Thank you for being online!

[maxkwak]

I recently found your web site and was blown away. I'm 52 years old and have always thought that I was one of a kind!

I'm a low-level PAIS, born with small penis and non-descended testicles. The family doctor wasn't quite sure what to make of me, but listed me as male. I had two surgeries on my urethra as a small child, but don't know what was done exactly (I do remember it hurt!). At puberty, I developed fully as a female: wide hips, full breasts, no beard, no voice change. My life was hell trying to live as a male, and there was no way I could pass as a female. I was a freak, and bound my chest everyday with Ace bandages and wore layers of clothing to hide my body.

I began taking oral testosterone and physically responded to some degree. My genitals actually grew to normal size, testicles descended, and years later I eventually had a very bad surgery to remove my breasts (those were the days before liposuction and there were complications). I'm now very scarred.

Emotionally, in my heart of hearts, I feel androgenous. My physical history has made me fundamentally different from both males and females in the usual sense. I tired gay relationships and heterosexual relationships, but felt uncomfortable about my body, despite the changes that it has gone through (i.e. hormones, surgery). So, I've lived with no intimate relationships in my life, always hiding what I was. Despite it all, however, I am actually one of the happiest people I know when I look around me! I'm content with who I am, even without intimate relationships. I do have many friends, primarily straight females and gay males, but not one of them know my history.

So, fellow readers, am I completely nuts? Has anyone else experienced this kind of life of hiding, or is that unique to my circumstances and my generation?

[ptrinkl108]

Hi Maxkwak,

Welcome to Bodies Like Ours. Your phrase on feeling "one of a kind" is something that I often felt in the past. I can assure you that you are not alone. In my own case, I was wrapped up in many layers of denial and shame about being intersex. It never occurred to me, until I saw programs about intersex issues on a couple of television talk shows, that there were other people facing issues very similar to the issues that I face. Eventually, after doing weeks of on-line searches on "hermaprodite" and later "intersex", I was able to take steps towards contacting ISNA, and then joining this forum. I think that sometimes, at a certain age, people lose the illusions that sustained them through early adulthood. It's something of a chicken and egg problem. It was only after I started to let go of my illusions, that I was able to search for answers. The answers also help me break down illusions.
Also, I have noticed that when I am open with my non-interesex friends about being intersex, that it improves my friendships. People always knew that I was in denial. They were just confused about what I was denying. After giving some careful thought to which friends you could tell, you might try being open about being intersex with some of them. As it sounds from your post that you generally have supportive friends, you might be surprised and relieved by the positive reaction that you would probably get from most of your friends. Realistically, you might loose a couple of friends, but hey, they were not worth having as friends if they can not accept you as intersex.

Peter

[maxkwak]

Hi, Peter!

Thank you very much for your thoughts. Your wisdom indicates that you have grown tremendously. I think I'm about to do the same. I'm just now starting to explore. Learning that there is a name for someone like us and that I'm not alone is liberating in itself, and it strengthens me.

The thought of telling other people about my intersexuality raises an interesting consideration. Thus far in my life, I haven't even had the courage to tell my doctors, and certainly not my friends! I've lied whenever doctors asked me about my scarred chest (breast removal surgery), and my friends have never seen it. Trying to hide has made for a strange life with keeping relationships at arm's length. Hearing from you and finding this site has really made a difference already. I think I will be able to talk about it to someone sometime, now that I have a name for it.

I'm not familiar with ISNA---only this web site---but I'll try to find it. Thank you very much for taking the time to answer my posting. It means a lot.

Mike

[ptrinkl108]

Warning: Contains Sexually Explicit Language

Hi Mike,

Thanks for your response. I am not sure that I have gained any great wisdom, but I do know that I am intersex in a way that I did not know in the past. I got this knowlege from hanging around this Bodies website and finding other people with stories like mine. I always knew, from the earliest age about my infant genital surgery. So, at the age of about four or five, when I started thinking about gender, I had lots of extra physical issues that many other people don't face. It's not that I was raised as one sex and then suddenly switched to another sex. I was always raised as a boy. I don't advocate a third gender, (hey why get caught up in another numbers game), but I do believe that I had something of a non-traditional approach to gender issues. So, I have always been very sympathetic to people who say that they feel gender ambiguity.
I find it very interesting that you tried both gay and straight sex partners, but did not really feel comfortable in either situation. I too have had sex with both men and women to the point of ejaculation, but have never found any pleasure in sex. When I try to talk to people about my views that ejaculation and orgasm are different, people just stare at me in disbelief. I have had some private exchanges with another member of this forum about this, and am beginning to believe that there is a strong possibility that I am in some sense a transsexual person based upon my past history. The lack of pleasure might be the result of a brain that is not aligned with my body. Of course, being born intersex raises the strong possibility that no matter which sex I was surgically assigned, it would always be "wrong". I know that current medical thinking holds that only in a small number of cases are intersex children surgically assigned the "wrong" sex. My sense of "wrong" is much broader, and holds that all surgical assignment of a "normalized" sex to an intersex child is "wrong". My belief in this broader sense of "wrong" grows everyday as I learn more and more about the psychological trauma that other intersex people often experience.
My life might have followed a path somewhat similar to yours. First, in my early twenties, I tried having girl-friends. Then, in my early thirties, I tried having boy-friends. I was more attracted to women then men, but I was open to sexual exploration. Many creative aspects of sex are not neatly gendered around "pole in the hole" sexuality, so I am all for creative sex. I have not heard much discussion of the non-gendered aspects of sex. So, through some private exchanges with another Bodies member, I have been learning of the possibility that my brain is in some sense transsexual. I sit around and ponder such questions as to whether it is possible to be both attracted to women and MTF (Or in my case ITF). BTW, I don't think that having shown an early interest in dolls and the like is a real measure of transsexuality, except in the most conventional sense. Then again, surgery does not make much sense to me, as I have already been severely tramatized by infant genital surgery. I really wish that Miriam's recent spell "sex, sex, sex...." had ended this repressive order of things.
Another thing that I found interesting in your post, is that you mentioned the people you hang out with. I always find this an interesting aspect of other people. You said that you hang out with straight women and gay men. I can understand avoiding straight men. In my own case, except at work, I generally do not hang out with straight men, straight women, or gay men. My crowd is alot smaller. I never planned it that way, it's just the way it turned out over the last several decades.

Peter

[maxkwak]

Hi, Peter

You are the only other intersex person I have ever encountered, and I'm amazed at some of the similarities between us. I had two eurethra surgeries when I was small. One was to create or enlarge the opening, because I think I peed southward or something like that, and the other was to stretch it. I didn't have a phalloplasty of any kind. While taking hormones, my penis actually grew to a normal size, my voice changed and today I have a very slight beard (don't have to use shaving cream when I shave, however). As I mentioned before, my breasts were removed in a very botched surgery. After all of that, however, I still feel like the same person I used to be with a female body and a penis. I guess is my secret identity, and who I really am inside.

The concept of transsexuality is interesting. I was not happy with my full female attributes, so I changed it. I don't feel fully like a man now, however, but more like a person who changed genders and is struggling to live up to it. I think that's different from being a transsexual. On the other hand, maybe that is a transsexual quality of my brain, too.

I don't know how I ended up with so many women friends, except that I'm a "safe" male to be with. I don't have a problem with straight men, but I find it difficult to relate to them sometimes. I'm actually pretty much a loaner most of the time. I have an elderly friend who couldn't afford to live alone in retirement, so we pooled our funds and bought a place in a retirement community, although I'm technically not old enough to live here yet. I've known him 30 years. He's gay and he thinks I'm a strange gay person who has never had sex with anyone in ther three decades that he's known me. I've never told him about being an intersex person. Since we do not have a sexual relationship, I don't know if I ever will (I wouldn't want to give the old guy a heart attack!).

Orgasms are not common for me, but I am capable of having them either as ejaculatory (male?) or spasmotic (female?), but rarely both simultaneously. I don't have much of a sex drive.

Mike

[ptrinkl108]

Hi Mike,

I am also impressed with some of the similarities. I think what happens is that we are socialized to feel that we are the only person in the world who is intersex and that there have only been a few rare intersex people in the past. So, when we meet other intersex people either online or in person, the similarites stand out because the shame and repression around being intersex give us a common background - a background that many political opponents of intersex rights would like to deny.
One similarity that stands out is that you mentioned living in a retirement community and sharing your residence with a gay man. I understand that you are not sexually active. I feel that you almost read my mind. I often worry about what will happen to me in retirement. I feel very disconnected from the social world around me. Although I will probably wind up in a run down hotel room, I have fantasies of being part of a gay retirement community when I get older. I have even mentally rehearsed my answers to interview questions for when I apply. "You see, I am intersex and I believe that I would be a good member of your retirement community". and so on. So when you brought up living as an intersex man in a retirement community, it meant much to me. I would like to hear more.
What is great about Bodies is that so many people get to share their intersex experiences online. This forum is really a remarkable gift to all of us.

Peter

[maxkwak]

Hi, Peter

I want you to know how much you've inspired me to face up to who I am, and to thank you, Peter, for suggesting that I try telling a friend! For the first time in my life, I told a friend of many years about my being intersex, and how I spent my life trying to hide it. The person is a straight female. Her response was that she was touched that I confided in her! I don't think a non-intersex person can possibly understand the difficulties that arise in trying to hide one's body all the time, but I appreciated her kind response. We went on to discuss how much our nipples hurt when our breasts began to grow!

I sure understand your feeling apart from society. I'm that way very much. I usually do alright around one or two people, but I don't do well in groups or at social gatherings. I'm different in so many ways, it seems --- life experiences, attitudes, world views ---I just don't fit in. Others sense it, too, and generally don't invite me anyway. I have very few friends and spend most of my time alone. Nevertheless, I'm probably the happiest person I know overall.

As far as retirement goes, I don't think there's any reason a person should end up alone in a hotel room, unless that's what the person happens to want. Life always seems to take care of itself, and opportunities arise when they're least expected. I don't think an intersex person would have any problem at all getting into a gay retirement community. The retirement community where I live seems to be all heterosexual. Coupled with the age difference, I don't have much in common with most people. However, on a basic human level, I occasionally find others to talk with superficially in passing. I don't participate in any of the social events.

Living here with an elderly gay man, I suspect most neighbors view the two of us as a gay couple, despite the differences in our ages. Learning that I'm intersex and not sexually active would probably cause a few pacemakers to freeze up!

Mike