Lies......

[reillaway]

I have had two "corrective" surgeries growing up, one when I was very young and the other when I was eighteen. I had not the slightest clue why, all I knew is that I wasn't like other women. The last few days has been a reality check for me, and all it took was me realizing a couple of things about myself. Maybe I was afraid to know for sure, or didn't know exactly what I was asking. Why do they lie to us? Parents, Doctors, and family members! When a surgery of this sort is performed, they can't just cut and paste and expect everything to work normal, they have no idea the complete make up of each individuals body. So why lie and try to tell us something that isn't true, or why not just come out with the facts. I guarantee it would have been easier for me now if I would have known when I was younger.

:confused: Alex

[Andrea]

What you are saying is so true if we were born with no legs or missing kidney the likelihood of being lied to is less since people see no shame in such situations.
In my situation I was not so much lied to, I was constantly kept in the dark. I will always remember sitting in my doctors office on numerous occasions after having another humiliating examination, my mum and the doctor would be talking about me with me sat there (even as a teenager) and no one would bother to explain anything to me. I know I would have made better choices about my condition in adult life if I had been given the opportunity to process all the information about myself growing up

[reillaway]

Andrea,
The doctors examinations are more than humiliating and even being on the professional side of it, I've come into some very embarrassing and overall crushing experiences. I don't think that my mom truely understands the circumstances to it's full effect, and maybe to her what I have been told is the truth. I think that overall she is afraid to tell me everything that I am asking, and it just took me wanting to know the truth to realize it. I definately could have had an easier time if I would have known all the circumstances. If I could have answered the questions that doctors had instead of letting them humiliate me because I don't know what the hell is going on. It won't happen any more though because I am on the way to accepting and knowing who I am. I just believe that in my dealings it wouldn't have been so hard to know who I am, and no let some stranger tear me down because they have no clue about me.

Alex

[Andrea]

You are correct I dont really think my mother truly understood the extent of my condition. Her main aim was to try to fix the problem by doing whatever the doctor said and hide it from everyone, plus in doing so try to make me have as normal a childhood as possible. Of course I couldnt because I knew there was something very wrong with me. I dont blame her she did the best she could and she did not have any support.

[Betsy]

We can't we blame our parents because for the most part, they were only following the doctor's orders of secrecy and they too were shamed into their place.

One of my earliest memories of my life is being about 3 years and "medically examined" in the hospital by large groups of residents or other curiousity seekers. My mom wasn't always there or she was told I was furthering medical science. As a nurse, she fell for it.

I would ask questions, and was told it was because they wanted to make sure I was growing normally. That is what she was told to tell me, and what she thought was my best interest and never revealed the truth to me.

We are making a ton of headway in this area and we are changing the way IS kids are treated by the medical institutions by speaking out about it. I offer this up as mostly a caveat....to let you know that your words do make a difference and to thank you both Alex and Andrea for sharing yours.

It won't lessen your own pain, but it does do good for the IS baby born tomorrow. My own pain is still a struggle for me to speak out out because it leaves me in really unhealthy places sometimes. Once in a while I do speak out about it though.

Betsy
\
PS....(this sounds kind of whore-ish to even mention now but we do have tapes of me doing a spoken word piece of this topic available and will send a copy for a donation of $100 to Bodies. I haven't really mentioned it because I still have some mixed feelings about sharing such an intimate moment)

[Drake]

I could not find find any doctor to help me when I was 19. Everyone I called thought I was either prank calling them and would hang up on me. One doctor's office actually made an appt. agreeing to see me. When I showed up, a different doctor met with me and informed me he didn't know why they made an appt. with the original doc being that he'd been retired for quite some time! Then I finally thought I'd go to a gynecologist. He agreed to run a chromosome test on me and examined me somewhat but said it looked to him like I have a deformed penis and said that because I also had female traits that there is no way I could ever have corrective surgery for my penis and therefore I may as well cut it off.

He wouldn't show me my chromosome test when it came in he kept trying to hide the paper from me! Everytime I tried to look at it on his desk as he was speaking to me he kept curling the page toward him.

What are the correct female chromosomes and what are the correct male chromosomes? Can any of you help me out with this answer? I want to get the chromosome test done again by someone who isn't predjudiced. I'm thinking if I can figure out what the norm for each gender is then I'll know something is up if mine turn out different.

Also, how does one go about legally changing their birth records to correct the gender one identifies with? Aren't there different steps to go through for hermaphrodites than what ts/tg's have to go through?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Drake

[claraJane]

Hi Drake,

Ordinarily a man is 46,XY and a woman 46,XX. And they may indicate the number of cells tested in the karyotype as well.

In some states you can order your own karyotype. For instance, in Georgia, a company called Any Lab Test will do a karyotype for a bit less than $1000. They have LabCorp actually do the lab work.

As far as changing your birth certificate goes, it depends on where you were born (and/or registered). For instance, for people born in Illinois, a parent and a physician must sign an affidavit that says that a mistake was made. The old record is sealed and a new certificate is issued with no indication that it isn't the original. If you tell me where you were born I may be able to find out what the requirements are for your state.

cjs

[Katt]

Actually, there will be a noticable change: the date on the birth certificate. Of course, people can only guess why the date is not around the time of birth. This may, or may not raise red flags when applying for employment, driver's license, or other things.

Katt

[claraJane]

Well, actually, if you get a certified copy of my birth certificate from the state, you wouldn't be able to tell whether or not it had been re-issued. And it would take a court order to unseal the old one. I kept a copy of the original in case I ever needed to prove there'd been a change.

BTW, I've never had to produce a birth certificate for anyone other than for my original driver's license...

[uriela]

Also, how does one go about legally changing their birth records to correct the gender one identifies with? Aren't there different steps to go through for hermaphrodites than what ts/tg's have to go through?


I'm TS and would have to have surgery before they will correct my birth certificate and Social Security records. Social Security keeps records of sex--I found out when I had my name changed. My work records also list me as male. Maybe there is another post about how to do it for IS people. For TSs the protocol for changing the birth certificate varies from state to state. I think there is a reference in AEGIS, but it is usually to be found in your state law.

I was born at a hospital and the county seat was only about four miles away but although I was born on 7/9 the birth certificate was not registered until 8/21. I've asked a few relatives about this but--no answers or stonewalling(?). As I was growing up I was told there was a race as to who would have the first male A___. My cousin was the second, born about three weeks later. Did they win the race before or after my cousin was born?

Clarajane, you must have never left the country, because the BC is required to get a passport.

Hope no one is getting blown away by Isabel

Uriela

[Natasha (again)]

Originally posted by Betsy
We can't we blame our parents because for the most part, they were only following the doctor's orders of secrecy and they too were shamed into their place.

Many of us can Bestsy.

It is not always the case that our parents were pressured, or shamed into going along. Look at some of those blindly selfish parents, who reject what you have told them on the CAH forum. They reject your personal real life testimony, of how you were harmed by surgery.

It is clear then, that often parents reject any responsibility and then blame bad results later on, upon the doctors for "pressuring them". This happens because _some_ parents (not all), go into denial off the fact, that they were just selfish, with very little if any concern at all, for what really is best for their child.

Think about it! Their supposed shame is often based upon what other people will think of THEM, and not really that they would be hurting their child if they don't allow surgery. How can that be anything but their selfish priorities, superseding concern for what is best for my child?

Doesn't it occur to them, that appending moral culpability to an act of nature is simply absurd? No! Sometimes it doesn't! And that is both completely and unbelievably absurd, and absolutely inexcusable therefor!

That the testimony of so many of us is dismissed, and the doctors believed over our real life experience. Surely proves that the real concern is, "what will others think" of me and my husband, etc..

Maybe we would have more success, if we went after *those responsible*, and held them accountable for their selfish and absurd assumptions. Mere assumptions which prove so incredibly harmful to us.

Perhaps it is time to stop believing their absurd excuses, and even making excuses for them, and then get the GOD DAMNED laws changed! It is the parents responsibility to protect their children, from any and all, and that includes crazy doctors also.

Natasha

[Natasha (again)]

I am so sorry that this thread topic, wound up being changed to
documentation concerns. That had to have hurt.

Natasha