you might want to read this

[Sofie]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/page.cfm?objectid=13574613&method=full&siteid=50143

[Dana Gold]

Sofie,

I tried to open the URL, but my browser stated the site couldn't be found....could you tell us the issue date of that newspaper/magazine, in case others have difficulty also. Thanks.

Dana

[Dana Gold]

The article mentions "poor blokes" and not even a hint of the woman feelings about the fiasco. No respect at all by the proper pronoun use.."it was really a man"...mention that the whole thing was meant to be a joke..all the crew members were distraught...I wonder if the "normals" will ever come to understand us. It is saddening and infuriating to me. However, I would have never let myself be pulled into a potential trouble zone like she did, but admit that I might have been awfully tempted since they probably offered her $$$$ (for most likely ARS costs) as bait. Terrible, terrible.
PS: thanks for sharing the article.

Dana

[Dana Gold]

I typed ARS... I meant SRS ( sex reassignment surgery )

Dana

[Sofie]

It is saddening and infuriating to me.

Sorry, it wasn't my intention to hurt anyone's feelings by posting the link. I was actually laughing when I read the article, it sounds so absurd. Probably the tv-company should have chosen contestants with a more developed sense of humor.

What's so bad about falling in love with a TS?

[uriela]

From the article:

"As Miriam is a transsexual I would never refer to her as a male or female. She is a gorgeous creature."

There are oh so many comments I would like to make about the supposedly friendly person who made this one. Really, though, it is worlds above other ways we've been referred to.

Caption of a similar article about the episode:

Is this the cruellest reality TV show yet?

Not by a long shot! It is similar to another show where the suitor is a gay man looking for a gay partner and one of the participants is straight. Sophie's right. They should have a better sense of humor. Anybody who thinks they will be able to find a life partner from going on a TV show is incredibly optimistic. That in itself is laughable.

The hosts of the show were careful not to refer to the "creature" as male or female and might be able to avoid a lawsuit.

Dana, whenever we tell people what we are we risk being the butt of stupid jokes and derogatory whatever. As you say, she must have known what she was getting into and had an idea of what to expect. Etc. If anyone approached me about doing this I would think they were kidding. Especially if they called me gorgeous!

Men! hahahaha!

[Dana Gold]

Actually, Sofie, you need not apologize, the article about the show infuriated and saddened me because it reminded me of 2 show in the USA where transsexuals have appeared as "guests" and been ridiculed and laughed at, like in a circus freak show...Jerry Springer Show and the Maury Povich Show. I know the guests place themselves in that position, like Uriel said. But I would never allow myself to be "displayed" and "duped" like on the UK show, especially if the men are angered because of it..they might resort to violence. Anyway, I am aware of the ways of the world and I know full well what you are talking about, Uriel . There are shows, however, like Oprah, that treat TS as human beings and so not all is bad. Anyway, bye.

Dana

[uriela]

It's "Uriela", not "Uriel."

Uriel, whose real name was Lani, died in bed at home alone, of cancer on the Feast of the Ascension, January 6, 2001. I feminized her web name for an alias when I signed on this list. Somehow I knew she was dead, even though she was a thousand miles away in Texas. The name intrigued me because I thought she had taken the name of a biblical eunuch. I guess I was wrong about that.

I've not been comfortable posting, because it rips me up. It is like I was raised not to offend anyone, but how in the world can anybody do that and why should I expect such an impossible goal for myself. One horoscope said, "You cannot go through life walking on eggs." And yet I have. And still am.

I see a counselor every three weeks. I don't know that it has helped a lot. I take things way way too personally. My former office manager said that a person in my situation has to have a very tough skin. I don't. He didn't help matters either. You know that attitude? It's all YOUR (meaning "my") fault. No matter what happened. And there are a lot of women in our office, and he, of course, was the one who stood behind every last one of them.

There is a priest who seems to have the same attitude: that I cause the homophobic reactions in others. A former acquaintance of mine calls it "blaming the victim."

The show we have been talking about was prepared for the aftermath by being ready to offer counseling to the men who were dating in this show. That shows how ingrained the notion is that they (being "real" men) would have a homophobic reaction when they finished the show. The show says (so I thought I read) that they had no complaints from the participants, even though there are supposed to be lawsuits in the offing.

I don't think the guys were duped. As far as I am concerned a transwoman is still a woman. (And, for that matter, a transman is a man, too.) Thoroughly caught in the binary, you say? Okay.

Maybe someday I will laugh at that last comment, and accept liminality. Or........?

Sophie, I'm glad you brought it up.

"Sometimes I have to let go of a problem before I can find a solution." Courage to Change, November 1.

Breathe deeply...

Uriela

[Dana Gold]

Sorry, Uriela, I realized that as soon after I posted it. Funny you should mention that your manager said you need a tough skin, my supervisor said the same thing to me (as in "you made the bed, you sleep in it")., even though I sensed he was trying to be "helpful". I read it further as" be a man about it".......I am a very sensitive and emotional person and I too take things too seriously, when in some situations I could laugh....but something inside me tells me not to because I don't ever want people to think my life is to be taken lightly, or worse, as sonmething humorous. I felt offended once when an older woman remarked (at work)in a cartoon voice : "oh, look, he messed up his pwetty hair", (it was a windy day).
Anyway, the creative mind survives all.

[uriela]

We didn't make the bed.

I dread those "man to man" talks. I feel sub-human for months after that. I don't care if they think they are being "helpful". They are degrading. Especially after they have put their imprimatur and nihil obstat on the situation and you have sat there, not daring to contradict them.

The year before Lani died she adopted this saying as her signature:

We are not human beings having spiritual experiences; we are powerful spiritual beings having human experiences.

Apology unnecessary. I should be happy to be called by the name she used and hope to attain that self-esteem she urged on me.

Uriela

[Betsy]

OMG...the transphobia by the writer of the article and the contestants is horrible. And I agree someone should probably talk to Mariam and ask her how she feels being referred to as " a creature" She's beautiful.


Betsy

[Dana Gold]

I have come to the point in my life that I am sick and tired of "explaining" to others about what's it like be TS and IS. At a particular community meeting I was asked to give an experience about being TS, but when I started to talk about my IS experience the moderator jumped in and interrupted me with "you're transgendered, so stick to that". What?!! Who are you to tell me what I can and can't say, and since then I have refused to give ANY of my experience. I read that and another time of similar experience as "people don't want to hear about genitals etc. ( i.e. "it's disgusting") even as TS: disgusting...we live in a genito-centric world and if you are different "down there" whether it TS, IS, or both...the "normals" see it as disgusting, weird, ugly, a joke, etc. OK, OK...not all "normals" (I perhaps need to wean myself off using the "n" word so much) are like that, but the ones that aren't just accept it as you are (not tolerate ACCEPT....that's different..I hear about people saying there should be more "tolerance" toward "diversity....to h*ll with that..that kind of tolerance is like two same poles of 2 magnets...they repel each other to a certain point....occupy the same space but at a distance: that kind of tolerance says: I'm ok with you as long as you don't get too close.
The bottom line with people is that they don't want to hear certain things, they blank out parts of what you tell them and interpret what they want to hear. I've talked to peopkle about my life and later I would be talking again and say" remember when I told you about this etc, and they would look at me with a blank stare.....the same blank stare when I told about it the first time...they are not really listening!! and their replies: they are talking AT you, NOT with you...and THAT'S what I hate the most. Anymore, my sentiment is "don't try to understand me, just accept me as a reality"..so I don't say sh*t to people anymore, trying to help them understand TS and IS is mostly a waste of time. The ones who have accepted me (mostly other women) don't try to analyze/figure me out. I don't have to explain to be tolerated and/oraccepted.
To talk with the "standard" male: it's close to useless, because you have to come down to their level, which reenforces their feeling of being superior and leaves you with feeling inferior. Ask any woman, they experience it a lot in the male-dominated world.(especially business)...to those good men (my friend Helen's husband is such a dear man and some of the men here on campus) I shouldapologize. Things are changing a bit for the better, but still far from a good world, but then again, I'm basically a cynic.