The FMA will be coming to a vote Wednesday---not a final vote but a vote by the senate to move the amendment proposal into cloture. Cloture means they will move the amendment immediately to vote without further discussion. It's often done to avoid a filibuster on the floor of the senate.

No matter your sexual orientation, this is an issue that can potentially affect your life. Not included in the legislation is how they intend to define male and female and for many this could be disastrous.

PLEASE take a moment now to contact your senators and urge them to vote NO on this amendment.

For more information on how it can impact you, please see: http://www.bodieslikeours.org/marriage.html

Please take 5 minutes to write a note to your senators about this misguided social policy.

Betsy

__________________
Until you've lost your reputation, you never realize what a burden it was or what freedom really is. --Margaret Mitchell

Dear Betsy, ( While this is a long post, I hope people will take the time to read it, I tried to be descriptive and very accurate in the details of this lunch and discussion on IS and Same Sex Marriage) Thanks!

Looks like we are a bit focused on the same thing. I had lunch with the Republican Party Runner for NC Senate yesterday and wanted to inform you of what took place.

Need I say that the Republican Party in the South is more than conservative, I would call it twisted at best. But I went and had lunch with the idea of throwing some real direct questions out to Mr. Brown. So here is how that meeting went...

One person asked him right away "why should we vote for you?".

His response was " Well let me tell you, I was born and raised in Wallace, worked the tobacco fields as a teenager, my family is from farm country,....." This is were I interrupted him...who cares if he worked tobacco fields etc.

" What is it that you stand for??"

" Well the first thing I want to do is bring back our moral values, put a stop to taking the word "God" out of the pledge in schools, vote against same sex marriage that the homosexuals are after".

So I asked him, " So you think that Gay people should not have the right to marry if they want? They should be opressed by others religious beliefs?"

He states " I cannot accept gays marrying, it just is not right" he went on to say that he did support gay couples having a legal union.

So I responded, " Did we not already try separate but equal in our history before, and it failed in regard to education and race issues not so long ago?". He did not really respond to that.

So then I asked him strait up with three other people listening to this discussion.

"Tell me how it is that you are going to decide what sex is?"

another person made the remark, "now you sound like Clinton".
Ok I got the humor in that joke, but I firmly stood my ground on this question with him and said...

" There are babies born everyday that doctors are not sure what sex to assign it, and they guess at best, surgically even alter them, but if they assign incorrectly, or they do not have surgery, which sex is it that they are suppose to fit into, who gets to decide that? In 13 states they do not allow sex labels on birth certificates to be changed for ANY reason...so these people...who do they get to marry??? How do you plan on sorting this out"

He simply stated, " That is a separate issue, and there are not that many of them anyway, that is rare".

I stated, "Not it is not rare, statistics show that it is as many as 1 in 500 births"

He acted like that was not a big number, and I looked at him and stated, you need to check the numbers, that is a LOT.

I dropped the topic for a bit at this point. But when we were eating and the discussion turned to Legalizing Gambling in the state, he is a supporter of this. He stated " I do not believe that the government has the right to legislate how people spend their money".

So I looked at him and stated " You said you dont believe that the government should legislate how somone spends their money??" I acted suprised when stating this.... He said "well no I don't"

So I replied " So the government should not tell people how to spend their money....but they can tell you who you should be able to have a relationship with?"

He looked stunned, and stated " You have a point".

Then he went on back and said " I believe if gay people want to live together they have the right to, and that is what a legal union will give them, but I do not believe that we should allow them into marriages, I just cannot accept that"

So I stated to him " There is a law on the books that all people in NC know should be taken off, old law states that a husband has the legal right on Sundays to take his wife to the court house steps and beat her, and we know that this law is old and really crazy, but in the time it made sense to someone, the problem with your conservative view on what morals are suppose to be, and trying to continue to press forward with these laws and actions is that it is not going to fly. What you are trying to do is crazy and will be seen sooner or later, most likely sooner, as being just that, really out there. The problem in NC is they are behind their times, and people have been oppressed too long and have had it, so when you are busy trying to put this restriction of human rights into place, think about the fact that it is going to look really stupid later" He nodded his head yes.

He gets it on the tip of his brain. As wierd as it may seem, I actually liked the guy. Not what he stands for, but because he came across to me as having the potential to be educated. It will take overcoming some of what has been ingrained in him, but I have always been very successful as educating people from his small town background.

While I am not in the bay area right now, one of my goals sense being here has been to indent a part of the country that has been a hard to reach population. You have to approach from the inside, and it can and will be effective. It takes time, but I continue to plant seeds, and with what you posted I wanted to let you know about this seed, and it needs some water.

I do not do much traditionally at all. So I want to sit down with him again, and I will have access to doing so, but I do not want to lobby him, or come at him in a way that we see going on all the time in politics. I want to educate him, but do so more on the human to human level. He lives nearby a good friend of my wifes and a good friend of mine has a son who dates his daughter. I will be approaching him again, so any ideas that you have, or info you would like shared please, let me hear from you. This goes from anyone that has anything that they would like to say, publications that I could have him read etc. Let me hand deliver him more information.

Ok this post is getting real long...but one big thing we need to have him look at and I am working on it (was already anyway) is the legal twists of the legal system with Same Sex Marriages. He needs first to see that this is indeed the SAME issue, not a separate issue. Help me out people with any arguments you would like me to make.

FMA---today's funniest quote
From a Newsday story posted within the hour:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I would argue that the future of our country hangs in the balance because the future of marriage hangs in the balance," said Sen. Rick Santorum, R-Pa. ".....Isn't that the ultimate homeland security, standing up and defending marriage?"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


See? It's not them dastardly terrorists, it's the queer people who want to get married that threaten the "homeland". Maybe we should postpone election until we decide what to do about them

I think it's great that the attempt to put the measure to cloture (cut off debate and thus any filibustering) in an attempt to force a vote appears to make the measure DOA.

Taylor, I'll reply more fully later today to your most excellent post and lunch conversation.

Betsy

__________________
Until you've lost your reputation, you never realize what a burden it was or what freedom really is. --Margaret Mitchell

This little gem comes from Puff Daschle's Senatorial opponent, John Thune:So tell me Mr Thune, how do any of the Massachusetts married same-sex couples affect your marriage (or anyone else's) in any way?

Please be specific.

__________________
Cheers,
Meresa

There will be no second-class citizens in this society.
-- Chuck Panozzo

The FMA failed to come to a vote today in the Senate by a vote of 50 against, 48 for. The vote was to send the item to cloture---that is end discussion and move it immediately to a floor vote. Effectively, it rendered the item DOA because it also killed the possibility of it moving forward.

The house may bring their version up in the fall, but it is likely it will fail there as well.

Betsy

__________________
Until you've lost your reputation, you never realize what a burden it was or what freedom really is. --Margaret Mitchell

Now this could not have anything to do with an election year, and people scared that the times have changed and they are not so sure of themselves anymore could it ? LOL

Peace
Taylor

I'm completely misunderstanding...

I thought that some states (not only in the US, but the ACT in Australia) have a law that says anyone born with an IS condition couldn't be legally defined as exclusively male or female.

how does it affect those born with an IS condition?
Ugh the whole philisophics of it all tick me off...

I hate how the Australian gov, is trying to ban same-sex marriages, even if u were married overseas?
So... Who do I marry then? I'm XY, raised a girl... my head hurts

Australia needs a whole new set of politicians all round...

Shodan,

In the US there are 13 states that have a law that forbids the changing of a birth certificate. In some of the remaining states you can alter the certificate but it shows the original item as altered in various ways depending on the state which it was done in.

Once a "sex" is placed on your birth certificate in the US if you were born in the wrong state you are stuck regardless of the purpose, with the original label. And on top of all of that in the end your death certificate MUST match your birth certificate.

This only goes to show the power behind the division of the sexes and how embedded in our social structures it is.

Remember we are asking people of authority to admit that they are mistaken or flat out wrong.

In an ideal world we could tare down the entire social structure that created this mess, but in reality all we can do is educate and chip away at it.

Taylor

__________________
Andy Dufresne (from the movie Shawshank Redemption): "It's my life. Don't you understand? IT'S MY LIFE!'