Fear of Gays

[cougar9q]

It has come to my attention that some of us are afraid and or simply do not identify as being homosexual.....

What the poll question is:

Do you think that gays have a right to marry?

I will give you my opinion later on.....


Monica
[cougar9q]


BTW......I encourage everyone to go to my website! I just finished remodeling it! Don't forget to sign my guestbook!

[Meresa]

Originally posted by cougar9q
It has come to my attention that some of us are afraid and or simply do not identify as being homosexual.....


I have nothing against gay people. I do not "fear" gay people. I like gay people just fine. I support the rights of gays to marry. However, I myself am not gay. Not that there's anythng wrong with that!

While I do have friends that are gay, I typically do not run in gay or lesbian circles. One I dont really have that much in comman with them. Two, being IS, I always felt like a second class citizen among them. (especially lesbians)

What I do take issue with is the untold amount of sh*t that I have gotten from certain individuals like Natasha (a former member here), Phyllis Frye, and other Zampolits of the PC Identity Politburo. Sh*t from them for identifying as straight, and not as GLBT-whatever or not socializing primarily in their circles.

It is not phobia. I have no fear of gays or anyone else. I am not going to reject anyone as a friend because they are GLBT-whatever. And I do not appreiciate being accused of being "phobic" or whatever simply because I personally identify as straight and move primarily in mainstream ("straight") circles. It is simply where I prefer to be, and it is where I am happy. And I am not going to apologize or be called names for it either.

Sorry for the rant. This refers mostly to people who are no longer here. Just had to get it out of my system. My apologies for offending anyone.



BTW......I encourage everyone to go to my website! I just finished remodeling it! Don't forget to sign my guestbook!

Interesting, but no pics of you. :confused:

Go Coogs!!

[Peter]

As I live in the SF Bay Area, I can attest to the profoundly postive energy that is in the atmosphere since SF mayor Gavin Newsom started gay marriages a few weeks ago. As this is the Left Coast, the last time that there was such a positive atmosphere was when the Florida Supreme Court looked for a few hours like they might count all of the votes in Florida, and Gore might become president. That was before the US Supreme Court stepped in.

This morning, a local newspaper ran a very long article comparing California's role in gay marriage to California's lead in permitting inter-racial marriage in this state in 1949. There are many interesting parallels.

I voted in favor of gay marriage in the poll above. I have to say that the polls done around here where 10 to 15 people vote on issues, are not necessarily going over too well in other quarters of the intersex community. On the last poll, where the "I" in "LGBT" was a big loser, members of ISNA and SF Human Rights activists where dismissive of the results when I told them. They responded that ISNA has done its own research on "LGBTI" and found that many intersex people support the alliance.

I am afaid that opinion polls taken out of context, with small sample sizes, and unscientific polling methods can lead to bad results. I am afraid that in this poll, straight intersex people who do not identify as gay, will use the poll to express frustration over their often being mistaken for gay, or other expectations that they be gay. Already, a post has brought up personal frustrations, which I do not believe resulted from the recent positive developments in the area of gay marriage.

I fear that if we do not stand up for gay civil rights, how can we expect the gay community to stand up for our intersex civil rights?

Enough ranting for now..... It's not good for my blood pressure.

Peter

[Meresa]

Originally posted by ptrinkl108
As I live in the SF Bay Area, I can attest to the profoundly postive energy that is in the atmosphere since SF mayor Gavin Newsom started gay marriages a few weeks ago. As this is the Left Coast, the last time that there was such a positive atmosphere was when the Florida Supreme Court looked for a few hours like they might count all of the votes in Florida, and Gore might become president. That was before the US Supreme Court stepped in.


Hey it's 2004 ok. All the votes were counted. Multiple times. Gore lost. Fair and square. Get over it already.


I voted in favor of gay marriage in the poll above.


So did I. I even argued in favor of it in front of a panel discussion at my church.


I fear that if we do not stand up for gay civil rights, how can we expect the gay community to stand up for our intersex civil rights?


The Gay community won't stand up for our rights. Never has. Never will. Regardless of how much we may support them, the so called "Gay Community" (more f*cking identity politics) is a fair weather friend at best. They will use our rights as sacrificial "chips" to be bargained away, just the way they did with TS rights.


Enough ranting for now..... It's not good for my blood pressure.


Yeah me too. This whole gay community issue is a major sore point with me, sorryaboutthat. Fortunately, I am able to lower my own blood pressure 10 points at will. (one of the benefits of freediving)

[Betsy]

They responded that ISNA has done its own research on "LGBTI" and found that many intersex people support the alliance.

I suspect whoever told you that may be misled. Who did they ask? A different 10 or 15 people?

Betsy

[cougar9q]

Hey,

Meresa, and all, actually my pic is at my site. It's on the contact page.....Keep in mind that picture is like three years old...I haven't taken any recent pic's yet...


Monica
[cougar9q]

[Peter]

Hi Meresa,

Your post and a strong cup of coffee really woke me up this morning. I am glad to see the voting going in favor of gay marriage. When I wrote my note, the issue was tied, and that caused me great distress.

I am glad to hear that you spoke up in favor of gay marriage at your church. I do not believe that anyone who does that can really be homophobic. I remember that once I was in psychotherapy with a lesbian psychiatrist, and was going on about my fears of being homophobic. She stopped me, and said that being who I am, that I am not homophobic, and that the term "homophobic" is thrown around way too often.

She went on to say that questions of sexual orientation are often difficult issues, and then made a crack that if changing one's sexual orientation were easy, that half the people in Berkeley would have changed their orientation to gay to be politically correct.

Peter

[Dana Gold]

I am hesitant to participate in this poll because I don't believe ANYBODY should have the say-so to determine whether anybody else should be "given"or "allowed" to have A right, as in marriage. I thought that Rights are supposed to be inherent and not "to be determined". To rely on public opinion (as in "may I please have my rights?) as to whether anybody should or shouldn't have rights is actually denying those rights before "giving" them. A right is different than a privilege and it seems that marriage has been and become a (legal and social) privilege.
This (current national issue) is just another example of the institution and social construct of what or who-ever-the f**k is determining who (or what group of people) cannot do and/or have something that the "majority"of ("socially acceptable") people have done and had for centuries. And this is not now talking about gay, TS, or IS rights....but human rights. What are people REALLY afraid of??
Past and current (competitive instead of cooperative) politics (law-making) as usual....termed "majority rule" where there is a winner; and a loser at the "bargaining table", and rarely a win-win situation.
I am thinking that maybe the question/poll would be more appropos as: should intersexed people (who don't "qualify" as male or female) have the right to marry?....AND present THAT to both the "straights" and GLB and see what happens!!... I say that because it is evident thathardly anybody in the GLB OR "straight" camp has given that some thought. (TS, I shall say, have thought of it). Both GLB and straight worlds seem quite selfish in that respect.
My rant is simple: Intersex people are the "low entity" on the political totem pole and have not yet been included in things that have and would affect us on a social level. I have no definte answer for this dilemma. But the solution to it is not to be found by segregating ourselves or being too dependant on either the "straight", GLB, or TS community, or by denying them their rights as they maybe have "bargained away" ours. Isn't there a "middle of the road" answer?
I also believe that any human being shouldn't have to politically identify with any "group" (except the human race) or ghetto-ize his/herself within a particular "community" in order to hold claims to their rights as a human being ....whether it be marriage, adequate medical care, or the pursuit of individual liberty. AND, how any one person interacts socially , whether in mainstream or within the "community" is a personal right and shouldn't be questioned or "determined" by another "camp" (as was done to Meresa).


What a joke: "fighting for one's rights" within a DEMOCRATIC SOCIETY that spouts "human rights" , yet denies them at society's most basic level. I guess democracy and human rights have been and become privileges also.

"Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action."
-George Washington

"Laws are like sausages, it is better not to see them being made."
-Otto von Bismark

[Meresa]

Very Cute ;)

Originally posted by cougar9q
Hey,

Meresa, and all, actually my pic is at my site. It's on the contact page.....Keep in mind that picture is like three years old...I haven't taken any recent pic's yet...


Monica
[cougar9q]

[lost]

WADDUP DAWGS !!!!!!!! hi every one ,,,,
I cant' participate in the poll , because I don't know why they are not being aloud to marry in the first place. So I can't say yes or no until I know why? There has to be a reason why the law says they can't marry. Doesn't there?

Plus I don't even understand the word "rights"......
are "rights" something we are born with as human beings ?
or are they something that is has to be earned or given ?


I don't think ya'll are ranting ............ You are just enjoy your freedom of speach :)
Let it all out ,,, it does no good inside ............

Have a super day all ,,,, I am... wwooooooooooohooooooooooo ,,, tell more later.

[cougar9q]

ditto... Dana Gold


Good point....I am thinking that is what I should have posted instead of the one that is up now. In the mean time, we will see how people will respond to this one.....

You raise a good point also Meresa concerning people trying to "force" us or anyone for that matter into a certain identity. It is very annoying and irritating when people make ignorant and narrow minded statements to force one a certain way. I hope that made sense.....



Monica
[cougar9q]

[Az1]

being IS I do not have a choice ,
all is , to be who they are just as we all do.

Muhoe
az1