Mom of a "true hermaphrodite"

[prince....ss?]

Hello Pam,

I think it’s great what your doing and God bless you for your love and affection to this child. I know you will be wonderful parents.

What I don’t understand and this make me very angry, is why was this child “fixed” in the first place? I wish they would quit assigning and reassigning sexes of innocent children without their consent.

I wish I could kidnap one of these doctors and have some black market surgeon reassign their sex and see how they like it…

Pam sorry but they did the same to me, I’m 46xy reassigned to female at 11 days old. So I hold no blame to you or your family it just angers me that this behavior is still going on.

[Dianne]

Originally Posted by prince....ss?

... reassigned to female at 11 days old ...

I was somewhere between 5 weeks and 5 months of age when I was assigned male by the charity hospital where I was left for adoption. Too bad they guessed wrong!

[chuzzlewit63]

What a great community you all have here. It gives me hope that there will be people around to support Sara when I am old and gray.

We went and visited her foster mother yesterday (1st time since we took custody of her one year ago). This was the mom who stayed with Sara during her surgical ordeal. We talked some about it and she told me it really was the birth mom who decided (even though her parental rights were in the process of being terminated).

Apparently the family court judge was informed by the doctors that a decision (any decision) had to be made and quick. She was about 16 mos at the time of the surgery. Originally (I didn't know this until yesterday), the doctors thought she should be male because of what they referred to as her "impressive phallus." Essentially, according to foster mom, her penis looked normal.

But, mom (birth mom), wanted a girl, so she got a girl...or sort of... It was too late by the time we even knew about her.

Mark and I have been talking a lot about this and I think the plan is to tell her (from the start), that there are boys and girls and people that have some boy and girl in them. Before she is old enough to understand her particular biology, I think we'll talk about how nothing in gender is all that clear cut. We'll talk about how people can be boy/girl/ part boy-part girl and none of us know exactly what we'll feel like when we are grown.

My older daughter (biological) was always told that she might be gay or straight and noone knows and noone cares. It was interesting hear her discuss that with her friends here in the Bible Belt.

Have you all ever known anyone at all who was happy they had the surgery?

Thanks for all your kind words and support.

Pam

[prince....ss?]

Wow!!! That is an incredible story.

Pam, honestly I could not tell you if I were happy or not with my surgery. This is all I have ever known and who knows what my life would have been like if I were not surgically reassigned.

I did not find out about my condition until I was 42 years old. I spent my life trying to prove that I was a real woman but never understood why it was not working. Now that I know the truth life is much better. I understand that I am not a woman or a man I am just me.

In response to Dianne, with me they did not get it wrong. By putting me under the knife they just took away the possibility of being one of the two, man or woman. The surgery created a neither and that is also my gender, neither not both. I have no desire to be a man or a woman. I live as a woman in public because that is what they labeled me and I have no desire to fight windmills. This is the hand I was dealt so I will live with it.

FYI, Pam, Before I requested my medical records I had a strong suspicion that I was a hermaphrodite. Now keep in mind that doctors and husband have seen me and never suspected anything different ( I guess the doctors did a good job) But still I knew. So I suspect that as your child grows she will instinctively know just how different she really is. Your openness and support will go a long way for her mental wellbeing while growing up an in adulthood.

Good luck, feel free to ask anything we are a very open group.

[peaceandparty]

wow.....prince....ess
brilliant post
and brilliant example of taking a doctor and reassigning them
and seeing how they feel


its amazing to me to read so many stories here and elsewhere of people like ourselves who for one way or another feel part male part female

and then its great to read from you chuzzlewitz that you will tell your child from asap....depending on how your child will grasp these thoughts

its an absolute pleasure to read these writings from parents of a child
biological or not!

your child is lucky!
but i firmly believe we are living in an age of unprecedented acceptance levels
and tolerance of individuals and differences amongst human society is increasing
...its just that the general media would like us to believe differently

surgery on an unconsenting child is immoral in my opinion
i was born with xxy chromosomes
no vagina....just a penis and small testes
i am infertile....which is one of the things that makes me feel inferior from most other human beings
also...allow me to waffle here...lol
i would love to one day go to space and see the earth from an astronauts point of view...but they would not accept me because firstly-i cant reproduce...and secondly i am hormonally imbalanced

may i ask the others here:are you hormonally imbalanced?

anyway...i think the majority of peoples in the world are aware of the changes in humans....maybe we have always had turners and klinefelters syndrome throughout the generations but we never knew
but at the end of the day.........once we bore through the hard resistance from professionals and doctors and that kind of people.......we are looking at a much brighter picture for all of us and especially for the real men and women in the world---because they will slowly start to realise ,when they were once scared to show their true feelings which,sometimes, immediately put them in a category of "gay" or "weird" or "freak"....that it is completely acceptable in this day and age to have a stereotype that crosses both traditional borders of just male character and female character

i am just me too...

and its great to read someone else writing that too!

thank you all for this wonderful thread

[Dianne]

..... informed by the doctors that a decision (any decision) had to be made and quick.

That is pretty common and that is what ISNA is trying to stop.

Have you all ever known anyone at all who was happy they had the surgery?

The most recent statistics I heard (which were a decade or two old) said that 40% of "assignment" surgeries have an "adequate" outcome. I don't remember the name of the survey but it followed more people over a longer time period than Money's survey. So, logically, there must be happy people out there but of course those who are UNhappy tend to be the most vocal.

.... may i ask the others here:are you hormonally imbalanced?

Yes. Through puberty, I had low levels of estrogen and testosterone (both lower than normal for either sex). Following corrective surgery my hormones levels dropped even further and years on estrogen pills didn't create an adequate level of estrogen. About 3 years ago I was referred to an endocrinologist who knew what she was doing and she immediately put me on the patch and ordered a bone scan. As a result of a lifetime of low hormone levels, I have some bone density loss and will be staying on the patch for the rest of my life to prevent further deterioration. Proper medical care from a doctor who KNOWS what they are doing is critical for us!

[Kailana]

Yes in a way, I have read posts in other support groups, depending on the condition, and the amount of corrective surgery, there are some, who are or find some form of happiness, with the choices made for them. From what I remember, There were several who were glad they didn't have to go through there teen years hiding what they would of had. There words, pretty much stated, that they had issues just like everyone else, and they werent happy that surgery had been done, but, they also thought it was easier for them as teens, to not have to worry, hide, be ashamed, of abnormal sized/shaped genitalia. They also saw themselves as women, regardless of the condition or cause. I guess I just wanted to say, that there are some who are happy as you put it. The assignment in there mind made sense to them, they had acceptance, love, werent ashamed or worried about occasionally expressing themselves differently from time to time. They found there own acceptance of what was done and were fairly ok with it. i do hope that helps. Really not everyone is as angry as I or some of the others are. There are also many who still have no idea that they had infantile surgery to assign them as there genetic opposites who are happy now. I do fear for them though when they do find out. There are some very emotionally draining thoughts that accompany the discovery of finding out oneself is intersexed. I really think supportive family, relatives and friends help people get through those times.

I also think it was easier for them, because they knew early, there parents were open with them. From my few years of reading and posting and sharing my thoughts, i really think the people who knew for most of there lives what was done, had more acceptance from family members. For those of us, whose medical histories were hidden, we have the worst time, with acceptance for what we are, we are forced into roles that really dont suit us, we are criticised when we behave outside our assigned gender, we are not tolerated for being who we were meant to be. Perhaps that has alot to do with how I and others view Doctors and their opinions on what they have done to us in such poor contempt. Not being able to express oneself, not being able to share with others how you feel, how you think, how you love, who you love, because of a choice someone else made, is not an easy thing to live with. Too constantly feel ashamed of who we are, feeling freakish or wierd or well just plain old different then what people expect, well is not easy to live with. Life can be so much easier, nicer, friendlier when everyone in the world understands we are all unique individuals, we are all different for many different reasons, we are not suppose to be all alike, we were never meant to be clones of one another. Trying to force a gender onto someone is not a very nice thing to do. Better to just wait and see, and let that person choose for himself, herself what is in there best interest. Waiting really does solve alot of potential problems. But, as we all know, most doctors still pressure parents to choose.

I do believe peaceandparty mentioned the world not being ready. Well, in my opinion the world has always been ready, just there are some who don't accept there being people who are different. Its not the majority of the world, its actually a minority of the world that is stuck on the belief there are only male and female. Of that minority, it's the Religous right wing that says there are only men and women. As I was raised Catholic, I did have ample time to read the Bible. Mathew 19,12 is a pretty good resource for any Christian to read, there have always been at least from the perspective of the Bible(there words)

"For there are eunuchs who were born thus from their mothers womb, and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunichs for the kingdoms of heavens sake. He who is able to accept it, let him accept it"

Now then this does concern celibacy, but what i happen to like about it is that it does prove there have always been children born this way. While our rather ignorant, ancestors haha, may not have realised that some of these men were or could have been woman, CAH comes into mind often for me. There have always been children, human beings who were born Intersexed. I tend to think that the moral right wing, only accepts the part about there "being eunuchs who were made eunichs by men", they don't seem to accept or understand that there have always been those who chose to make themselves eunuch for there own beliefs. Also I believe had the medical technology existed 2000 years ago that many who made themselves eunuch back then would of done so to assign themselves as woman. I wrote this paragraph only to provide a source for the Christian community. Why, well because i am a bible thumper too. I happen to like the Bible mostly for one reason and one reason only. It provides me with acceptance, God knows me, loves me, cares for me, and I in return Cherish God as my savior. That is what i cherish, from my knowledge of Christianity(Catholocism) although i actually consider myself nondenominational Christian. I happen to not think to highly of the Catholic Church and there rightwing extremist Views. The Bible, regardless of Domination, is meant for one thing, to show the world that we are each suppose to love one another, care for one another, and respect one another. And guess what, nearly every other religion says pretty much the same thing. It's usually the right wing extremists in each faith, that exposes hatred and bigotry to other human beings. But you will never ever catch any of them actually admitting it. This paragraph is also written in response to the mention of the bible belt. People who preach about the bible should really pick it up some time and actually read it. There is more advice written there about accepting those who believe less then, more then, or just plain differently then they themselves do.

Well that was alot longer then I really had planned for as a response to anyone who knows if anyone is happy. But I hope someone does find some guidance in my words. And as a closing remark, i just want to say, sometimes I am a very happy person, not being one who is particularly happy about being assigned male, doesnt make me anyless human then anyone else. It is just one more little piece of me, that has some resolving to accomplish. Eventually I will be alot happier then I have been.

Best wishes everyone.

[Dianne]

I happened to stumble upon a well-written article on intersexed infants:

http://www.fathermag.com/206/intersex/

[peaceandparty]

a quick post

great posts

kailana...if i ever did say that the world isnt ready...it was taken wrong or else i wrote it wrong
i think the world and all it speople will never feel as if its the right time to do anything
and that sentence is just off the top of my head too...basically i think:the time is now

kailana....i am also happy to have you making my life happier knowing that you are in the world and are a similar carer and nice person to me......however just on the bible note and all your thoughts and facts on the religious end of things and intersex always being a part of life since the dawn of time....we will never really be able to prove all those facts....but just as it is with intersex --its also difficult to prove that we feel intersex or simply are intersex and maybe sometimes in life we wish we were normal...but what about if we already are normal.....so...kailana...i am with you......there are other books that i find a better read and a more understandable read than the holy bible...which incorporate so many of the bibles excellence and moral conducts,whatever-you know what i mean!and i like living a friendly helpful non sinning non abusive lifestyle with understanding and care for thy neighbour....i think all these sorts of things are majorly lacking in our moderrn "advanced" world of technology and also a severe lack of understanding in the basics of life
such as:
where does beef come from?
what is butter made out of?
how many different types of x are there in the world?
after male and female....what comes next!?

many people cant answer these simple basic questions
i am being extreme but in a nutshell-our "advanced society !"
is lacking in modern thinking...and modern changes for an evolving world
laws still out of date
and people at un-ease because they dont know what is going on

hopefully internet will continue to change that.....and keep bringing us forward