Hi I am new here.

[Emmas post]

Hello

I am new to your group. My name is Emma, and I am an Intersexed woman having struggled growing up in a small town.
I am looking for answers and some solid friends who I can bounce ideas and thoughts off of.
I have been a member of other groups of different realms of reality though this is my first group contact of my correct persuasion.
I really don't know what is expected of me and some advice would be helpful.
Thank you,
Emma

[MelissP]

Hello

I am new to your group. My name is Emma, and I am an Intersexed woman having struggled growing up in a small town.
I am looking for answers and some solid friends who I can bounce ideas and thoughts off of.
I have been a member of other groups of different realms of reality though this is my first group contact of my correct persuasion.
I really don't know what is expected of me and some advice would be helpful.
Thank you,
Emma

Ah greetings Emma. Fair lady, I do believe you've come to a good place :-)
Please have a seat ... and while I serve up some rooibos tea, tell us what
you've seen in faraway realms of reality. I'm not sure what's expected of
you, I hadn't really thought of compiling a list. Umm, let me think ...

Duty list for new members -
1.) ?
2.) ?

Oh, well :-) I'm Melissa, the harmless eccentric and sex-mutant, and it
appears I usually have plenty of time to chat. :partysmil

[Emmas post]

Hi Melissa

Thanks for your jubilant reply! I guess my main issue is that I know no one who is like me, intersexed. I don't really know exactly what you all go through and if it is similar to me. All I do know is my story and it is quite troubling. Doctors and parents making mistakes and being forced to live a life of lies. Being misinterpreted in a sex role that I should never have been in. Being cast out as a freak. Rejected by family who doesn't understand what has been hidden from them by my parents. Parents who can't face there mistake.
All in all I have not left myself down and out in life, I got really good pretending, found good people to be near who DO understand and know me to be well worth there time.
I am okay now and getting better all the time, just need to understand more of others and their life's story's.

Weeelll, that's a start...

Emma

[Betsy]

:sign16:

Welcome, Emma

Betsy

[Emmas post]

Thank you, Betsy.

Emma

[MelissP]

Hi Melissa

Thanks for your jubilant reply! I guess my main issue is that I know no one who is like me, intersexed. I don't really know exactly what you all go through and if it is similar to me.


Different people go through different things. Even then, two people with
much the same physical condition can have different natures and outlooks.
Individuality is preserved.


All I do know is my story and it is quite troubling. Doctors and parents making mistakes and being forced to live a life of lies. Being misinterpreted in a sex role that I should never have been in. Being cast out as a freak. Rejected by family who doesn't understand what has been hidden from them by my parents. Parents who can't face there mistake.


Lately it's occurred to me; after I showed my pelvic Mri report(s) to my
mother, that the wall of silence between us has opened partly. To guess
from the responses of my other relatives, things weren't quite a secret to
them, only to me, because they were conceding to my parent's wishes. In
fact, I've been given some hints concerning a near relative. But that would
be her story to tell, though she probably never will.


All in all I have not left myself down and out in life, I got really good pretending, found good people to be near who DO understand and know me to be well worth there time.


If you find that pretending works for you. I've discovered lately that I
was never good at it; people could feel a strangeness in my aura, before I
started finding out the truth myself.


I am okay now and getting better all the time, just need to understand more of others and their life's story's.

Weeelll, that's a start...


That seems like a good place to begin. And perhaps at some point, others
will be able to learn from yours.

[Emmas post]

I am sure if I am posting correctly, I will get it soon....I think.
I do have a lot of proof now, operation records as well, but I became estranged to my family years ago now and I don't feel a need to revisit this pain. I don't know if other family members actually knows, I think my mother and father would have kept it very quite. I do have a quote from my mother after I was born, it was said to my X partner, "that for the first 6 months after I was born I had very little contact with my mother from post traumatic stress after giving birth to me", she wouldn't touch me. I have a very early memory about bandages and urination sting. I think it was at 6 months I was operated on for the first time to elevate her stress, to pick a sex for me. However I am not sure. At eleven, after living as a boy the whole time, I started puberty, female puberty, and remember very well that operation, they "fixed" that abnormality too!!...but not completely. The body can hide things quite well if it wants too I guess as my current body condition can attest to.

Emma


Lately it's occurred to me; after I showed my pelvic Mri report(s) to my
mother, that the wall of silence between us has opened partly. To guess
from the responses of my other relatives, things weren't quite a secret to
them, only to me, because they were conceding to my parent's wishes. In
fact, I've been given some hints concerning a near relative. But that would
be her story to tell, though she probably never will.

[Emmas post]

Can someone please tell me how to post a quoted reply please?

Thank you,
Emma

[Betsy]

There are two ways to do it.

1. Copy and paste the part you want to quote into the reply box and then highlight it by holding down the left mouse button (if you are using a PC) and running the cursor over the words. Then, click on the the little symbol for quote--that's the one all the way to the right.

2. Copy what you want to quote and then click on the quote symbol. It will open a dialogue box for you to paste the words into.

Okay, there's actually 3 ways.

3. You can also click on the little quote button of the post you want to quote and it automatically quotes the entire post. You can then edit out the part you don't want to use. This method leaves the original posters name it as well.

HTH

Betsy

[Emmas post]

Well, not really sure what you mean? I am missing something.

Emma

1. Copy and paste the part you want to quote into the reply box and then highlight it by holding down the left mouse button (if you are using a PC) and running the cursor over the words. Then, click on the the little symbol for quote--that's the one all the way to the right.

2. Copy what you want to quote and then click on the quote symbol. It will open a dialogue box for you to paste the words into.

Okay, there's actually 3 ways.

3. You can also click on the little quote button of the post you want to quote and it automatically quotes the entire post. You can then edit out the part you don't want to use. This method leaves the original posters name it as well.

HTH

Betsy[/QUOTE]

[Emmas post]

Hi Betsy
I am still missing something in what you are saying, Sorry.

Emma

[Betsy]

Maybe someone else can explain it otherwise, but it's also okay to simply try to do it here following the steps I outlined. You won't break anything, I promise :computer:

betsy

[Jolinn]

Hello & Welcome Emmas post & Jessica :wavey:

[MelissP]

I am sure if I am posting correctly, I will get it soon....I think.
I do have a lot of proof now, operation records as well, but I became estranged to my family years ago now and I don't feel a need to revisit this pain.


As they say, results may vary. I've found a sense of emotional healing
which I very needed. But I was only half-estranged to begin with,


I have a very early memory about bandages and urination sting. I think it was at 6 months I was operated on for the first time to elevate her stress, to pick a sex for me. However I am not sure.


It seems like most everyone has early memories except me (mock pout)
I can't remember a single blessed thing before I was 4yo and already at
a university building in Baltimore. If they did operate, maybe they used
too much anesthesia and left me with amnesia :broken_he


At eleven, after living as a boy the whole time, I started puberty, female puberty, and remember very well that operation, they "fixed" that abnormality too!!...but not completely. The body can hide things quite well if it wants too I guess as my current body condition can attest to.

Emma


A hysterectomy? They must have told an amazing lie, to do that without
your figuring out the truth.

I didn't have much of any puberty till I was past 30,
I wonder if that makes me fortunate, to be beyond my parent's control
when my reproductive system powered up. Though I'm only sure yet of
half of what's in there.

See, similar inital conditions, but different lives. I once read the account
of someone named Kira D Treia, who experienced much the same as you
have. She used to be active online; so many people have come and gone,
their traces fade as the years go by :-) Now she had a good greek name,
which translated to "Mrs 3" :-) Sorry, I'm being terrible ...

[MelissP]

Can someone please tell me how to post a quoted reply please?

Thank you,
Emma

The easiest way is the "quote" icon located at the bottom right of each post
It quotes everything, but you're allowed to trim out the parts you don't want
quoted. When you're editing your reply, everything between the [QUOTE=
and the [/QUOTE, will be shown as quoted.

Since you've already figured out how to include some quoted text at the
end of your posts; if you'd like it to be shown in a quotation box, you can
just add a [QUOTE=theirname at it's beginning and a [/QUOTE at it's end.
This also works for splitting one quote up into mini quotes, like I often do.
Remember to put an end bracket after both of those, I had to omit it here
so that I could type it without you seeing it as a quotation.

Enjoy :-)

[Peter]

Hello & Welcome Emmas post & Jessica :wavey:

Great, now I get to see if the quotes work. I totally agree with Jolinn's sentiments.

We all have different experiences of being intersex. Although, I personally don't have any early memories before three years old, it has been very controversial in the past went one member maintained that another member could not possibly have a memory before four years old. I discussed this, in person, with the member whose credibility was questioned, and I believe that she did remember an important event from about three years old.

I think that intersex stories should unfold without too much editorial comment. For instance, a couple of people have privately mentioned to me that I could not have been born with a perineum pseudo-vagina without severe hypospadias. I am somewhat offended, and privately think that they are not very well educated about the varieties of 5ard and related conditions. So, I think that there is often a lack of education about intersex conditions involved when people are surprised by the personal narratives of intersex people. It is fine to gently point out contradictions, as Miriam sometimes does, but it is best to get the "truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth" before making a judgment.

Peter

[Emmas post]

Maybe someone else can explain it otherwise, but it's also okay to simply try to do it here following the steps I outlined. You won't break anything, I promise :computer: ]

betsy

Thanks Betsy,
Emma

[Emmas post]

Thanks Betsy,]
Emma


Hey I did it!!! Yahhhh! Thanks girls!!

Emma

[Emmas post]

Great, now I get to see if the quotes work. I totally agree with Jolinn's sentiments.

[We all have different experiences of being intersex. Although, I personally don't have any early memories before three years old, it has been very controversial in the past went one member maintained that another member could not possibly have a memory before four years old.] I discussed this, in person, with the member whose credibility was questioned, and I believe that she did remember an important event from about three years old.

I think that intersex stories should unfold without too much editorial comment. For instance, a couple of people have privately mentioned to me that I could not have been born with a perineum pseudo-vagina without severe hypospadias. I am somewhat offended, and privately think that they are not very well educated about the varieties of 5ard and related conditions. So, I think that there is often a lack of education about intersex conditions involved when people are surprised by the personal narratives of intersex people. It is fine to gently point out contradictions, as Miriam sometimes does, but it is best to get the "truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth" before making a judgment.

Peter

It is entirely possible that my early memory was not at 6 months, having a background in psychology, I am aware that early memories are some what jumbled and mixed into real physical and emotional realities. I can only say that I have a memory and my mind has located it at 6 months. But it could well be an event that was similar and for some reason I have connected them...who can tell, but my parents.

Thank you for your protecting thoughts,

Emma

[Emmas post]

[QUOTE=MelissP]As they say, results may vary. I've found a sense of emotional healing
which I very needed. But I was only half-estranged to begin with,



It seems like most everyone has early memories except me (mock pout)
I can't remember a single blessed thing before I was 4yo and already at
a university building in Baltimore. If they did operate, maybe they used
too much anesthesia and left me with amnesia :broken_he



A hysterectomy? They must have told an amazing lie, to do that without
your figuring out the truth.]

One of the reasons I have never spoken about this stuff is it feels so unreal. It is not normal and the few that know about me, some realized by physical evidence, as others question. But I know, my doctor knows, my chromosomes know, my very expensive body scans know and when looking at me, people have a very hard time deciding which sex I am. I get sired and mamed just the same. I don't even notice any more, a friend will tell me what happened and I say, huh? What I do hear is the children walking by, "was that a woman or a man Mommy"?, that is me!
Hysterectomy? well, that is unclear, it is not said this way in the reports. I remember at 11 that the following months, before surgery, of back and forth to the doctor for abdominal pain, breast soreness and head aches. It was finally decided that I undergo exploratory surgery. After words I asked my mother what it was and she replied that they had to test what they removed. I never got an answer. Following surgery I became very depressed and 6 months later ended up in a hospital for a 2 weeks evaluation. They blamed my depression on my parents!! I remember these days well and know why I was depressed, I was a girl and knew I had been destroyed.
I can not imagine why...but I speculate that what they removed was deformed and this is why it was taken, why else? can parents make them? I just don't know. Sounds like a fairy tail to tell my story.

Emma

[MelissP]

As they say, results may vary. I've found a sense of emotional healing which I very needed. But I was only half-estranged to begin with,

It seems like most everyone has early memories except me (mock pout)
I can't remember a single blessed thing before I was 4yo and already at
a university building in Baltimore. If they did operate, maybe they used
too much anesthesia and left me with amnesia :broken_he

A hysterectomy? They must have told an amazing lie, to do that without
your figuring out the truth.


One of the reasons I have never spoken about this stuff is it feels so unreal. It is not normal and the few that know about me, some realized by physical evidence, as others question. But I know, my doctor knows, my chromosomes know, my very expensive body scans know and when looking at me, people have a very hard time deciding which sex I am. I get sired and mamed just the same. I don't even notice any more, a friend will tell me what happened and I say, huh? What I do hear is the children walking by, "was that a woman or a man Mommy"?, that is me!


Oh, I believe you. It seems quite real and possible to me. Perhaps because
I've been through similarly strange experiences. Even if lightening strikes
only one person in a million, that millionth person will have something
to talk about.

I had an Mri in may. I've gotten 3 doctors coming up with 3 slightly
different explanations for how in heck those things got into my pelvis.
But the end result is much the same.

I remember not so long when I got the same ambiguous judgements from
the world. A little bit of HRT goes a long way when your body was designed
for it. Not often that I'm sir'd anymore. Common reactions being more
like "OMG she's freakin' *tall*". Which is true, and irreversible, so I let it
slide with grace :-)


Hysterectomy? well, that is unclear, it is not said this way in the reports. I remember at 11 that the following months, before surgery, of back and forth to the doctor for abdominal pain, breast soreness and head aches. It was finally decided that I undergo exploratory surgery. After words I asked my mother what it was and she replied that they had to test what they removed. I never got an answer.


I'm familiar with those symptoms; maybe unfortunately, or maybe t'was good because it led me towards the truth.


Following surgery I became very depressed and 6 months later ended up in a hospital for a 2 weeks evaluation. They blamed my depression on my parents!! I remember these days well and know why I was depressed, I was a girl and knew I had been destroyed.


They say most people do have instinctual self-knowledge. And if your
pituitary was already gearing up for cycles, you would certainly have
felt the loss of your pre-disposed hormones. That's worth a lot of blues
right there.


I can not imagine why...but I speculate that what they removed was deformed and this is why it was taken, why else? can parents make them? I just don't know. Sounds like a fairy tail to tell my story.


I could speculate on less gracious motives they might have had. Like
wanting to make sure their secret stayed buried forever. Why fess up
to you about what they'd already done, when a little bit more might
make it all disappear?

It doesn't sound so much like a faerie tale to me, or maybe as one of
those dark retellings.

[Emmas post]

Oh, I believe you. It seems quite real and possible to me. Perhaps because
I've been through similarly strange experiences. Even if lightening strikes
only one person in a million, that millionth person will have something
to talk about.

I had an Mri in may. I've gotten 3 doctors coming up with 3 slightly
different explanations for how in heck those things got into my pelvis.
But the end result is much the same.




They say most people do have instinctual self-knowledge. And if your
pituitary was already gearing up for cycles, you would certainly have
felt the loss of your pre-disposed hormones. That's worth a lot of blues
right there.]



[I could speculate on less gracious motives they might have had. Like
wanting to make sure their secret stayed buried forever. Why fess up
to you about what they'd already done, when a little bit more might
make it all disappear?]

It doesn't sound so much like a faerie tale to me, or maybe as one of
those dark retellings.

Actually I am small, slight build, little facial hair which was removed in a session or two, and have never been on hormones. They did not remove both ovaries, they removed an ovatestie, if that is how to spell it, my surgery last year proved that. They also did something's inside but what they did within my pelvis is speculative, it is just to messed up in there to see clearly on an MRI. There is what looks to be another ovary, and it must be because my body produces estrogen now after many years of gorwning on and off and over the years I have developed nicely. It is squished and looked to be deformed.



Well, I was quite sure what sex I was when 11 and after the surgery, that was no reach for me. But this was something I knew had to be hidden because every one in my family, and then in school, called me "he".
A very sorry state of affairs.

Emma

[miriam]

It is entirely possible that my early memory was not at 6 months, having a background in psychology, I am aware that early memories are some what jumbled and mixed into real physical and emotional realities. I can only say that I have a memory and my mind has located it at 6 months. But it could well be an event that was similar and for some reason I have connected them...who can tell, but my parents.

I can recommend this article (PDF - 108 K):

http://bernard.pitzer.edu/~dmoore/psych199s03articles/EacottMemory.pdf

and this one:

http://pages.slc.edu/~ebj/IM_97/Lecture6/L6.html


Groeten, Miriam

[Emmas post]

I can recommend this article (PDF - 108 K):

http://bernard.pitzer.edu/~dmoore/psych199s03articles/EacottMemory.pdf

and this one:

http://pages.slc.edu/~ebj/IM_97/Lecture6/L6.html


Groeten, Miriam


Hi Miriam

Thank you, those articles they were interesting to read.

I am not so sure we forget or remember early memories, in the understood extent of what we call "remember". I think we are thought how it interpret "memory" over time. We are born with a certain criteria which is raw and primal to a certain extent. So the early memories, that we can describe, I believe come from glimpses of early understanding of how to commutate these memories to our newly developing minds and then out to the public. But like most children learning new things it takes time to get it right, i.e. jumbled memories of time periods, associations to the correct experience and so on. In the mean time I think memories are shaped into our being much more at pre-birth and birth into our personalities, that our early memories become part of us and that strong impact events become fissures or cracks in our growth, these fissures can be seen as something of value, or spun into memories, or feelings, of some event. Maybe this fissure becomes a trigger and when some event of similar value happens we associate the 2 events. But this is where I believe the early childhood "jumble" happens and an event can be misconstrued or even misplaced.
We are an emotional lot and even in life our adult memories are often not accurate. We have so many events every day that take us to places we want to be and not. We except and we reject. We shape our lives to suit our limits of what we perceive as safe. We grow and learn and fail until the day we pass our knowledge on.

Emma

[MelissP]

I can recommend this article (PDF - 108 K):

http://bernard.pitzer.edu/~dmoore/psych199s03articles/EacottMemory.pdf

and this one:

http://pages.slc.edu/~ebj/IM_97/Lecture6/L6.html


Groeten, Miriam

Thank you Miriam, those were very good articles