sex and gender considerations

[CC]

I only wish these findings had been known to me when I was diagnosed,it would saved me from being forcefully placed in a box where I did not belong.

CC


Infrequently discussed in medical descriptions of KS are individuals’ concerns with gender expressions and feelings. An unknown percentage of persons who have KS experience androgynous or feminine feelings that can develop at an early age [50]. Some people who have KS consider themselves to be transgendered [50], others considered themselves to be intersexed [691, and others considered themselves to be transsexual.
One of the most noted persons who transitioned gender is Carolyn Cossey,
a “James Bond girl.” She was raised as a boy, but changed to live as a girl at
a young age, and became a famous model; her karyotype was found to be
XXXY

http://www.hawaii.edu/PCSS/online_artcls/intersex/AndrogenInsensitivity.htm

[Priestess]

I only wish these findings had been known to me when I was diagnosed,it would saved me from being forcefully placed in a box where I did not belong.

CC

http://www.hawaii.edu/PCSS/online_artcls/intersex/AndrogenInsensitivity.htm


Hello Canice,
Do you think that the reported effect on gender expression is the direct result of additional X chromosones? or indirectly linked by unusual hormonal status? Also, is Ms Cossey's karyotype known to have resulted in any unusual anatomical development? or are the physical effects of x3y still limited to the hormonal?

[CC]

Hi Priestess

Do you think that the reported effect on gender expression is the direct result of additional X chromosones? or indirectly linked by unusual hormonal status


A bit of both really,with perhaps a little more emphasis on the hormonal part.Apparently our body clocks have been set in motion from the day we are born and without intervention (testosterone) we are pre-dispositioned to develope along female lines ie: rounded shoulders,pear shaped,no adams apple and some (not all) will develope breasts.

Also, is Ms Cossey's karyotype known to have resulted in any unusual anatomical development? or are the physical effects of x3y still limited to the hormonal?

Apparently,the greater the number of x's,the more pronounced the effects

C

[Priestess]

Hi Priestess

A bit of both really,with perhaps a little more emphasis on the hormonal part.Apparently our body clocks have been set in motion from the day we are born and without intervention (testosterone) we are pre-dispositioned to develope along female lines ie: rounded shoulders,pear shaped,no adams apple and some (not all) will develope breasts.

Apparently,the greater the number of x's,the more pronounced the effects

C

That would describe the path of physical development which the body might follow. In your sight, do feelings and mindset follow after these? What I mean is, for example breasts may feel quite natural but does having them by itself inspire feminine feelings? I am a little curious, for while I don't have xxy, the tests I've had so far indicate my having had a very confused endocrine system. And when I occasionally recognize some part of my nature, it becomes a riddle trying to distinguish what is an essential part of myself from an unusual anatomy and chemistry and the events those things set in motion.

I guess what I was wondering about Ms Cossey, was whether the XXXy had mosaic'd into enough purely XX cell lines to give rise to female-only reproductive structures. Another practical curiousity :thinking:

[CC]

Hi Priestess

I guess what I was wondering about Ms Cossey, was whether the XXXy had mosaic'd into enough purely XX cell lines to give rise to female-only reproductive structures.

I can not personally answer your question but,a quick search with Google came up with the following.......
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caroline_Cossey
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0876302/bio

C

[Priestess]

Hi Priestess



I can not personally answer your question but,a quick search with Google came up with the following.......
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caroline_Cossey
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0876302/bio

C

Thank you for the link, though those articles had little to interest me personally. No interesting medical info, and I think really in her case x3y made her no different from any other transsexual model/etc. As a whole, I don't care what gender-motivated people do with their lives. The ones I've actually met have been demeaning and insulting.

[CC]

Not a great deal is known about 48xxxy except to say,it is part of the Klinefelter family and that the implications of extra x's (meaning more than two)is merely a pre-dispostion to 'suffer' a greater severity of the condition.

Also........if I may add,not a great deal is known about the benefits/consequences of someone with a chromosome anomaly(which contains a 'Y') who chooses estrogen over testosterone.I can speak only for myself and say"I have responded far better with estrogen than I ever did with testosterone and I have done so with the guidence of an endocrinologist.

So you see Pristess you are totally of the mark by comparing Caroline Cossey to "any other transexual" because she is not a transexual,although in your eyes (regardless of the chromosome count)she always will be.
We,meaning those of us with extra x chromosomes and recieving estrogen do so,not as a means of changing "gender" but,rather as a means of improving our quality of life,now what could be so wrong with that ?

Canice.





Thank you for the link, though those articles had little to interest me personally. No interesting medical info, and I think really in her case x3y made her no different from any other transsexual model/etc. As a whole, I don't care what gender-motivated people do with their lives. The ones I've actually met have been demeaning and insulting.

[Priestess]

G'day Canice,
I apologize for the unkind tone of my last post, I was rather irritable when I wrote it, which happens periodically. Hopefully I'll someday develop enough self-control to resist saying certain things during times like these.

If you happen to enjoy estrogen, I think by all means you should indulge. You seem to have a very realistic and responsible outlook; and in a world full of people who regularly destroy their selves with a endless menu of mind-altering substances, a little estrogen is probably the most wholesome chemical assistance around. Though there are quite a few 46xy trans-folks who also appreciate estrogen with as just as much enthusiasm, and then embrace feminized-brain theories so as to explain it all. I don't disapprove of their doing so.

I considered Ms Cossey a transsexual because when this subject came up, in all the info I was able to research, her life as she has lived it falls into that territory. Despite the likely hormonal effects of x3y, I wasn't able to find anything suggesting she started life with an ambiguous or non-male anatomy. And she apparently calls herself a transsexual, the unusual karotype only being mentioned as a footnote. She obviously knows herself better than I know her. As she wills, so mote it be. She's a transsexual.

One last point, towards my own defense. If I say I think someone is a transsexual and probably motivated by gender dysphorias, who says I'm dismissing them as "only a trans ..."? Whereas a lot of trans-folks seem to have the idea that being born with an intersexed condition would be a sort of holy grail to aspire to, I know my life has been alot sadder than it needed to be, and I don't feel so very special. My opinion is that certain people need to realize that our lives can suck just as bad as theirs, or not suck. Because people on both sides of the border have to make their own destiny as best they can.

You might ask, "why then do you not enjoy the trans folks?". To which all I can say is that other than being pushed into their company for a few years, we didn't have much in common. I wouldn't have cared, if they'd at least been pleasant about things. But no, they seemed to take special delight in openly laughing at me when I was physically hurting, and demeaning me for not having transgendered feelings. And dismissing me when I could have used some of the support that they felt entitled to, because I was somewhat intimidated by the herculean task that was expected of me, of creating a reasonably female social identity out of *nothing*. They earned my negative feelings, and I can never be free of my memories. The last I ever heard from them, they weren't expressing any remorse either.

But even then, there are many sorts of people in this world whom I have no interest in. It's not as though I'm singling out transsexuals.