Emotional Gender?

[Pashakitty]

Can you be emotionally, mentally, and spiritually intersexed without being physically intersexed? I was (to the best of my knowledge) born female, though my gender identity was never in physical doubt I have felt emotionally intersexed since I was very little.

I grew up a tom-boy, and still am to this day. I am bi-sexual and have been since I first became aware of sexuality, roughly in the 4th grade. I have had constant gender issues because I have an undoubtedly female body but do not always conform to my gender mentally, emotionally, or spiritually.

Now before someone goes and says that I am or was meant to be transgender let me first clarify. I do not want to be a man; that has never been my interest or draw; though I do wish that I had a penis.

That seems to be my biggest issue; I like having a female form but have always wished that I could be physically both. To the best of my knowledge there is no option in gender reassignment surgery to add rather than change.

Society says that you must be one or the other, yet my entire life I have felt as if I were both embodied in one. I have been with the same partner for roughly 18 years and even he says that a good 40% to 50% of the time I tend to think, speak, or respond to situations in a typically MALE fashion.

If it were possible to become intersexed without radical, painful, reconstructive surgery that could possibly destroy part of my gender identity, I would volunteer in half a heart beat. Does that make me strange? Am I alone in how I feel? Am I a just a greedy pervert as some folks have called me? If some of us were not meant to be BOTH male AND female then why do I feel this way?

I have a friend who is intersexed in the way that science says is impossible, born (externally) male it was discovered only at puberty that he had female internal organs. He had many problems medically growing up because he menstruates though it was all internal with no external openings his body simply reabsorbs everything.

I have read that it is supposed to be impossible for him to be fully functional as both a male and a female, but I am the godmother of his eldest son. He married one of my best friends at the time and FATHERED two healthy boys. So if it’s impossible, then why does he also go through menstruation every month? He has ovaries and a uterus that are functional just without the external access.

If he were to undergo surgery to give him a vagina he could, (conceivably) get pregnant and give birth. Yet science says that he is an impossibility, someone who was born FULLY FUNCTIONAL AS BOTH MALE AND FEMALE. Why was he born that way if he was meant to be one or the other? He also is bi-sexual, though I don’t know if that has any bearing on being born intersexed. Though I think it might actually be part of the reason behind true bi-sexuality.

True bi-sexuality meaning someone born with an attraction to both genders, not someone who decided to try it because it was considered cool, or was forced to. But someone who has always had an equal interest in both genders.

So please, someone tell me if I am alone in my thoughts and feelings, am I a freak? I have two children whom I gave birth to, both born physically female. The oldest of which is also bi-sexual, even though she was not raised by me after she was 7 years of age. The youngest of witch prefers to consider herself gender ambiguous, even though she was not raised by me after she was a year old.

My mother took custody of my children due to her moral objection to what I felt that I was, but that’s another story. Even though neither of my children grew up in my household they have both experienced the same gender issues and uncertainties that I do.
So, I ask again; if we weren’t meant to be both then why do we feel this way?

Woof, sorry. This turned out to be a lot longer than I expected it to.

[des10ed2b]

you could be my long lost sibling! lol. thats exactly how i am and the way i feel. if i could keep my boobs and have a penis i would be the happiest person alive! i dont think there is such thing as "true" male or female. most of us in here will agree that gender identity is something that society has created. men like sports, are aggressive, love to play in the dirt as children, are harder to control, like cars, etc. women love to dress up, and cook and sew and are neat and tidy and easy to control as children. and anytime someone doesnt follow those guidelines, they are "weird" or "not normal". bullshit if you ask me!

we are the way we are. regardless of what is between our legs. how often do you look at a bird flying around and think "oh. that must be a boy"? never. because they dont conform to things like society and what is acceptable.

i am fully female (as far as i know also) i was your typical little girl who loved dresses, make-up, stuffed animals, and pink. but i have NEVER gotten along with other girls well. even in grade school i got along much better with boys then i did girls and by the time i was in puberty, people would comment on how i thought and spoke like a guy. but it was just who i was. by 13 i was well aware that i was bisexual. came out about it. and now, here i am, 23, married, mother of one and one on the way, and i STILL prefer women over men. yes, my husband is aware. lol.

im rambling. anywho. my point is, when people think of a person they think "boy" or they think "girl". very rarely does anyone think beyond those boundaries. so people are accustomed to being the same way with personalities. they think that someone acts "boy" or someone acts "girl" when really, there just isnt 2 simple, straight line categories like that! we are just people. plain and simple.

[fraulein_Maria]

[QUOTE=Pashakitty;15075]Can you be emotionally, mentally, and spiritually intersexed without being physically intersexed?

>>> Nope. Its all about our Bodies... hence the name of the site.

To illustrate, let me ask you this Question.......

When you think about sex, what is the first thing that pops into your mind?


If you said "making love" congratulations! your feminine (though not necessarily female ;)




If you said "fucking" congratulations! your masculine (though not necesarily male ;)















But the first thought that goes through the mind of someone who is Intersexed is.....















How bad is it gonna hurt this time? :(















Even those of us who mercifully have not been surgically "corrected" have to endure the following nightmare.....















Should i tell my prospective partener about this?

Can he/she handle the fact that from birth, i've always looked extremely female...

but that i have a short vagina and a "Y" chromosome? Will he get mad, and rape me? Will she get mad, and dump me? (this is AIS)


Or...

Can he/she handle the fact that my clitorus is either "reduced" or missing entirely, so that oral/manual sex is a new adventure in pain for me every time i am not completely numb? (this is CAH)





And this is just those of us society labels "female". I'll leave it to the guys to describe their nightmares.... being IS is even less of a picnic for them.

[JOS]

It wasn't so long ago that women were viewed as "odd" if they wore trousers (pants... sorry I'm British lol)... and currently it's not exactly common place (common acceptance) for men to wear skirts.

But these are societal issues.... fashions if you like.
In the UK it's common for baby girls to be dressed in pink and boys in blue.... but look a few hundred years back and the reverse was true.....

oh and 'manly' men wore make up, it was a sign of being poor if you didn't!!! lol

but as fraulein_Maria said

Its all about our Bodies... hence the name of the site.

and sorry to quibble but no... incorrect....

Yet science says that he is an impossibility

Science says... FACT..... 'ambiguous' sex is not only a well recorded scientific fact but is even used by scientists in the classification of some species.

I do agree that a change in perception needs to occur.... if a person wishes, why must they present as either male OR female.... why do they HAVE to choose, or worse still why should the choice be made for them before they are even able to understand or argue with that decision?

But to be intersex.... surely you have to actually BE not just empathise?:???:

[Andre]

I agree with JOS on this one.

My body type is anything but ambiguous as I have Klinefelter's and there is a category open just for this condition right here on this very forum. I am positive my body looks like any other male my age, height and mass and yet I am still Intersexed.

When if came here, I was looking for answers which brought up new questions. Support was/is a huge factor here and I am grateful for the revelations I came to realise all because people here cared enough to give me their thoughts and advice.

Andre

[PAISWoman]

My family thinks everything about my body is in my mind. They think I just woke up one morning and said, I'm intersexed. In fact, they don't even accept the fact that I'm intersexed.

I have had showed them what the doctors have said. They think the doctors are liars. Although they do lie sometimes.

I've had to go through my entire childhood as an psychologically intersexed child while society pointed and mocked me. I won't even begin to tell you what I had to do to gain the few people I could call my friends. Let's just say, no child should have to do what I did.

My last ex-friend, refused to even talk about my condition. In fact, she told me when I did talk about it, others thought I was sick in the head. So for 10 years I let everyone think I was a transexual pretending to be a woman.

The hardest part is not fitting in, no where. :stormy: days please go away.

[fraulein_Maria]

[QUOTE=PAISWoman;15107]My family thinks everything about my body is in my mind. They think I just woke up one morning and said, I'm intersexed. In fact, they don't even accept the fact that I'm intersexed.

>>> you don't have to answer, but asking may help.....

have you had a gonadectomy? even PAIS'ers raised as male usually do. They tend to turn cancerous (more so than completes) so it would be strange to me if you hadn't. And proof that your parents KNOW, if you had.

Denial sucks. I haven't bothered telling my family what i have "discovered" yet until i get ALL my paperwork together (not easy for us to do).

And if they dis me then? f@<hidden>#$'em they were never there for me, so i don't need them. I have friends, i have a church, i have a community.

They all know. They all love me. To hell with my blood relatives. <<<

[PAISWoman]

[QUOTE=PAISWoman;15107]My family thinks everything about my body is in my mind. They think I just woke up one morning and said, I'm intersexed. In fact, they don't even accept the fact that I'm intersexed.

>>> you don't have to answer, but asking may help.....

have you had a gonadectomy? <<<


Yes I have had a bilateral orchidectomy about 9 years ago. The doctor said they were too small, no pun intended. But that's what he said. Of course they would never answer my questions about if I was sterile or not. They just said, "It's a possibility." Still this gave them no alarm just as it did when my urologist couldn't find my prostate. He simply said, "hmmmm, that's funny, I don't feel a prostate," while I laid on that table in agony while he twisted and turned his finger looking for something that either isn't there or so small that it can't be detected.

After that experience they tacked on GID on my medical records and never questioned their finding anymore until the CT exam.

Tell me, how does one have GID (Gender Identity Disorder) when there are so many physical signs that point to something else that they simply ignore reality? Of course, I can understand how one can be both. But to ignore the obvious is just plain dumb to me. It's as if a woman notices lumps in her breast and she goes to the doctors and says, something is wrong with my breast and the doctors does the exam and feel the lumps then turns around and says, "Oh don't worry about them lumps, they'll go away. Give it sometime."

Today it's unspeakable for any doctor to make that kind of comment, but I wonder how many women lost their lives in the past due to that kind of stupid remark because they didn't know any better? I can bet my last dollar that their are tons of women who lost thier lives in the past as a result.

Today, it's called medical negligence.

[fraulein_Maria]

[QUOTE=PAISWoman;15126][QUOTE=fraulein_Maria;15114]


Yes I have had a bilateral orchidectomy about 9 years ago.

>>> are you saying they waited till you were an adult? generally speaking that's not a bad idea ( its TESTICULAR feminization after all ) but in the case of P-AIS'ers quite dangerous. <<<

The doctor said they were too small, no pun intended.

>>> only if you want to be a guy. <<<

But that's what he said. Of course they would never answer my questions about if I was sterile or not.

>>> sadly, you are now. you probably were before they were removed also... the possibility of producing sperm, was remote. <<<

They just said, "It's a possibility." Still this gave them no alarm just as it did when my urologist couldn't find my prostate. He simply said, "hmmmm, that's funny, I don't feel a prostate,"

>>> you may still have one. "normal" women have vestigal prostates about the size of a grain of rice. a CAH gal like me has one the size of a pea. It might be easier to feel it through your vaginal wall. <<<

After that experience they tacked on GID on my medical records and never questioned their finding anymore until the CT exam.

>>> if you have the chance to see a good psychiatrist... bring him/her your Dx of PAIS.... so he/she can remove that bald faced lie from your records. Although some of us "transition" its not because of GID... its because the doctors flipped a coin and made a mistake in our gender assignment. The psychiatric profession knows this.... that's why having an IS condition PRECLUDES a Dx of GID. <<<

[The Female Eunuch]

Pashakitty asked: Can you be emotionally, mentally, and spiritually intersexed without being physically intersexed? I was (to the best of my knowledge) born female, though my gender identity was never in physical doubt I have felt emotionally intersexed since I was very little.

It wouldn't be called intersexed, the term intersexed refers specifically to anatomy, or more specifically, anatomy of parts of the body other than the brain.

But if people can be born with an instinctive gender identity opposite to that of their body, it is presumably also possible to be born with an instinctive gender identity that is somehow a mixture of female and male. You could call this 'intergendered'. It is certainly noticable in the lesbian community that some lesbians seem to think much like the average heterosexual woman except in terms of sexual attraction, while others have other personality traits that are more typically masculine.

cheers,
Caroline

[Helios]

I believe what you are describing would be called by many people, "Gender Queer."

[jevix8525]

I think we are a lot alike. No you aren't a pervert. If you look up pangender you'll see that this is a feeling that a good amount of people have to the point that there is a title for it. I was very happy when I found this information.

[miriam]

Just for the record... this website is not about gender queer, pangender or wtf-gender... it's about bodies like ours. And not about bodies like yours or genders like yours.

Miriam