Everyday Gender

[Sunshine1]

It really is something how much gender is refered to during any given day.

From day to day travels there is always a gender reference. "Thank you Miss " etc and day after day when you are just refered in the female gender it is imprinted until you ......maybe? from these conditions? one takes a step back and observes this.

What if I'm not into gender so much but to live in this society .....just to use a public restroom or to be addressed by a service workers, strangers etc one plays this game as to explain ....noo nooo not into gender to everyone .....really no time when you are delivering products or on the phone.
I started thinking about this stuff way back in a job when I had really short hair (not washed)and was wearing a baseball type cap, a gray t-shirt (dirty w/ grease- not washed ) ripped jeans (dirty with grease/dirt-not washed in a week) and muddy combat boots. This guy that I was delivering products to signed the invoice.

I came back in to buy something to drink and the guy goes you're pretty with this biggest smile. i was defeated becuase I was feeling so non gendered and what a relief but that guy brought back reality of society.

Another job that I have wearing a uniform and a gunbelt is the same thing "Ms, that hat brings out your eyes" this from a man in a car with a bunch of other ones. I don't acknowledge that and just got the info that I needed. Or when I hear "you're a nice lady" ....blah blah but it's nothing androgenious or intersex and I tried to bring up those to nurses that replied you don't look intersex .....blah, blah "stronge lady picking up those parts" ..blah blah but the thing is that I'll do the same thing and call because I'll catch myself doing the same thing and call people "Sir" or "here you go Guy "

Has anyone looked at bathrooms and bounced off the portion in the middle looking for one that isn't about gender? there can't be one because the normals would wreck it.

When I talk like this, My Mom (who adopted me) says that I need to live in the woods and all I ever wanted was for you to be normal.

Just sign me female with an adrenal gland condition.

[Sunshine1]

Should of put was feeling so non gendered and happy

Thank you so much for sharing your story with us Sunhine1. I totally agree and can feel for you about the non-gender situations. Hope everthing goes well for you. God Bless!

[Dianne]

Thanks Sunshine - that was an entertaining read

I am well aware of the prevalence of "gendering". Having grown up as a supposed-to-be-boy and totally girly, it used to drive me nuts and was SO depressing I didn't WANT to be neutral, I couldn't even pretend to be male - I didn't "pass" even when I was trying. I am glad that was all over with decades ago. I like being girly

[RW]

Sunshine, I keep meaning to write something about 'normals' ... several other people have used the word recently too.... but I'm not sure I can get the words right - so would it be possible for me to try and for you (and everyone else) to let me know if I get it right or wrong... I'll put these thoughts down here for them to be shot at or supported as you feel is right:

The thing is, the idea of 'the normals' is incredibly powerful, and I'm sure captures the daily experience of many people pretty well. But I'm not sure it's helpful... I kind of feel that there's a risk that everyone forgets that there is no such thing as 'a normal'.

I think I hear people shouting already, but please hold off until I say a bit more (then feel free!).

I've known many people/groups who are hurt because they see themselves as different (or feel they are perceived as different). And the thing is these people are in the majority! The differences that people experience - the reasons for their exclusion or feelings of exclusion vary dramatically, but many many people experience them. Person 1 has a different colour skin from most of those around them, person 2 spends 24hours a day caring for his son who has dementia, person 3 has no arms and legs, person 4 spends day in day out thinking about what food to eat "so I don't get fat", person 5 spends 4 months a year in psychiatric care, person 6 hears voices in her head but lives an ordinary life, person 7 doesn't fit into any identifiable 'ethnic group', person 8 will have a heart attack and die at 30, person 9 already has breast cancer, person 10 is regularly beaten up by his wife, person 11 lost her children to a mystery illness, person 12 is described by his parents as "retarded" and his doctor as "a Down's syndrome", and so on.

Of course, if we pick any one 'label' then most people don't fit that category. Most people aren't 'victims of domestic violence'. Most people don't die of cancer before the age of 30. Most people have a full set of limbs. Most people easily fit into one gender box. But there are more than enough labels to go around. In other words very few people get to escape all the available categories. Very few people are 'normal' or have a 'normal' life.

What I think I see is that some people are consumed by thinking 'why me' in regard to their particular experience, wanting to be 'normal', and believing that they are one of the unlucky ones (assuming that everyone else has an ordinary life) - whereas other people somehow learn to be thankful just for being alive.

Of course none of this takes away the pain of being treated badly, the lack of equality, or the physical pain that some people experience. I understand that 'the normals' captures something of the experience of being treated as different, something of the attitude of people who haven't yet noticed that they are living a charmed life, not yet old, not yet mentally ill, not yet disabled, not yet having tragedy in their life....

But I do think its important to remind everyone over and over that these people are in the minority (even if they have lots of power and have the world set up mainly for them).

When we remind everyone of this it makes 'minority rights' (substitute whatever phrase seems appropriate here) suddenly seem much more achievable. We realise that what we are asking for is important to most people in the world, not actually a minority.

OK so tell me - am I saying something helpful, or unhelpful here?

Oh, and by the way, I found your post seriously thought provoking. Thank you. It reminded me of an interesting article by someone describing the daily reminders that they didn't belong because of the colour of their skin - finding that everywhere they went the background images, messages, music, stories, language etc etc told them that they weren't part of 'we' and 'us' but rather part of 'you' and 'they'. An experience perhaps with similarities to the image you present of bouncing off the portion in the middle of two bathrooms.

[apple]

Originally Posted by RW

OK so tell me - am I saying something helpful, or unhelpful here?

RW I believe that was absolutely beautiful.

What you wrote is something that happy people understand, and unhappy people either cannot or will not, regardless of their situation.

Thank you.

[Dianne]

Thank you RW - that was very thought-provoking.

Personally, when I rant about "normals" it normally has to do with physical expectations.

I am functionally female and predominantly straight (though not exclusively). When I was young and attractive, intimate relationships were easy to come by but now that I am getting older (5 I find that straight men flip out about my unusual childhood and early medical condition. Nothing kills a relationship faster than not being physically normal! The only others I know who find intimacy so hard to come by are TS and those with physical paralysis. At least if one is a member of a "large" minority, there are romantic prospects within the minority. When one is part of a small minority, those prospects are few and far between.

[apple]

[Sunshine1]

Originally Posted by RW

Sunshine, I keep meaning to write something about 'normals' ... several other people have used the word recently too.... but I'm not sure I can get the words right - so would it be possible for me to try and for you (and everyone else) to let me know if I get it right or wrong... I'll put these thoughts down here for them to be shot at or supported as you feel is right:

The thing is, the idea of 'the normals' is incredibly powerful, and I'm sure captures the daily experience of many people pretty well. But I'm not sure it's helpful... I kind of feel that there's a risk that everyone forgets that there is no such thing as 'a normal'.

I think I hear people shouting already, but please hold off until I say a bit more (then feel free!).

I've known many people/groups who are hurt because they see themselves as different (or feel they are perceived as different). And the thing is these people are in the majority! The differences that people experience - the reasons for their exclusion or feelings of exclusion vary dramatically, but many many people experience them. Person 1 has a different colour skin from most of those around them, person 2 spends 24hours a day caring for his son who has dementia, person 3 has no arms and legs, person 4 spends day in day out thinking about what food to eat "so I don't get fat", person 5 spends 4 months a year in psychiatric care, person 6 hears voices in her head but lives an ordinary life, person 7 doesn't fit into any identifiable 'ethnic group', person 8 will have a heart attack and die at 30, person 9 already has breast cancer, person 10 is regularly beaten up by his wife, person 11 lost her children to a mystery illness, person 12 is described by his parents as "retarded" and his doctor as "a Down's syndrome", and so on.

Of course, if we pick any one 'label' then most people don't fit that category. Most people aren't 'victims of domestic violence'. Most people don't die of cancer before the age of 30. Most people have a full set of limbs. Most people easily fit into one gender box. But there are more than enough labels to go around. In other words very few people get to escape all the available categories. Very few people are 'normal' or have a 'normal' life.

What I think I see is that some people are consumed by thinking 'why me' in regard to their particular experience, wanting to be 'normal', and believing that they are one of the unlucky ones (assuming that everyone else has an ordinary life) - whereas other people somehow learn to be thankful just for being alive.

Of course none of this takes away the pain of being treated badly, the lack of equality, or the physical pain that some people experience. I understand that 'the normals' captures something of the experience of being treated as different, something of the attitude of people who haven't yet noticed that they are living a charmed life, not yet old, not yet mentally ill, not yet disabled, not yet having tragedy in their life....

But I do think its important to remind everyone over and over that these people are in the minority (even if they have lots of power and have the world set up mainly for them).

When we remind everyone of this it makes 'minority rights' (substitute whatever phrase seems appropriate here) suddenly seem much more achievable. We realise that what we are asking for is important to most people in the world, not actually a minority.

OK so tell me - am I saying something helpful, or unhelpful here?

Oh, and by the way, I found your post seriously thought provoking. Thank you. It reminded me of an interesting article by someone describing the daily reminders that they didn't belong because of the colour of their skin - finding that everywhere they went the background images, messages, music, stories, language etc etc told them that they weren't part of 'we' and 'us' but rather part of 'you' and 'they'. An experience perhaps with similarities to the image you present of bouncing off the portion in the middle of two bathrooms.

I read where you are from http://www.isja.org.uk/ and everything you wrote has nothing to do with what I meant as someone with CAH. My post was about society runs on gender and it's hard when one doesn't fit by condition, other things and life is hard when you don't try and fit but you lose your soul if you make this effort- not feeling like you fit in from the inside or feeling like hell because society has shoved you to fit in ...Fixed you and viewed you with your pants pulled down that they did a good job. I will not post anymore as what I write my feeling about CAH... isn't welcomed.I WROTE What IT FEELS TO HAVE THIS MEDICAL CONDITION for me and I also have/had other medical conditions like cancer. I feel you assumed and added things have nothing to do with my post.