intersex photos

[Glenn]

Hi,
Here are a few good photos of "an Intersex individual with predominately female characteristics."

http://www.hermanshermit.com/hermp.html

Thought it might be nice to have another example of what "ambiguous genitalia" may mean. I'm going to write to her and suggest she provide a link to bodieslikeours, in addition to the ISNA and other resources.

Glenn

[Betsy]

I was in angst for a bit after looking at the link Glenn posted. While I am not keen on sex-oriented sites and truly expected one of the fake herm sites/pictures when I first saw the link and the name of the site, once I opened it became clear it was real.

It saddens me that someone feels the need to make a spectacle of herself for the purpose of "enlightenment". It looked like a circus act and reminded me that not too long ago, intersex people used to end up in circus freakshows because of their differences.

The author, unfortunately, also need somes educating as s/he is obviously clueless about a clitoris, as she called the woman's enlarged clitoris a "penis" They have also referred to us as pseudo-herms long after 1947.

She also claimed that most herms end up male, or should:

The general rule is to class the pseudohermaphrodite as a male, until/unless unmistakable evidence of the oppostie sex appears.

That is also a misinformed statement...unfortunately so. The general rule should be to just let each child grow up unmutilated and unaltered to find his/her/own identity (and hopefully not ending up as a webpage picture).

Glenn, rather than suggesting a link, perhaps you would be better to educate the site owner.

Best,

Betsy

[Glenn]

Thanks for the corrections, Betsy. I'll pass them on to the author.

I knew the site would be controversial because of its circus-like appearance (and FWIW, the rest of the site is that way too). But I couldn't help get the impression that the author is sincere in wanting to demystify her intersexuality. Can someone graphically express "I'm-different-and-that's-cool" without it coming across as "look-at-me-I'm-a-circus-freak?"

After all, 99.9% of the "hermaphrodites" on the internet are, as you probably feared this site was, pre-op M2F transsexuals. It's nice to see another attempt to provide some real information on intersexuality, even if somewhat misinformed.

BTW I'm having trouble with pronouns. I used female forms for the author because she identified herself as "predominantly female." But what is more generally the proper protocol? Ask which pronouns they prefer? Assume neutral "s/he" forms?

Glenn

[Hermit]

Thanks for posting the link and your e-mails.

However, after reading Besty's response I felt that I should reply in kind. First, I built the "Sextopia" site several years ago, and really have not updated the content on the "Hermaphrodite" page since then.

At the time that page was published the content came largely from material published on other sites that dealt with Intersex issues. The reference to the clitoris as a "penis" came directly from the original text that accompanied the photos, as well as direct quotes from a 1947 medical book discribing the condition. I left the references to the clitoris as a "non-functioning penis" in there deliberately, as that was the way it was originally published. However the point is well taken and I probably should edit some of the text to relect a more accurate perspective.....should anyone here have any suggestions please e-mail them to me.

My goal here as with the other content on "Sextopia" and the sexual discussion forum as well was to provide general information on a wide range of sexual issues - Intersex issues certainly needed to be covered here.

The text that accompanies the photos was based on the prevailing attitudes and information available in '98 when the page was written. Any misinformation was unintended, but it also why I included the link to ISNA. As for the photos, in my research I found many pics of supposed "hermaphrodites," but as was suggested here most appeared to pre-operative transexuals, or retouched images. These pics appeared to be genuine, and displayed typical Intersex characteristics in a female - as I understand them to be.

I hope I'm not getting myself in too deep here...I have no personal experiences with Intersex issues, but I am very supportive of no invasive, or sex assignment surgery on infants with ambiguous sexuality.

As for the "circus-like" appearance of the pages on the site, the design goal was to have simple, color-full pages with a common theme - in appearance and content. Also, I wanted the pages to load quickly, consume minimal bandwidth, yet be attractive enough to encourage visitors to linger and read a bit.

Also, for the record I am a "he" not a "she", and yes I do know the difference between a clitoris and a penis - LOL!!

Have a good day!

Hermit

[Betsy]

Thanks for clarifying Hermit...and thank you not for using fake pictures. As you said and Glenn also mentioned, there is a ton of photos on the net that claim to be be herms but are not. As much as I find the use of such pictures to be troublesome, if you need help rewriting, I can help or you can probably figure it out by reading some of the material here on this site and ISNA.

Glenn...I used s/he because I was unclear of the site owner's gender. It's just a way to cut clutter when I write. As far as proper protocol in referring to gender variant people, I find it is most efficient to simply ask. I often speak at gender variant and trans conferences. After getting ripped once for using the "wrong" pronoun, I now just ask how someone would like to be addressed.

Best,

Betsy

It's nice to see one example of " Intersexed " genitals. With like anything else, each of us has genitals that look nothing like each other!

If this is any form of intersexed hypoplasia or transgendered. It doesn't matter, This person is pleasuring their uniqueness, the heck with convention. I'd take something like that over a clitoridectomy anyday.

looks like a happy person enjoying their Atypical genitals...good for them !!! I thought the web page was tasteful compared to other sites that have so called "normal" people on them doing all sorts of things.

Last week, I went down to the Islands and was sitting at resort bar getting drink on 1800's (tequila) and rum runners. I was sitting with a group of guys. My friend got up the go to the restroom. While he was away the other guys started talking about how weird it would be to wake up with a woman with bigger feet then they did( they really were talking about the feet, strange stuff when people are drunk) the one guy was going his feet are size 13..... a woman with feet like that , then mine oh nooooo( hic-up). So, for the heck of it ...I blurted out ....Heeeeey....they are women that have huge clitoris too. The guys went what? I repeated huge clitorises ...super duper jumbo sized. They thought about it for a couple of seconds, then went yeah that makes sense. They giggled, snorted and smiled and said I bet some are bigger than so and so, He's about the size of a tic-tac (smile).

Here's to a different Lattitude (lol)

What people need to see is a well done clitorectomy, it looks like I was assulted with a butcher knife. oh....no, I'll stop I'm getting all wacked out on you people. I'm meeting that surgeon in August. I can't wait.

[C-R]

I don't understand why people feel the need to post pictures of Intersex genitals! Honestly I think it is in very poor taste to show these pictures, especially when they are pictures of someone doing things to themself or having someone else do it. Having pictures of IS genitals seems to be putting us on display even more as FREAKS, and NOT to satisfy someone's curiosity or educate others. These pictures put the focus back on our genitals and not on us as individuals! I think that written or verbal explainations for education are wonderful, and if really needed for some reason, a drawing of atypical genitals are satisfactory, but real pictures of a person's genitals are just simply poor taste and sad that someone feels they need to show off what they've got.

My experience in educating others has been if they have seen pictures of adult IS genitals, they become more forceful in their questions and want to know specifically what I've got and how it all works, some have even asked to see for themselves!

I believe 100% in educating others about Intersex conditions, and more importantly, our culture, but I think that these kind of pictures are totally unnecessary!!

That's my 2 cents.
CR

I was just wondering what you meant by our culture?

[Jamie]

I also think that the link was a good one, if not for the "masturbating" pic. I have examined these pics as a tool to help me solve a problem and I think it has definately helped. I posted in other areas seeking various bits of info about my own condition. See, I was assigned male (self diagnosis) based on the fact that I have scars that are in the right places for me to have this condition.

Along the underside of the penis, I have a scar runnning its entire length. Behind the scrotum, I have a scar that runs in line with the scar on the penis. This is certainly the right placement for an intersex surgery to have assigned male, detaching the "labia" to create a scrotum and freeing the "clitoris" and sealing it to create a penis. This is my best guess since I am unable to access any relevant medical records.

I do not see myself as male, so please help me find a psychologist/ or other dr that can help me. I live in South Dakota, so I need someone closer than say, California or Mass.