View Full Version : dating intersexed people
I have always thought of myself as a bi male, but something seem to always seemed missing and not right no matter who I was with. When in collage I dated a woman(lets say Pam) who was intersex. We were together for about six months, untill she took a job out of state. After that I knew what was missing. This was the only time in my life where I felt right. The problem that I have, I have not found another intersex person where I live. I tried dating sites. and shuned. I tried to find out more about intersex people on the internet and I am allways taken to porn sites.
The last 10 years have been hell for me. Those that I have told either think that I am mentaly ill or perverted. I't not like that. I truly felt whole when I was with Pam. Am I wrong for being this way? Where do I fit in when I'm not intersex, but want to be with someone who is? Please, someone let me know.
I don't think a dating site is a good place when you have a hole in your soul. Have you tried hanging out at "LGBT"-places, clubs?
You know, nobody will ever be able to replace Pam, because no two people are alike. So when you meet someone you like, don't compare him or her to Pam.
And no, you are not mentally ill :)
Sof
I agree with Sofie that you should try LGBT places. It concerns me that you are unable to find anyone else in the LGBT spectrum that you have something in common with. Why intersex people? I can understand it when intersex and trans people feel more comfortable around other intersex and trans people. But I find it creepy when people who are not intersex or trans say that the only person who they could ever find happiness with is an intersex person.
The other day, I discussed being intersex with an old friend from college. He said that my being intersex was ok with him. He then went on mention a story he had read where a guy finds an intersex woman as a lover, and how she was the best sexual partner that this fictional character ever had. My friend could not see my reaction over the phone, but I just stared at the floor with a wide-eyed expression of disbelief. It's insulting and offensive.
As the old Reggae song goes:
All over America,
People keep on asking me for Funky Kingston,
But I ain't got none,
Somebody took it away from me.
Peter
If you loved a person very much and loose this person, you probably keep looking for someone who is like the person you lost, and in this case it just happened to be an intersexed person. (At least that's how I understood the posting)
Dana Gold
05-12-05, 04:07 PM
The matter discussed here is open to definition and debate. The quest for a partner of "finite specifications" implies certain anatomic sexual features are a prequisite for a relationship. The implicit specification for an intersexed person as a necessity for companionship and/or sex is not so much of a mental disorder, but another example of humans' fascination or thirst with "something different between the legs", indicating to me that, perhaps, "they" are bored of their own "normalcy" and require a "walk on the wild side" to slake their sexual thirst......I , through life's experiences, have found this to be particularly evident with human males (whether hetero or otherwise sexual) In any case, whether intersexed and "queer-bodied" persons are being cut and/or injected by medicos, f*cked by "thrill seekers", or abused by "normals".....the end result is the same: It seems that it is rarely done in the intersexed or queer-bodied person's interest or benefit, but in the selfish fascination (or disgust) by the "normals" who focus on the genitalia, and not the person as an integrated human being with a mind.
edgb: The fact that you are looking for "another intersex" (replacement?) and seemingly have not kept in touch (writing, calling etc) with the former (Pam), sugggests to me you are not requiring the closeness of a relationship, but seeking sex with an intersex person and have become obsessed by that quest......... therefore I must say, I doubt you will find such a person here.
Usually I wish people good luck in their various quests; that salutation is not warranted in the matter of this thread.
sugggests to me you are not requiring the closeness of a relationship, but seeking sex with an intersex person and have become obsessed by that quest
I , through life's experiences, have found this to be particularly evident with human males (whether hetero or otherwise sexual)
We once received an email from wanna-fuck who is a lesbian. But only once and the vast majority of those who write are male. You'd be surprised at some of the emails we receive--one even claimed to be a physician and had he written with a real name, I would have outed him for it. I say we of course because Peter gets to enjoy the particularly odd ones, like the woman who recently wrote and wanted to be more like us and did we happen to know where she could get a surgical clitoris enlargement.
Betsy
Good Evening,
I tend to give persons on first meeting the benefit of doubt. Perhaps edgp is still longing for Pam, and she just happened to be intersex. What anyone will find, though, is that just because a person is intersex, trans, or gay, or human, does not automatically make them a good person. They have to be a good person in their own right first, and then, by the way, they may just happen to be intersex, trans, gay, or human.
However, with that being said, I have to say that for the most part, most persons here at BLO, most being intersex, some trans, some gay, and hopefully most are human, the persons here seem to "Get It". By that, I'm implying that most understand that humans do not come in strict binary body types and they have various outlooks, with most being very tolerant of others. And it is perhaps that is what edgp wants, not someone who is necessarily intersex, but someone who "Get's It". After all, that is one reason why I read all of the new posts daily, and although I might remain quietly in the back ground, I stay here. I stay here because I am accepted for WHO I am, not WHAT I am.
While I cannot accurately determine the motivations of edgp, and we cannot know exactly why he misses Pam, be it mental or physical fulfillment, I for one am willing to give him the benefit of doubt for now and listen to more of his story if he chooses to share.
Respectfully, Meadow
We do get some very touching letters at Bodies Like Ours. Recently, a teenage woman, who saw the ITL segment "American Gender" that features a great interview with Betsy, wrote to us. Her letter mentioned that she was using the family computer to send the message, despite the danger of being discovered by her parents. She said that she really loved Betsy's work, and that increased education around intersex issues is important, especially as so many teenagers know nothing about intersex conditions. She continued that she wished that there were a special school, where kids who are different could study in a safe environment.
It was a beautiful letter, and it reminds me of the importance of intersex people being visible. When I was young, there were no "role-models" for intersex people. There was no one around to say, "Hey, you can survive this and become a strong person". There was no one to talk with who understood what I was experiencing. There was no on-line peer support. There was no Bodies Like Ours. There are millions of intersex people in the world, but we are still largely invisible.
Peter
Dana Gold
05-12-05, 07:10 PM
Perhaps edgp is still longing for Pam
His quote:
The problem that I have, I have not found another intersex person where I live.
I'm not intersex, but want to be with someone who is?
Not want to be with Pam......but "another intersex"
If the above quote is true, then Pam would have been the focus of the post, and not finding "another" intersex........yes, even had it been that Pam was missed, then even finding another "like her" would have still been disrespectful toward the next woman....would you like to be the "replacement" partner of a lover or companion who sees the former instead of the you? I'm sorry, but I, myself, see it as a "slap-in-the face" either way. If I ever meet a man as a partner or companion, I would feel very insulted if he were to look at me or make love to me with another woman's vision in his eyes, heart, and/or mind... Or if he were just wholly interested in my "queer" body that is the same as "the former" that provided "wholeness".....where's the "love" in that!?
:whipg:
PS: If I'm wrong about all this I humbly apologize....but I just can't see it and my own intuition tells me so......and the "replacement intersex woman" would very likely suffer heartbreak for it.
I figure that if anyone wanted to date me because of my intersex status probably is not someone I want to date myself. :secret:
It just is and I give myself no benefit of the doubt when I encounter it.
Betsy
MelissP
05-12-05, 09:28 PM
I have always thought of myself as a bi male, but something seem to always seemed missing and not right no matter who I was with. When in collage I dated a woman(lets say Pam) who was intersex. We were together for about six months, untill she took a job out of state. After that I knew what was missing. This was the only time in my life where I felt right. The problem that I have, I have not found another intersex person where I live. I tried dating sites. and shuned. I tried to find out more about intersex people on the internet and I am allways taken to porn sites.
The last 10 years have been hell for me. Those that I have told either think that I am mentaly ill or perverted. I't not like that. I truly felt whole when I was with Pam. Am I wrong for being this way? Where do I fit in when I'm not intersex, but want to be with someone who is? Please, someone let me know.
Dear edgb,
Please define "Pam"-ness. What exactly about her (in your eyes) is lacking
in others? If what you seek is a quality of emotion or personality, then
what convinces you that it's surely bound to her being physically varient?
Are we talking about a Sweet November situation? The answer(s) are
important. And I personally would like to think that I'm more than just
a physically varient body. - Ml
I can't help but wonder if the Pam knows she was loved because of what she is and not who is she is. I have a feeling she might be horrified by it...
Edgb, why don't you tell us where you went to college? Who knows, maybe spacial Pam is in our midst.
Betsy
nimo6211
05-12-05, 11:31 PM
I am sorry but I find this thread offensive. I would hope that if someone would want me it would be because of what is between my ears and not between my legs......of course that would include my personality, my ability to communicate etc. Is that not the whole idea of making people more aware that it is not our intersexedness that makes us who we are, but our unique individuality which is just as "saleable" as those who refer to themselves as "normal". :sad_smile
Thank you for your responces. Good or bad, at least I know how some of you feel.
First let me say this, I do not think that this is a dating site. I'm not tring to live out a male sexual desire. Pam, the person that I was with, Made me feel whole. It wasn't all about sex. In the 6 months that we were together we had sex three times. I'm not looking to replace her. All of those that I was with before and after her never made me feel the same.
I live I a redneck area and my life would be af risk if any of them knew about me. Theres no info in book stores or elsewhere about intersex people. No one that I can talk to about this.
Again, I not looking for a date. I'm looking for what I know what makes me feel right.
Edgb,
Try checking out some of the bi orgs online and see if there are any where you live. Trust me when I say you shouldn't look at living in a rural area as being a handicap as queer people live everywhere--sometimes you just have to look a little harder.
Start with these folks http://binetusa.org/ and I bet they have links to local orgs where you live.
Thing is about your posting, you sound like you are putting intersex in there as a qualifier and it doesn't work that way.
It's kind of like a box of crackerjack---you simply don't know what the prize inside will be and even then, only after you enjoy the caramel corn and peanuts first. If you are dating people for who they are and not worried on whether that person is intersex, you'll have better success at finding happiness. Who knows, someone you meet could end being intersex but you'll know you engaged that person not because of what is between their legs but because of what is between their ears.
MelissP
05-13-05, 01:41 AM
Thank you for your responces. Good or bad, at least I know how some of you feel.
First let me say this, I do not think that this is a dating site. I'm not tring to live out a male sexual desire. Pam, the person that I was with, Made me feel whole. It wasn't all about sex. In the 6 months that we were together we had sex three times. I'm not looking to replace her. All of those that I was with before and after her never made me feel the same.
I live I a redneck area and my life would be af risk if any of them knew about me. Theres no info in book stores or elsewhere about intersex people. No one that I can talk to about this.
Again, I not looking for a date. I'm looking for what I know what makes me feel right.
As I was asking, what were her qualities that made her special to you?
and how would you distinguish her being different to you because of
IS's sake from she and you being soulmates? You said you've spent ten
years since then, and getting extra miserys because you're trying for
another lover who is IS. But the answers to those questions matter for
why and if you should be looking. Does this have anything to do with
the social scene in your "redneck" locale? If that's the case, it sounds
like you need a place with different paradeigms - Ml
I would hope that if someone would want me it would be because of what is between my ears and not between my legs......of course that would include my personality, my ability to communicate etc. Is that not the whole idea of making people more aware that it is not our intersexedness that makes us who we are, but our unique individuality which is just as "saleable" as those who refer to themselves as "normal". :sad_smile
I agree.with nimo. I want someone to want me for who I am, not what I am. Guys in the latter category are much more likely to view you as something rather than someone. Been there, done that, no thanks! I deserve better
Dana Gold
05-13-05, 12:47 PM
Dear Edgb,
I apologize for my harshness in my previous posts, but, then again, that's how I felt, given your post's content. Anyway, since you live in a "countrified" area (i.e. 'redneck') maybe this country song will convey the point I was trying to make; I forgot the title, but a passage goes like this: "looking for love in all the wrong places". With that in mind, I would like to say that it (in my opinion and feeling) that it was Pam herself that "made you whole", not her "intersexedness"; and you will perhaps not find the same by looking for another intersexed woman. I realize that it is human nature, when, after experiencing a loss, the person will long for "the loss" for a long time after. It is sad that she moved away and thus the relationship seemingly came to an end. If she was intersexed and, as you stated, that mere mention of intersexed would put one's life in danger; then I couldn't blame her for moving away.
However, I am still wondering why you are seeking and want to be (specifically and only) with another intersex person (woman). You wish to find out about intersex? Well then, you must know that intersexed people do not come in the same "package", as there are many different types of medical conditions (congenital) that result in ambiguous primary and secondary sex anatomic/physiological/genetic characteristics. BTW, what was Pam's intersex condition that coincidentally was of special significance to you in ascertaining that only another intersexed would be "the right one" If you tell us, that would "narrow down" your search considerably and perhaps find out something you were heretofore unaware of. And I do believe, with your posts, that you did ask "to find out more"...
I'm looking for what I know what makes me feel right.
......in order to "assist you", it would be considerate of you to "provide details".
Dana
prince....ss?
05-13-05, 09:01 PM
Welcome to BLO.
Sorry folks but I do feel the need to pipe in here. What’s the big deal here? So what, edgb likes intersex people and would like to find another. Good for you edgb. I truly hope you find the person of your dreams. The fact of life is some white people are attracted to black people and visa versa. Some guys love really fat woman. Some guys like big tits and other a tight ass. So I ask you what is the difference here, edgb is attracted to the intersex? You all owe him an apology except Meadow and a few others, you gave him the benefit of the doubt. So here we are screaming in defiance that we are not freaks and that the shame should be lifted from our intersex lives. Then here comes edgb looking for love, a person to make him whole and you all state or imply that he is in it to f*uck a freak. Shame on you all!
I see posts here all the time people wanting to meet someone, to love them, and to be their friend. But they have these bodies that they are ashamed of thinking “No one would want a person with a body like this” Well folks we now have living proof this is not true. This MAN edgb, would love to take you in his arms and love the daylights out of you.
So I say if you are single and intersex drop my friend edgb a line and say hello. If things work out, invite me to the wedding.
Sorry edgb, I intersex but taken…
Respectfully
Prince….ss?
MelissP
05-13-05, 09:50 PM
Well folks we now have living proof this is not true. This MAN edgb, would love to take you in his arms and love the daylights out of you.
So I say if you are single and intersex drop my friend edgb a line and say hello. If things work out, invite me to the wedding.
Sorry edgb, I intersex but taken…
Respectfully
Would you approve as much if a trans-fan wanted you for all the
things they thought you are, despite your self-knowledge that at
heart you're a unique individual who is quite different from their
expectations?
Umm, sorry edgb, if you'd like an apology. I may be single, but I'm
at yet unable. I'm not even sure what my sexual orientation is ... :-)
Ml
nimo6211
05-13-05, 10:17 PM
Sorry Princ.....ss??? I will not apologise for what I believe in (did I just apologise... :shock: to the wrong person though huh? :shades_sm ).
Unfortunately, I stand by what I said in that it is rather shallow for one to look at the "physical form" of the person to determine atraction. I would rather someone saw me as a lovable, intelligent, fun, "want to spend the rest of my life with" person than someone whose physical looks deteriorate with the passing years and when my partner finds it is no longer attractive, look elsewhere for another "physical attraction"> :(
Prince...ss, with all due respect, I disagree with you. If I wanted to be fetishized, I would place an ad on a website advertising myself as someone wanting it.
Edgb wasn't here bemoaning the loss of Pam who just happened to be intersex, but here was bemoaning the loss of an intersex person who happened to named Pam. There is a world of difference there.
People who have dating interests as you put out as examples are a different situation because in those cases, there is more of a dating routine because those things are ummm, obvious. In this situation, he is more interested in what is between our legs than what is between our ears and oh, btw if you are intersexed, wouldn't that be a nifty thing.
If someone I didn't know approached me and wanted a date because they knew I was intersexed, they would likely get a kick in the shin from me because I demand to be treated as a person and not a thing that is desired.
Seeking normalcy and acceptance does not mean being objectified as well. It means being treated as any person would like to be treated and at the top of that list is with respect. Being someone's fetish is not my idea of respect.
It's also not an appropriate forum for his search. He said he wasn't posting for a date but looking for suggestions. I believe some folks gave him some ideas from the get-go. We do have an ISO area however, you must be an established member of our community to post on it and and you must be intersex to post in it. It's a moderated forum--that is posts must be cleared by a moderator which at this point myself or Peter and in all honesty, there hasn't exactly been a rush to post there by anyone. In fact, despite all the emails we get from fetishists seeking sex, I've yet to receive one from an intersex person looking for the same thing.
One thing I have heard from this community since it began a few years ago was the same thing---they don't want people in here looking to date or have sex with someone who is intersex. One of the reasons we went to a 5 day waiting period for PM and profile access was because there have been some folks in the past who have done exactly that. They came in here and started sending PMs to people looking for sex.
Edbg simply posted his despair of the loose of the intersexed person named Pam and hoping that we could guide him towards finding another intersexed person, personality nothwithstanding.
Sorry, but seen one, seen 'em all.
Betsy
I think that Dana (in her first post) and Betsy are completely right on this one.
The superficiality of the interest is obvious from the title and age of the thread it was originally posted under: "intersex photos".
Morgan
Morgan, you have keen observation skills about where I had moved the original post from. Even though I did that, I totally forgot during the discourse. That was a thread which would have taken some digging to find before edgb revived it.
Betsy
prince....ss?
05-14-05, 12:21 AM
Ml. drgynfly Just as a point. If I had someone that thought of or saw me as beautiful, smart, and sexy… And in my heart I knew this was not true and I felt I was quite different from their expectations. Should I cast them aside? And most important question; How can you judge another’s expectations? Can You tell me edgb’s expectations? I think not…but you have apparently made a judgment the same way some people may have made unjust judgments against you. Are you assuming his expectations….
Nimo6211 no need to apologize to me. I respect your right to your opinion and I do agree with “I” would rather be loved for mind and personality. If I were born with a birth defect of “ the most beautiful and perfect body on the earth” and just by chance some man really likes that kind of thing should I not use this defect to attract him thereby also allowing him to discover my mind and personality? I can see it now I’m in a crowed room and a beautiful man across the room can see my mind and strolls over for a chat….Dreamer nothing but a dreamer….good song. How is it different being attracted to someone being beautiful than being intersex? No difference same miss-expectations.
Betsy. I am surprised by your response to this. I also respect your right to your opinion and I mean no disrespect with what I have to say. I am curious on how you were able to derive that much information out of one short post. In my opinion you have made assumptions and judgments about edgb, perhaps based upon other situations but none the less, judgments and assumptions. I’m glad you not a cop or a doctor or a judge…
Once again if some one approached you because you were “cute or hot” how is that different from being approached because you are intersex? Both are physical attributes
You keep using the word fetish, fetishized…I believe that refers to non sexual parts of the body? The word in relation to the topic was distracting.
Please keep in mind Betsy we are all different and have different needs and wants. What is good for you may not be for others.
I know this guy and he has this big fat woman for a wife she has to be every bit of 400lbs. her husband is this little guy of about 5’8” and 140 lbs. He will come right out and tell you he married that woman because she was so big. This guy is really freaky about the fat chicks. Any way they have been married some 18 years. He will tell you all about how wonderful it is to get “lost in her softness” This guy adore his wife and treats her like a queen…She wants for nothing. So how is this mans fetish for fat a bad thing. Or how could you make a judgment about such a thing? This is between him and his wife both happy.
Who is to say that edgb is not genuine? Certainly not me… I shall not cast the first stone!!!
MelissP
05-14-05, 12:47 AM
Ml. drgynfly Just as a point. If I had someone that thought of or saw me as beautiful, smart, and sexy… And in my heart I knew this was not true and I felt I was quite different from their expectations. Should I cast them aside? And most important question; How can you judge another’s expectations? Can You tell me edgb’s expectations? I think not…but you have apparently made a judgment the same way some people may have made unjust judgments against you. Are you assuming his expectations….
The only reply I'd made to edgb was to ask what edgb's expectations were,
what it was about Pam that s/he seeks in having another relationship w/
an IS individual. I didn't get an answer either time. So really ed's desires
are still unknown. But if the idea is to find another person with the same
charms, is it really worth limiting the search to only IS? I didn't think that
any condition X would determine one's personal qualities. If ed is looking
for something that won't be found under a microscope, then it seems like
s/he would do just as well looking at the non-IS folks too. As said, edgb
didn't answer that. So I'm not condemning, just asking questions whose
answers might be conducive to wisdom.
When I asked you that question, I meant would (you) personally want a
some ts-hawk who'd only want you based on their fantasies of how they
interpeted your life's story? Even though that's not the way it was for
you? I've known those who did get caught up with chasers, and it taint
wholesome at all. Not to say that edbg is the IS-equivilent to all that,
because s/he hasn't directly said. Only a question to suggest that desires
of others might not always by themselves be a sufficiently good reason.
- Melissa
prince....ss?
05-14-05, 01:24 AM
Ml. drgynfly I do understand your point and agree with you personally on a lot of your queries.
I do agree it looked like edgb was looking for an intersex person. Well this is a forum filled with them. But he did come out and state his objective. As far as I know he has not broken any of the rules here at BLO yet. It is none of my business why he finds intersex attractive and perhaps after he meets some individuals here, he may realize that Pam was special and not her condition. Someone just may like that kind of attention. I am not their parents or guardians. If the guy wants to go out with a consenting adult of any type, shape, or size. Why should I treat him like a predator after such a short statement?
This is my point. I do not like to be judged by other person’s assumptions. It is wrong to judge someone by your assumptions.
<rant>
In my opinion you have made assumptions and judgments about edgb, perhaps based upon other situations but none the less, judgments and assumptions. I’m glad you not a cop or a doctor or a judge…
People make assumptions about others the time. It's part of human nature. Cops, doctors, judges are often the worst offenders.
For instance, put a bumpersticker on your car that extols the virtues of drinking and I guarantee you will find yourself pulled over more because the cop is assuming he will snag himself or herself a person to bust for DUI. Is that not an assumption?
Got arrested already? You better not show up in court with a t-shirt from a beer company because if you do, there is no way you are beating the charge--is that not an assumption?
Show up with a yellow glow about your skin and the first thing the doctor will do will ask you how much you drink and check your arms from track marks--is that not an assumption?. Doctors particularly use assumptions as a diagnostic tool because those assumptions often lead to the correct one.
If someone approaches me on the street and has no clue who I am because they think I am cute, it is different than someone sending me an email because they found the work I do to be of their personal sexual interest (and yes, I have experienced both).
You are correct in your non-sexual part of a body being more reflective a fetish however that is the point. It's not like it is a sexual part of the body to some people but it's more of an ideal of what someone thinks it is. It becomes disconnected in reality and becomes the sole focus and thus it becomes a fetish.
I'm not saying fetishes are bad, but they need to have mutually agreed participants and if someone wants to be another's object of desire because of their body, that's great. However, people are not welcome to seek it out here unless it is the person with intersex and a member of our community that initiates it; the other way around is not acceptable here and I think I've made it clear that the members of this community for the most part have expressed a desire not to be subjected to it by those who wander in and are not intersex nor established members of the community.
If someone wants to be that object to a stranger, that's great too but don't do it here--there are other sites that serve that need and offer good hook-up opportunities.
If people wander in and post respectfully and establish themselves and then develop friendships with someone else here, I think that is wonderful; that however is not what edgb did. We get all sorts of non-IS folks in here and they aren't out to fulfill some type of fantasy or otherwise and they are most welcome here and I think for the most part, the community welcomes them and enjoys their posts.
As much as I personally find being an object of fantasy distasteful, I have a larger responsibility to this community to protect it from people who would like to exploit other people who may find this a place of comfort and hopefully a safe place to be and I will not allow anything otherwise to occur. I do that by placing people who I make a judgement which may indicate to me (or someone else expresses a concern--which happens more frequently than I make my own judgements), on close attention status. Sometimes it is a pain in the ass but it needs to be done.
I made a judgement to simply move edgb's post from the pictures thread that was 2.5 years old with no posts in that period to it's own thread. I could have just as easily made the judgement not to and simply delete it.
In a way, it is not all that different from what happens when suspected spammers register. Often the first one is just a sign of things to come and in both situations, it has happened before and likely will again. You never hear about them because it often doesn't take place as brazenly as this situation did---and yes, each of those times in the past, I made a judgemental decision that turned out to be right.
I suspect I may be exposed to much more of these situations than many others, if not most in this community and I see the mail that comes in---good and bad. I've started to share with some of that joy with Peter and frankly, if you are interested in dealing with those people, I'm happy to send their email to you and let you do it.
In doing a lot of media, I deal with others judgemental attitudes about us all the time and I've learned a good deal of street smarts about it. If I wasn't judgemental about many of those, this community and probably this organization would cease to be.
</rant off>
nimo6211
05-14-05, 02:56 AM
princ...ss honey, I see your point and edgb is fortunate that he has found an ally in you. It is however difficult to gauge one's sincerity on cyberspace and this may sometimes be confused with "reality". We respond only to what we assume edgb is conveying to those of us that read it.
As an intersexed person though I tend to get defensive as like Betsy pointed out there are many out there who have such weird expectations of what they perceive to be "a fetish", an excitement at experiencing the "out of the ordinary".......and it almost always involves "sexual adventures".
As Betsy rightfully points out this is not the forum for it, given the sensitivity many of us feel about the issue and many of us are still coming to grips with our individual "defects". I am sure you understand that.
Unfortunately, many of us have had experiences where our intersexedness is an issue and we would all like to be treated like normal people with normal relationships without being reminded of our inadequcies.....I hope I am making sense. Honey, many have gone through traumatic experiences which have not only physically maimed them but psychologically as well and we come to find solace and comfort here.
I agree with Betsy that if edgb had expressed his intentions differently without making it seem like a "I want your body, because it is intersexed", then he may have gotten more positive responses.
In any event and having said that, I would suggest that edgb start over, get to know us, read some of the personal stories and maybe he will find that there is more to us than just our intersexedness and may even be pleasantly surprised and realize that we are not whom we are because of our intersexedness. :regular_s
Hi Prince....ss and nimo6211
If this thread was still called "intersex photos" would that change your view of the posts?
Consider the means, as well as the ends. It's where and how edgb posted, not just what he said.
It's very easy to get pulled into an online encounter which isn't sexual for you, but it is for the guy (it's always a guy) who's chatting with you. I speak from personal experience.
On the one hand, it can be somewhat liberating to find someone who likes you for your (assumed or real) physical attributes. Particularly if you're single or in a relationship where those physical differences are the source of some discomfort.
On the other hand, if that interest lasts more than, oh, anything from 5 to 20 minutes, then you'll be lucky to not to find it deeply alienating and humiliating.
Maybe edgb is different, but he hasn't really gone about proving that very well.
Two other points:
- I've come to regard my surgical 'corrections' to meet the gender norm as the defect, not my prior state.
- I'm not sure that the example of the guy with the 400 lb wife is a good model. This is an extremely unhealthy weight that will shorten her life and make it a misery beforehand. I hope that he's not responsible for making her that big or keeping her that way.
Morgan
Hi nimo6211
Oops, I think I'm agreeing with you on the surgical stuff, rather than arguing with it... The words defects and inadequacies just hit a raw nerve. Sorry.
Morgan
prince....ss?
05-14-05, 10:50 AM
Betsy, Morgan and others.
It is true that we all make assumptions . To make judgments based on those assumptions is wrong. The cops, doctors and judges that act on the assumptions alone are not good at what they do. Nothing worse than people of that profession that will not listen to what you have to say because they have herd it all before and assume you are like all the rest. By your statements I feel that you are heading down that road. I do appreciate your efforts to protect this forum but I think edgb was very harshly treated.
His post may have been misguided. But he was very honest and upfront with both of his posts. He was polite and inquisitive. Some of the people here have made some very huge assumptions about edgb.
Why did he not stay in contact with Pam? 10 years ago email and internet was not as it is today. Perhaps she went to another state for the job and an old boyfriend. Perhaps he liked her more than she liked him. Assumptions were made that the lack of post contact with Pam was his idea. Therefore it was assumed that he wanted Pam but her condition. Big assumptions here gang. I use the word gang because you ganged up on the guy.
Interesting… From Betsy and Morgan and others(hello Morgan first time for us I think)
From what has been said here. You would have preferred edgb to have walked in here and put things differently. Being that on face value of his statements being honest…You would have preferred him to approach us with lies and deceit. “ Yes Baby, I do love you for your mind” as he grabs a huge hand full of ass… So I don’t get it, you would prefer some predator that hunts under the cover of polite conversation?
Morgan I can not make assumptions as to why edgb made that post in the picture section. But to be honest it does not bother me a bit. It seams that there is such anger and hatred and mistrust of “the normals” ( by the way that term is offensive) that the defenses are at the maximum and we will shoot anything that twitches. Sorry but that is a suck ass way to live. With that said I can not make assumptions of edgb’s intentions. His posts were polite inquisitive but perhaps misguided. But he twitched and guns went to blazing from all directions.
I suggest you all reread his 2 short posts and leave out YOUR assumptions and put all that hatred and anger aside for a moment. On face value I think he should not have been bent over the fence and given the business.
Respectfully
Prince….ss?
nimo6211
05-14-05, 02:48 PM
Hi nimo6211
Oops, I think I'm agreeing with you on the surgical stuff, rather than arguing with it... The words defects and inadequacies just hit a raw nerve. Sorry.
Morgan
I am sorry! By the way hello and welcome. I guess I grew up in a culture that sees me as "defective" and a "curse of God" and I have always seen myself as a freak as opposed to the "norm". I did grow up as a female though and most of it was a facade lying to the world, I was a "normal" female but secretly lamenting my inability to be a "whole woman", which was to get married, have children and a family of my own. If you do not fit into that stereotype, you are the target of ridicule and jokes at family gatherings and you laugh it away pretending that it is a choice for the "woman of the nineties"-married to your career-when in actual fact it hurt like crazy because it is not of choice.
So, for a very long time I have thought of myself as defective and inadequate and shyed away from any kind of relationship simply because I was ashamed to explain my "condition" and it was just too hard to explain. Of course, many thought I just did not like men and was still hiding in the closet but nothing was farther from the truth. I secretly longed for that relationship but held back from shame and believing that they would not understand me but make fun of me.
Anyways, to make a long story short, I found BLO and that changed and has created a much more confident me and appreciation of who I am and I have not reached the ultimate goal of "who cares" yet, but I am slowly getting there.
So, I apologise for offending you Morgan and ask for your understanding and patience as it is just out of "habit". Thanks.
Therefore it was assumed that he wanted Pam but her condition
Hi All!
Pam, condition… it doesn’t matter, this guy will never find what he is looking for, because..
Intersex is a physical condition
Intersex is not an identity
Intersex is not about sex as in “to f*ck”
Intersex has nothing to do with personality
Intersex is just one name for many different conditions
People with an intersex condition can be as nice/cranky as other people
People with an intersex condition can be as beautiful/ugly as other people
So it is one way or the other: he is nuts if he is here because of the condition, and he is also nuts if he really thinks that we can replace “Pam”.
This guy reminds me of about every new member of AISNederland. Almost everybody is amazed that apart of AIS, we have nothing in common… In a way you expect people with the same condition as you have, to be a kind of carbon copy of yourself. But that is not true… we are all different*
Groeten,Miriam
* = Monthy Python's Life of Brian:
Brian: "You have to be different!"
The Crowd: "Yes, we are all different!"
Small lonely voice: "I'm not different!"
prince....ss?
05-14-05, 04:13 PM
I agree with 99% of what you posted. We are all different and we all look for different things in others.
Your own words “Intersex is a physical condition” so is Tall, short, fat, skinny, black, white, red, yellow, man, and woman. If you find any of these physical conditions attractive you are normal. Right? So how is the physical condition of intersex different?
Intersex may not be an identity but it has affected us in some way that a typical person would not have in countered. I find that my IS condition has contributed to my views about treating people unjustly. I have been treated poorly in the past by others because I was different. I refuse to act in that manor to anyone because I know how much that can hurt another. I do not want to be like them bigoted, insensitive piles of crap.
Sex is into everything even intersex. You can’t buy toothpaste with out having a sex factor involved in some way. You know the beautiful person with great teeth pushing the sex appeal.
Intersex has everything to do with personality. Do you really think we all would have the same personality today if we were all born without this condition? I think not, but we all do have different personalities. That is very normal in my book.
Ok sorry 50% of your post I agree with.
When I first found out about my condition last November I came here expecting to find everyone here just like me. Opps, I was surprised that no one is like me. This is a good thing.
I think your name calling is a bit harsh, I don’t think he’s nuts, just uninformed. Well I guess that has changed…LOL. I don’t know if his intentions were pure, he did not say enough to make any real conclusions. All I know that if he were looking for answers, I think he found them.
Just imagine if he was genuine and pure in his motivations. How nice to find a room with people that he thinks would make him comfortable. Some one to talk to about his feelings, finely some answers. He opens the door and…. he gets shot, stabbed, knocked in the head, and then kicked in the ass. I’ll bet he realizes now Pam was nice and intersex people are not… Nice image.
Think I’ll hang my head in shame for a while.
Hi Princess,
I agree with everything that Betsy has said up to now in this thread. It is very important that this site be a "comfortable" place for intersex people.
edgb said in his first post that he has told various people about his obsession with Pam being intersex, and wonders if they view him as mentally ill or perverted. He also made a statement that he could only find future happiness with an intersex person. His words set off alarm bells in my head.
I personally consider this forum to be closer to a workplace environment than to a single's bar. I know that if edgb showed up where I work, and announced his desires, he would have been greeted with almost universal derision. You wrote about his reception here: "He opens the door and…. he gets shot, stabbed, knocked in the head, and then kicked in the ass. I’ll bet he realizes now Pam was nice and intersex people are not… Nice image." It's not the role of Bodies Like Ours to be "nice" in the way that you mean it. You are being way too harsh on intersex people. I don't believe that intersex people here reacted much differently than me and my co-workers at my job would have reacted in a similar situation. I also suppose that at my work, there would always be a couple of guys who would complain that I and my co-workers were not sympathetic enough to the desires of edgb, and that he should be given priority. It's not going to happen.
Peter
I think arguing about this is ridiculous! I mean, no offense to the 'opposing team' or anything.
First of all, as far as this 400 lb. woman thing goes, I've known people like that, too, and maybe he does treat her like a Queen, but let's say one day that she decides she's no longer comfortable with being so large. Her own confidence is lacking and being beautiful in her husband's eyes is no longer enough anymore, because that's not how she feels on the inside so she decides to go on a diet. How would your friend react to this? I mean, I don't want to assume anything since that seams to be the word of the day, but considering that he married her because of her size and has no shame in saying so, how would he react to this change? Would it upset him? Would she no longer be the same person in his eyes? Or would he accept it and let her do what she felt was best for her own body and see the beautiful person she is on the inside, loving her just as much even if she dropped down to even less than he weighs?
My own mother actually has told me that she is the most sexually attracted to MtFs who choose to keep their penis, but she has never actually went seeking one of them out. She fell in love with who she fell in love with and if she and my dad ever split up, she'd do it again. The issue is that it's about the person, not about their bodies and it's been stated many times by many different members when posting on this thread that nobody here wants to be objectified, and if he's looking for a physical feature, he should try going somewhere where people are looking for something like that.
I think it's just wrong for Prince….ss? to claim that the reason the members of this forum would take such an offense to edgb's post is because we believe that no one would want a "freak" like us. The issue is that we don't want to be sought out because of our physical differences, but rather accepted for them. And yes, perhaps some of us are still ashamed of our differences, but aren't we entitled to that right? Don't you think we deserve to come out into an accepting environment of people who wish to give us support, not make us feel uncomfortable and violated? It's not easy to build up the courage to get online and talk about the areas of your body you have usually tried to keep private, and when you finally do make that move, you want to know that you aren't speaking to a room full of perverts. Being objectified, or at least feeling like you are, during such a vulnerable time will not make you feel special and validated. It will have the reverse effect! I mean, how many of us know people or have been the person who is labeled a slut because at least someone is giving us that physical attention that we feel we're so ugly, no one will give us otherwise? Not that any of us here are freaks and I certainly don't want anyone to feel that's what I'm saying. All I mean is that so many of us initially feel that way because we don’t know any different, and for those us who do, we deserve a little more respect!
And actually, I can honestly say that when I'm in my lesbian forums and some guy comes in there telling me how hot I am and how he wishes I wasn't gay so he could have me, no I do not feel as though I have been paid a compliment, I'm sorry! It's a very uncomfortable situation in which the people who are saying those things should realize that before they even say it, because hello, it's common sense, which many people who pop into forums like this seem to be lacking.
So for my final comment, I would like to say that we might could easier believe edgb's intentions were pure if he were here defending them, but in these four pages of people who don't even know him debating where his heart or libido stand, he has only posted two short posts and therefore left us to assume. Perhaps, prince....ss?, if the man you are fighting for wasn't letting you do all the work in his honor, we wouldn't be left to our assumptions which you have tried so hard to shame us for.
prince....ss?
05-15-05, 06:28 PM
Hello and welcome, Wow !!! you said a whole lot in just a little space. So I shall try to sum up my perspective in relation to your post.
First off I would like to state that this issue is really not about edgb any more. I think some people successfully ran him out of town. With that kind of treatment I would not come back either. Well I guess the reason to mistreat the person was a success, I guess he is gone for good. I wish him luck if he was genuine.
In response to your second paragraph about the fat lady and her husband; from your same line of think…OK. Let’s say an alien space ship came down and sucked out all of her fat and then injected that fat into one of his dairy cows. Would he leave his wife and fall in love with his cow? How could I know? Speculation almost as bad as assumption!
Third paragraph; Sorry to say Joee, but there are many here that have issues with the appearance of their body. It is a very difficult and emotional time to consider standing before another undressed even more so having them touch you. I will say only from my personal experience because I can not speak for others. I understand when two normal people stand before each other for the first time naked. There would be some nervousness then that feeling would soon be replaced by other feelings. As for my self even though I was “surgically corrected” my first, second, third, forth time naked before the same person is very scary and quite uncomfortable. In the time where you should be relaxed and enjoying the company of the other I’m still a big knot of nerves. I have yet had the experience of becoming naked before a person that fully understands what is beneath the clothing but I can imagine the experience would be easier. Perhaps some one else has experienced that and would be willing to share. To stay on track I don’t believe edgb stated that he was looking for sex, he just wanted to associate with people he felt comfortable with. By the way, in the laws of natural selection among humans appearance is a biggie.
Joee, just to make my self clear on your forth paragraph. I did not intend to include rude and overt sexual come-ons. I have had more men shaking there thing at me (Literally) then I could shake a thing at( bad pun ) this is not what I was speaking of. What I meant by that is; that if a woman approached me with the subtle clues that she was interested in me, and being I’m not a lesbian, I would be flattered and would be careful not to hurt the person because of rejection. Same thing if the guy is very unappealing same thing I would be flattered and be careful of his feelings. What is the point of being rude and hurtful? None!!!
My final comment! I believe it is quite possible edgb is gone and for good reason, he was treated badly. I still don’t know if his intentions were pure or not. Like we both stated, he did not say enough to make that point clear. I shall capitalize this for the point and not to be considered yelling.
I AM NOT FIGHTING FOR EDGB, I AM DISSAPOINTED IN THE WAY HE WAS TREATED.
I am not saying things to shame anyone. I am saying these things because I was ashamed. It was like being back in high school and all my friends that I respect and honor decided to bully up on someone. I step in to make it stop but yet it was continued and feebly justified with assumptions and justifications. Sorry but that’s just mean. I will not stand by and have anyone bullied in my presents. If I’m asked to leave because of these feelings than so be it, I feel that I made my point respectfully.
Betsy has the power to make people who are breaking the rules or being bothersome to the community disappear forever. I do believe she does this with great care. So I don’t see the point of making a field day out of bullying someone.
Respectfully , and I do mean that!
Prince….ss?
prince....ss?
05-15-05, 09:38 PM
Sorry I overlooked your post it was not my intention to overlook you. By the way I can now see how much of yourself you put into the report. You must be very proud
edgb said in his first post that he has told various people about his obsession with Pam being intersex, and wonders if they view him as mentally ill or perverted. He also made a statement that he could only find future happiness with an intersex person.
Peter
Sorry Peter with edgb's full post below I can not help to see that your perception of what was said is not quite what edgb did say. Try taking the statements one line at a time
I have always thought of myself as a bi male, but something seem to always seemed missing and not right no matter who I was with. When in collage I dated a woman(lets say Pam) who was intersex. We were together for about six months, untill she took a job out of state. After that I knew what was missing. This was the only time in my life where I felt right. The problem that I have, I have not found another intersex person where I live. I tried dating sites. and shuned. I tried to find out more about intersex people on the internet and I am allways taken to porn sites.
The last 10 years have been hell for me. Those that I have told either think that I am mentaly ill or perverted. I't not like that. I truly felt whole when I was with Pam. Am I wrong for being this way? Where do I fit in when I'm not intersex, but want to be with someone who is? Please, someone let me know.
I do agree that this place needs to be a safe place for all who come here and I think you and Betsy are doing a great job. I do not think this is a dating web sight and it should stay that way. But I feel strongly that edgb was not given a chance to prove himself ginuine. After all everyone is not a master of the English language ... (spell check broke tonight sorry.)
Hi Prince...ss,
I don't understand why you are putting so much energy into "defending" edgb. We have not heard that much from edgb, and I feel that your time would be better spent posting your own personal concerns and getting the support that you need as an intersex person. I feel that by your saying that others have not given edgb a fair chance that you are painting yourself into a corner. Supporting other intersex people, and myself as an intersex person, is the most important reason for my association with Bodies Like Ours. If non-intersex people come here looking for romance, it’s not a high priority for me. If anyone felt close to edgb on the basis of what he posted, they were free to send him a PM. I don't think that makes me or others who have problems with him into bullies. I find Bodies Like Ours far more accepting than any school I ever attended. I have to go with my gut instinct. At first, I thought that edgb was confusing the terms "intersex" and "bi-sexual" and that he was really looking for a bi-sexual woman. That would make more sense to me. But in reviewing his statement, I noticed that he correctly described himself as a bi-sexual man, so I assume that he knows the difference between "intersex" and "bi-sexual". Anyway..... I hope all is well with you.
Peter
prince....ss?
05-16-05, 12:45 AM
Hello again Peter
I am doing very well, thank you for asking. I sincerely hope all is well with you also.
I would like to say this one more time and perhaps this time someone may actually read what I’m saying and not assume that I’m saying something different. Line by line just for you my friend Peter.
1) I am not defending edgb. I am disappointed in the way he was treated.
2) We have most likely not heard from edgb be cause he was treated rudely. (the reason for him not retuning is an assumption on my part. It is a fact that he was treated rudely)
3) Why would you think I was painting my self into a corner by speaking the truth?
4) My statements of concern are generalized and I have not pointed a finger at any particular members of BLO.
5) You feel my time would be better spent… Peter I am currently hammering down about 126 hours a week on average at work. I spend my time very carefully. I feel my time is better spent pointing out an injustice rather then wallowing in my own petty bullsh*t at the moment.
6) I do support other intersex people. But on the same note that does not give intersex peoples the right to be rude and bully someone for any reason. Just for the record if I saw an intersex or non-intersex commit a crime…I’ll turn them in.
7) Peter Please quote me one piece of evidence from edgb’s posts that states “specifically” he was looking for romance or sex.
8) Peter this is the problem…. Why did you and others have a problem with edgb? Please quote me a line from his post that you or others took offence to.
9) Peter you would think BLO is more accepting than any school you ever attended because you are one of the cool kids now, your in the “In Crowd” so perhaps you perspective has shifted.
10) I just find it interesting Peter. Why people refuse to see the truth. How people feel that they have no accountability for there actions towards another.
11) Peter did edgb break any of BLO’s posting rules?
12) This is most important. You claim that you wish to make BLO a safe and comfortable place for intersex persons. I agree and find that most admirable. But did you realize that the anger and hatred and bullying is making other BLO intersex persons uncomfortable. Normal people visit this site to learn about us. Would you like them to view the treatment edgb got along with others here. You, Betsy, BLO, and others in the public eye have a tremendous responsibility to the intersex community. If any of you go out in public and act like an ass we all look like asses. Therefore, if someone comes to BLO, intersex or not and view that childish school yard pig pile, then perhaps they would chose not to become involved in our community or view us as a bunch of horses asses.
13) Peter this is why I am taking a stand. It is not difficult to be polite even if you don’t like someone; if you are intersex and act like an ass, then we all look like an ass. If they break the rules kick them out
14) I hope you understand that I am saying this thing to make BLO comfortable for all the members not just a few.
Sincerely and respectfully
Prince….ss?
Hi Prince....ss
My problem with the post, which I think is implicit in what Betsy and Peter have been saying, is this:
There are 1,236 individual threads of messages posted at BLO - they're counted on the front page.
The one that edgb chose to post his message on was 2.5 years old and titled "intersex photos".
I know I'm new here, but I went back through a selection of posts over the past couple of years and I didn't pay attention to that one. I wasn't searching for pictures.
all the best
Morgan
First of all, I would like to apologize if I overstepped my bounds by being so bold as the new guy. However, I don’t feel that I did because this seems to be an open forum where everyone is considered equals.
Prince…ss?, I do understand where you’re coming from as far as defending edgb. I, too, understand what it’s like to be picked on and will always step up to defend the little guy at all costs. However, I personally, as well as everyone else who has posted in this thread with the exception of yourself, do not feel that edgb falls into that category. For whatever reason each individual has here, we found this to be offensive. Isn’t that enough? If we feel violated by this person who was literally, not just by assumption, looking for intersex PICTURES, do you really feel that it’s worth your time to shame us for feeling that way? Perhaps we should all just accept that we have different opinions and stop trying to convince others to believe like we do. It doesn’t seem this is going anywhere and it would be a shame to see this wonderful, accepting environment be torn in two because of one little person who came in and left a long trail of controversy. I don’t want to come off as a hypocrite having also thrown my two cents into the ring, but I want to let you know that this will be the last post I make on this particular thread and I hope that the rest of you will feel the same way. I personally have yet to form any sort of closeness to anyone here, but I know that a few of you have and I hope that you will simply agree to disagree and walk away without any hard feelings before it’s too late.
One more thing though, I would not compare this forum to school in any way. Again, I’m new here and I don’t have a lot of experience, but I do have my fair share of experience in life. I went to two separate schools for mentally “disabled” children, which promised a caring, safe environment. Instead, the school staff themselves actually ridiculed, punished upon their own prejudices, and even beat the students. BLO also promises to be a caring, safe environment for those who are different, but unlike the school where I was beaten and locked into a storage closet for defending gay rights, I personally have yet to see a single person attacked for not being intersex. You, prince…ess?, may feel differently, but I personally felt that you were the one doing the attacking, which is why I jumped in. I know you say that wasn’t your intention, and that’s exactly why I think we should all just quit while we’re ahead.
There are quite a few people on this forum who don't have, never had, and for various reasons can't have any intimate relationship, so I think we ought to stop this here.
There are quite a few people on this forum who don't have, never had, and for various reasons can't have any intimate relationship, so I think we ought to stop this here.
And I agree with that!
Betsy
prince....ss?
05-16-05, 06:59 PM
The following is all that I have been asking for Please read guide line #2:
The Bodies Like Ours Intersex Community forums are a private forum created to establish a cozy community among intersex people, our friends, and our allies. Our boards are moderated to help us achieve this goal and we ask that everyone respect the following rules:
1. Add something real to the mix. In most areas, one-liners and "me too" statements aren't enough to really get a conversation going. Longer, more substantial posts give others more of a sense of who you are and where you're coming from.
2. Don't be a bigot. Slanderous, defamatory, violent, abusive, insulting, threatening or harassing comments directed at individuals or groups of people are not tolerated.
Dana Gold
05-16-05, 07:28 PM
Prince.....ss
The one person in this entire thread that was slanderous and bigoted was me....I admit it. However, that doesn't detract from the reality that the thread starter's comments/wishes/desires were offensive to many. People who are not intersex need to know that it can be (to many, however not all,as you pointed out) offensive and hurtful and scary to be socially, romantically, and/or sexually desired just for the non-intersex person to "feel whole" or "satisfied" by virtue of being with an "intersexed" person....whatever that (intersexed) means in egbd's mind.
Egbd,s initial post brought back visions of abuse, and "romantic desires" of others from my past.... devoid of real love and caring..and full of selfish "satisfaction".....As for the purported raw disrespect and ranting ..... I am the guilty one when I reacted out of pure emotion since I have recently been dealing with a relapse into my panic and anxiety "disorder"....don't blame it on the entire group that they :attacked, shot, kicked in the rear egbd.....I'm the one who did that...initially.....the others only shared the truth of their emotions......derived from years of mistrust and fear from the people who are "normal".
I will say this however.....how can people (non-intersex) ever know the real experiences and real selves , if it requires us to have to "whitewash" ourselves "on our own turf"..."Little angels, all in a row...here to provide a cutesy-pie show"
That's all the posting for me..as these next few days will be better that I keep my mouth shut and abide by the BLO rules prince...ess posted....I am not the one to "tolerate" intolerance and/or ignorance and I can be quite nasty in saying so.....not so much because I hate the world, but that I fear where it has been and where it is heading....especially inre our nation (USA)....and, of course, what that means for me as an individual.
:outtahere
The following is all that I have been asking for Please read guide line #2:
The Bodies Like Ours Intersex Community forums are a private forum created to establish a cozy community among intersex people, our friends, and our allies. Our boards are moderated to help us achieve this goal and we ask that everyone respect the following rules:
1. Add something real to the mix. In most areas, one-liners and "me too" statements aren't enough to really get a conversation going. Longer, more substantial posts give others more of a sense of who you are and where you're coming from.
2. Don't be a bigot. Slanderous, defamatory, violent, abusive, insulting, threatening or harassing comments directed at individuals or groups of people are not tolerated.
Nothing that was posted by anyone in this thread comes even remotely under those guidelines which you reposted. In fact, neither edgb's original post and then his follow up post came remotely to being applicable under those guidelines. These are guidelines that were thoughtfully put together and more or less written by me although I did base them off of the guidelines in another community I visit once in awhile. There was a situation that prompted them and that is when they were posted, by me.
That said, this is an open community which is why edgb's post was not removed at the time he posted it. I figure everyone is an adult and thus are expected to behave as such, including offering opinions and feedback--good or bad, agreeable or disagreeable however they see fit and comfortable with.
Ultimately, acting like an adult also brings a time that people must agree to disagree. We are not all the same and none of think the same. Some of us find offense at some things when others do not--but rehashing the same point time after time doesn't get too far and simply frustrates all involved.
While I personally found edgb's original post to be repugnant, I did not feel it appropriate to delete it. That said, everyone here is entitled their opinions and to express them without become a bully themselves.
Betsy
-Sometimes you just have to recognize that everyone can't be right all at the same time.
prince....ss?
05-17-05, 12:16 AM
Hello Dana and Betsy,
Dana I did not point any fingers at one individual in relation to my topic of discussion. I do agree we will see things differently and that we will disagree but these are the ingredients to a great discussion. I love a good discussion. A discussion is not a fight. Betsy perhaps you see this as rehashing the same point but this topic is staying true to my original observation. I am only responding in a polite and respectful way to other posts addressed to me. I am glad that you agree that edgb did not violate the community’s guidelines.
I have always thought this to be a friendly and helpful place but here of late something else has been creeping in that I personally find uncomfortable. There is anger that gets unleashed when certain persons don’t fit in. It’s one thing to disagree and another thing that happens to people here when they are not welcome.
Personally I would prefer a thread to get locked or an offensive person suspended or booted than what has happened here lately. Sorry but that thing with Sara? was very ugly for everyone, now edgb. Betsy also include the PM I sent you. I am not taking sides with anyone on the subject matter, just making note to the behavior. You may feel that I’m rehashing a point, and I do agree with you on that, but no one wants to look at what I’m saying. I would just hate to see BLO and the intersex agenda progress in to something like PETA throwing blood on people or the Right to Lifers killing doctors that perform abortions. I’ll bet they started out as a friendly little community.
Betsy, just one more rehash. My point of this is not to make anyone feel bad. My point is to have people reexamine the way they treat others within the forum. Then perhaps we will not need Jerry Springer to host BLO.
Sorry your feeling frustrated, have a beer on me then you can be drunk and frustrated.
Prince….ss?
nimo6211
05-17-05, 12:55 AM
I apologise in advance if I am duplicating here but I agree that we have all given our opinions on the matter and in light of the fact that we have not heard from edgb himself that we should just terminate all discussions.
Dana honey, don't feel bad, your opinion is always welcomed and in fact very useful. That is the beauty of this forum in that we can all comfortably agree to disagree but know when to say enough and just move on with no hard feelings or regrets. Hugs and kisses. :mrgreen:
prince....ss?
05-17-05, 08:48 PM
Nimo 6211
Yes I do agree with you time to end this discussion. I can see that no one can understand the point I was making even though I tried and tried. If my point was made then perhaps no one cares. I am a person with a tremendous amount of self respect. It is very important to me on how I treat my fellow humans. When my judgment day comes hopefully it will be noted that I did the best I could have, thereby allowing my passage to better places.
Interestingly what I’ve come to realize is that even among “my peers” I don’t feel like I fit in. All I did was switch school yards. But that is ok because in my real world I am the cool kid and I created this “In Crowd” that I belong to. I also have the power to boot out someone or something that is disrupting the happiness of my world.
On a personal side, I have two sisters that in my opinion are not nice people they lie, cheat, steal, and are disrespectful to other family members. They justify their conduct with lame excuses or more lies. These people were disturbing my world. I gave them the boot and have not spoken to them in over 5 years. I will most likely only speak to them one more time in regards to the passing of their birth mother. After that I have no need to associate with people that are unable to respect themselves or others.
So yes I agree this is the end of discussion.
Respectfully
_____________
I would like to say something in defence of edgb. He is away on bizz and may be upset with me for this, but I fell that there are some things that need to be cleared up. Please excuse my miss splelling and grammer. My education may not be on par to yours.
I am edgb's wife and have been for many years. I am a gay woman who loves what he has done for me.He has provided me a home and two children. He is my friend and has been since we were both five. I wanted children and he gave them to me. He took me in when I was kicked out by my family for being gay. He has helped me threw very hard times in my life. He has never asked for anything in return. But I feel that I have to say something on his behalf.
Edgb ment no harm by what he wanted to say. He truly feels the way that he does. Pam is not the only intersex person that was in his life. there were two others since her. Edgb didn't go after pam because of what was between her legs. I set both of them on a date and it was pam who wanted to have sex with him.
This is about the time that edgb felt that he conected with someone in his life. He sried being straight tried being gay and tried being bi. At no thime did edgb ever feel like he belonged. Only when eh is with intersex people does he feel alive.
All he wanted to know was, were there other people out there that felt the way that he does. Some of you thought it was about sex only. I'll tell that it's not. Pam was more of a friend to him than sonething for sex. Pam moved because of a great job. He told her to go. Now she is a v.p. for a computer firm in Japan. He still talks to her, and even gave her away at her wedding last year.
Where we live there is no info, or meeting places for edgb to go to. And if some people around here knew about how he feels they would kill him. He is deeply for human rights of a types, and does not beleave in exploting anyone for who or what they my be.
I know that there are thoese of you who doubt what edgb feels, but I know what is in his soul. I know how he is wired, just like I know how I'm wired. Did you ever think that he may be misplaced in the wrong body? That he is just as confussed like some of you where? All he wants is info and some support, not to be made into a monster.
I thank you for your time, and I hope that my responce clears some things up for all of you out there.
MelissP
05-18-05, 04:13 AM
I would like to say something in defence of edgb. He is away on bizz and may be upset with me for this, but I fell that there are some things that need to be cleared up. Please excuse my miss splelling and grammer. My education may not be on par to yours.
I am edgb's wife and have been for many years. I am a gay woman who loves what he has done for me.He has provided me a home and two children. He is my friend and has been since we were both five. I wanted children and he gave them to me. He took me in when I was kicked out by my family for being gay. He has helped me threw very hard times in my life. He has never asked for anything in return. But I feel that I have to say something on his behalf.
Edgb ment no harm by what he wanted to say. He truly feels the way that he does. Pam is not the only intersex person that was in his life. there were two others since her. Edgb didn't go after pam because of what was between her legs. I set both of them on a date and it was pam who wanted to have sex with him.
This is about the time that edgb felt that he conected with someone in his life. He sried being straight tried being gay and tried being bi. At no thime did edgb ever feel like he belonged. Only when eh is with intersex people does he feel alive.
All he wanted to know was, were there other people out there that felt the way that he does. Some of you thought it was about sex only. I'll tell that it's not. Pam was more of a friend to him than sonething for sex. Pam moved because of a great job. He told her to go. Now she is a v.p. for a computer firm in Japan. He still talks to her, and even gave her away at her wedding last year.
Where we live there is no info, or meeting places for edgb to go to. And if some people around here knew about how he feels they would kill him. He is deeply for human rights of a types, and does not beleave in exploting anyone for who or what they my be.
I know that there are thoese of you who doubt what edgb feels, but I know what is in his soul. I know how he is wired, just like I know how I'm wired. Did you ever think that he may be misplaced in the wrong body? That he is just as confussed like some of you where? All he wants is info and some support, not to be made into a monster.
I thank you for your time, and I hope that my responce clears some things up for all of you out there.
Ahem ... ... ... Seeing as this seemingly contradicts what edgb described;
and that the things you are saying might appear a bit odd on their face;
and umm relatives just suddenly posting via someone's account is always
suspicious, especially in the case of posters with tarnished reps. I guess
this finishes my treating edgb with the same agape I usually give freely.
Edgb, if you were on the level, you've got probs. And no, I wouldn't want
to date you. - Ml
Sunshine1
05-18-05, 11:00 AM
I don't agree with many things that the ISNA writes but there web page might be something of interest for you http://www.isna.org/fag
It's sad to me that you don't know what the different types of intersex conditions even are but with that I can tell you that upon telling three different men about how I was born they promtly told me that they were bi- sexual but I'm not into bi-sexual men so that really was that.
Maybe on some level people with Intersex medical conditions help you feel more comfortable with yourself? . I don't need anyone to complete me or make me feel whole like how you wrote and dude that was the part that was creepy but maybe it was just taken from that movie Jerry Macquire or something?
What about "these people" or Intersex medical conditions that draws you in? I feel like the biggest freak right now because people don't seem to think of us as people down to all the doctors that turn pink when I tell them how I was born to the guy I'm dating right now that after tell him how I was born keeps going you are the most interesting person I've known. No wonder why I drank so much alcohol and from time to time consider suicide. Forget about therapists because they have no fucking clue about any of this anyway and you are really there to educate them. I went to therapists and got "I dont know what those words mean" . We're not really zebras you know. We fit into straight, bi sexual or homosexual/lesbian, most don't have a problems with gender and maybe some reject all of that also which is no different than someone without an intersex condition. I take it from the last thread you are married with at least an emotional relationship with someone else but are here looking for a freak on the side not even worth your full attention.
Good luck to you.
If anything this was a good thread because look at all the responses compared to the replys.
Dana Gold
05-18-05, 09:00 PM
All he wanted to know was, were there other people out there that felt the way that he does.
And he got his answer.., maybe I can help, if noone here can:
www.edgb.com
http://hs.qsrch.com/dpark?Keywords=Photo%20personals&udomain=hogsearch.com&upartner=hs01&ps=HSUSUERB&loc=RT
No. 3 might be helpful for edgb, yes, or no?...edgb's quote from "2nd reply":
Again, I not looking for a date.
There's something not right with this whole picture....never mind the "seek intersex" thing....."egdb" doesn't answer simple requests from group members,
away on bizz doesn't mean no access to Intenet, now there's more than one "intersexed" since Pam, the wife is posting the same appx evening time as "he" has...the same theme over and over....egdb just needs an intersexed, despite many objections to that plea from the members here.........
This, whoever you guys are, if "for real" is very distasteful to many of the members here....don't you "get it" by now?, or is your persistence on purpose?... to upset people!?...a hoax, maybe?..amusing to the pranksters?
I believe that "edgb" is just a bored guy with access to a computer. In searching the internet, I found a "personals" listing by an "edgb" who also claims to be 37 years old. The post goes:
"a little about me
I'm no Brad Pitt, but I'm no George Kenstanza either. I'm honest, straight foward, and will not give you drama and the run around like others. I'll give you no b.s., lies, or head games. I'm in my 30's but look a lot younger. I'm an artist, a music writer, I work as a photographer.In my spare time I write stories and poems. I live near a lake so I know something about the out doors. Into action and horror movies. I'm very open minded and free spirtted and will try or do almost anything once. I'm always open to new ideas.
I like to talk about music. I like metal, punk, hard rock. I'm a t.v. junckie. I like reading and movies. I like seeing new places, and doing new things I Have some pets. I collect junk, and shop. I like to stay up late and do stuff.
what i'm looking for
A person who is free spirtted. someone who wants to go out and have fun out on the town. Tries to make everywhere and everything an adventure. Not afraid to let things happen when they do. I'm not a picky guy when it comes to women. You can be any race, short, tall, skinny, chubby, plain, or what ever. Rock, goth, punk, I'm not too vane about a person's looks.
Please be very open minded towards life fun adventures, thoughts, and sex. Life is short and I want to try all that is out there."
I respect edgb's privacy, so I am not going to provide any additional information. Edgb, I resent the mind games that this forum has been subjected to over the last week or so. It all seems to have been a cruel prank for your personal amusement.
Peter
MelissP
05-18-05, 10:18 PM
Hi Peter,
It was easy enough to find from the bits you gave.
I suppose most people might consider that section
of the country to be sort of conservative ("red-necked"?)
- Mel
ariadne
06-04-05, 08:59 PM
Betsy says:
sugggests to me you are not requiring the closeness of a relationship, but seeking sex with an intersex person and have become obsessed by that quest
Sofie says: I don't think a dating site is a good place when you have a hole in your soul. Have you tried hanging out at "LGBT"-places, clubs?
You know, nobody will ever be able to replace Pam, because no two people are alike. So when you meet someone you like, don't compare him or her to
Sof[/QUOTE]
IMHO I think if EBGB goes to a LGBT club then this is actually pushing EBGB down the "just wanting to meet intersexed girls to have intercourse" path...
I am having the same problem- I want to meeet an intersexed girl to "help in whatever way I can"
Ade
nimo6211
06-05-05, 12:53 PM
I am having the same problem- I want to meeet an intersexed girl to "help in whatever way I can"
Ade
I am curious. How exactly do you think you can help? I take it you are not intersexed.
prince....ss?
06-05-05, 02:22 PM
That is a good question. But If I remember correctly I think a lot of people were hoping this thread would fade off into obscure history. I hope this is not Round #2
nimo6211
06-05-05, 02:31 PM
Hi princ...ss. I hope you are well and having a good weekend :) It is warm and beautiful out here in Northern CA. Trust it is the same where you live.
I think we had agreed that we would hear out everyone who visited before making any pre-judgements. I think the moderators will intervene should the thread go out of hand. Have a great Sunday. :shades_sm
I think we had agreed that we would hear out everyone who visited before making any pre-judgements. I think the moderators will intervene should the thread go out of hand.
We did?
I would prefer that people who are not intersexed but interested in dating someone who is refrain from posting here. It's not what this site is intended for and I don't want it to become an IS dating site.
If people are interested in meeting others outside of this immediate community, I suggest online personals.
Betsy
melonaide
06-05-05, 07:19 PM
I don't know what's going on here because I'm not patient enough to read it but one thing that did catch my attention was something about someone dating a 400 pound woman for her weight and then her losing the weight.
First of all....since when is it common for people to marry someone for such things and not the person they are? I'm not arguing with that person its just that I saw that and it didn't make any sense to me.
Now I don't know who this person that has made everyone mad is but I will say that I feel targeted indirectly by some of the things said that I have read.
For all who have read my post know I'm not intersexed but I started posting here and I have given to the forum because I think it was a positive thing to stay up and running and I will also say that I have dated many guys who were not intersexed and it never turned out good. I am a 30 year old female who has abit of excessive hair growth, what I see as oddly formed genitals to what is considered normal and many many other reasons for not wanting to date a highly viril man...such as pain. I know my body and I know who I am and I know my limits and what I'm capable of and I sit here with tears streaming down my face wanting to put my fist through my computer screen knowing that I don't fit anywhere into this world and I never will but that's ok because I'm "normal"
Thanks alot and have a nice day!
Hello Melonade,
I'm not quite sure what (who?) you are upset with but feel like I should clarify my post/statement in case it was something in there. People who are not IS are most welcome here---and yes, you have been a valuable member of our community. However, when people register and post right off the bat they are here to hopefully find someone who is IS to date, it's very problematic for me.
Betsy
Hi Melonaide,
I am sorry to hear that you are feeling bad. I think that it is something of a rite of passage with Bodies Like Ours that you are not a "real" member until you have read something that makes you want to cry and want to punch the computer screen. Emotional vulnerabilities are exposed when we discuss painful topics. I believe that for most intersex people, the notion that someone would want to date us because we are intersex is a painful topic. I hope you can understand. Thanks for being honest about how this thread made you feel.
Peter
nimo6211
06-05-05, 08:51 PM
Aww.......and here was I thinking that he might be able to "help intersexed people" by promoting us or even financially...all for a good cause.....like change something negative into positive...spoilsports :(
melonaide
06-05-05, 11:13 PM
Excuse me while I have a misguided mental breakdown for multiple reasons.
I do appreciate the replies. I'm much more used to having the door slammed in my face.
I don't have trouble finding men to date. I have trouble making things work with men. Maybe I feel guilty because I deeply have this notion that if I met someone who I had things in common with that also happened to be a very feminine male....physically......that it would have a better chance of working.
Not only would I be in a position to help them, but they would be in the position to help me. We would help each other as two people who care about each other would. You see....I must admitt despite the reaction that I may get that I AM interested in dating an intersex male. I don't know how I can help this. It's not just to try something different.....maybe that's what all the offence is about, but I'm a little paranoid I guess and everybody else is pissed off at me so why not everyone at bodies like ours as well.
ariadne
06-06-05, 02:26 PM
I'm not quite sure what (who?) you are upset with but feel like I should clarify my post/statement in case it was something in there. People who are not IS are most welcome here---and yes, you have been a valuable member of our community. However, when people register and post right off the bat they are here to hopefully find someone who is IS to date, it's very problematic for me.
Betsy
In one of your previous posts you suggest that people go to internet dating sites. In my book thats for perverts. I was only looking for information really. There are genuine people out there like me-what is it with people? Just because I have just signed up and posted does not mean I have done this "willy-nilly". Dont tar me with the same brush as those who come in here to wind people up.
Ariadne
ariadne
06-06-05, 02:28 PM
....... And I have tried looking out there on websites anyway and all I find is pornography - and thats clearly not what I want.
Ariadne
Hi Melonaide,
You wrote:
"I don't have trouble finding men to date. I have trouble making things work with men. Maybe I feel guilty because I deeply have this notion that if I met someone who I had things in common with that also happened to be a very feminine male.... physically...that it would have a better chance of working."
Good luck on finding a very physically feminine male. I can see why women might be attracted to men who fall outside the traditional notions of masculinity. In my experience, intersex men, with the exception of PAIS individuals, do not tend to be particularly physically feminine. We may sometimes think outside the "masculine" box, but our bodies are often rather boring in the sense of being non-androgynous. Intersex men come in all shapes and sizes. The other day, an intersex friend said to me, something along the lines of - "What I like about you Peter, is that you are a big man, and when you get up in front of an audience and say that you were born with a vagina, it blows away people's pre-conceptions."
Peter
melonaide
06-06-05, 05:03 PM
Hi Melonaide,
You wrote:
"I don't have trouble finding men to date. I have trouble making things work with men. Maybe I feel guilty because I deeply have this notion that if I met someone who I had things in common with that also happened to be a very feminine male.... physically...that it would have a better chance of working."
Good luck on finding a very physically feminine male. I can see why women might be attracted to men who fall outside the traditional notions of masculinity. In my experience, intersex men, with the exception of PAIS individuals, do not tend to be particularly physically feminine. We may sometimes think outside the "masculine" box, but our bodies are often rather boring in the sense of being non-androgynous. Intersex men come in all shapes and sizes. The other day, an intersex friend said to me, something along the lines of - "What I like about you Peter, is that you are a big man, and when you get up in front of an audience and say that you were born with a vagina, it blows away people's pre-conceptions."
Peter
Well, I don't exactly mean a man that looks like a woman, per se. It's more about how their physical presence makes me feel all the way into the bedroom and what takes place therein. The men I've known are hard to describe in their masculinity. It is too much for me. People who know me without even having discussed it with them have suggested that I was gay and some insist. I find that very aggravating because I'm not gay. I am just too stubborn I guess to accept that men are so dominant and they can't help it....and I know that behavor and physical characteristics can vary greatly in men with the absence of being intersexual, but I find it very revealing that every single one I have known intimately and no way I'm divulging numbers here, has shown this overflow of male dominance and they can't seem to help it. Either it be in the size of their genitalia which scares me, or in their chest bowing actions that constantly offend me or their male aggression or just their way of thinking that I will never understand.....and I have tried, believe me.
I have wrote about a young guy I knew that passed away and he was small and thin framed but he didn't have any outward female characteristic except perhaps his skin and his lips and his voice tone...not way of speaking, but he always kept his hair short and dressed nothing near feminine and did not look like a girl but still there was something about him that was different from any other guy I've met and it puts me at ease....not only mentally but physically. Instead of repelling me like reverse polarity it draws me to a person. I've known many guys with somewhat feminine characteristics....in their actions and their way of speaking or dressing or even the way they look and it's not quite the same 'feeling' I get as when I begin to notice the less than obvious about someone. When you are asleep and someone walks into the room, can you feel their presence? When you are near a person and you close your eyes do you get the same feeling as you would with anyone else? For me its sometimes....I'm sure it is with most people but what I mean is that sometimes maybe you can feel something from a person that isn't so obvious untill you begin to see subtle details and then there's always the obvious physical side and I don't mean outward appearance.
absinthium
06-20-05, 06:33 PM
Hello, all... :wavey:
I am brand new on here, so forgive me for stepping on any and all toes, but I do feel the need to say something, and hopefully by giving my perspective, I can help. I will also apologize in advance for being so long-winded, but there's several years worth of buildup that simply needs to come clean.
I am a bisexual genetic female (whatever that means...) and have always been curious about all things involving sex. My entire life I've been attracted to men and women. I don't really see the differences between these distinctions that so many people hold dear. People are people to me, and the whole man vs. woman thing has always seemed idiotic and unnecessary, as I've always felt that we're more similar than we could ever be different.
I've never felt like I identify 100% with what others expect when they say "female". I've always considered myself a pretty even mixture of the sexes, and I've had my sneaking suspicions that other people are more of a blend than they would ever admit. I've given a sex change thought over the years, and have gone so far as to think the body that would suit me best, by society's standards, would have to be one with both male and female organs. I never feel like I'm understood by any of my partners when I try to explain this to them, or anyone else for that matter.
I saw a special a few years ago on the Discovery channel, entitled "Is it a Boy or is it a Girl?". It was a special on intersexed persons. At the risk of sounding cheesy here, I will admit that it changed my life and the way I thought about gender. After I saw it, I threw myself headlong into doing all the research I could as to what it was like to live being intersexed. I read countless touching stories from people who described what going through school was like, their horror at the idea of being found out, their inner confusion and frustration, the constant pressure to fit into one assigned mold or the other... It all sounded very familiar to me.
I began to get this feeling, like maybe if anyone could possibly understand what is going on inside me, it would be someone who has had similar struggles. I've tried finding dating sites and other such communities so that I could meet people such as this, and I always come across this backlash of intersexed folks who don't want to be seen as a fetish, and immediately take offense to the mere mention that a non-intersexed person would want to have a romantic relationship with someone who is. It's always made me feel tremendous guilt, and has made me very wary of pursuing anything any further.
You must understand, there are open-minded normal people out there who first of all DETEST the word "normal," and simply would like to date people outside the standard scope of "male" or "female". It's not always the case that we want something tawdry or cheap out of the relationship... Perhaps there are people out there that just feel they could be comfortable and identify better with someone who had certain life experiences. Maybe it's not that the genitals are what's important, maybe they're the last thing on our minds.
That being said, I've never been offended when my partners have told me they find my body attractive. I've never felt any animosity toward them because of the fact that they perceive me as female... I understand that some people are simply attracted to females, and that's that. We all know there's a lot more to being female than being a vagina-bearing mammal. I feel the same is true for any individual. What makes an intersexed person is certainly not their reproductive organs. What makes ANY person is what's inside their heart and mind.
I feel for the man who originally started this thread. Perhaps he was not able to articulate what he meant as well as some of us would have liked, but I think his intentions are good.
How many of us out there, after having a relationship end, want nothing more than to be close to someone again? If you're attracted to exclusively to men, you'll want another man in you life. If you're only attracted to women, you'll want a woman. This fellow's best relationship was with someone who was intersexed. I don't see anything wrong with him wanting to try to have a satisfying relationship again.
...So there's my two cents worth.
Sunshine1
06-20-05, 10:29 PM
I would hope someone would be attracted to people that don't make insulin or people that don't make thyroid hormone because that is what CAH is most like. I lacked the ability to make cortisol and need cortisone to live and extra during times of physical stress like illness or operation for my adrenal gland because of a metabolic defect that because of the lack of cortisol allowed excessive adrogens to make my external genitals ambiguous looking similiar to how someone is born with a cleft palete or hear defect and like those birth defects I was given surgery for the affected area at the right time for me and some it could be later to allow for my period to flow through and later sexual intercourse. I have only female chromosomes and only female reproductive organs. Women with CAH can and do have their husbands children. Lesbian couples that go that route would also use a sperm donar. Many with CAH don't even fit the Intersex Definition.
Would I identitfy 100% or at least 95% with what others expect when they say female? Yes, I would.
There are many, many different intersex medical conditions. The people that have them do for the most part identify with female or male gender identity and some do not like those that don't have any intersex condition like yourself. Some with intersex conditions only have female chromosomes, others only have male and some have a little more in that department but still like most without intersex conditions we fit into one gender or the other.
Maybe intergendered is the word you need to find what you want?
This fellow's best relationship was with someone who was intersexed. I don't see anything wrong with him wanting to try to have a satisfying relationship again.
He's welcome to pursue a relationship with anyone he wants, he just isn't welcome to do it here or use this site as a dating forum.
Betsy
batousai
06-28-05, 12:18 AM
Hello, all... :wavey:
I am brand new on here, so forgive me for stepping on any and all toes, but I do feel the need to say something, and hopefully by giving my perspective, I can help. I will also apologize in advance for being so long-winded, but there's several years worth of buildup that simply needs to come clean.
I am a bisexual genetic female (whatever that means...) and have always been curious about all things involving sex. My entire life I've been attracted to men and women. I don't really see the differences between these distinctions that so many people hold dear. People are people to me, and the whole man vs. woman thing has always seemed idiotic and unnecessary, as I've always felt that we're more similar than we could ever be different.
I've never felt like I identify 100% with what others expect when they say "female". I've always considered myself a pretty even mixture of the sexes, and I've had my sneaking suspicions that other people are more of a blend than they would ever admit. I've given a sex change thought over the years, and have gone so far as to think the body that would suit me best, by society's standards, would have to be one with both male and female organs. I never feel like I'm understood by any of my partners when I try to explain this to them, or anyone else for that matter.
I saw a special a few years ago on the Discovery channel, entitled "Is it a Boy or is it a Girl?". It was a special on intersexed persons. At the risk of sounding cheesy here, I will admit that it changed my life and the way I thought about gender. After I saw it, I threw myself headlong into doing all the research I could as to what it was like to live being intersexed. I read countless touching stories from people who described what going through school was like, their horror at the idea of being found out, their inner confusion and frustration, the constant pressure to fit into one assigned mold or the other... It all sounded very familiar to me.
I began to get this feeling, like maybe if anyone could possibly understand what is going on inside me, it would be someone who has had similar struggles. I've tried finding dating sites and other such communities so that I could meet people such as this, and I always come across this backlash of intersexed folks who don't want to be seen as a fetish, and immediately take offense to the mere mention that a non-intersexed person would want to have a romantic relationship with someone who is. It's always made me feel tremendous guilt, and has made me very wary of pursuing anything any further.
You must understand, there are open-minded normal people out there who first of all DETEST the word "normal," and simply would like to date people outside the standard scope of "male" or "female". It's not always the case that we want something tawdry or cheap out of the relationship... Perhaps there are people out there that just feel they could be comfortable and identify better with someone who had certain life experiences. Maybe it's not that the genitals are what's important, maybe they're the last thing on our minds.
That being said, I've never been offended when my partners have told me they find my body attractive. I've never felt any animosity toward them because of the fact that they perceive me as female... I understand that some people are simply attracted to females, and that's that. We all know there's a lot more to being female than being a vagina-bearing mammal. I feel the same is true for any individual. What makes an intersexed person is certainly not their reproductive organs. What makes ANY person is what's inside their heart and mind.
I feel for the man who originally started this thread. Perhaps he was not able to articulate what he meant as well as some of us would have liked, but I think his intentions are good.
How many of us out there, after having a relationship end, want nothing more than to be close to someone again? If you're attracted to exclusively to men, you'll want another man in you life. If you're only attracted to women, you'll want a woman. This fellow's best relationship was with someone who was intersexed. I don't see anything wrong with him wanting to try to have a satisfying relationship again.
...So there's my two cents worth.
Sounds like to me your Bi-Gendered...
Although I have a Bi-Gendered friend, hir only likes guys (but hir is intersexed...) so I can't help you with finding you someone like yourself to date (same for the person who starteed this thread), cause I think its not someone that's intersexed you want, but someone who is Bi-Gendered, who your previous partner might have been...
and I don't know many cents that is...:-)
Jessica
I personally will not date anybody who I am not first acquainted with, the real person to me is who comes through no matter if they are intersexed or whatever, jerks are jerks, kinky is kinky and lust is lust, no way would I want to have any form of interaction with anybody who can only think with their glands and and not seeing past their own selfish desires.
i am just at the foundational level of intersexed in being an XXY male but have to say up front that I would be much happier with one who is completely intersexed with duel genetalia and identifying as a women than I would any who can not think past their body or at some animal level. Have been celebate since 1971 and not that hard to stay that way, just rare when we can find relationships that go deeper that say who that person really is since I believe only three kinds of people exist in the world, the natural person, spiritual person and the carnal great pretenders who are not total about anything and like to have it both ways.
MelissP
07-27-05, 05:37 PM
I personally will not date anybody who I am not first acquainted with,
No blind dates? :-)
i am just at the foundational level of intersexed in being an XXY male but have to say up front that I would be much happier with one who is completely intersexed with duel genetalia
I thought that true hermaphrodites were supposed to be a popular
mythconception?
and identifying as a women than I would any who can not think past their body or at some animal level.
Just from curiousity, why is female identification required for not having
an animal mentality?
Have been celebate since 1971 and not that hard to stay that way, just rare when we can find relationships that go deeper that say who that person really is
I've found lack of sexuality to be quite maddening, though on the other
hand I wouldn't predict that sex inevitably conflicts with meaning in
life.
since I believe only three kinds of people exist in the world, the natural person, spiritual person and the carnal great pretenders who are not total about anything and like to have it both ways.
That sounds like broad catagories ... How can you be so sure?
Sophie338
07-30-05, 08:36 AM
Hello Betsy :smile:
He's welcome to pursue a relationship with anyone he wants, he just isn't welcome to do it here or use this site as a dating forum.
Betsy
I Agree with you :smile:
I have been absent for a while, various problems really. However reading ebgb, I really feel like sort of uneasy about him. I will back you up here, I come to this forum for support, discussion and feindship. but every now and then that sense of threat appears, like some bloke posting about wanting a relationship with an intersex person.
I dont get all the "Oh it is because I feel right" stuff edgb comes out with, it is based on some notion of a physical state on edgb's part. I would have to ask ebgb wether he thinks all intersex people have the same personality or something?
He can go on all day about going with an intersex person "feeling right" but ultimately the logic is flawed.
The person he went out with made him "feel right" but we are not that person. We are all individuals.
You are right Betsy :smile:, edgb misses the point that we are all individual people.
Hugs
Sophie
melonaide
07-30-05, 02:47 PM
I just noticed that Absinthium...who only posted a handful of posts and is now gone...appears to live very very close to me.
As far as wanting to date someone who is IS...It could be just a more narrow physical prefference than, lets say, preffering men or preffering woman....of coarse that's not totally 'physical'''...i'm just generalizing. It would be easier to explain it as a pattern.....a known pattern, but I certainly wouldn't think it could cover all intersex people and I don't think it would neccessarily stay within the lines of being IS. For example.....I could say that I have a tendancy to be attracted to guys who have feminine qualities and realistically that may or may not include a guy who is IS but the potential is certainly there and more predominant, I think, than in just your average guy with average experiences. It may be more understandable to say that if I found out someone I was dating was IS, who would most likely identify as a male, that I certainly wouldn't object and it could possibly turn out better than other experiences I've had....well....I 'wouldn't have objected' before. Now I don't want to think about dating. Right now I don't think I want 'anyone' with 'any type of experiences at all' getting to me. I don't even want to think about it.
I haven't even read the first pages of this thread....because I'm lazy but it appears that this person has made themselves seem less than genuine in many ways...so although I can see how someone could draw a conclusion that they are attracted to any certain type of person from past experience....perhaps it doesn't apply here.....especially if everyone seems to have decided that something is not right about the whole issue with this person.
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