although I started early I'd have to say it helped my physical shyness but probably screwed my head up worse. I was a late bloomer...as a matter of fact sometimes I still think I'm going through puberty. My point is that I was not just skinny....I was painfully shy and reclusive and people mistook my skinniness for being deathly ill. What can I say?...I have a deathly glow.....but yes....I was mortified by PE and never participated....but there became a point in school where I didn't participate in anything.....any class. I never finished a full year of high school before dropping out and I don't consider myself an idiot but I just hated school....Period.
I got my GED at tech school and loved it.....Not as much mental energy bouncing of the walls, but regular school I hated with a passion and I hated PE and I hated undressing in front of the stupid girls who for some unknown reason thought their flesh was superior to my frailness and something to laugh at and I didn't get much bigger.....I just got meaner and I'm still prettier than most of them. :lol:
Ilulissat
04-07-05, 11:44 PM
I think that everyone hates gym class. Like you said, you start having to actually change clothes starting in 7th grade or so, and that is when everyone is going through puberty and uncomfortable with themselves. I have always been obese, and that was why I was uncomfortable and made fun of. For others it was big boobs, small boobs, too skinny, too fat, you name it. Everyone was made fun of for something, and if you weren't made fun of it was because you were the one picking on everyone.
At my HS, we made fun of the girl who fell into a locker and got locked into it, until we realized she had been stuck in it for 2 hours. :( Then we all felt bad. At least I had.
As Ilulissat said "For others it was big boobs, small boobs, too skinny, too fat, you name it." That was pretty much my experience. Everybody goes through difficult times at puberty. One of the social assumptions underlying cosmetic "normalizing" surgery on intersex children is that without cosmetic surgery, life in gym class will be hell. (I am not talking here about intersex surgeries that are medically necessary.) We do not routinely perform involuntary cosmetic surgery on other children who might be teased for being too skinny etc. If everyone who had a body that varied from the so-called norm was required to have surgery, our hospitals would be tremendously overcrowded. Some intersex people have survived physical assault by others wanting to know the "truth" about them. In such cases, criminal prosecution is in order. It's not the intersex child who needs to be changed; it is the society in which we live.
Peter
RGMCjim
04-11-05, 08:50 PM
Peter,
I survived gym class just fine. I have no testicles and my phalloclit was visible when I was young and skinny - but very small. My parents were afraid I'd be teased so they had a talk with my gym teachers who always kept an eye on me and gave me locker assignments in corners so I would have some degree of privacy. My dad walked me through the locker room after school each time I started a new school and pointed out ways to avoid direct frontal nudity and avoid the kinds of idiots who picked on lots of boys - the fat, the skinny, the short, the tall, the geeky, the sissies, the unco-ordinated etc. No one ever suggested that anyone cut things off of them so they would avoid teasing. Due to a father who loved me and gym teachers who saw to it that I was ok and included the locker room was not a trauma. Team sports were a trauma because I was short and skinny. Being short and skinny was a far bigger source of ridicule than my genitals - which few ever saw.
Same thing goes for sitting to pee. No one ever, in my 47 years of life ever has questioned why a always go into a stall. Not ever. By the way, the handicapped, pee-shy and obese can't stand to pee either. No one ever suggests cutting up their genitals and telling them they are girls.
Jim C.
I just split the thread to stay on topic and somehow Jim got in there and posted an on topic post that needs to go back. I'll try to undo it and then do it. I should have closed the thread while I did it. :brick:
Okay, all done. The circ topic got put into a new thread. Find it here if you are looking for it http://bodieslikeours.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1246
Jim's post now makes sense and both threads are on topic. Thanks for the push, Meadow. I had been thinking the same thing but never did it for some reason or another, which one--I forget.
Betsy
Alicia Loopyloo
04-11-05, 10:30 PM
man gym class sucked for me. ive always been the outcast. i havent been posting cause well..i lost my password! :happy45: Im happy i finally remembered it. ive been tryin to get it emailed but that dont work either :thinking2 i do however read you all :D you all have alot of courage to be going what you go through! Im happy to be here! hugs to you all!
hope the day is going well.
Godbless,alicia
As I mentioned in another thread, I had a tough time in seventh grade, and after visits to the local children's hospital, was transferred to another school the following year. This is not an argument in favor of infant genital surgery. It is just a statement of fact. There is a lot more to being intersex than just our genitals. My gym teachers were very jock like in their approach to life. They could not have cared less about my situation, and did not do anything to help me. If anything, they were trapped by a warped sense of "fascination" that I often provoked in those years. I remember that a couple of years after my parents pulled me out of that school, my mother said that a gym teacher told my little bother, who was now in his gym class, that I was a really interesting kid and that I had a lot of spunk. In one of my mother's rare moments of being forthright, she said that the gym teacher's remarks were total bullshit, and that the instructors did not care a damm about me. (Or words to that effect.) I really appreciated that she said that.
Peter
Peter--I applaud how your parents handled the situation, especially your father. It seems that they cared enough for your well being that they went the extra ten steps to make sure you were as well protected as possible. I like how you were able to get the well deserved lockers in the best place possible, and how your father pointed out the exits and easy way outs, watching your back, so to say.
I have one thing to say about peeing however--it has always been difficult in my life to find stalls in crowded places, and the inability to find one in a stadium or concert venue takes a long time. I often have noticed that yes, some men will use the stalls for standing up, but that the other always stare at us as it it was strange. But that's not the problem, so much as it is finding a stall at all. I went to the U2 concert and to a Dodger game last weekend, and i almost peed in my pants before finding one. if anyone has any suggestions, other that to stop drinking fluids, i'm all ears. Take care Peter, and the rest of y'all.
I often have noticed that yes, some men will use the stalls for standing up, but that the other always stare at us as it it was strange. You mean, they actually care if you're peeing or havin' a sh*t?? Aren't they a little strange?
When I'm in town I always use toilets at cafés or shops because they are clean. And I can get another cup of my favorite caffeinated beverage.
I have one thing to say about peeing however--it has always been difficult in my life to find stalls in crowded places, and the inability to find one in a stadium or concert venue takes a long time.
I use PMates: http://www.pmate.co.uk/ groeten, Miriam
Dana Gold
04-12-05, 12:59 PM
Well, I for one, eventually "returned" to the stall, regardless of what may have been said or thought, because I got sick and tired of peeing on myself and pants to prove or show that I could do it "normally".....besides, I felt it was the ultimate right thing for me to do...it's s/w nasty and unhygienic to urinate in a receptacle that has a rather significant "back-splash/puddle factor to it".... :sick:
You mean, they actually care if you're peeing or havin' a sh*t?? Aren't they a little strange?
Yes, it would seem so....maybe out of some subconscious fear of "queerness".
One thing I did learn was that there seemed to be some kind of silent politics and male etiquette about using the urinals. In an attempt to research this concept, I came across this item....a game, which represents the proper urinal , how shall we say, social correctness...funny, but a reflective truth in it:
http://www.crazyhill.com/hung/other_game/urinal.swf
:rolleye13 :tongue:
Dana, thank you for the quite educational game. But do they also have a special version for women? After all we have other social rules...
http://www.p-mate.com/ned/images/p_wc1.gif
(The unique and original P-Mate which enables woman to pee while standing upright.)
http://www.google.com/search?q=shee%2Dpee
http://www.undercover.com.au/news/2005/jan05/20050119_sheepee.html
http://www.femalefreedom.ca/product.htm
Groeten, Miriam
Hi Jay,
Ummm.... I think that you are confusing Jim Costich and me. I agree that Jim has a great father, and that the gym instructors made special arrangements in his case to get special lockers and the like. The treatment I got was other boys pointing at my penis, and remarking on how small it was. Thank Goodness that my vaginal scars are not immediately visible from a frontal view of my body. I was always afraid that other boys might get a glimpse of them. I believe that the old military style of conducting gym class where a hundred children march through the showers at a time should be abandoned, and that schools should take a more relaxed approach to physical education. I am glad to hear that, these days, many schools do not require showers for regular gym classes, but only for extra-curricular physical education classes.
Peter
Hmmm...searching "female bathroom etiquette" returns about 70,300 results.
Doing the search on the male version of the same search brings up 99,900 results.
Source: Google.
Typical inequities... :mouth_clo
We should google bomb the terms to skew our own results showing normal men sitting and normal woman standing.
Dana Gold
04-12-05, 02:54 PM
But do they also have a special version for women?
here's some short remarks: from a women's website and another from a comparison of both by an apparent man.
http://www.popgurls.com/article_show.php3?id=122
http://www.themediadesk.com/files/restrooms.htm
men's vs women's restroom (game) survey:
http://www.elliston.net/drew/restroomsurvey/
My own experience has been that the women's restroom is more animated (especially with children present) than the men's (unless they are drunk)....less reserved; one time I had a good chat with a woman in a toilet stall next to me, at a safety seminar I accidently splashed orange juice all over me and a woman helped me to wipe it off when she took me to the ladies room.....To me, then, I have seen that men are generally not that helpful, sharing.....and especially not friendly (touching!? :whatchuta ) with each other to the extent that women are....although it certainly isn't universally so. Men's restroom was for me a trying and uncomfortable (physically and psychologically) experience, and women's....well: a little room (sometime quaintly decorated) to relieve and freshen up oneself .....and check that my face and hair is "in good order.....without having to tread in pee-puddles. I am going to assume that those women who use the little devices to stand-pee will be more thoughful than the men, who unthinkingly like to "leave their mark". :interesti
However, cleanliness is variable in women's restrooms (public..especially some gasoline service stations)....a local KMart is terrible and sometimes one would hesitate and maybe even being prompted/encouraged to resort to using the stand-pee device or do what's referred to as "hover-pee"...squatting and not actually touching the toilet. And I always check that.....sometimes to wash the toilet seat clean and/or double-drape with paper covers .....anyway......still better than the men's, where seat checking for wetness or unflushed was mandatory.
I couldn't open up the men/women's survey icons...I hope others can do so.
Dana :pizza:
Sunshine1
04-12-05, 05:13 PM
I never had a fear of Gym Class but really considered it a waste of time considering after school, I rode horses. None of the girls ever bothered me and I was to pissed off to care. There was this one little blond chick who mentioned Gee Aimee, you have a lot of hair done there CAH puberty comes early. Instead of being embarassed I said sharply and WHY ARE YOU LOOKING? The other girls laughed at her. Gym Class was weird anyway because the gym teachers was about three hundred pounds. I never had any trouble with the showers because after all the genitals exams i was going through at the time with grown men at The U of Mich taking a shower with a bunch of girls was a snap. What is sad though, is that i'd rather of kept my different genitals and went to study hall. Surgically altered for gym class among other things. It's no wonder I would drink shnapps at the bus stop . Loved field Hockey because I could chase the other girls with sticks and sorta push them. My high school was into female weight lifting and the coach was always trying to get me interested but by hten I was already skipping school and my mind was trying to protect myself from the exams at THE U of Mich.
Dana Gold
04-12-05, 08:44 PM
I hated and feared gym class.....and I don't think "they" liked me much either.....except as a "joke" or "punching bag"....until one glorious day when I found out I no longer had to attend :ARMS1:
Dana :sarcastic
MelissP
04-17-05, 07:45 PM
Today, I did a basic intersex presentation at Argosy University SF Bay Area campus as part of a sex education panel. Before the start of the panel, I was approached by a student who asked me about my possible fear of gym class when I was growing up.
...
Anyway, I am curious to learn about the experiences of other intersex people in gym class, and what issues that it brought up for you.
Peter
Hi Peter,
Here I am replying to a thread I missed answering :-) (but isn't that the best kind).
My gym class experience goes a little like this; I was already lonely and unpopular, I think due mostly to not being as expected personality-wise. By the time I started 7'th grade, I was a 183cm tall skeletal figure, and the only thing anyone needed to taunt me was an excuse. They got that excuse when I started gym class, and an unfriendly world saw me naked. And I for the first time saw a tangible difference between me and {them}. I'd had a very sheltered childhood.
My father was never as helpful as Jim's. He was the sort of guy who would punish me for being beaten up (w/ a 2'nd helping).
The cruelty of children; I got several nicknames. The most often used was "Neither".
Things didn't get better. I got taller, and weaker. Failed gym class several times because every time I exerted myself I had symptoms matching the beginnings of an adrenal crisis. Taunted more. I remember once when we were supposed to do a couple of laps around the playing field, and I got about 1/2 way before the pains and dizziness set in. As I was holding onto my abdominal region, they came up with the comment "what's a matter, are you pregnant? ha ha ha ha ha ..."
Never did develop physically really. Oh well. Screw them. Probably my parent's fault, as far as I can decide.
Mel
Sunshine1
04-17-05, 09:55 PM
People with CAH are shorter than most (bone fusion earlier) but even with that I was a great server in vollyball because of the muscular composition from the CAH, I was able to smack the hell out of that volleyball and the other team would scater on the other side. I hated softball but had a hell of a swing but field hockey was one of my favorites because I could swack the other girls in the ankles lol just a little excessive androgens lol.
MelissP
04-18-05, 01:35 AM
People with CAH are shorter than most (bone fusion earlier) but even with that I was a great server in vollyball because of the muscular composition from the CAH, I was able to smack the hell out of that volleyball and the other team would scater on the other side. I hated softball but had a hell of a swing but field hockey was one of my favorites because I could swack the other girls in the ankles lol just a little excessive androgens lol.
Quite true.
All I can claim is unusual symptoms and test results. Any diagnosis that could connect the dots, has turned out to rather elusive. At the moment, I can only factually state adrenal insufficiency in conjunction with other wierdness. It might be tempting to attempt an underlying theory, but at this time not yet possible.
I can't say for certain my karyotype. Two tests (1 self-paid, 1 insured) came back with different answers.
I can state a very odd internal anatomy; and a history of hypogonadism,
with related side-effects. And a former case of anosmia.
And living at a campus in Baltimore, as a very young child. And very odd events. And guilt in the eyes of family when I asked them the big question.
And childhood medical records that the docs refuse to let me see.
That's what I know. Any speculation as to diagnosis is only towards a working theory.
Thanks,
Mel
So many of you are so brave to me! I remember the first day back in high school when I first found out that ALL of us would be showering together. Thankfully this was before actual classes, and my father immediately spoke to the headmaster and arranged an exemption for me.
It was bad enough outside the showers - I don't see how I could have made it thru if they'd known :shock:
Hello, I think this may be my second post here. As my profile says im not IS but gym class was still horrid for me. Grade school was the worst for me since i have SID. I would get made fun of by the gym teacher and the students since I talked funny and couldn't walk or run right. There were many days when I would come home and just cry. People can be so mean.
What's "SID" ?
<serious_mode = off>
Semel in Die (Latin: Once A Day)
Saab Information Display
Sadistic, Intelligent, Dangerous
Sal, Cape Verde - Amilcar Cabral International (Airport Code)
Satellite Identifier
Satisfactory Implementation of Design
Scheduled Implementation Date
SecurID
Security Identifier
Security in Depth
Seismic Intrusion Detector/Device
Sensory Integration Disorder
Sensory Integration Dysfunction
Sequence Information Data
Sequence Interaction Diagram
Service Identifier
Service Industries Division
Service Information Dataset
Session Identifier
Shared Information & Data (model)
Ship Installation Drawing
Side Impact Dummy (auto crash testing)
Sidetic (linguistics)
Silent Indicator Description
Singular Indestructible Droid (song)
Situation Display
Skin Irritant Decontaminant
Slew Induced Distortion
Society for Information Display
Society for International Development
Society for Investigative Dermatology
Sodium Ionization Detector
Software Independent Data
Solomon Island Dollar (national currency)
Sound Interface Device
Source ID
Source Image Distances
Special Improvement District
Special Investigation Division
Specialarbejderforbundet I Danmark (Denmark)
...
Sensory Integration Disorder/Dysfunction?
<serious_mode = on>
Groeten, Miriam
With upfront apologies to the poster who said he has "SID", and I don't know what it stands for besides Sudden Infant Death but I think that is unlikely as he is a current poster and possesses better typing skills than a dead infant.
It stands for "Situational Intersex Disorder". Sometimes you are, sometimes you not. It all depends on the situation. For instance, if you aren't really intersex but post here saying that you are and then go over to the trans boards and post as a trans person when that is really what you are, you are suffering from 'situational intersex disorder'. Likewise, if you are not trans and yet telling them you are and doing the same thing as an intersex wanna be, you are suffering from "Situational headcase idiopathic tendencies" or SHIT. :outtahere
Betsy
MelissP
04-26-05, 10:08 PM
With upfront apologies to the poster who said he has "SID", and I don't know what it stands for besides Sudden Infant Death but I think that is unlikely as he is a current poster and possesses better typing skills than a dead infant.
Betsy
Doing a search on altavista, I got a lot of hits for "sensory integration disorder". Symptoms would be similar to the poster's self-description. It's
real, and apparently a most unfortunate condition.
I used to like the northernlight search engine better, before they went off the air.
Melissa
Sensory Integration Disorder
Sensory Integration Dysfunction
Thats it. I forgot that SID stood for so many things! Oops! Yea it is a very common disorder that most often gets misdiagnosed and mistreated. I was lucky and got a good neurologist who didn't just say I had ADHD and pop me full of pills.
"Sudden Infant Death but I think that is unlikely as he is a current poster and possesses better typing skills than a dead infant." that made me giggle
Dana Gold
04-27-05, 03:33 PM
Likewise, if you are not trans and yet telling them you are and doing the same thing as an intersex wanna be,
That's called "screwing" with peoples' heads....a mind f**k. :aargh:
........SID (not you, JC!) = Screwed-up Identity Disorder :sarcastic...
PS: I really do like the quote from Bertrand Russell you have as "signature", Betsy, as in those "stupid ones" who like :sheep: ....:wink_smil
:rolleye11
PS: I really do like the quote from Bertrand Russell you have as "signature", Betsy,...
Well, Dana, you know... :thinking2 I'm not sure about that... :thinking2 I really have to think this over because I doubt we can be so sure about that... :thinking2 :wink_smil
Groeten, Miriam
Dana Gold
04-27-05, 04:35 PM
:confused: :pat: :dunno: :doh:
:idea2: Finally!!
That's called "screwing" with peoples' heads....a mind f**k.
........SID (not you, JC!) = Screwed-up Identity Disorder ...
You didn't like my acronym? I'm just glad JC saw the sense of humor in it.
LOL @<hidden> Dana...I think. :tongue:
Dana Gold
04-27-05, 05:23 PM
You didn't like my acronym?
Ah, sh*t :sarcastic , Betsy, this ole gal is tryin' to keep from cussin' too much, especially since I found (again!) one of them fellers (we was talkin' 'bout some time ago thet likes :sheep:) in my barn messin' with "you-know-what"....a sh*t-head....ain't thet some sh*t?!..h*ll, it ain't even election year yet!.....I jest wish them sh*t-heads would stay away.....thet goes same for any SH*T-fellers, too.
D*mn!, what's a person to do with all this crazy sh*t goin' on?....grumble, grumble :sad_smile .... :sarcastic
nimo6211
04-28-05, 12:53 AM
Hello everyone:
I see that we have been quite busy. Hello Dana. Has and is still very hectic past few months and just dropped by to say hi. Hugs and kisses. :grin:
Dana Gold
04-28-05, 04:57 PM
A big hug to you, too!.....take care :wave1:
:pizza:
I lucked out with gym class when it came to my different-ness... which is one of the few things I can actually wipe my brow about. First of all, gym class starts in sixth grade in my district, so I was still pretty young. Having already went through puberty and gotten my period by the time I was ten, my breasts were already much larger than most girls there, so at least I had that advantage and didn't get picked on. I was at least a C-cup at the time and so none of the skinny girls were about to make fun of my weight when had yet to even form bumps on their chests. I was also placed in the most secluded part of the locker room which was a life saver, although I was right in the middle of it. That very year I was expelled from school and the next, I went into a private school for mentally "disabled" kids, K-12, if you can believe it, and never had to change my clothes in room full of strangers again. Good thing, too, because the hair started really coming in and before I was even thirteen, I swear that my butt and stomach hair could have been seen from space if I'd ever let anyone see me.
The real problem came as I got older and was ready to have sex. On the plus side, I can always claim my hairy arms as a feminist protest, but really I lack so much self-confidence due to all the hair and the only reason I don't shave my arms is because it's so visible and I don't want them to look/feel like the rest of my body. The last time I was intimate with someone was two years ago when the beard started growing in. Since then, I haven't let myself get close to anyone because I don't want to have to wake up in the morning and explain the stubble. Not to mention that the only three people I ever trusted with my body made an appoint to demean me about it and it's even gotten way worse since then.
I forgot to mention that we didn't shower, either. The schools had already done away with that whole thing, so we never had to be fully naked in front of anyone at school.
MelissP
05-15-05, 07:03 PM
Hi Joee,
That seems too early for you to have deal with all that :-(
If it isn't welcome, there are ways to turn down the androgens.
- Meliss
If it isn't welcome, there are ways to turn down the androgens.
I'm not sure I follow. How would you do that?
MelissP
05-18-05, 10:04 PM
I'm not sure I follow. How would you do that?
Hopefully I can find out the details in my sister's case, but mostly there
are meds which her endo prescribed to keep down the androgen levels.
Which boosts her self image a lot. Which might help me as well, based
on what I know now, and the fact that apparently the spiro I've been
taking has given me a liver cyst (doesn't sound good)
- Meliss
vBulletin, Copyright ©2000-2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.