the sexual spectrum

[cougar9q]

I just wanted to talk about something that has been discussed in many books that I have been reading and now I want to get feed back from the community...

Does anyone else agree that we should abolish the sexual dichotomy? I believe as others do that our society should create a certain levels of sexual identities to be recognized for each person. I am taken back to a couple of South Asian and even Mayan societies that recognized more than the "two sexes."

The problem or most difficult part about recognizing these obivious new "levels" is that we'll have to better define our current terminology.

For example I could not unless I wanted to to say that I am a lesbian. Lesbian- woman attracted to a woman. I am not solely a woman... I am sure you can sense the much confusion that this would bring.

Maybe we could encourage a new "Sexual Revolution" or even a renaissance......


Monica
[cougar9q]

[ptrinkl108]

Hi Monica,

As an intersex person, I wonder about intersex. For instance, due to a hip deformity at birth, and problems in correcting it, I have a massive scar on my left leg. But that scar is not what is really driving my interest in intersex issues. Also, it is not really my genital scars which drive my interest in intersex issues. I have a deep sense that somehow intersex people can really be somewhat different than the non-intersex people around them. I mean this in more than the sense of an interesting medical condition. In fact, cosmetic surgeries to "normalize" intersex children only obscure the issue, and probably don't make it go away in most cases. Intersex is a total body experience, not merely a genital experience.

I know that as a kid, I was seen by other kids as being extra-terrestrial. They called me names like "Freak", "Moon Goon", "My Favorite Martian" and the like. It was like this every day in the classroom.

So, what are the terms that we can apply to ourselves? For one, I like the term "intersex". As more education takes place about intersex issues, I think that people will increasing become aware of our existence. "Gender Queer" seems to be an up and coming term. Or, you can tell people that you are "Breaking The Gender Binary". It's a little long, but I think people will understand what you are talking about. I have heard the term "Blended" used in a positive manner. There is also the term "hermaphrodite", but that is falling out of favor as we enter a more scientific world.

You bring up a good issue, and I hope others will come forward with their own creative terms for interesex people who break the gender mold. On the other hand, there are probably intersex people who are happy with their gender, and don't see intersex as a gender issue for themselves. Just as not all intersex people are heterosexual, not all intersex people are gender queer.

Beyond terminology, I think that when you are with a woman that you really like, you will be able to discuss things in an open manner, and the terminology will become unimportant. You seem to be very self aware. A big problem that I had in the past, is that other people would want to discuss my being intersexed with me, and I was deeply buried in shame and secrecy.

Peter

[ptrinkl108]

.

[cougar9q]

Good thoughts Peter...

What I am meaning by breaking the "Sexual Binary System" is by using in which we are now "intersex" to blanket us as we march on for our rights.

But later on in the future once we get more solid ground, I feel that we should enhance our images.

Yes there will be people who will want to stay where they're at and that's fine. Yet what I am suggesting here is a whole re-work of the current system.

Intersexism just isn't about changing the scientific and medical world. The "reform" is about enlightening our society about who we are. Once we get society to "talk" or "know" about us then we're in. Change comes from the people and not the bureaucracies. If we influence the people we force the "systems of control" to recognize us... ie. The law, educational institutions and such. At the time being the law and even to an extent religion are working against us, and that needs to change.

So what I am suggesting is to set aside our umbrella after we get sold ground. This may take two, twenty, or two hundred years. So in the mean time as we fight now for our rights, we need to lay the foundations of our separate identities for future generations.


Monica
[cougar9q]

[Wyn]

Monica and Peter,

Very interesting posts. I agree that it will take GENERATIONS to achieve the results you look forward to Monica. I also agree with Peter in that having an intersexed condition is a WHOLE BODY experiance.

I have had those feelings (of 'otherness') myself for my whole life - it's just that I didn't know what they were for the first half. And, when I did initially 'find out', I had to dismiss them to insure my 'place' in the binary world.

Now that Mother Nature has taken her natural course, I find myself thrust into a maelstrom of 'otherness'. And, you know what? It's not all that bad! Just a little too lonely for me at the moment. However, in time I know that "This too shall pass".

In response to the original postings, I'd like to pursue another line of thought. One that places the concept of IS as the PREFERRED mode of being. Since you're anticipating the far future, I think that this approach carries much more wieght than simply making our existance known to the larger world community, and trying to intergrate with it.

Think about a society where EVERYBODY is similar (although in reality we are that now - just that we don't WANT to recognize it).
A world where Sexuality is NOT an issue - where everybody respects the other for who they are, and not about what gender they are.

Perhaps, even a place where ANYBODY can chose to be a father OR a mother, or to choose not.

I remember taking a test in my Science Fiction english course in high school. The question I forget, but my answer still rings in my head to this day. I had the audacity to suggest that, in the future, males would be religated to the biological trash heap, as our society becomes more mechanized and intergrated.

It seemed to me to be the logical progression given the course of our society and, it's use of technology, over the last number of generations. Unfortunately, our ability to create newer and more advanced technologies has FAR outstripped our ability to comprehend the ultimate result of our individually miniscule actions when using these very technologies, not to mention their effects on our changing society.

And this is particulary true regarding the social arena. We've created a society that is terribly disjointed in terms of spiritual, physical, and political identitification, and results in continuous strife and conflict. I think we need to recoginze these conflicts, in all their forms, as the 'growing pains' of a healthy and, hopefully, long lived advancement to a truly enlightened society. But, BOY, is it a Pain to get to that place!

This is where current involvement in the IS 'movement' is so critical. I personally feel that trying to FORCE general society to our way of (thinking?) will be an uphill battle (they CAN'T think like us!). However, to make them AWARE - both through non-violent means, but, even more importantly, through information and education - that their current actions regarding IS infants and children are totally and terribly wrong headed. And, since we are dealing with MEDICAL conditions, we need to emphasize the need - no, the DEMAND - for equal medical treatment. NOT the double standard that is in place today.

So, activisim is, and, always will be, the last resort that we as a group can take part in. And, I must also emphasize that our participation needn't take place only on the street. Activisim is most effective when discussing your personal condition with a friend or co-worker on an individual basis. I know that when I talked to my family and friends over the last few months, I have found generally a warm and welcome understanding of these conditions.

However, this approach is not to be undertaken lightly. As DANA has pointed out in another thread, there will be some who do not wish us well. It is well to take heed of inate caution.

Just the same, what Betsy did at the fast food establishment I thought was the BEST. Her assessment that this child, who was 'forced' to confront her own (and society's) binary preoccupation, is just a small 'step' in the IS community's desire to 'normalize' our existance in society as a whole, and what better way than through our youth.

It would be great if ISNA or BLO could somehow get this info out to the schoolage population - that IS is not bad or strange, but simply different - just as a child with spinal biffida or Down's are different.

I do know that when I have the opportunity, I'll be discussing my own condition with my four boys - as soon as the ex makes that possible. I had hoped to do this before I was forced to take her to court - being the vengeful person she is, I won't be talking to them for a while I suspect.

The recent article out of Austrialia regarding the intersexed half-siblings was a great start. I do think that they will still have a long road ahead of them, but children are extremely resiliant. They will learn how to work through the challenges they are sure to face. And, given the support at home, I think that they will THRIVE.

I hope in my heart that we can all do the same in our own way.

Wyn

[Jules]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Wyn

Very interesting posts. I agree that it will take GENERATIONS to achieve the results you look forward to Monica. I also agree with Peter in that having an intersexed condition is a WHOLE BODY experiance.

Even better:it is a condition of the mind that fully develops once a person is aware that they are intersexed.

Can you just think how diffirent our lives would be now if all of us still had no idea about our intersexed bodys and minds?


Very few people I think would be better off not knowing.

Even though that was a very tough day with a lot of tears, I Thank God for the day that I stole a look of my records and picturesand learned the truth
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
But later on in the future once we get more solid ground, I feel that we should enhance our images.

Yes there will be people who will want to stay where they're at and that's fine. Yet what I am suggesting here is a whole re-work of the current system.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree 100% someday we all neet to meet have have our first intersexed group meeting

[Glenn]

Peter said due to a hip deformity at birth, and problems in correcting it, I have a massive scar on my left leg
...that could have been my post as well.

As for the main issue - I agree wholeheartedly. A revolution is needed, and yes, it'll take a while.
But consider that 50 years ago black people had to use "colored" bathrooms and water fountains, and a century ago women couldn't vote. Cultural change takes time, then appears painfully obvious in hindsight (look at the US' view on south africa during apartheid, only a couple decades after we did the same thing).
Glenn

[Dana Gold]

This thread exempllfies the necessity for dialogue between IS and non-IS people so that some mutual realization and understanding is established. It may take some time; but it is perhaps more permanent in peoples' minds and hearts; and it can be passed on to future generations. The "old" do teach the "young" for that is how prejudice (and acceptance) is perpetuated.

So Intersex Awareness encompasses both the person's (IS) self-realization and self-affirmation AND the non-IS public's awareness of what being IS really is like....not what they may think it is: they need to know the "raw truth", not sugar-coated short biographies OR disconnected scientific analyses. For enlightening someone (or oneself!) means to reveal the truth while simultaneously dispelling mistruths.

As InterSex Awareness day is coming near; my personal activities will be concentrated within the University. Both because of the more "free-thinking" environment (as compared to non-academia) and for the sake of the young minds who live, learn and even work (labs) there. There will always be those who can't or won't understand, but, there seems to be less of that "factor" in school settings. A better chance to "enlighten" the young and achieve mutual and meaningful dialogue exists in schools, colleges, and universities. There one can speak both softly and passionately (referring to the "Power" thread) and be relatively unafraid. Give water and nutrition to growing plants....put the old ones "in the shade". And shout (lawfully) at the "weeds" who defiled (or plan to defile) our existences with scalpels, syringes, and secrecy (Hey! the poison of the 3 Ss ;)

Dana:D

[Az1]

Known as Berdache and Muhoe and other names that only whispered by souls who exist.

The North Native American people were known as the high priests and the medical professionals.
These people cured others and saw what others could not.
They were regarded as very high in culture.


Muhoe

Az1