View Full Version : I am bi AIS condition or am I trangenderl(multiple-gender) intersex condition?
jaynez31
04-18-04, 02:35 AM
I kept secret of my feelings and only if I got some sort of feeling which I can not express to people in my area or some deep thought, I come back this discussion group to share my thought. Most of time I forget about my deep and true concern. Rather, I am involved and enjoyed my hobbies and interest like music, Datsun Z car club(yes, I have datsun 240z), or my job which keeps me so busy during weekdays.
I kept secret my feelings which I recently and deeply think about my gender issue. If I am bi-sexual with AIS condition or am I multiple gender (or transgender) with AIS condition? I am percieved and gender consistancy and gender role (at my job as a day care teacher) is female. However, I somewhat feel some week or days to be a female and attacted to male. And, some days of week, I feel like I am a male which attracted to female. It might be called multiple gender(personalty) syndrome with intersex condition? I might say "inter-gender expression/feeling/conflict who is intersex condition?
jaynez31
Hi Jaynez31,
I am glad to hear that you like cars. I am a big fan of hobbies. I play guitar. I also hand-ground the mirror to my own home-made telescope and enjoy star-gazing.
I really identify with your second paragraph. I have spent years surfing the mental waves of multiple identities. I am increasingly centering my identity on being intersex, and have stopped (at least tried) worrying about whether I am gay, bi, or straight. As to whether I am male or female, I am increasingly thinking that it is ok to be "blended". I sometimes stare at the ceiling and wonder if I am a lesbian. I once had a roommate who perceptively thought that I might be bi or gay, and felt sorry for me because I was not having any fun. My parents spent so much time repressing me that the word fun does not really exist in my vocabulary.
I have not been in a relationship in over twenty years, and think that people who are in relationships belong to another species. I am pretty set in my ways and don't see myself entering into a relationship. I wish that I had grown up in a world more accepting of intersex people, and other people with complex identities, and that I had developed in a way that allowed for relationships.
Peter
Hi Jaynez31, and Peter ;)
Welcome, if I have not bid you hello.
I want to respond to this sentence.
However, I somewhat feel some weeks or days to be a female and attracted to male. And, some days of week, I feel like I am a male, which is attracted to female.
It might be called multiple gender (personality) syndrome with intersex condition? I might say "inter-gender expression/feeling/conflict who is intersex condition?
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I look at my gender as being something that belongs outside of myself. To say I’m anything but "Julanne", sounds at first, silly to me. But when I look a the core of myself I see that my identity ties into my surroundings, in such, that I think it is anybodys right to view me as they please and it is my given right to few myself as well, anyway I please.
I respond to energy that people around me give out when I am around them. Many men that I work with, help me feel like I am a woman. It is in the way they see my gender as A woman and therefore respond to me in such a way as to bring out the feelings of being a female. When I am around a very pretty girl she can as well make me feel female if she competes with me in anyway. But, if she gives off sexual energy, which I pick up on, even if she does not know she is giving it, I feel very submissive and feel that very same phenomenon you call multiple gender personality. I feel male.
If I am with men who are not treating me like a woman, but are treating me like one of the guys, then I too feel a connection with what I would call my maleness. Did I feel this way, before I knew I had been intersexed at birth? No. But what I did feel is that I could identify with a lot of people male and female on many different levels. It felt like my personality with different people could go from one extreme to another. I explained it away to myself by believing that I was a very deep thinker, much deeper then most people and therefore different then other people. I would however say that it is no longer a conflict. I learned I was intersexed, I became okay with it. At least the biggest questions got answered, in my life anyway. I just find it interesting to talk about.
I try not to forget that other people do find it tough to deal with, learning about intersex, their intersex, and the early surgeries that takes away something intersex individuals never get back.
You make very valid statements Jaynez, about how intersex feels, even from my eyes.
:)
first hi and welcome to the group , i havn't posted in a while , what jules said is how i feel , a closeness to what ever my surroundings are , but i do feel that my female side is a lesbian and the male straight , but have a foundness for IS people , one online person called me hermaphrosexual ... did get me pissed , but in a way understand it ...beach
Folks, this is Beach. Beach is one of the first members of BLO that really gave me a warm welcome, when I joined BLO less then two years ago. Beach is one of the people whom I most closely identified with as intersexed. How glad I am to see you posting. Beach, things are going well for me, I’m sure we will catch up, we are like two trains that buzz by each other at 100mph.
To get back to the topic, yes, your statement, “closeness to my surroundings" sums it up well. My sence of gender is largely a outside influence.
But I must ask you metaphorically, being of male and female nature, and given the subjectivity of being intersexed, Is the female side of you, the straight lesbian, or is the lesbian side of you the male? :eek: ;) :D
I do miss you:(
cougar9q
04-19-04, 12:08 AM
Hello and Welcome!
I am glad that you have come here to seek our opinions. I don't have any answers for you pertaining your questions, but I do have ideas. Lets imagine that the human sexual spectrum is that women are Red and that Men are violet. Think of the rainbow. ROY G. BIV
Red
Orange
Yellow
Green
Indigo
Violet
In our world mostly Red's and Violet's are believed to exist in the mainstream. If one is not either color, one is encouraged if not harassed to choose a side, and that's what I think that is what many of us have to "deal' with everyday.
It's not enough to say that I'm Red. Red is only a 2-D figure. Red does not even tell you if that "woman" likes men or women, or both. For lack of a better word, our "sexual preference" is defined as the opposite of your "color." So if you're Violet then you should be sexually attracted to Violet, according to the beliefs of society. So the colors Orange through Indigo are pretty much in limbo, or threaten this dichotomy.
I hope that I haven't lost you or confused you too much. So what I am trying to say is that once you better define those colors in between Red and Violet the better you can be able to define yourself if you choose so.
Homosexuality and intersexuality. In my opinion homosexuality, bisexuality and heterosexuality are too limiting. These definitions do exist but are too narrow to define everyone.
It's like saying there that the only birds that exist in the world are only parrots and finches. We that that is a total lie. There chickens, and toucan and etc.
So what I am saying to not give in into these strict and narrow world of words. Words are just words. You are simply and most importantly are just you.
Anyway let me know what you think..
Monica
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It's like saying there that the only birds that exist in the world are only parrots and finches. We that that is a total lie. There chickens, and toucan and etc
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Err, I think I understand.
Did you know that with some birds, you cannot tell the males from the females without a blood test. How do those birds know who to mate with? :o And if a bird was gay, streight, bisexual, or a lesbain how would you know, If you were another bird?:D
Can you think of a reality, where the only way to prove you were the opposite sex was with a blood test :D:
Monica wrote:
"So if you're Violet then you should be sexually attracted to Violet, according to the beliefs of society."
I am not sure that the wider society believes this, but it is a beautiful sentiment, and an example that intersex people often think differently than most "straight" people.
Peter
What If I told you I'm blue today, but violet tommorow, and my friends view me as pink no matter what I think or what day it is?
I may love red sexualy, but get along with orange and yellow the best, so it is better in reality to only love red from far away.
Also, I'm a red myself but had a sex change at birth so I look like a pink, so I gave it up fighting my redness a long time ago and said o.k I'm pink.
Then I saw my births pictures and learned I was red all along!
but I'm still pink:confused:
cougar9q
04-19-04, 12:51 AM
I meant to say....
"So if you're Violet then you should be sexually attracted to Red " and not Violet...
The colors simply identitfy the "gender or maybe sex" of the individual and not their sexual orientation....
These narrow constructs of society are simply focusing on one website on the net, while it ignores the rest of the web.
Monica
cougar9q
04-19-04, 12:54 AM
I guess T would be a Green that is mostly attracted to the colors to the left of me... ROY G. BIV
Monica
thank you jules for giving me a great big smile today.i miss you too.and metaphorically speaking "YES" beach
jaynez31
04-19-04, 02:58 AM
Quate,
"if she gives off sexual energy, which I pick up on, even if she does not know she is giving it, I feel very submissive and feel that very same phenomenon you call multiple gender personality. I feel male."
I think my working envorment and social life are quite uniqe even I live near San Francisco. Most of my 300 co-workers (mostly who are wives of active duty personnel) are female except one male (flight chief) and one male cleark within my organization. The organization is part of one of the major squadrons in the air mobility command, one of large air mobility commands in the Air force. So, I am part of military personnel where gender role is strict even who are cilivian employees. So, if you are gay and lesbian, you will lose a job even if it is rumor or speculation. I remember one of the co-worker was rumured as a lesbian, then she resigned her job. So, I have to be consistent and given female gender role I have to follow.
Despite fact that, such strict or close mineded organization(don't tell don't ask policy), but I am not sure about a person with intersex condition in terms of the military civilian personnel policy, Anyway, occasionally, I feel sexual energy from female airman(airwomen) occasionally during some social events, hobby shop, or at the fitness center where I spend many hours now a day. This base is also have an air terminal(military air port) for all branch of the military personnels, and there are many people from Army, Navy, Marine, and Coast gurds coming and going. Maybe, I am expecting such energy from female personnel? But mostly such energys from male personnels. What's heck. However, most people(co-workers, some friends, association, and some my social network) assume me that I have boyfriends and kids, (I told them I devoced and have kids) and most my co-workers and associates think that is what normal American way of life.
I know I am little bit manbling,
I can relate to a lot of the confusion you expressed. I'm nominally male, but never had the raging hormones which I'm told are "normal." Just enough to give the physical appearance, minus the macho.
So I've had many interests which are traditionally feminine (sewing, cooking, even studied midwifery for two years!), and many people (including my wife :rolleyes: ) question my sexual preference.
I'm getting to the point of not caring about the male/female labels, even though I have to play along with some of the traditional male roles in order to support my family.
Glenn
P.S. And on Monica's color spectrum, I'm brown. :cool: Did I mention I'm somewhat color blind?
To make it sound more ,aehm, scientific we could call it *gender and sexuality not otherwise specified* :rolleyes:
Sof i e
Dana Gold
04-19-04, 04:08 PM
Hi Jaynez31,
your quote:
"It might be called multiple gender(personalty) syndrome with intersex condition?"
You are looking at yourself through established notions (conceived by "normal" originators) of who and what you are. Che sara, sara means : whatever will be, will be. We spend too much time ( I certainly have) analyzing ourselves and comparing our situation (gender) to a reference point ( normalcy, bi-gender ) that is flawed in its essence and discriminatory in its interpretation. Synthesis accepts and acknowledges the essential nature of what is: I believe that there is no such thing (in Nature) as "pure" male or female; either in sex or gender....some may profess to be; but that is a social construct. My "home" gender is female; but it varies slightly, having lived the majority of my life as male. Thus some aspects of male behaviour were infused into me (socialization). I can be very female at times and male also (although I don't like it ). Sexually, I respond as female, but I am not "active". We ourselves, I think, have a "home"; but socialization has created some of the "blend" you talk about....the other aspect of the "blend" is our own intrinsic fluidity. Both create another blend. Very confusing!!. The truth of any of ourselves rests within....look there for who and what you are....the outside (normal society) is a "manufactured" illusion.
The inner turmoil or questioning of ourselves is created by society that expects us to be what is "offered" to or forced upon us VERSUS who we really are....be it one gender or the other, or even a blend of the two....which some people have termed inter-gendered.
Perhaps you are just coming to terms with yourself and need to "process" (within you) the reality of yourself. I wish to share this poem I wrote (and posted earlier)...perhaps, it may be helpful in your search for self.
Onto the Path
To ask me at present who I’d reckon to be,
after living in darkness, not easy to see,
awakening from long sleep and coming to earth,
I have been lately in a rebirth.
To ask a teenager, “Hon, where are you going?”
“I don’t know exactly, I’m still young and am growing.”
Together with body and mind she’ll mature
into adulthood, her defining more sure.
I feel the same, I’m still learning of me.
Coming to terms, more of my truth I can see.
I sense it’s a process just as we all come to know.
From earliest childhood to adult it will show.
So I can say this as to where I now stand:
I have in this moment a much steadier hand.
I am bidding farewell to the life I have lead.
But still close to the things in my heart and my head.
Some differences of mind and habits do sway.
These also have been there all up to this day.
Casting off years of transient existence,
consciously following my inner insistence.
To reveal the youngster that never grew up,
replaced since that time with something made up.
I hope my new life will forever continue.
No more hatred and fear and a beautiful venue.
Composed: 4/30/01
Dana
All these categories like gender, sexual orientation, genetic setup, won't make my live any easier.
Does being gay mean you can't fall in love with a woman? Can lesbians not fall in love with a man? Or a transsexual?
I believe you can fall in love with many different persons. Regardless their gender, skincolor, weight, age or whatever. Sometimes you won't even know your are in love before the other one is gone and you are alone again.
Sofie
cougar9q
04-21-04, 10:17 AM
You gotta good point there Sofie!
just me
04-21-04, 12:21 PM
Hi all,
Ummm, my emotions are kinda runnnning on high right now. So much of what has been said is so true in my life. Only here, have they been expressed by others. Thank you all.
My "facade" is male... My "me", female. I have the tissues to respond as both. One is - and has been, deeply repressed out of the panic it brings about. That, is the female side. Am I confused? your darn xxxy tootin' I am. I am torn apart inside most of the time.
just me
Dana Gold
04-21-04, 01:08 PM
It is a truism that we are raised and live in this world wherein we are socially educated and controlled by the concept of genito-centricism.
It took a long time, but I have finally purged myself of the inane concept that gender is defined by what's between the legs. Take the case of any intersexed persons who have been surgically and/or hormonally altered and psychologically "indoctrinated" toward male or female and later realize that is not in accord with what is "between the ears". It is now clear to me that a resultant travesty and false assessment of those persons is made when henceforth medically/psychologically they are "diagnosed" as having "gender identity disorder" or self-identity conflict issues. In reality, that "disorder" and/or conflict was created by the very same "interventions" (whether medical and/or psychological) that was meant to prevent them. What a paradox!! The cure actually being the cause of the "disorder". And the "shroud" of shame and secrecy which exacerbates the already existing confusion and unhappiness. Unfortunately if and when one is able to (finally) find out the truth, that realization does not alleviate matters, for the damage has already been done and the person is left to agonize over his or her life situation with anxiety, depression, and anger being constant companions while trying to "sort things out". Often we may end up questioning our very sanity and/or beating up on ourselves for the way we came into this world and were treated/altered; for something that we had no control over.
I respect and admire those here on BLO for their courage, insight and coping mechanisms for having carved out and maintained their own reality after having theirs altered. I have learned a lot, and I share that very same thing with you and others, who are now experiencing inner turmoil. The cause of your pain and confusion cannot be the foundation and "medicine" for your future....like Sofie said:
"All these categories like gender, sexual orientation, genetic setup, won't make my live any easier."
She's right; they only make it worse.
Dana
Ms Dana said:
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I believe that there is no such thing (in Nature) as "pure" male or female; either in sex or gender....
Jules says: Well, that is true statement about myself, but I have a double standard for non-intersexed persons. Some people like you say,have a hermaphroditic mind and persona, even if they are not intersexed. These people ca identify with the feelings of being male or female or blended depending on the people they are around. Some people though, are so into the social construct of the male and female rolls that they are like robots.
They have no idea that anything is realy outside of the social construct.
Some may profess to be; but that is a social construct.
Jules says: It is all a social construct, but think about how people we know and remember, have made us feel. We aim our hearts to the warmth of those feelings. Remembering that people we loved at one time helped me shape my first of identities, that is my home base of gender. It is fair to say, I think that if you feel male or female you want to be around people bring out those feelings.
People validate your feelings. People who see your gender as such as you feel it, when you are around them, become your-self as male or female. Other things like music, which might remind you of feelings you might have for someone, can also effect how you feel about your gender. ( Example:Hearing a love song about your girlfriend whome you feel boyish around)
Your clothes: People have feelings about the male or female clothing they might wear. Example: Jeans, might make me feel tomboyish(But, people treat me that way in jeans) A dress makes me feel girlish. (But, I get treated like a princess in a dress)
My "home" gender is female; but it varies slightly, having lived the majority of my life as male. Thus some aspects of male behaviour were infused into me (socialization). I can be very female at times and male also (although I don't like it ).
Jules says:
So what you might be saying is most people help you feel female, but some things, or people, remind you of your maleness, which the feelings of you don't like, I can understand.
Sexually, I respond as female, but I am not "active".
Jules says: You mean today?
Well there is always tommorow:D
I think that feelings towards male/female gender issues can be complex for intersex children. I remember when I was about five years old, and thinking about reproduction. I knew that I was intersexed. I was clearly aware that my vagina had been "stolen" from me by doctors. I clearly had the sense that something evil had happened. I lived in a binary world where on one side my parents and their doctors were into total denial, and on the other side were me, my brother, and other kids at school who my brother talked to, who were very aware of my being intersexed. It seems to me that the shame and secrecy are mostly there to serve the parents, and it hurts intersex kids.
I was raised male, and very much wanted to fit in with the world around me. My being rejected by other kids was very difficult for me. To this day, I feel that I often have to walk around in a low key manner, because if I show any emotion of happiness, it could be dangerous on the streets for me. One can not burn too brightly. Several times a week, when I am in public, I notice that there are jerks around who are pissed off by my presence. The problem with a macho world, is that one can never be macho enough, and it seems that many men are constantly trying to be tougher and tougher. It's a vicious cycle.
Peter
Peter said:
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If I show any emotion of happiness, it could be dangerous on the streets for me.
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Aristotle, the greatest philosopher of all time, defines happiness as functioning well in the world. The function of all humans’ beings male or female, according to Aristotle, is their capacity to reason.
Example: Courageous people use reason to control fear. Everybody can use reasoning to his or her advantage. Properly used, reason will always direct us to a course of moderation between two extremes.
When it comes to happiness, I think that we all must have our hopes and fears balanced. To be afraid to be happy seems to be a way of hold on to a extreme of fear. Happiness is a means that all people should thrive for. You must although, be in-between, in your virtues.
Example: Facing death
1 to much fear is cowardice Excess (vice)
2 The right amount of fear is Courage (Means)
3 to little fear: Foolhardiness (Deficit)
Claming Honors
1 Vice (excess) Vanity
2Virtue (Means) Pride
3 Vice (Deficit) Humility
Every rational activity aims at some end or good. To reach a state of happiness, in a world that can be cruel or kind and it subjective to the person living it one should try to pick the means of a virtue for it’s self.
How true it is that I was picked on as well in school, I did not fit in, and struggled with intersexed, not knowing what I was struggling with most of my life
Sure I could be mad about the shame I had as a kid. I have choices though. All of my choices fall within the range of two extremes. I understand that I pick the middle road. That middle ground may be tough to stay on, but it is what keeps me functioning well in the world, and I’m relatively happy.
Dana Gold
04-22-04, 08:20 PM
Not to downplay Jules post of managing fear.....but how does one manage displayed aggression and potentially violent "Gorillas in the Mist" such as described by Peter!? How does one manage the "psychological scars" left by situations like that, whether having been just threatened or actually assaulted? Maybe this might be better to discuss under another thread if it continues from my post.
Dana
Thanks Jules and Dana for your responses. I usually manage my emotions pretty well, but I am very glad that I can post what I am feeling on this forum and get such positive and thoughtful responses. In the months since I started posting on this site, I feel that I have made great improvements in my overall mental health. Whereas before, I had been depressed for most of my life, I now feel like some of the depression is lifting. There are some days when I feel, dare I say it, happy. Your responses put a smile on my face.
Peter
Dana Gold
04-23-04, 03:41 PM
You're welcome, Peter,
I'm better now, too, but I have to be aware of events I experience and/ or things I see or read that trigger still latent (like an inactive volcano) feelings that bring on anxiety and/or depression or anger. Reading the recent post by Betsy that told the life of Petra left me feeling sad...she lived a nightmare in her early years....it is during such times that I like what Jules has to say about emotions: like walking room to room in a house.....time to go from the "dark" living room to the "sunny" patio.
Take care.
I'm glad that you post on this site Peter, There are so many people who have posted and gone or just post and post and post regardless of if there posts realy have merit. In fact some of the posters I even question if they are reay intersexed. I realy think that your posts have value. You realy set a standard for what good support is:)
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