Cross-Dressing

[Peter]

This morning, as I was driving into work through Berkeley and Oakland, I did an informal visual survey of the number of people wearing dresses. Of the roughly 500 people that I saw walking by the side of the road, there was only ONE woman wearing a dress. Hundreds of women were wearing pants.

So what does this mean for the future of cross-dressing? The vast majority of women have abandoned the dress, and now wear pants. We are a long ways away from the days when Billy Jean King was berated for showing up at a tennis match, and not wearing a tennis dress.

When I play around with gender presentation, I prefer to wear a suit and wig... it's my own version of Judith Butler style drag. The ITL "Size Matters" program on American gender got me thinking about these issues. It is really worth trying to get a copy of the program if it is not broadcast locally in your community.

Peter

[Sofie]

there was only ONE woman wearing a dress. Hundreds of women were wearing pants. It's really hard to find a no-nonsense dress these days. Most of what's affordable has got that party-costume-look. Maybe that's why?
Sof

[Dana Gold]

Geez, Peter!

Check out the weather for that area (below link) and maybe it has nore to do with practical matters, than gender expectations:

http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/total_forecast/?dgtl=1&wfo=mtr&zone=caz007&county=CAC001&mapzone=caz007&map.x=69&map.y=122

I wouldn't wear a dress in mid fiftes degrees (with wind chill factor) climate.....freeze my fanny off!!.....or have the wind blow my dress about for all the looky-loos (men) to stare at, (or even with no wind, if you know what I mean :omg_smile ).... :umno:

:interesti

[Sarra]

I dunno. When I go full time, I'm planning on the tomboy look, personally. I do plan on some dresses, or skirts at least, because that is one part of femeninity that I do wish to experience.

[melonaide]

To me....(female) its like this......If I wear a dress I must dress to kill and do my toenails so I can wear toeless strappy heels.....time consuming......then there is the fact that I have to shave my legs......which is no big deal and I do every few days......certainly not everyday which I will only do for sex. :tounge_sm

In other words. I don't like wrapping a package that I'll wind up opening anyway.

Thats my excuse on that.


I put on a dress every now and again but when I come home I feel like I did it for nothing.

I used to wear long dresses and boots and thick tights where it was not so important to get my legs very smooth....maybe just with the electric shaver and that was good but I seem to only go to friends houses which I don't do anymore so why have to wash my long skirts and ruin them. No one sees them. Jeans are tougher.

[miriam]

This morning, as I was driving into work through Berkeley and Oakland, I did an informal visual survey of the number of people wearing dresses. Of the roughly 500 people that I saw walking by the side of the road, there was only ONE woman wearing a dress. Hundreds of women were wearing pants.
Hey Peter!

Today wearing skirts and dresses in every day life is a symptom of a Gender Identity Disorder and it certainly is not an expression of femininity. If you ever see a group of women of which more than 10 percent is wearing a dress and it isn’t a black tie event like a gala banquet, you probably ran into a meeting of transwomen. :regular_s

Peter, I somehow have the idea that your image of the ideal woman doesn’t match with reality... Or are you just thinking of the good old times? Well, in that case I have a really nice pic for you:

http://www.wwnorton.com/college/history/tindall/tinimage/bgwomen.gif

The Ideal Woman. A 1956 Life magazine cover story pronounced the ideal woman a "pretty and popular" suburban housewife who "attends club or charity meetings, drives the children to school, does the weekly grocery shopping, makes ceramics, and is planning to study French."

Groeten, Miriam

[miriam]

Speaking of those good old times... the pic came from a special issue of Life magazine devoted to "The American Woman" (1956). And also does this text: "Of the accomplishments of the American woman, the one she brings off with the most spectacular success is having babies".

Yikes!!!!!!!!!

Groeten, MIR

[Dana Gold]

Thanks for posting that historical 50's bit, Miriam. Truth is, that mostly men designed dresses those days (and some still do today) with the intent of creating an ideal "feminine look" for their purposes (desires), not for women's. High heels, corsets, and other "female" accessories were for the most part a male creation to "accentuate" the female figure.....give an ideal housewife or a "sexy look". The stilletto heel designer was a gay man! And pants were deemed exclusively for men, even the phrase "wear the pants in the family" had overtones of "gender" expectations. Women wearing pants makes sense and is practical......they're warmer, protect the legs/thighs better, especially in northern climates. And a woman can look good in a pants outfit....she doesn't have to go "raw skin", or show it off, to "feel like a woman". It's men that , for the most part, seem to require "accessory items", to feel "like a man"....maybe that's why they came up with the idea of dresses for women, because pants were an exclusive part of the male world.....selfish basta*ds....women in colder climates had to freeze their fannies off to adhere to "gender expectations"!....or squish their abdomens (corsets) to have a "female figure".

As for cross-dressing?.....I really must say this and it was a jaw-dropper in one session with my psychologist a few years back: Some men who "dress up"...especially over-extravagantly....with Carmen Miranda head ornaments, glaringly bright colors that clash and not coordinate, and over-sexed "look" (mini-skirt and high heels etc)....or even just dress, jewelry, full make-up etc.. are not expressing femininty....they're expressing a theatrical misconception....a version of their concept of women.....most women wouldn't "be caught dead" looking like that....and to me, it's a "slap-in-the-face" making a parody of what they think being female is.....it seems that femininity, then, is different than being a woman....i.e. femininity is another male creation....okay, I said it.........I'm awaiting the "slings and arrows" of the gender debaters.....but that's how I feel about it all.

:whipg:

[Peter]

Hi Miriam. I started this threat out of my own thinking about gender issues, and not out of any personally outdated conception of the "idea woman". These days, if I see a woman wearing a dress, outside of the limited social situations you mention, I think to myself "That's really strange, how outdated." The one woman who was wearing a dress was strikingly out of place in my world, which is over 80% non-white and mostly working class. I come from a dysfunctional family, that was not able to deal with my being intersex very well, so I do not look to the past with any fondness. In fact, I really dislike the outdated "Victorian" type romantic notion that treatment decisions concerning intersex children operate under some vague concept that the "caring family and doctor" are the proper venue for treatment decisions, and take priority over the human rights of the intersex child.
I have made no secret of the fact that I am attracted to women. But that said, I am far more likely to be reading books by Judith Butler and Avital Ronell than looking at mainstream magazine pictures. Also, rightly or wrongly, I see attraction as a gateway to companionship. I think that I have been pretty candid on how the traditional treatment of intersex children can have a profoundly negative impact on the intersex child's formation of a positive self-identity. Part of what got me thinking on the topic of gender, was the ITL program "Size Matters". Betsy is the most striking person in the program. It's what is between her ears, and what is coming out of her mouth that is totally amazing. I have been reading Butler recently, and have some reservations about the limit of drag and "parody" as an oppositional force to the dominant gender system. Although I have to love anyone who reads Hegel, as Butler does, I personally find the political program somewhat lacking. How does mixing and matching drag elements supercede old school drag? Does the use of intersex in queer theory help the intersex movement? These are some of the topics I like to think about as an intersex person. I admit that I have limitations, and am struggling to see the gay male world in a more positive light. But in no way do I want a return to the past.

p.s. Dana, I will be in touch.

Peter

[Meresa]

It's really hard to find a no-nonsense dress these days. Most of what's affordable has got that party-costume-look. Maybe that's why?
Sof

Hi Sofie, :wavey:

Do you have resale shops where you live? That's where I get a lot of my "no-nonsense" clothing. It's affordable, but you may have to do some digging to find the good stuff. :teach:

I have to admit most of my "dresses" are skirts and tops. I wear them maiinly for going out dancing, or for special occasions. I only have a handful of complete dresses and haven't bought one in many years. (the most recent were black floor length 'A'-lines that I would wear when hanging out with the Goths in Harvard Square) :cool:

The only time I will wear a skirt for casual going about is when the weather is just right: 65-75 def F (18-24 deg C) and no humidity (otherwise I need bike shorts underneath to keep my thighs from chafing together-ouch!)

[Sofie]

Hi Meresa :happy45:
Most of my "wardrobe" comes from the salvation army. At work I used to wear spencer-dresses with lots of pockets, but they don't look much like a dress. In the summertime humidity near the water is >90% and it's very uncomfortable to wear anything else than skirts or shorts.

[Betsy]

Hey Meresa...nice to see you again! How's the school stuff coming along?

Betsy
:wavey:

[Sarra]

Local town is like hippy haven... You can find almost anything, old style dresses, skirts, LOTS of cute stuff, if you just take the time to browse. ^_^ Plus, there's enough bead shops to keep one busy for years. :p