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Hi,
I got here through ISNA. I'm a PAIS male and I was wondering if anyone knows about any support groups in the San Francisco Bay Area for people like me? So far I haven't found a single thing... :dunno:
Hi,
I got here through ISNA. I'm a PAIS male and I was wondering if anyone knows about any support groups in the San Francisco Bay Area for people like me? So far I haven't found a single thing... :dunno:
Hi WWW,
That's a good question. But as far as I know most of the AIS support groups are for women only. Even though I understand why many women in those groups don't want to change this, I think it is a shame that there are no AIS groups for men with PAIS.
In the Dutch group we have a discussion how we can offer support to men with PAIS. But that is a work in progress...
Of course you can find some really nice people here at BLO, but if you want AIS specific support you might want to contact AISpeople. That's the only support group for AIS and similar conditions that accept males (as far as I know). Unfortunately that group seems to be in hibernation at the moment. :-(
If you want to know more about AISPeople you can send an email to aispeople2-owner@<hidden>
Groeten, Miriam
Thanks, Miriam... I just e-mailed the group and I'll see what comes out of it. Otherwise I was thinking maybe I can ask (nicely) if other support groups will let me stop by although I am male.
. . . as far as I know most of the AIS support groups are for women only.
An AIS support group for WOMEN ONLY????? How can a support group be so exclusive and discriminatory when the ironic fact is that they are all XY in the first place???? I'm sorry, but that just doesn't sound right.
(Note: For those who may not have been here very long and don't know me, I am not IS, but rather I am trans. In my journeys I have found that many trans people have banded together, forming their own little clics based on how well they "pass" as women. Many of these same persons, of which should have a kindred spirit for other trans persons, have only contempt for me because I seek only the truth about my condition, a condition I do not claim to be pretty. I got tired of listening to other trans persons tell their self justifying lies and their rewriting their childhoods to align with something that fits within what they felt they needed to justify their transition. Thus, I came here, to BLO, because I believed that most persons here want ONLY the truth, no matter how hard of a pill that might be to swallow. But then to NOW learn that ANY support group, persons who should know ALL ABOUT DISCRIMINATION, should be discriminatory themselves, only leaves my head spinning in disbelief!!)
Meadow:pissed-2:
prince....ss?
12-10-06, 10:38 PM
Welcome to BLO.
We are a friendly group here and we support persons of all intersex conditions ( even if you happen to be a man) Ouch!!!! Sorry Miriam
I know how it feels to be left out. When I was born all they called me was male pseudo hermaphrodite. So some time during my life when I had my back to my true condition a group of people got together and made a decision. They decided that hermaphrodite was a nasty word. Yes true it is right up there with calling someone a nigger. So the CAH folks got together with the AIS folks and this syndrome got talking with that condition and so on and so forth. So being that I don’t fit into any of these elite specialty groups for one reason or another ( oops, I own a uterus so no AIS, 46xy sorry no CAH for you) I am not given the secret handshake or password into these groups. So they all took their conditions and left this hermaphrodite behind to fend for myself. Sad story but true I’m a minority in this intersexed world they created.
So if they won’t take you because you know what you are, you’r welcome to join my party. I won’t judge you because your body is different than mine and I will accept you as the person that you are. Perhaps we will be able to help each other because we are both human beings in similar but different boats.
Welcome to BLO
An AIS support group for WOMEN ONLY????? How can a support group be so exclusive and discriminatory when the ironic fact is that they are all XY in the first place???? I'm sorry, but that just doesn't sound right.
(Note: For those who may not have been here very long and don't know me, I am not IS, but rather I am trans.
Sorry meadow, I don't want to offend you but I think that there is a reason why you can't understand why there are AIS support groups for women only: you don't have AIS. I've already said that the Dutch group is trying to find ways to offer support to men with PAIS. That isn't easy because men with PAIS have different needs than women with PAIS. This is also true for people with a partial form of the other XY intersex conditions. What's the use of discussing dilatation or having a dry vagina with a man with PAIS? What's the use of discussing the problems of having a tiny penis with a woman with PAIS?
When the AIS support groups started, it was common use to raise people with the partial forms of those conditions as girls. And the people who were raised as boys were probably never told about their condition.
Another thing that you might take in account: people with CAIS don't respond to androgens. You can give them androgens till it comes out of their ears, but you'll never be able to turn them into males. CAIS if far more common than PAIS.
Is it possible that you have no idea what people do in an AIS support group? I know that some people don't want to hear this, but in the AIS support group meetings I've attended so far, the main topics are NOT related to having XY chromosomes. Do I really have to explain to you, meadow, that the chromosomes don't define your sex?
Your reply makes it clear that you have no idea what it means to have AIS. And I don't ask you to understand. I'm the first to admit that I can't understand why transsexual people are jumping through hoops to have their body changed. But I do my best to respect you. Please respect us, even if you can't understand those silly girls with AIS.
Groeten, Miriam
Sunshine1
12-11-06, 10:38 AM
Hi Princess,
I read your post and I do get the concept of it but wanted to add that CAH happens in people that are XX or XY.
It's an adrenal gland metabolic endocrine condition where those that have it lack the ability to make partial or all cortisone and thus adrogens go unsupressed which then causes short statue virilism in females and excessive virilism in males that go untrreated - plus cause percoucious puberty and adrenal crisis that one may die from. It's been stated that male babies that from SIDS actually may of had CAH and died from adrenal crisis.
The amount of female chromosone babies with the what the heck are those external genitals are a small portion of those with CAH over all. i wasn't blessed to be born with an enlarged clitoris that my parents never would have had altered and how Besty devoted time to ask others why they are doing that to their children but I was born a Prader five or back in the day (70's) female -pseudo hermaphrodite secondary to Congenital Adrenal Hyperplsia aka the fucked up adrenal gland w/ no testes and only female sex organs but this funky what the hell is it external organ. They were disapointed that I wasn't a true hermaprodite in the medical records it was CAH....yeah we know what to do with that adreanl condition.
But, like you I have no problem with the word hermaphrodite, true 0r pseudo hermaphrodite either but don't really get intersex or the errors of sexual differentation what ever the people that matter are spouting. My concern is that people actually understand that at times don't feel well from CAH and how they medically treat it. My concern is how the adrenal gland is doing with the rest of my body at this age
Some people like closed of groups and others don't but that is the nature of each condition. I learned a lot from men with CAH and they were thoughtful and wise but others - men and women just might not be comfortable talking with each other. I've also learned from those with other conditions ....any condition but two people with CAH? it's just things they understand even though they might not come fro mthe same walk of life. With CAH? we finnish each others sentences and it's like yeah click. The same might be said for cancer which I am a two year survivor of and I was at a pub and got talking with these women that were cancer survivors for 10 years ..these two ladies ? we clicked and understood whereas say a nurse thats never had cancer would really,really get it. And then the thyroid thing? which I have as well lol at me but thyroid people are like energy connecting.
I look at other conditions and understand but it only to a point ..AIS? i wish for that condition becuase they are tall and beautiful and of couse there is so much more that that.
WWW,
If you don't find a group then what about starting your own ? but also glad that you found this board.
Priestess
12-11-06, 11:06 AM
A few years back, which is a long time ago on the net, I was on a mailing list where the moderator had CAIS. Apparently she had a proper girl's upbringing and female legal identity. But in the present, her recreational hours were spent in a sort of dragking/stonebutch personae. Which raises the question in my mind of whether the purity of her medical pedigree would be enough to allow the AIS to support her? or if she would she be shunned as "a man" ?
I can appreciate the predicament that the AIS community must see itself in. If they were ever found lending their support to partials and/or transsexuals who happen to medically have AIS, their social/legal status as women might evaporate before their very eyes. And certainly they don't have gender issues, so why should they sacrifice everything for others who are too flawed to be saveable? Their community must remain pure in order to assist anyone at all. And why should some innocent teenage girl with CAIS have to lend support to some pais man who's probably crazy and has identity issues? The lifeboat wasn't intended to hold everyone ... :rolleyes2
The only objection I have is that groups like the AISSG pretend to be supportive of a whole list of "associated conditions" which aren't AIS but mostly seem to involve underviralization and female reproductive systems. They even have themselves listed (online) as support for those conditions. Yet that's a lie. If you try to contact them about these associated conditions, they tell you to go away. But because the unknowing masses refer you to them for support, this takes away our chance to find any particular group.
And I'm sure the same goes for "men" with pais. The whole world telling them to go to AIS groups that have monopolized "support" yet won't have them.
Princess, you and me seem to have been born with much the same anatomy. Except that my ovulations suck and my natural produced hormones are destroying me. And I bet there are many more in the world in our situation, all we have to do is ignore the established non-support groups and find each other. Why do we need the AIS groups? they are nothing to us. Disregard Miriam's claims of how you (or I) don't understand the AIS, it's just as clear that they are either incapable or unwilling of understanding our experiences. Dna tests that (correctly or incorrectly) show us with a little bit of y-ness, those don't make us birds of their feather. The dna isn't nearly as important as the anatomical structures it causes to develop, and the AIS'ers aren't the same. How could they know anything? They need their state of mind.
Just my inflammatory 2 cents worth. But most of the internet already hates me anyways.
this might help keep the forums busy :redface:
Melissa S.
(does the S stand for Stribling? mmm, probably not)
Thanks everyone for your comments. Yesterday I followed some leads and found a yahoogroup that seems to be semi-active and I did some investigating on the ISNA website.
This debate about male/female support groups interests me... I guess I can see why males would not necessarily be welcome in most groups. It kind of leads me to blindly speculate about why there's no groups for AIS males out there. Is it because there are statistically fewer of us? Because more of us are "in the closet"?
In my own case, I think I did have my back turned on my condition for a long time. For many years I was told that I was born a male and the surgery and hormonal treatment was to make me more like what I was "supposed to be." So I just didn't think about it for a long time. I guess I couldn't really complain, since I can sympathize with my parents somewhat and besides, the health complications associated with my case are relatively few compared to some of my cousins and relatives with AIS.
When I turned 21 I had a full disclosure session with the endocrinologist who was in charge of my case since childhood. It was then that I started to find it difficult to ignore my PAIS, especially since doubts were raised about whether or not I could produce sperm-- I'd always wanted to have kids and this felt like a big blow to me.
After I got back to school last December I started sliding big-time in my work. I didn't graduate on time and am currently still slogging away at my degree. My therapist thinks these two areas of my life are connected: that I put work off to keep my mind occupied so I don't have to worry about these gender identity and sexual issues floating up there in the ether. The more I think about it, the more I'm inclined to agree. My parents told me to keep my condition under wraps for so long, who knows what it was doing to me on the inside? I'd like to be more honest about myself.
Anyway, that's me in a nutshell. Thanks for listening, I guess I gotta keep moving... :)
Hi WWW,
Welcome to Bodies Like Ours. While I do not know of support group activities in the SF Bay Area, there are some things happening around general intersex issues that you might be interested in. Send me a PM, and I can let you know more about upcoming events.
Peter
fraulein_Maria
12-12-06, 01:56 AM
[QUOTE=Meadow;12374]An AIS support group for WOMEN ONLY?????
But then to NOW learn that ANY support group, persons who should know ALL ABOUT DISCRIMINATION, should be discriminatory themselves, only leaves my head spinning in disbelief!!)
>>> i'm sorry that your angry Meadow, but perhaps of you thought about it from a 13 year old girl's point of view (the main denizens of AIS support groups) you might grasp it.....
"Mommy! :( Mommy! :(
what's a 50 year old man doing in my locker room?
Mommy, can you please make him leave?
i'm trying to talk to my girlfriends, and he keeps popping in, trying to tell us he's just like me!
Mommy, he scares me :( please make him go away :( "
Would you really want your teen-age daughter, whose already been through so much, to have to cope with this?
My heart breaks for these KIDS...for Godde's sake Meadow, there just KIDS!
Let them retain a little innocence, please?
They've been robbed of sooo much, and you would want them robbed of more?
prince....ss?
12-12-06, 06:15 AM
Fraulin Maria,
Bull shit!!! These support groups are a contact point and an organization. A place of focus so that people that need support can find it.
I don’t have a problem if you want to have a meeting with just young girls with AIS but to say to someone sorry you identify as a man so go fuck yourself is wrong. AISSG should have a place for the men that have AIS, a common but separate place.
BLO can support many intersex conditions, why can’t they support one of their own!!!
@<hidden> fraulein_Maria: Actually, the girls are not 13 yo. The girls on the front page of the Dutch AISSG website are between 15 and 20 years old:
http://www.aisnederland.nl/pictures/_DSC8525_600zw.jpg
Having XY-chromosomes is probably the least of their problems. BTW, all the girls in the pic have XY-chromosomes. But that doesn't mean they have AIS.
@<hidden> prince....ss?: first, there is not a single "AISSG". There are several support groups that offer support to people with AIS and similar conditions and each group has its own policy regarding to men with PAIS. Second, where did you read or hear that any AISSG says that men with PAIS or MAIS have to 'fuck themselves'? I know that there have been several attempts to facilitate support groups and special meetings for men with PAIS / MAIS or any other similar condition. But you can't expect the women who do all the work in the AIS groups to do that for the men. They have to do it themselves and if they don't do it, they probably don't need the same kind support as the women.
If you were talking/writing like you are doing in this thread I, think that the reason you were turned down by a AIS support group has nothing to do with your condition. I try to help anyone -male, female or anything in between - who is looking for support. But when people start to shout and yell, I probably will ask them to fuck themselves instead of fucking ME off.
Groeten, Miriam
Priestess
12-12-06, 11:16 AM
Miriam, how do you know that Princess was loudly demanding entrance to an AIS support group? If you'd ever seen her, you would know that she herself is not a man. She looked more female than Cheryl Chase.
I know that I quietly and politely contacted them simply asking questions about one of the associated conditions their web page implies support for, and was still pushed away. I understand the AIS'ers not understanding non-insensitive folks who might happen to have a uterus and sometimes ovaries yet still set off a y-detector. But if it's AIS only, why not say it? And why support certain selected people who clearly are not AIS?
Dana Gold
12-12-06, 11:53 AM
I think it is a shame that there are no AIS groups for men with PAIS.
For Mr. WWW:
Not quite true, although you may have to ask these folks about USA "connections"...at least you won't feel so "alone" as a PAIS man....there are others in the "same boat", so to speak:
http://home.vicnet.net.au/~aissg/AIS_Men.htm
Good luck, don't give up....and don't let the bickering here discourage you .....
DG
For Mr. WWW:
Not quite true, although you may have to ask these folks about USA "connections"...at least you won't feel so "alone" as a PAIS man....there are others in the "same boat", so to speak:
http://home.vicnet.net.au/~aissg/AIS_Men.htm
Good luck, don't give up....and don't let the bickering here discourage you .....
DG
That's true Dana, but Australia isn't exactly in the SF area... ;) AISPeople and especially Tony was/is closely related to the AISSGA. I still think that AISPeople is the right group if WWW wants to get in touch with other guys in the US.
Groeten, Miriam
PS good to hear from you again!
Dana Gold
12-12-06, 12:41 PM
You're probably right, Miriam.....my response was just another manifestation of my "Florence Nightingale" syndrome....having been a nurse in the "distant past" , I just wanted to help....sometimes I make an ass out of myself in the process.......:>/
DG
You're probably right, Miriam.....my response was just another manifestation of my "Florence Nightingale" syndrome....having been a nurse in the "distant past" , I just wanted to help....sometimes I make an ass out of myself in the process.......:>/
DG
If that's necessary to make you post again... hihi... ;)
Groeten, Miriam
Dana Gold
12-12-06, 02:32 PM
If that's necessary to make you post again.
LOL....:biggrin: yes, well.....I've always "entered" with a "flourish" :rolleye11 , I'd say
Glad to post again :bounce: ...after several weeks of absence :confused6
PS: Hello to everybody in BLO Land :wavey:
Dana
" A little bit is always better than nothing "
Miriam, how do you know that Princess was loudly demanding entrance to an AIS support group? If you'd ever seen her, you would know that she herself is not a man. She looked more female than Cheryl Chase.
I know that I quietly and politely contacted them simply asking questions about one of the associated conditions their web page implies support for, and was still pushed away. I understand the AIS'ers not understanding non-insensitive folks who might happen to have a uterus and sometimes ovaries yet still set off a y-detector. But if it's AIS only, why not say it? And why support certain selected people who clearly are not AIS?
Priestess, the first word of the line you are referring to is "If". That being said you hit the nail on its head: it is not important how a person looks like, as long as this person can relate to the stories of the other women, someone may fit perfectly in an AIS support group. I've attended meetings in the Netherlands, France, the UK, the USA and Israel. In all those countries there are members who are not the 'beautiful & tall' women that some people see as the stereotype AIS-girl. Unlike common believe many women with AIS are plane janes and not stunning photo models. It's also not true that only women with AIS can become a member of an AIS support group. I know many women in the groups I just mentioned who have another condition like 17BHSD, 5ARD, Sweyer, Leydig Cell Hypoplasia etc. And it is also not true that only women-born-women can become a member of these groups.
But if you don't fit in... well, then you simply don't fit in. You can't blame other people that they can't relate to your story. That sucks, I know.
The real miracle of a peer support group is that the other people in that group need only half a word to understand what you are talking about. If that miracle isn't working for you, the group is not for you. And similar: if other people feel that they don't understand you, even when you use 50 words to explain what you feel, you have to understand that those people don't belong to your group.
I can only hope you believe me when I say that the fact we have xy-chromosomes is not the real common factor that binds women in an AIS support group. Of course, for people without AIS that is the most 'visible' aspect of AIS. But for women with AIS it is more about how you have to deal with that knowledge.
I don't know what you asked, but I think that it is normal that an AIS support group can't give you much information. Every now and them I get letters from people who think that I'm an medical professional and that I can tell diagnose them with an intersex condition. The AIS support groups work with volunteers. Some of them have an academic degree and others don't. Many of them know a lot about the XY intersex conditions. But you can't expect them to know everything about every possible condition IS or not-IS. The main job of the volunteers is to welcome new members and if there is time left we also try to help other people. So, if you say that feel pushed away, it is quite well possible that nobody knew what to answer. Anyway, I don't feel responsible for what other people with or without AIS did to you. So please don't be angry with me.
Groeten, Miriam
prince....ss?
12-12-06, 07:01 PM
All I am saying is the AIS, PAIS men are turned away and told to go elsewhere. So if you offer no assistance then you are in a sense telling them to go fuck themselves.
If you turn all the men away that are AIS or PAIS then there are no men within the organization to facilitate support the men with this condition issues. So to say that no men are there to organize the men’s group is a weak defense being that you don’t allow men in the first place.
I have never tried to become a member of AISSG so I was never turned down. I am not AIS or any of the other conditions for women that you represent. I also don’t care much for the “your still a woman” mantra that constantly gets crammed down your neck. They seam to think that if you tell the lie enough you will start to believe it.
If you don’t like what I write perhaps it is because I am just being honest and realistic. So if you are looking for people to tell you you’re a beautiful woman rather than the truth that you are not much better than the average Halloween drag queen well that’s your choice. I prefer the truth and honesty and I always speak the truth whether it’s popular or not. I also don’t like discrimination and I will stand up against it. And I still think it’s wrong that you offer nothing for the men.
Also to clarify my earlier post in this thread. Being that the only condition that I have been given is male pseudo hermaphrodite and not AIS or CAH or any of the others because I don’t fit the body parts list or have the symptoms of the other conditions It’s folks like the AISSG that are forcing all the issues and forcing all the decisions but not representing everyone that is effected by your changes. So I don’t care to be represented within the medical and intersex community by people that discriminate against their own.
That’s my opinion whether you like it or not.
Sunshine1
12-13-06, 12:53 AM
Hi Dana!
:bounce:
:wavey:
:wave1:
Aimee
Sunshine1
12-13-06, 09:35 AM
I don't post much anymore but it was good to see you responded as well.
I've learned a lot from what you've written and thank you for being you.
Aimee
Dana Gold
12-13-06, 10:46 AM
Hi Aimee!! :happydanc Thanks for the kind words. We all learn from each other, you've contributed as well. Take care.
Dana :wink_smil
Priestess
12-13-06, 06:43 PM
Miriam,
That's okay, I'm not angry with you, and I'm only partly-frustrated with the AIS groups. I realize the members have their own concerns. I'm only upset with the situation I'm in, where there seems to be nobody who doesn't disavow me.
And I don't think I would have said to you or any other AIS'er some of the things that princess said. Regardless of how similar our conditions may or may not be, I find I can't quite agree with her when she said how everyone who sets off y-detection must be drag queens. I guess she might feel like someone stole her manhood, which is understandable I suppose. Just it's not how I feel.
Dana Gold
12-13-06, 07:36 PM
Gee, why would a PAIS man want to be with AIS women when personal issues are going to be sooooo different? :thinking2 If I would have the wont to participate in personal support group dynamics then I'd go to where the similarities outweigh the differences....and a men's group? :confused_ for those with my condition....hah!...no way, Jose!! Do I want to be part of a gathering ...where they would be chattering men's stuff and focusing on men's issues?? :sick:
Would men know about and/or could relate to women's issues or .....women about men's....it's only practical...and common sense.
Sometimes the same umbrella (as in an umbrella term IS, DSD, CAH etc) can block out the sun as well as the rain.....not all within the same label are going to feel comfortable or get the support they need; the individual/specific differences requiring some to go on to where the same "language" (thoughts/feelings and personal psyche) is "spoken".
PS: since I'm one of those "orphans" who don't have a "ready-freddy"- diagnosis like some here, that hasn't hindered me in interacting with others.....certainly one thing we all can relate to is the experience and reality of being anatomically different from the "normo-sexuals"........don't need a moniker for that.
Dana......hmmm..I like the little twirly thingy that accompanies clicking on Edit...{:>)
fraulein_Maria
12-14-06, 03:44 PM
Fraulin Maria,
Bull shit!!!
>>> can you be more specific please? <<<
These support groups are a contact point and an organization. A place of focus so that people that need support can find it.
>>> some are. some aren't. one of the AIS support groups @<hidden> is open to everyone (i don't have AIS... i asked to join so i could learn about AIS people... the condition itself is no mystery to me) they graceously allowed me in. They have just as graciously allowed PAIS'ers (both male and female identifying) and transgendered MtF folks in.
I wish the owner/moderator (a male doctor who is seemingly impossible to actually reach) took a more active role. Failing that, turn over moderating duties to someone who will actually do the job.
I don't see this as unreasonable. <<<
I don’t have a problem if you want to have a meeting with just young girls with AIS but to say to someone sorry you identify as a man so go fuck yourself is wrong.
>>> I never said, nor i believe, did i imply such a thing. the fact is, the MtF trangendered identify as female not male, so i really don't know where any of this is coming from. <<<
AISSG should have a place for the men that have AIS, a common but separate place.
>>> it was my understanding that it did. should that not be so however, there is nothing to stop men with AIS from starting there own group. <<<
BLO can support many intersex conditions, why can’t they support one of their own!!!
>>> princess, what do you need? i mean really?
As several BLO members can attest, i have been there for them. And my assistance is not simply electronic. for privacy's sake, i can't be specific, but understand that i'm a most resourceful person. Think of me as RADAR O'Reilly of MASH. If i don't have it, i know someone who does, and i can get them to sell or trade for it.
fraulein_Maria
12-14-06, 04:06 PM
[QUOTE=miriam;12395]@<hidden> fraulein_Maria: Actually, the girls are not 13 yo. The girls on the front page of the Dutch AISSG website are between 15 and 20 years old:
>>> miriam, i was talking about the yahoogroup. and you've gone to the meeting in the USA... there kids. just kids. beautiful kids. i have a ten year old daughter. she doesn't have AIS. she has been virilized, so she just might take after 3-beta CAH lil' ole me.
there are men with CAH. they have there own support groups. i'm glad they have there own, and don't seek to invade mine. Although i am unashamed of who and what i am......
i have no right to expect that others not be.
That's something i can hope for. I can help others work towards that.
But expect? no. Especially not the kids...
Kids.... Tis the nature of adolecense to be self-conscious anyway...
To feel "freakish" and embarrassed by the changes that are occuring (or not occuring) and of course parents just don't understand! ;)
I can tolerate a man in my locker room.....
But the minute he walks into my daughter's, as a parent, i have a problem with that.
Call me sexist. Call me transphobic. But i don't know a good parent out there who doesn't have the same problem.
fraulein_Maria
12-14-06, 04:09 PM
You're probably right, Miriam.....my response was just another manifestation of my "Florence Nightingale" syndrome....having been a nurse in the "distant past" , I just wanted to help....sometimes I make an ass out of myself in the process.......:>/
DG
>>> :) same here, lol. :) <<<
Priestess
12-14-06, 04:26 PM
Call me sexist. Call me transphobic. But i don't know a good parent out there who doesn't have the same problem.
I've noticed. Even worse than me, and I was given a reason to feel betrayed.
fraulein_Maria
12-14-06, 04:26 PM
[QUOTE=prince....ss?;12404]All I am saying is the AIS, PAIS men are turned away and told to go elsewhere. So if you offer no assistance then you are in a sense telling them to go fuck themselves.
>>> not in the yahoogroup. they let anyone in. its so bad, that the girls set up another one that you can only get in by invite only. forgive me, but i'm glad they did.
just an FYI...
they have not invited me, nor have i asked, nor do i wish to ask.
I entered there space in yahoo, painfully conscious of my status as a guest. I hope that they have been as blessed by me, as i have been by them.
Priestess
12-14-06, 04:37 PM
not in the yahoogroup. they let anyone in. its so bad, that the girls set up another one that you can only get in by invite only. forgive me, but i'm glad they did.
A place that bad probably doesn't qualify as support. So why does it count as a resource? WWW never said what grade of pais he had, but from his description of what was done to him, he's probably insensitive enough that if his parent's had take the other surgical option, he'd likely be AIS enough to be on the AIS women's forums. So how does the illusion that his parents created on his body touch upon the worthiness of his personal nature to interact with AIS girls?
Dana Gold
12-14-06, 06:42 PM
Gosh, I'm a bit embarrassed; I made a comment about men vs women in the light of my own experience....and the thread here is about WWW and his PAIS experience. I realize now that AIS, PAIS etc and the issues thereof is best left to AISer's to determine what, where, and how....Miriam was right the first time and Priestess has a point....and lastly, it's all up to WWW to make the decision with the guidance of other AISer's...they know what they're talking about....non-AISer's can only guess, however well-meaning.
Anyway..made another ass outta myself .....:redface:
(but it gets me to posting, eh?, Miriam:wink_smil
Dana :interesti
For those people interested in upcoming events in the SF Bay Area, here is part of a letter from Ajae Clearway, the film-maker who made the recent documentary "One in 2000":
"I have sent "One in 2000" to many festivals and it has played so far at Cinematexas, Berkeley Video and Film Festival, Hot Springs Documentary Film Festival, and Mill Valley Film Festival. The response has been overwhelmingly positive. The University Film and Video Association honored the film with the "Best Documentary" award as part of their "Nextframe" travelling film festival.
Fanlight Productions will also be distributing the film to" non-profit organizations. www.fanlight.com
Close to 100 people who were unable to attend the Mill Valley screening will be coming to the screening in Palo Alto... on December 18.
Blessings,
Ajae"
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