Greeting Yet a Question...

[kira]

Hi everyone. I am in the precess of writting an autobiography where I am going to be open and honest about my feelings regarding being intersexed. This is not the only topic in the book. I was wondering what are the current odds about being born as a true intersexed individual? Are they greater than 1:14000?

Thanks! Kira

[Glenn]

The research I did last summer (http://users.snip.net/~gbooker/is.zip) said more like 1:1000 to 1:2000. That was based on ISNA.org and several medical journals.

Glenn

[Natasha (again)]

Originally posted by kira
I was wondering what are the current odds about being born as a true intersexed individual? Are they greater than 1:14000?

Thanks! Kira

Hi Kira,

You mentioned "true intersexed" individuals. Just curious what the diving lines of demarcation are in your opinion.

[kira]

Ah...good point. I was under the impression there was the "true", the male psudo and female psudo for a total of three "categories". I realize these are just labels since none of us can share the actual experience only our feelings about them. If there are only two categories please forgive my lack of education. As with any language there is always something ambiqious regarding any "label" therefore we just agree a certain term "means" this. Seldom is there anything "perfect".

After thinking about the "other" issues surrounding my story, while I may feel my question is valid and hopefully obtain a statistical answer, I'm leaning more toward the issue of statistically the occurance of "equal lobed" and the mental/creative ability to "free associate". I had an experience which this ability may have played a factor in saving my life. I hate to sound "mysterious" about this factor but, oh well, perhaps as I come into more information I can expound further. Pleease...be patient.

[Natasha (again)]

Originally posted by kira
Ah...good point. I was under the impression there was the "true", the male psudo and female psudo for a total of three "categories". I realize these are just labels since none of us can share the actual experience only our feelings about them. If there are only two categories please forgive my lack of education. As with any language there is always something ambiqious regarding any "label" therefore we just agree a certain term "means" this. Seldom is there anything "perfect".


Yes, I agree the labels they gave us, long ago, are less than perfect.

But what caught my attention was, that you wrote "true intersexed", rather than, "true hermaphrodite".

As for statistics, I surmise that just how 'rare and special' the intersexed are, depends upon ones definition of Intersex.

I think also that the fewer in number we are, then the less potential exists for gaining public support, in changing the medical treatment protocol. Perhaps I am wrong, but it is far easier for society to overlook the suffering of a rare few, than it is for them to do the same to a larger group, or even possibly an entire class of people. Of course being very rare and special has it's advantages too, I suppose.

[kira]

Surely you can't be refering to the carnaval side show where promoters whould make a living hunting up the "freaks" ;) Or how about the vaunted Internet where millions of people around the world actually pay to watch the sex acts of "she/males"?

What has really changed? All I ever wanted was to be loved and accepted as well as to show someone how much I care about them. Pretty basic stuff. In some cultures around the world intersexed individuals are revered because oftheir gifts. In a "Christian" country like America what do we get?

Blame for being born?

Unless some of us share our stories openly little changes. I've also come to the conclusion that pretty much little will change until it becomes a "personal problem". People ignore the feelings of others until it happens to them. Then all of a sudden, Wham, "this is now important". Others just go on like before.

I'm a very special and truely gifted person. If people are so worried about my crouch, which they can't see any way, verses seeing me, well, what do I really need them for?

Acceptance?

Heck...they are better off being "customers" provided they buy my book any way ;)

[Natasha (again)]

Originally posted by kira
Surely you can't be refering to the carnaval side show where promoters whould make a living hunting up the "freaks" ;) Or how about the vaunted Internet where millions of people around the world actually pay to watch the sex acts of "she/males"?

I have no idea how you got that impression, from anything I wrote in my response to you above. Maybe I misunderstood your meaning here though.


What has really changed? All I ever wanted was to be loved and accepted as well as to show someone how much I care about them. Pretty basic stuff.

I understand how you feel, as I feel much the same. Really I think all people do for the most part.


In some cultures around the world intersexed individuals are revered because of their gifts. In a "Christian" country like America what do we get?

Blame for being born?


Kira, in all fairness our culture can hardly be described as
Christian. Jesus did not teach materialism, intolerance or
violence. In fact Jesus spoke strongly against all of these
things. Yet these are all hallmarks of our culture.


Unless some of us share our stories openly little changes. I've also come to the conclusion that pretty much little will change until it becomes a "personal problem". People ignore the feelings of others until it happens to them. Then all of a sudden, Wham, "this is now important". Others just go on like before.


I quite agree. In fact, the more of us who do so, then so much the better.


I'm a very special and truely gifted person. If people are so worried about my crouch, which they can't see any way, verses seeing me, well, what do I really need them for?

Acceptance?


I agree that you are gifted, and also very special as well Kira. :) For one thing you have survived what would have destroyed most people. More than one therapist has said the same to me also.

Though unlike you, I will likely never know with any certainty if I truly was born a hermaphrodite. Although the results of many medical tests performed upon me over many years, do strongly indicate that I was, according to some doctors. Yet having only that and the testimony of my Grandma, I lack sufficient proof of such a pedigree. I am fine with that though.


Heck...they are better off being "customers" provided they buy my book any way ;)

I know I will buy it, and I really look forward to it.

Natasha

[Mia]

I am not sure about writing this but I will give it a try. I am not sure if I have a place in BLO though. I always wondered what was wrong with me, but I know I am not an intersex person, but I don't know where I fit in either! What if a girl was born with miniture external genitals and in a lot of ways they don't look like other girls what are they? I know if you were a man with small genitals you would have major issues, but what of women? I finally spoke to a doctor a month ago about it and he said you just got to accept the way God made you. I am a female, I suppose, but where do I fit in? Can I get support on this website? I am 43 years old. I have avoided men my whole life, lest anyone should find out my horrible secret. But as I read this site I feel ashamed when others have it so much harder. Can anyone give me any direction? Are there other women like this

[Glenn]

Intersexuality isn't a contest to see who has the most severe condition. Some forms are very subtle and some aren't. Everyone is welcome here - even if you were "normal"!

What's important is that you are perfect the way you are. Don't forget that part!

Yes, it can be hard to find someone understanding, and that sucks. I'm convinced that people are the meanest species, especially toward each other. But I think you will find this bunch very supportive.

Glenn

[kira]

Welcome to the group. When I read your post I wanted to put you at ease in a way. It's been my experience that its easier to preach love and acceptance than to live it.

In a nutshell, it's not size that matters but the heart behind it. At least in theory. While I don't know exactly your feelings about your experience, yet anyway, I can identify with some aspects.

In my opinion, you are welcome where ever I am ;) although I am not the moderator. Its a sad commentary about society which places emphasis on their "parts" and how they compare. What's really the deciding factor, or should be, is what is inside of someone. If someone wants to "judge" you as unworthy because of something you have been given then you don't need them in your life. A person of TRUE worth sees past the physical.

Unfortunately, I can't change society for you and in reality only you can change (if you want to) how you deal with society. However, a gift is what you make of it.

Besides...most men are over rated ;)

[Natasha (again)]

Of course you are welcome here. I am really glad you are here too Mia.

As the others have said, this is not a contest, and if I have learned anything it is that there are many variations of intersex conditions. To my mind it comes down to having, sexual and or reproductive organs, that are even 'considered' outside "the norm" function 'or' appearance wise.

Really Mia, when it comes right down to it, what we all have in common are feelings just like the ones you have described. So I definitely believe, that you certainly do fit in here.

I just want to add one thing. Not all men are alike, and I am sure that somewhere out there is a man who not only accept you, but he will love you for exactly who and what you are. I do understand how you feel though Mia. I know what I said above is true, but I am still scared to death of men. Hey, it takes time. :)

Please stay with us, and don't hold back from speaking your mind.

I am really glad you are here.

[Mia]

Thanks for your kind replies. Maybe I have found a new home. I hope so. As I read some of you saying how this is not a contest to see who has it the worst kind of thing, a light went off in my mind that said "of course not!" Thanks everyone, that made me feel better. I need to work on accepting myself, the way I have read in some of the stories on this sight. Where and how does a person begin to start liking themselves when they have spent their whole life hating themselves? I recently started therapy, well actually a year ago I started, but it is only in the last couple of weeks that I told the therapist my secret. It was quite liberating. He was really nice about it, you know being a man and all... I thought he would roll around the room laughing but he was kind and compassionate. Maybe that is my start, to actually tell some people....? I live in London, England and I am glad I have found you all.

[Janet]

Bodies Like Ours is a space for all of us. As Glenn said so well, this is not a competition. Our variant bodies have been medicalized for the sake of some sick definition of "normal".

The key is rising beyond that, not living a damaged life and believing the REAL truth: we are magnificent.

[Natasha (again)]

You are in the right place, and we are all glad for it too.

You are more than welcome dear.

[Betsy]

Hey Kira,

Welcome by the way---i have been a bit neglectful here lately while busy with other stuff.

I got a chuckle out of what you said about the inordinate amount of attention paid to our bodies, particularly our genitals: Its a sad commentary about society which places emphasis on their "parts" and how they compare. What's really the deciding factor, or should be, is what is inside of someone.

One of the things I talk about when I speak is how so much attention was paid to the 3% of my body that didn't need fixing and how much the part that did need fixing was ignored. I actually stole the line from Asher who does some stuff with Queer Bodies.

I'll look forward to your book.

Betsy