HI all,

Seems some are finally hearing the message

Genetically and physically male babies born with a rare condition called "micropenis" are happier when raised as boys, according to research.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/1778053.stm



DaleLynn Sims
A Kindred Spirit
http://www.kindredspiritlakeside.homestead.com
http://www.bodieslikeours.org

"Happy are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the children of God" (Matthew 5:9).

Peace, Salam, Shalom, Mír, Ashtee, Heiwa, Damai, Saanti, Pokój, La Paix, Der Frieden, Barish, Amaní, La Paz, Aman, Pyong'hwa, Hedd, K'é, Fred, Búdech, Shanti, Vrede: In any language, the appeal of peace is well-nigh universal.

quote:

However, 50% of men, some of whom had achieved normal penis length with the help of testosterone replacement, said they were satisfied with their genitalia.

Of the 12 men who responded, 10 reported a male heterosexual orientation, six were married and 11 said they were satisfied with their sex of rearing.

my situation: Since it seems I am of the other 50% having felt uncomforable with my "normalized" genitalia, , and of the 2nd paragraph: representative of the 1 out of 12 , I would have, in retrospect, been better off as having the vaginoplasty. However, I was born "at home" (instead of in hospital) in post-war Germany and do not even have a real birth certificate, meaning, perhaps, that I probably was "spared" by having the corrective surgery because my then finanacially poor parents had no medical resources access. They , of course, operated on me as soon as I came to US (with "new father" and long absent mother) for meatal( pee-hole) closure and overgrowth of foreskin, and shortly thereafter...male hormones. Like in politics: You cannot please all of the people all of the time; but those not pleased with the "outcome) , like me.....well, what can be said, except that ALL of those types of surgeries/medical (psychological?) treatment regimens were based on restoration of adequate sexual function and maintenance of gender normalcy, which admittedly, works for the majority... the "leftovers ", especially those with co-existent gender dysphoria get left "out in the cold"....presenting oneself to medical authorities later on in life will not and does not justify "restoration" to sex which matches the gender since it is not in keeping with "standard and accepted" medical practice and treatment protocol. The bottom line: micropenis (and associated endocrinological/genetic conditions with coexistent gender identity opposite that of assigned sex of male must be even rarer since focus is/was placed upon the "majority" of cases which were of "favorable outcome" . All this DOES NOT mean I am for vaginoplasty in babies with micropenis....what I mean to say is that VERY LITTLE focus is given to people LIKE ME, as I am presently seen by my medical authorities as a psychosexually, physically abnormally developed "normal" male who "wants to be" female ", despite former medical treatment toward, parental indoctrination into, and "lifestyle" into :Male.......all meaning that to be transgendered (or inter-gendered, as I see it) is to be screwed in this life, especially if after 4-5 decades of living like that, one realizes that all of the former life was a mistake, a construct of existence, a confused and superficial attempt to act the part (normalize) for survival's sake and acceptance by one's environment...... and the reality of one's actual (gender) identity is sparingly acknowledged by most of the medical/psychological and communal society, indeed even by the individual him/herself who suffers from this "rare anomaly" ( transgenderism/transsexuality) and stems from confusion of self, denial, fear of rejection/ostracization and self-loathing....often related to anxiety of the possibility of and/ or experience of physical/psychological/sexual abuse as a child and/or young adult.

So what is the real answer in all of this??....the following "treatment regimen advocacy" is perhaps the most realistic and humane.... AND is in the child's best interests, not others:

Quote taken from article: Reiner, To Be Male or Female--That is the Question, 151 Archives: Pediatric Adolescence. Med. 225 (1997):

"In the end it is only the children themselves who can and must identify who and what they are. It for us as clinicians and researchers to listen and to learn.
Clinical decisions must ultimately be based not on anatomical predictions, nor on the 'correctness' of sexual function, for this is neither a question of morality nor of social consequence, but on that path most appropriate to the likliest psychosexual development pattern of the child. In other words, the organ that appears to be critical to psychosexual development and adaption is not the external genitalia, but the brain."

Amen, Herr Doktor Reiner!.
.
.perhaps , this time, the parents may listen and learn as well.........there is more to being human than just "what's between the legs!"

Frau Doktor Gold

Another study by Reiner et. al. just released this week in NEJM, shows similar outcomes for boys born with cloacal extrophy:

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiheral...lth/7766718.htm

Betsy

__________________
Until you've lost your reputation, you never realize what a burden it was or what freedom really is. --Margaret Mitchell

quotes from article:

The finding, reported in the current issue of the New England Journal of Medicine, suggests there is an intrinsic, biologically determined feeling of sexual identity that is hard to override through rearing, experts said.

However, Berenbaum and other experts noted that five children appeared happy living as girls, implying that nurture can win out.

Let the "Game" begin:

The "experts" in the 2nd quoted paragraph are apparently unaware of the possibility of the first paragraph's indications...and if nurture can "win out" (gender identity determination is NOT a football game, people!) then is 5 out 12 indicative of a favorable success ratio for the Nurture Team!??...if graded then 5/12= 41.7%= an F.

It is the CHILD who determines his/her identity, nurture may influence and be successful , but only if it is in harmony with the child's inner core make-up...it may harm and lead to psychological distress if it is in discord with the child.

The same may be said for the Nature Team...the child may be wholly male or female and not IS...BUT...what about the brain studies of the Sexually Dimorphic Nucleus and Pre-optic Chiasma, as well of the microscopic BSTc regions in some.... although I for one will admit this may not be the case in all gender variant persons, it seems the definitive cause in some. IS IT at all possible that such brain variations occur in IS children??....after all intersexed in the body does NOT exclude intersexed in the brain.....in either case (IS or not) the body sex may be out of synch with the inner core of the child.....but then again, it IS NOT Nature that has a problem with that ,but Society, which imposes itself upon the child to correct him/her to "normalcy". (which I don't know if one could call it in all cases "loving" nurture, since it may be more like forcible imposition-type "nurture" as in surgery, hormones, or indoctrination. ...both instances lead to psychological turmoil or confusion within some children.

Some individuals who given vaginoplasty ( micropenis or agenesis of penis) may"assimilate" quite well, but how do they really feel deep down inside?? If not "complying" with treatment objective or nurture, the person should be allowed to express the "inter-gendered" self and not be construed as dreadfully homosexual, and even given the opportunity to transition back to male, if they so wish, without it being perceived as a psychological "disorder"/paraphilia.

And lastly; all of the above applies just as well to females born with "defects"
they determine the outcome of their lives,

It's always the children who suffer the most, whether IS, TS or both. I support Dr. Reiner's view...for once let's learn something from the children...with an open mind listen to their feelings, their hearts... and not just assess symptoms, genotype, phenotype, and behavioral status: are they "adjusting" with treatment objectives, if not, the answer lies with the child, not the medical or parental team.( i.e. as in MORE testosterone or "counseling")....in which case the med/parent team may need to adjust themselves to allow expression of child's sense of self
.......Rah, Rah, Rah for the Children Team. Let's give them a chance to play the "Game"...on their turf!!

Dana

I dislike hormon-replacement for teens as much as surgery on unconsenting children. I cannot imagine myself making such a decision at age 12, it's confusing enough just being 12 yo.
There are plenty of reports, that estrogen and testosteron replacement can cause distress and depression and in cases of delayed puberty or hypogonadism it should be save anyway to wait until age 16.

Sofie

If you are interested in reading the entire study, it is now available on line through Bodies (thanks to Bill Reiner and the NEJM which quickly gave permissions)

http://www.bodieslikeours.org/resea...calresearch.htm

Betsy

__________________
Until you've lost your reputation, you never realize what a burden it was or what freedom really is. --Margaret Mitchell

This article goes further into re-consideration of sex assignment of infants; includes a few paragraphs of ISNA recommendations. Also former "patient" assessment and rejection of a third sex/gender category.

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/Livi...s_040122-1.html

I found this excerpt mentioning parents' "reaction" ( diaper change) to their intersex baby to be exceptionally ignorant and selfish:

But many physicians believe it would be more harmful to wait, and worry about the impact of growing up intersex in a world unprepared to deal with such variety. "I've had parents say, 'I can't stand changing the diaper,' " Peters says.