View Full Version : Gynecomastia / XXY
Have been though ten years of military service, having a condition called Gynecomastia, also an XXY male, was teased a few times in the Army but was not a major problem, the major problem is when people relate us to being homosexual or in the same catagory as gays when many of us simply have a chromosome imbalance or scrambled eggs but no confusion about who we are, seems that others have the problem and plague us with their ignorance. I was never gay, knowing several other folks with more radical physical issues who were never gay either, yet we get that lable hung on us which is something just as cruel as the ignorance in society that prevails to this day.
IS folks I have been acquainted with had no doubt about the gender issue, they knew even if others didn't, especially some doctors who mutilate children before giving that child the choice according to the identity the child relates to rather than what is assigned to them, some mistakes can't be undone if given the wrong gender assignment at birth or soon after, finding many who would not have things any other way and choosing to keep the body God gave them unless there were medical issues involving health, but personally find it neat to be unique and getting past what others would seek to transform us into to be something we never were.
http://www.hotkey.net.au/~marshalle/powell.htm
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http://vets.appliedphysics.swri.edu/loutplei.htm
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Lou
Hi Lou
A couple of things come to mind in your post.
From many people's point of view, denial of your sexual orientation is just one stage in a process of beginning to accept it. I fully believe that you're not gay - but your denials of it might make people believe that you're just not self-accepting yet.
It makes you a victim of homophobia as much as gay people are. The question is, what do you do about that? Be as anti-gay as possible, to "prove" that you're not, or do what you can, when you can, to improve people's understanding?
Secondly, I'm kind of conflicted about what your comments mean to people who are gay and intersex.
btw, I know the US is different, but I understood that the Australian army, like the Irish, UK and other European ones, doesn't discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation, and doesn't accept victimisation when it happens, either.
Morgan
Justs a quick response. Sometimes need to reverse things, as I know gay friends who do not like to be included among those who are not, people are individuals.
what I was bringing out is that Intersex is not a gay issue or a straight issue, it just is what it is, why I object to having some activists presenting things as if gay and intersex were the same thing or belonged in the same agenda when it is really a human issue.
I object to the ignorance of society for assuming that all intersexed or gay people are governed by the glands or lust, there are things in common but still each unique, why many are paranoid due their their own view of how the thinking has been conditioned by society and read too much into what people write or say and o thers just look for an opportunity to be offended in some way.
I feel blessed to have a close circle of friends from about every part of society you can imagine, each there for the other while recognizing certain differences that have nothing to do with character or friendships or lust, accepting the other as they are. just do not like to see something that is not a gay issue turned into one, one may sympathize with the other just as non IS folks sympathize with those who are intersexed and the struggles faced that have to do with the attitudes of other people that has imposed a false sense of shame upon so many just as it has the American Indian who have had this same ugly sense of shame put on them just for being who they are, but times are changing.
What I would like to see changed in the gay agenda is to make things unique to gay IS people who would rightly be included rather than all IS people spoken of in the same breath which would give the impression that all IS people are gay, many of us are not who sympathize with those who are, seeing things as a human issue rather than a gender issue.
Might add that the toughest thing can be to be gut level honest and genuine, if we are talking about someone for a lifetime I would be very content with an IS person who understands at a deeper level that they are a women as a gal by the name of Casey relates, taking a lot of courage to go public in having fully developed male and female genitalia but still a lady, have cherised friends who are homosexual but would not care to have the same type of relationship or marriage that is meant for a lifetime, but they are friends for a lifetime, I respect and support them as they do me, but both understanding that one is homosexual and the other isn't and neither having a problem with that.
Hi Lou,
I understand what you are saying very clearly. It's one of the reasons I don't like to see an I being included with the LGBT acronym. We had a long discussion about this not long ago (see http://www.bodieslikeours.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1351&highlight=lgbti)
My issue is it perpetuates stereotypes and misunderstandings which has the unfortunate result of excluding many folks who are not queer and IS. Even worse, it further marginalizes those that are by giving them another label they may not want. In the queer community and as a queer activist, I identify first as a lesbian and then as someone who is also IS. My issues about how IS people are treated have little in common with identity and much more about shame, secrecy and lies. I'm concerned about surgery done on children without their consent more that I am about focusing on the very few people out there who choose to intersex as an identity (there aren't many in my experience) Let the identity activists deal with that--I just don't see a big demand for it.
However, I also feel that much of this issue also involves deep internalized homophobia that many folks with IS have, I'm not saying or implying that includes you or anyone else, but it is simply a general observation.
Heck, as a lesbian, I'd likely to take offense at being seen as heterosexual. I encounter it alot (I guess I don't look or act queer enough sometimes---it's gotten worse as I have grown long hair!) and my own anti-heterosexism will sometimes make my voice known with comments about assumptions that someone is heterosexual because they wear long hair. Sometimes I even have to point out that I have lots of heterosexual friends but I still like them regardless of who they sleep with (and in case that is misunderstood, it was sarcasm directed at those who claim to have queer friends but making excuses why they still think some people shouldn't have equal rights).
Betsy
Thanks Betsy, really enjoyed reading the different comments, did not bookmark the link to the thread and lost it so started another one, being a subject that needs confronting in wanting to keep our own identity rather than being placed in a mold that others have manufactured and stuffed into which doesn't seem much different than a gender assignment given to some who had no say so about it.
From many people's point of view, denial of your sexual orientation is just one stage in a process of beginning to accept it. I fully believe that you're not gay - but your denials of it might make people believe that you're just not self-accepting yet.
The same logic obviously doesn't apply the other way round. Never met gay people being in denial about their heterosexuality.
LOL, no. But being heterosexual is the norm, and you only have to go through a process of self-discovery when you're different to the norm.
I'm personally kind of astonished when I'm taken for heterosexual. It's a very long time since I came to terms with that difference.
I clearly have current issues with identity as well, though. Thinking about it today, much of that has come up because of the way my last relationship ended, but it's also a matter that both my endocrinologist and counsellor have raised... it's an issue for others, whether I'm comfortable in myself or not.
M
I was a senior citizen before learning that I am an XXY male, being one of the very few who was able to produce a child, something like one percent out of a hundred, but what had me in a panic for several years was an unrelated condition of Gynecomastia that had to do with imbalanced hormones, could have even breast fed my daughter, seeing that many suffer from psychological damage resulting from peer pressures as those who are IS are forced into the basement for fear of discovery, especially those I know with fully developed male and female genitalia, but identity to me is very simple and basic, only three catagories of people on the planet, the natural person, spiritual person and the carnal Christian, the latter being the most miserable because of getting whacked from both extreems in not being total about anything.
All of humanity has to deal with lust and that is where many misunderstand the homosexual, thinking all are governed by the glands, seeing few who are willing to do some self examination before lookng anywhere else, much less publish a personal diary as I did some years ago of every thought, word and deed, finding many who needed some shock treatment, but many offended when it is all reduced to where the rubber meets the road, also finding that change is a process rather than a project, accepting me as me took a lot of years, today having an attitude that if folks can't handle that then they can kiss a certain body part, why I take some pride in having been refered to as God's Wild Ass who became humble after He sat on it.
MelissP
07-14-05, 12:19 PM
I was a senior citizen before learning that I am an XXY male, being one of the very few who was able to produce a child, something like one percent out of a hundred,
That's a very interesting subject, Lou. I was just going through the
permutations on a notepad, and it seems like odds for the various
outcomes were;;
XX - 2/6 , XXX - 1/6
XY - 1/6 , XXY - 2/6
Not counting the possibilities of picking up 2 x's from the mother's
side, or of the father's chromosones going through undivided, which
would be in a sense a repeat of the the original XXY process.
I hope the question isn't too nosey, and I ask your pardon if it is;
umm, are your children healthy and well?
That's a very interesting subject, Lou. I was just going through the permutations on a notepad, and it seems like odds for the various outcomes were;;
XX - 2/6 , XXX - 1/6
XY - 1/6 , XXY - 2/6
Not counting the possibilities of picking up 2 x's from the mother's
side, or of the father's chromosones going through undivided, which
would be in a sense a repeat of the the original XXY process.
I hope the question isn't too nosey, and I ask your pardon if it is;
umm, are your children healthy and well?
My daughter was always very healthy, brother seems to be the one who had three girls who were often sick due to an immune system that was low.
Father seems to be the one with the scrambled eggs in having a number of birth defects on his side of the family, all relatives very healthy on mom's side.
Originally Posted by Lou
I was a senior citizen before learning that I am an XXY male, being one of the very few who was able to produce a child, something like one percent out of a hundred,
Ironically, there is a current trend to harvest sperm from young teens with Klinefelters (I guess right before puberty or at puberty there is still a viable sperm count) and store it for later use when the child grows up because the odds of being fertile then are so low.
Betsy
I was just going through the permutations on a notepad, and it seems like odds for the various
outcomes were;;
The children of people with XXY are XY or XX, (although in the lab it's possible for sperm with XXY to go through meiosis)
Greetings Lou
I was a senior citizen before learning that I am an XXY male, being one of the very few who was able to produce a child, something like one percent out of a hundred
I was wondering if you were perhaps xxy mosaic or,failing that,perhaps you had a testicular biopsy ?
http://47xxy.org/Gloss/infertility.htm
Originally Posted by Betsy
Ironically, there is a current trend to harvest sperm from young teens with Klinefelters (I guess right before puberty or at puberty there is still a viable sperm count) and store it for later use when the child grows up because the odds of being fertile then are so low
The times certainly are a changing,it seems gone are the days when the majority of xxy's were diagnosed while trying to conceive children or due to associated medical conditions and in with the new era of diagnoses.What a find for those that find out early in life via amnio tests.
http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/89/5/2263
My interpetation of this is,before the boys entered puberty they had relatively
normal TYPES of sperm (it doesn't mention quantities).
This changed when they entered puberty and their
testicles grew in size. Sperm practically vanished.
They also found that the phenomenon was NOT related to
hormones.
Perhaps there's a future after all
Canice.
Yeah, I read about it on a listserv of peds endos. It seemed like such a no-brainer to me, but as you point out, the days of in-utero diagnosis are here. Sadly, that technique is also used for selection purposes.
Greetings Lou
I was wondering if you were perhaps xxy mosaic or,failing that,perhaps you had a testicular biopsy ?
http://47xxy.org/Gloss/infertility.htm
Very possible, I did not persue things beyond what was related by the family doctor who only said I was of the XXY type, could well be variations of XXY.
I was curious about my medical history as it pertained to Gynecomastia, but also alarmed when as a kid still recall that something pertaining to another condition (unspecified at the time) was said normally happens to girls, that was a blow to the ego and never clearified, but assume had to do with what has been learned years later, just did not go into great detail about the varieties of XXY, but as I recall the skin tests were from the face.
Went though a mid life crisis with all the hot flashes and the whole thing, guess that is not common for males either but got past all that, just took a good while.
Hi Lou
I seem to recall you and I exchanging an email or two,a number of years back,at a time when I was first d'xed,may I say you are an inspiration not just to xxy's but indeed to mankind. :beer:
You are the first person that comes to mind,whenever I read the intro' to http://www.globalwebsol.com/xxy/ I wonder why that is :)
but also alarmed when as a kid still recall that something pertaining to another condition (unspecified at the time) was said normally happens to girls
Chromsomes sure are amazing eh,I can relate.
but as I recall the skin tests were from the face.
It would seem as though the test you had done was a buccal smear
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003414.htm there are other options that will give a more accurate result http://47xxy.org/Gloss/Karyotype.htm but I guess from what I'm reading,I can see that you are content just knowing that you are that 'xtra' little bit different and thats all that matters at the end of the day.
Be well Lou
Canice.
Doesn't matter at all how the eggs are scrambled today, not going to bother to get the more accurate testing as it woudln't accomplish anything other than to satisfy curiosity.
Just good to arrive at some place in life to care about folks and not need a reason.
Maybe standing out a little more in having the same birthday of August 17th, but was born in 1940 and hope to settle in Texas on the daughter's ranch after responsibilities here are finished in taking care of elderly folks in their late 80's.
Also in seeing that you are in Australia you may have read or heard the radio interview I had with Mike Carlton at 2UE Drivetime.
http://www.hotkey.net.au/~marshalle/powell.htm Wasn't nervous until the announcer told me that it was a live broadcast going out to a couple of million people, turned me into instant wimp.
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