Consent Contradiction

[Sophie338]

Hi All

There is this case in Austalia where someone who is diagnosed as Transsexual wants to turn from female to male. What makes this interesting to me is the age of the person concerned.

"Outgoing Family Court Chief Justice Alastair Nicholson has given legal
approval for the 13-year-old child, known as Alex, to begin a sex change
through hormone treatment."

Aparrentley there is a huge uproar about it.

You see I dont get it. They (The critics of this judgement) are bellyaching about Alex wanting this surgery, simply because they are 13, right? And yet they seem perfectly happy to surgically intervene and even hormonally intervene with children at a much younger age who neither seek or consent to it.

It seems odd that the "critics" can convolute transsexual and intersex when it suits,

(Such as when trying to lump everyone into gender ghettoes using pretty charts and lots of numbers)

but when push comes to shove, if it maximises the pain foir the individual suddenly they stop the convolutiong. and say...

"intersex people are "deformed" and must be corrected" When the intervention is often socially driven.

You see this illustrates something I find really awkward. More to do with issues surrounding consent that anything else.

The issues of Intersex people and transsexual people are clearly different. It is this business about social control that is making me think.

I am at a loss to understand this. Anyone have any opinions?

All the best

Sophie.

[Sophie338]

Just re read it and didnt clarify this, sorry :)

If what I said seems stupid I have worded it better. (I hope)


Why do they inflict surgery on Intersex children who dont ask for it and may well not want it?

And then refuse transsexual people surgery when they want it?

The inferrence is that society wants the right to control the individual's body, The individual has no rights?

Two seperate issues illustrating something rotten.

A similar example would be that of the right to die.

They say nothing about accidentally on purpose letting elderly relatives die because the family "cannot cope".

And then refuse to let someone who wishes to have thier own treatment for a terminal illnsess withdrawn because the pain is too much.

Two totally seperate but often convoluted issues again (Terminal illness, Age) illustrating the same inconsistency.

All the best

Sophie.

[miriam]

Doctor, my child has an intersex condition. Can you help ME?
Doctor, my child has a GID, can you help ME?

The so called parents-centered model.

Miriam

[Sophie338]

Hi Miriam :)

Yes I guess I shopuld have spotted it, my other examples hold the clue to this.

"They say nothing about accidentally on purpose letting elderly relatives die because the family "cannot cope".

Not the same situation by any means but a similar process of rendering the individual voiceless. Which is, when presented with all the contradictions, (not just those we are familiar with) seems to be a more widespread problem. The general medical ethics are messed up.

But is it always the family to blame?

So do you talk to the doctors, the parents, (We get both in support groups, which is why I am puzzling about it) or to the people who lay down "ethical" guidelines? (Who I have not met yet).

Another scary shift of thinking. Can we actually pin down the actual people who come up with abberative "ethics"?

I just wish I knew 100% where all this stuff was coming from.

All the best

Hugs :)

Sophie.

[Betsy]

Sophie:

Genderphobia.

Betsy

[just me]

Been following the news on Alex, Betsy.

It seems the voice of society wants to dictate whatever "it" feels is right. Like trying a thirteen year old as an adult for a murder, or holding them responsible for most other negatives. They are responsible then, but not if - and for, a positive. Only then are they deemed to young to make an informed decision.

JM

[Sophie338]

Hi JustMe (Welcome to the list :)

"It seems the voice of society wants to dictate whatever "it" feels is right"

Yes this is what is getting to me now I think what is bothering me is how it maximised the disadvantage to the individual. And while I started thinking in a broader context. Including examples from Transsexualism to Terminal Illness. When it comes to Gender and sex, for some reason it just gets out of hand.

I dont know if you saw it a few days back when some self professed "Expert" was telling us what our peoblems were and what his solution was. thing is he missed the point. Badly. To him it was all gender this and gender identity that. Which was for me (I cannot speak for anyone else) quite distressing.

For me it is an issue of my body having being violated and having being left with injuries. He just missed (Or ignored) the objections that were staring him in the face.

It is the same with all of it. some people just focus on the wrong things and leave us to deal with the consequences. It is just thast when you start seeing such stark double standards that are so one sided in favour of society. It gets very worrying.

All the best :)

Hugs

Sophie.

[Sophie338]

Hi Betsy :)

"Genderphobobia"

Pertty much. in a word, yes :)

All the best

Hugs

Sophie.

[just me]

Hi Sophie, and thanks for the welcome! :)

Society is a strange bedfellow, especially for us. "They" would rather we did not exist at all, and it is so strange. In history, we were the ones than ran treasuries, were in charge of the Kings palaces, and had a respected place in society. If fact, "eunics" were created, raised and trained, to fill those rolls if none were available in the general populace. No one complained about the attire - they could wear either male or female clothes, or who they went to bed with. In Christianity, the Bible mentions that "eunics" who hold close to the laws, would have a special place in the Kindgom of Heaven. If God and Heaven approves of us, recognizes who we are without suggesting anything other than holding close to His laws; then who or what is society to condemn, alter, change, create, name, mutilate, chemically enhance, remove parts from or otherwise treat us like it is our brains which are "wrong".

I do not know for sure, but believe that we are among the more intelligent of the populace. We certainly have to be much more mentally agile than the rest. Most of us were abused as children in the physical as well as mental - not only by those nearest to us, but by the professionals (more so) that were supposed to protect us. We had no privacy, no rights, no safe place. Fear was, and is, our basic operating emotion along with the accompanying anger. We were (are) objects, not people. In the fight or flight of life, we choose flight most of the time. Instead of taking what is ours, we plead for understanding. Try to inform and teach instead of saying that we are here, leave us alone, and learn to live with us. Getting laws passed that would keep surgery from being imposed. These are only my observatons of my life, and as such even though the "we" term is used, cannot come close to assuming the same for anyone else. It is my opinion however that this may be true.

Fear is what keeps me from taking back what is mine, setting bounderies, speaking out in a public setting, and in constant flight from the reality of who I am. Keeps me walking the path which was created for me. Not by God, but by man.

jm

[Sophie338]

Hi Just Me :)


You Said:

"If God and Heaven approves of us, recognizes who we are without suggesting anything other than holding close to His laws; then who or what is society to condemn, alter, change, create, name, mutilate, chemically enhance, remove parts from or otherwise treat us like it is our brains which are "wrong"."

That is a very good point, well certainly one that rings true with me. It always used to get to me when I was in a lot of physical pain thanks to the various "interventions" I never asked for. And people just kept harping on about "Social Integration" and "Gender role". I tended to find people who had an agenda the most offensive, as if they had this god given right to dictate who and what I was. While completely ignoring the physical pain I was in.

"Fear is what keeps me from taking back what is mine, setting bounderies, speaking out in a public setting, and in constant flight from the reality of who I am. Keeps me walking the path which was created for me. Not by God, but by man."

Well with me there was a time when I had a near breakdown,
Fear seemed to turn to anger when people were trying to make me feel ashamed, just for wanting to protect my integrity and just because of the way I ws born.

I finally reached the point where I refused to be an object or some lab rat. I found when I stopped believing all the horrible things said by those who wish to control our lives. I felt able to stand up to them. Society does not have a right to control our bodies and lives, Society may think they do, but they dont :)


All the best

Hugs :)

Sophie.

[just me]

Hiya Sophie,

"I finally reached the point where I refused to be an object or some lab rat. I found when I stopped believing all the horrible things said by those who wish to control our lives. I felt able to stand up to them. "

Being a combat veteran of one of the USA's military services, and having multiple sclerosis, hospital priviliges are allowed without cost at what is known as veterans hospitals here. When I first started to get treatment - about three years ago, for the MS and other problems (primarily mental), I put down into my records the interventions. The myriad (genotype) was also listed. In my primary examinations, there were no fewer than six "prostrate" digital probes performed, with none of them being listed as having been done. All were did to "see for themselves" that there was indeed a vaginal canal. Finally, a nurse in the Urology Dpt. where I was being treated for a kidney stone said she wanted to do one more. I refused, and told her the reason why. She said that she would make sure that no more were did, and that "this one" - digital prostrate check, would be listed. It really was the final time. Felt like they should have listed my name as "lad rat". There have been no more tests performed at all regarding my physical nature. Guess they got the idea that it would no longer be tolerated. The final indignation came however, when in my initial work up with my Psychiatrist - and my guard was let down, she listed my mental status as being near psychotic in regards to my feminine feelings etc... That has now changed. She talks to me now as a woman, and understands the monthly cycles etc. No one as yet will treat me for my osteopenia. Say that exercise and diet should be the priamry action to reverse it. That is fine, as long as I am physically able. The MS at time precludes that however.

Oh well, I have blathered on long enough. Thanks for listening Sophie and all...

just me......

[Girlyboy]

This has been a big story in Australia. I find the attatudes of the media very one sided and really poke into this person's life. Not nice at all.

[Dana Gold]

Alex's life will never be the same. He has been 'stripped naked" and exposed to the entire country. Wherever he goes, most all will know him (or target him) as a transsexual (or worse). Sadly, some "blokes" will regard him as "good for some laughs"

Terrible, terrible.:(

[just me]

Hi Sophie and all,

Just remembered a scripture passage from the Old Testament where God says "behold, I have created a new thing, a woman shall surround a man". How clear can it get... That is, unless you are a theologean or someone whom is not directly affected by an anomalous birth criterial.

Just me..

[Neil]

Hello,

I havent posted in a long time, but could respond here. I have an article..or legal document of Alex, the teen going through this procedure, his history and all the painful legalities he is facing now

Neilwww.freewebs.com/artistsonline/kaleidoscopealex.html (http://www.freewebs.com/artistsonline/kaleidoscopealex.html)