View Full Version : who put this report together?
The history of the report and the process is included in the actual document. There were dozens of people who contributed to it simply by submitting their testimony. The LGBTAC was instrumental in starting the process. David Iris Cameron, board member with ISNA was one of the pioneers who first pushed for it. Dozens more collaborated throughout last year and in the early part of this year to produce a document that we feel stands on it's own merit. Certainly, there will be some people unhappy with what it contains and others who feel the report goes too far or not far enough.
At Bodies Like Ours, we are very happy with it and look at it as a road map for the months and years ahead. Please be sure to read the position statement we released concerning it, which is available in the resource area we put together.
However, I want to acknowledge the hard work of Peter Trinkl. Peter attended every single meeting held by the Commissioners over the past year as well as each meeting of the SF HRC Lesbian, Gay, Transgender Advisory Committee (LGBTAC)
He was a key person in what the report contains (and doesn't contain to a certain extent).
He deserves many kudos for his veracity and dedication to this document.
Thank you, Peter Trinkl. You are my hero.
Each of the people involved in the creation and publication of the report deserve kudos today. This is especially true for Marcus Arana, the principal author of the report and a member of the HRC staff. Thank you Marcus.
Betsy
Hi Betsy, Peter and anyone who has contributed to this,
This really means a lot to me.
Sofie
Thanks Sofie. Peter was really key in the process (with me whispering plenty in his ear).
We knew it was coming today and did since last Thursday 4/28 and it was hard to keep quiet about it. Monday, as I prepared the site for it I dropped the little hint by creating this forum.
Today when we received the email with it, I was alternating between jumping up and down and crying with joy over it. It's a huge turning point and it will be interesting over the next several days how people out in the "real world" react to it.
We are of course, hoping for good media coverage and I think we will. I'm aware of two stories in the pipeline that we have participated in and both are in major markets here in the US.
Betsy
Congratulations :)
The complete lack of any evidence of people happy or content with their childhood surgery is extremely disturbing. I hope that you manage to successfully pursue Dr Baskin over his claims on this, and the emotional state of contributors.
What status does this report have on a state or federal level? I guess that (like everyone else here) I'm hoping that it'll have a wide impact on future cases of proposed childhood surgery - if only because of the absence of positive testimony that it's revealed.
Unlike Baskin, I'd doubt that medical advances have reduced nerve damage (a recent surgery that I've been through tells me this). I'd guess that recent advances have been more focused on the best wording for pre-surgical caveats and disclaimers.
Where the US goes in terms of care issues, it's likely that the rest of the West will follow - I have no idea of the incidence of genital surgery here in Europe, but I hope that the medical profession here will take note.
all the best
Morgan
Thanks Betsy for the kind words. It means a lot to me that you believe that I have done good work. You are a great person to discuss intersex issues with.
I would like to thank the other intersex members of the San Francisco Human Rights Commission Intersex Task Force for their hard work and dedication in creating the report. I would like to thank Thea Hillman, Blue, David Cameron, Eli seMbessakwini, and Cheryl Chase for their work on the task force. Betsy Driver and Emi Koyama were also in close touch with the work of the task force. I appreciate the time and energy spent by members of the SF HRC LGBTAC in attending task force meetings and moving the report forward. Social researcher Dr. Katrina Karkazis regularly attended our meetings as an observer. Each task force member brought their own unique perspective to the table. I will always remember the intersex task force as something very special in my life.
Peter
What status does this report have on a state or federal level?
At this immediate point in time, none. In fact, none of the recommendations put forth are even legally binding. Medical treatment is governed on the state level, by the state licensing departments. Much of that comes from the guidance of the people like the AMA, which is more or less (along with all the other medical associations) run by dinosaurs.
However, with this report it is expected some facilities will voluntary begin to change. For instance, UCSF has already established an intersex task force (not led by Baskin btw) to examine their treatment practices.
As time goes on, many people will be working with this document, and change will occur with it.
For instance, one of the things I wanted to see included and pushed for during the process was considering statutes of limitations for malpractice suits in regards to surgery done during childhood. As you can see, it's not included. My thoughts along the line was what childhood sex abuse survivors, particularly those abused in the Catholic church have managed to do...they got them dropped.
I can see us using this document to have a better chance of approaching legislators to attempt it.
That's just one idea.
The beautiful thing about these 110 pages is there are lots we can do with it.
It is our intention to explore our options in pursuing Baskin over his particular comments. At minimum, each of us should make a complaint to the California medical licensing board about it. Complaints against medical licenses when proven are a pain in the neck because they need to be reported every two years and it becomes a mark of shame for physicians who have them.
Hi Betsy
It is our intention to explore our options in pursuing Baskin over his particular comments. At minimum, each of us should make a complaint to the California medical licensing board about it...
Who do you mean by "we" - just contributors to the report, just California residents, or the rest of us, too?
Just wondering if there's anything that the rest of us can do...
Morgan
Hi Betsy
Who do you mean by "we" - just contributors to the report, just California residents, or the rest of us, too?
Just wondering if there's anything that the rest of us can do...
Morgan
Gosh, I don't know the answer to that question. However, thank you for being as peeved about it as we (at this point meaning Peter and I as we have been privately considering it). It's been suggested to me that we explore a class action suit on it, but I have yet to contact the others who are included in his statement. Peter may be in a better position to do that as he was much more intimately involved with the entire process than I was.
In the bigger reality, I look at that letter he wrote as a gift to the intersex movement as whole---on many levels.
If you think about what he deduced, it was that surgery causes psychological harm. That statement goes beyond the legal and ethical issues of him doing a psych diagnosis and then releasing it in a public document (which in the US is a violation of federal law even though he didn't put our names to it because it is easily concluded who he was excepting from it). As an aside, mom was probably rolling over in her grave over that because he blamed our parents for what he deduced--from reading a summary according to his words. It's possible he watched the video but that is not what he said/wrote. Even if he watched the video, I don't think he can make that kind of mass diagnosis without an examination. I do know he left prior to the testimony.
He testified first because he said he had other committments and had to leave and he did leave immediately after his testimony.
So, what can you do with it?
For the most part, I'll leave that up to you.
I see it easily quoted in papers and research, I see it easily used in letters to the editor if your local paper picks up a story about the report. It kind of depends on what you want to do with it.
Do I see a legal implication for others outside of those who testified as we are considering possible legal action?
No.
But the possibilities of his gift are endless right now---it will just take some creativity on your end, or at least until I think of a better idea that you like.
In the meantime, I would do whatever you think it is that would work where you live.
Betsy
nimo6211
05-07-05, 10:57 AM
Congratulations and thank you Betsy and Peter for a job well done! :magic-2: I watched the hearing from the link you provided and was very impressed with the manner in which the HRC handled the issue. The testimonies were great and believe the clinchers. People spoke from the heart and I could not control the emotion I felt at such bravery and honesty.
So, where to now? What is going to happen to the report? I am glad Dr. Baskin said what he did because I am due to meet one of his endocrinologists (thank God not him) :mrgreen: on the 23rd of this month. Will let you folks know what transpired.
Have a nice weekend everyone and keep those heads up high....there is only good things on the horizon for us and the generations to come and keep up the good work paving the foundation into the "awareness and recognition" of our cause. :wave1:
Today when we received the email with it, I was alternating between jumping up and down and crying with joy over it. It's a huge turning point and it will be interesting over the next several days how people out in the "real world" react to it.
Hi Betsy
May I say a job well done by all involved.
I posted the link to all xxy groups I am affiliated with and I am most dissapointed by the lack of interest they have shown,perhaps I am associated with the wrong groups :dunno:
Tell me,in your honest opinion,is the inclusion of xxy under the intersex umbrella,for reasons of a boost to intersex numbers,given that xxy = 1 in 500 of all live births.
I ask,as this is the general consensus of a number of xxy's I have encountered who see themselves as male and will have nothing to do with any mention of intersex :stormy:
Once again,well done to all involved
Canice.
Tell me,in your honest opinion,is the inclusion of xxy under the intersex umbrella,for reasons of a boost to intersex numbers,given that xxy = 1 in 500 of all live births.
I ask,as this is the general consensus of a number of xxy's I have encountered who see themselves as male and will have nothing to do with any mention of intersex
I didn't include the part of your post regarding reactions in the quote above, but FWIW, the muted reaction has been something both Peter and I have scratched our heads over the past week.
On the XXY inclusion, the 'conditions' included follow the majority of medical professionals. That is, nothing has been added to boost numbers in any way. Many, many medical people sort KS as intersex, and thus we that is the definition we use.
The attitude of, "It's not IS" is actually quite common across many conditions the medical profession sort under the unbrella. I see it all the time with CAH women even though even physicians who exclude many types of genital or chromosome variations always include it.
Much of this also happens to follow the self-identification issues involved. Many, many people don't understand the medical definition of the word itself and believe it has to do with an identity or means someone is transexual, which as we know is incorrect. Taking it a step further, many men with KS do identify as IS and that too is taken into consideration. One of the key people behind the report and was instrumental in seeing it come to fruition was David Cameron, a man with KS. I see it use of the label often split among those who are queer in some way--gay, lesbian, bi, or trans and those who are not. Those who have already dealt in some way with other forms stigma have less of an issue than those who are heterosexual.
To me, it's actually a horrible word because of those misunderstandings but it something that's there and the focus on "sex" which also is misunderstood as a whole. I'd love to see a substitute word but what it is, I don't know.
Betsy
To me, it's actually a horrible word because of those misunderstandings but it something that's there and the focus on "sex" which also is misunderstood as a whole. I'd love to see a substitute word but what it is, I don't know.
Androgynous ?
Hi Canice
I don't know about many others here, but I'm more of a mixture than androgynous. And the longer that I'm on testosterone replacement, the less I'll appear to be either.
Labels only get you so far anyway. The advantage is in being able to talk with people who've had similar experiences - and in doing something about those experiences.
btw, where in Australia are you? All being well, I'm expecting to be in Sydney from sometime in July... I'll be looking for a new endo among other things (my last one at the RPAH didn't have much of a clue).
Morgan
the muted reaction has been something both Peter and I have scratched our heads over the past week.
It may take some time before people realize how usefull the report can be. Has there been any reaction in the media so far?
None that I am aware of and none that have turned up in the Google alerts I subscribe to.
However, there are two articles that reporters have done but have not yet seen print. Both are in major US markets and both include BLO.
Betsy
Androgynous ?
Naw...I don't think that works for the same reason intersex is not a good word. It makes people question the binary and my experience is that many intersex people are almost neurotic about being male or female.
Betsy
btw, where in Australia are you? All being well, I'm expecting to be in Sydney from sometime in July... I'll be looking for a new endo among other things (my last one at the RPAH didn't have much of a clue).
Hi Morgan
I have been away from the lists for a little while as I try to get some sort of balance back into my life which has been consumed with gender conformity since my diagnoses of xxy,some 4-5 years back.
I have been reading with great interest how society was instrumental in forceing your hand to conform to what it sees as being "true" male and will comment on this further,perhaps in a different thread.
To answer your question,I live in Sydney but,I am originally from Ireland (small world eh)
It would seem as though endocrinologist's who understand our plight are very thin on the ground,it has taken me three years and as many endo's,to find my present one,whom I would highly recommend
Dr Jon Hayes
MB BS, PhD, FRACP
jghayes@<hidden>
He has a practice at Bondi Junction and another at St Leonards
Kindest regards
Canice.
Hi Canice
You're a star :)
Hmm, the plastic surgeon was based in Woolahra, just by Bondi Junction.
It's a very small world...
I'll get in touch with you by PM, if that's ok...
all the best
Morgan
newoman
05-19-05, 01:02 AM
Hi Betsy,
I'm new to this board, but I have a smile on my face in appreciation of the progress for which you have been such an important facilitator.
I'm visiting your site because I was intrigued by the position of so many people who are intersexed--specifically: "We want our bodies left alone. We can choose our own gender, and the medical community needs to stop interpreting our options (and our parents' options) for us (and them)."
I'm a transgendered woman, fairly new in therapy, and my life feels like I'm a mixture, too--a person trying to find her unique way in the world. I am trying to find a way to live my life that is personal and truly fulfilling. I don't know for sure what lifestyle is best, and I'm not sure if a full dose of hormones and SRS is right for me.
Seeing your postings validated the idea that it's OK to want to be left alone to explore one's own answers in one's own way. I like the idea of being creative in this quest for an authentic identity. I also like your quote from Russell--how true!
So, thank you for having me here, and again congratulations!
I'm a big fan of simply being yourself, as you see fit--without trying to meet the expectations of others.
I think that is one of the things the report really accomplishes--that we are okay being ourselves and our body doesn't need to match or meet the expectations of others--socially or medically--as long as we meet our own standards and ideals by knowing the truth and being honest with ourselves.
Welcome to BLO :sign16:
Betsy
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